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[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Always fun to see people struggle with their cognitive dissonance, only to break through the tribal conditioning of the first instinct of fight or flight... only to accept they truly do want it, lol.

I think everyone and their mother who owns or planned to own a PS4 wants this. Folks that want a PS4 and are given an option of a better PS4 will always take the better PS4. The issue is about whether they can afford it this soon, and whether the upgrade is worth it, and if so will developers not push themselves to keep the standards in OG PS4 high as it currently is.

I want it. I'll sell my current PS4 and get it. $499 is atleast $100 higher than I expected. In fact, it hilariously was the price of PS3 at launch as well. You know, the price that everyone laughed at and made fun of. After taxes, it's going to be $750 in Canada. Now do I get this or the CAD $750 PSVR? I love Sony products, but not to the point of being broke and getting 3 jobs. That's just Ken Kutaragi level of BS. I can only get one now, and I'll have to wait and see to decide which one I want.

 

[Mushroom021]

You confuse me, lol.

Why? I'll be getting the console I want the games. I don't have to blindly agree with everything Sony does.

 

[Oxn]

Will it be better than my 4.4 OCed 3770K with a 780?

Will get the 1080 soon though.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think everyone and their mother who owns or planned to own a PS4 wants this. Folks that want a PS4 and are given an option of a better PS4 will always take the better PS4. The issue is about whether they can afford it this soon, and whether the upgrade is worth it, and if so will developers not push themselves to keep the standards in OG PS4 high as it currently is.

Developers will have probably over 50 million reasons, and tons of backlash (if they half ass it) as to why they are still vested in the PS4. I am sure Sony has a few 'ground rules' or 'recommendations' to them as well.

 

[Papacheeks]

You seem to forget that the big engines already scale rather well.
Yes witcher 3 and AC had problems but it was there first next gen game on a new engine but engines will get over time with or with PS4k .
UE4 and frostbite don't seem to have a problem .
I really don't see how it going cost so much more extra money if DICE say for eg .
On PS4K lets make SW BF 1080p and add some better AA and leave it at that .

Unreal Engine 4 doesn't have issues because that's what they fucking do. Their bread and butter is engines. Ubisoft, CD Project Red don't make engines to subsidize like DICE, Crytek, and Epic do.

A lot of big publishers just brute force production, and don't optimize because of their release schedules. WHich will continue to get worse once you add something else for them to go even bigger and brute force development with.

Developers will have probably over 50 million reasons, and tons of backlash (if they half ass it) as to why they are still vested in the PS4. I am sure Sony has a few 'ground rules' or 'recommendations' to them as well.

And that has not stopped a slew of third party titles from being half ass already. And to me will more than likely make it worse.

 

[SGRX]

I don't mind the concept of more frequent upgrades necessarily, but I don't feel like there is enough value in the platform to justify me spending $500 every 3 years, in addition to the yearly PS Plus fee, in order to be locked into Sony's ecosystem. I'm not sure the exclusives they've put out since the PS4's launch even justify the purchase price of the original system to me yet. It just makes me see the PC as a better value proposition relative to the competition.

$400 for the system initially, then $500 for the upgrade, $300 over that time for Plus assuming 3 year upgrades, compared to a $1000 gaming PC with a $300 GPU upgrade in the middle. The cost is basically a wash.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Why? I'll be getting the console I want the games. I don't have to blindly agree with everything Sony does.

Don't get all hyperbole on me. Nobody said anything about 'blindly following'...

But if you think this is a "bad idea", and have been feverishly against every little bit, then why would you buy it and be "a part of the problem" helping make it a success?

That is where I am confused.

And that has not stopped a slew of third party titles from being half ass already. And to me will more than likely make it worse.

So nothing changes.

Thanks for the discussion.

I do not believe it will get worse.

 

[GamerMax73]

Ubisoft has been outed by their own workers for going against what their teams were telling them. It sucks to know most of the guys working on the game, knew the engine was not even close to being ready for production.

If we don't voice it the higher ups who force these decisions on eh deve;s who can't do anything about it, will continue to push out un-optimized, unfinished games. When and early access game has been in early access in a unplayable state, are you not going to voice your opinion about it?

It's a language thing. Saying devs when we mean publishers doesn't seem quite fair on the people who do the hard work. Like I say, I've been vocal elsewhere on the carp Square Enid have pulled on the new Hitman, and Ubisoft definitely appear to be driven by release date regardless to whether the final product is actually ready.

But should the devs be blamed for poor optimisation when the fault lies elsewhere with the money men?

As in any industry there's good and there's bad. I just have a little more faith that if they wanted to target both platforms it doesn't have to be that difficult and the PS4 doesn't have to suffer.

Time will tell, as ever...

 

[CosmicQueso]

Let's be honest with ourselves, shall we? If DLC, Season Passes, project $10, broken games at launch, paying for online functionality, unsupported games, pricing of digital distribution, and all the other myriad number of things that people have rightfully complained about haven't already pushed people out of the console market, the release of a box that supports new displays certainly won't either.

I didn't say they would, and that doesn't mean the announcement won't piss some people off and push them away.

And the first video showcasing a new game upscaled to 4k on a flash 60" 4k display will pull them right back in.

 

[MK_768]

Oh wow, this is some serious anger here. Surely, there must be some kind of boycott we can lead! LET US JOIN HANDS AND FIGHT THIS INJUSTICE!



Oh. Well. Never mind, then. I guess

Glorious.

 

[Demanufacture]

Uncharted cutscenes were FMVs before. In U4 everything is rendered in realtime, both gameplay and cinematics without model switching between those modes.

Order 1886 had the same approach. Same models, all cutscenes in realtime, no visible transitions.

edit - just googled a bit, and I found this gem of a gif. Had to post it

Spoiler

PS4 is a beast

So if they can create games that look that good on PS4 what is the point of PS4.5 exactly? I guess just for VR..as we know 30fps and lower res's will not stand for VR

 

[Papacheeks]

Don't get all hyperbole on me. Nobody said anything about 'blindly following'...

But if you think this is a "bad idea", and have been feverishly against every little bit, then why would you buy it and be "a part of the problem" helping make it a success?

That is where I am confused.



So nothing changes.

Thanks for the discussion.

I do not believe it will get worse.

The change will be third party now have another configuration to use, and possibly change their engine for PS4K, which may or maynot sit well with PS4.

Only time will tell once this is released and game engines start getting designed to target PS4K SPECS.

Engines like Unreal, DICE, CRYTEK and the likes i'm not worried about development wise those are proven to be well optimized for the most part. It's internally made engines like Ubisoft's, Avanalche's, COD, and the likes that have me worried.

 

[Loris146]

So if they can create games that look that good on PS4 what is the point of PS4.5 exactly? I guess just for VR..as we know 30fps and lower res's will not stand for VR

Money from who want 4K or better graphic but at the same time don't want to build a PC.

 

[joecanada]

So if they can create games that look that good on PS4 what is the point of PS4.5 exactly? I guess just for VR..as we know 30fps and lower res's will not stand for VR

Well there probably won't be a point for everyone, I usually wait about 6 months to get a new console , and if it is mostly for 4k but doesn't run games better I may even wait longer. if its 499 then it will be some sort of premium model so not everyone could or should buy it.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Unreal Engine 4 doesn't have issues because that's what they fucking do? Their bread and butter is engines? Ubisoft, CD Project Red don't make engines to subsidize like DICE, Crytek, and Epic do.

A lot of big publishers just brute force production, and don't optimize because of their release schedules. WHich will continue to get worse once you add something else for them to go even bigger and brute force development with.

PS4k don't allow them to go much bigger or better .
It's only 2 times the power games being 1080 or 60fps use up that power .
DICE don't make there engine to sell as i said Ubi and CD project engine will get better over time.

 

[Demanufacture]

Money from who want 4K or better graphic but at the same time don't want to build a PC.

Well there won't be native AAA 4k games..Probably the Order's graphics at 60fps+full 1080 but is that worth another $400 or $500? I'm not so sure.

 

[rambis]

PlayStation was discussed as a platform with future intension for expansion from pretty much the time the PS4 was announced. Limiting the platform to the ps4 is not Sony's intent by any means

Exactly.

I don't know why, in Neogaf there is a lot of optimism about this turning out all right. There is a spanish forum I also read, and they are not liking his news one bit. Like 7 posts out of 10 are from people against PS4k.

GAF seems to be more progressive but there's a fair amount of backlash here as well.

 

[Keihart]

If it releases in 2017 they might be able to catch zen, but only if it's not in an APU

Since the new gpu will be polaris they only have one apu for this year as far as I know, polaris gpu + excavator cpu (an iteration on the same old shitty bulldozer cpus)

Anyone have any guesses to if they'll use an apu again, and what the cpu choices can be? (considering they'll use polaris for the gpu, what with them saying the chip is 2x more powerful, is clocked higher and is smaller to boot)

Did they mention a 14nm apu anywhere still using jaguar? The newer puma apu is still 28nm according to google.



That's what i've been trying to explain , a 2500k with a decent overclock is more powerful than that 3.2ghz i5 4460, it's also as powerful as the recommended spec 3.9ghz i5 4690


The q6600 is a LONG time ago, there was a sizeable performance jump from the core2quads to the nehalem i7s (i7 920 etc), then another good performance jump to the i5 2500k (and they overclocked amazingly well, easy 4.5ghz), but since then? nothing... a 5 percent incremental performance boost and a 10 percent price hike each time. Times have changed

I have a 4690k and it's only a good 10 percent faster than the 2500k from 2011.. and it doesn't overclock better either. a 5 year old i5 2500k is not scraping by at all it's still up there and still up for providing 100+ fps in games

You can't upgrade if there is nothing to upgrade to. People only upgrade from a 2500k if they need a 6 or 8 core cpu for video editing or work related stuff, or if they are some enthusiast power user who is a stickler for getting the lowest possible frame times and are willing to spend 500 euros on a new mobo+cpu+ram for a 20 percent performance boost... not many people do that. In the old days a 5 year time span would mean cpu performance tripled.

Thruth! quoting you for reference.
This is what makes me think that if PS4K is a thing you are proably better off investing in a PC for VR and gaming in general if fast iterations become a norm.

 

[Corto]

In his defense, we are all confused. I was personally hoping $399 for Fall 2017, but $499 for Fall 2016 is too high, too soon and too conflicting with PSVR's release. Releasing multiple products in the same year sounds disastrous.

I may cancel PSVR as well if this console is as big of an upgrade as it sounds.

Almost exactly my thoughts as I was thinking Spring of 2017 and a considerable rebate for the PS4 post-E3 preparing the way to the premium SKU. I am now in "wait for official announcement mode" as the last whispers from osiris weren't very exciting for me.

 

[Guymelef]

I wonder how "bad" is going to affect all this rumors to PS4 sales.

 

[videogamephilosopher]

uhhhhhhhh.... you said 4000% support. I extrapolated that 100% meant buying one and 4000 meant buying 40. I am re-adjusting your support to 90% and you should be ashamed

HahaNo worries. It wasn't meant to be accurate because in the context the max would only be 100% but I wanted to exaggerate my support by matching the 4000% to 4k in places.

I guess if I had to explain the joke it wasn't funny. As the e(L)ders would have it I will take the L .

The only thing bad thing I see would be not having a credit or trade in program if this becomes a common thing.

 

[Tetranet]

At least this will mean that consoles will always be backwards compatible out of the box.

 

[Loris146]

Well there won't be native AAA 4k games..Probably the Order's graphics at 60fps+full 1080 but is that worth another $400? I'm not so sure.

Marketing man. They will talk about 4K without specifying native or upscaled eheh

I wonder how "bad" is going to affect all this rumors to PS4 sales.

Almost no impact.

 

[SanguineShark]

Don't get all hyperbole on me. Nobody said anything about 'blindly following'...

But if you think this is a "bad idea", and have been feverishly against every little bit, then why would you buy it and be "a part of the problem" helping make it a success?

That is where I am confused.



So nothing changes.

Thanks for the discussion.

I do not believe it will get worse.

I know you're not talking to me, but I'd like to address this. I'm in a similar camp as the poster you're quoting - in the sense that I'm against this, but may still upgrade.

If Sony offers a reasonable trade-in program with a decent explanation/presentation detailing their plans, plans that include getting the best performance out of the original PS4, I'll consider upgrading.

This would show to me they are at the very least trying to work with purchasers who recently may have bought a PS4, and might be understandably upset ... while also taking into consideration those that do not wish to upgrade, or simply can't afford to do so.

 

[16BitNova]

Question. So reading the OP I see that this might upscale 1080p games to 4K. Wouldn't that look bad though? I remember my PS3 being set to 1080p and when it would upscale a 720p game up to 1080p it would look worse (blurry). I would switch it back to 720p for such games cause the blur was too ugly.

 

[truth411]

The real elephant in the room imo is bandwidth. If the PS4k is 2x more powerful by doubling it's SP to 2304, thus 3.68Tflops and increase the clock speed to 1000mhz, thus 4.6Tflops. What the heck is the point with only 176GB of bandwidth SHARED with the CPU?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

GAF seems to be more progressive but there's a fair amount of backlash here as well.

There was also a backlash when Nintendo introduced its Wii. Hell, if Henry Ford had asked NeoGAF how his first car should look like, we would have told him to skip this shit and produce faster horses...

 

[Toki767]

Question. So reading the OP I see that this might upscale 1080p games to 4K. Wouldn't that look bad though? I remember my PS3 being set to 1080p and when it would upscale a 720p game up to 1080p it would look worse (blurry).

1080p is 4x the pixels of 4K. So upscaling is not going to look as bad as 720 to 1080p which has no real proportionate scale.

 

[platina]

Well there won't be native AAA 4k games..Probably the Order's graphics at 60fps+full 1080 but is that worth another $400 or $500? I'm not so sure.

Uncharted 4 already runs circles around the orders visuals and its full 1080 and much more open. The same shader artist that worked on the order is on board and the improvements are already noticeable. Just mentioning that it's gonna have a cpu increase along with twice gpu power should be enough for a very noticeable difference in visuals

 

[Mister Megative]

I wonder how "bad" is going to affect all this rumors to PS4 sales.

It'll have no affect at all.

 

[Seijuro]

Reading a few pages of this thread Sony should get behind this as soon as possible to clear up misunderstandings, worries and conspiracy theories with consumers, especially people that just bought a PS4.

I get that this kind of thing is the norm on the tablet and phone market. But many gamers buy their consoles exactly for the reason to not have to upgrade after 3 years. If your smartphone game für 1 buck doesn't run perfect on an old device you won't care, but if you get told to your face that the console you bought last month for €400 won't run your €70 game as good as the new shit you are supposed to buy I can see where there's a problem for many console gamers.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

So it's being released this year now? If it's a big of a upgrade as has been said I will have to cancel my PSVR order.

This doesn't make any sense. PSVR will work on both.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There was also a backlash when Nintendo introduced its Wii. Hell, if Henry Ford had asked NeoGAF how his first car should look like, we would have told him to skip this shit and produce faster horses...

Hahaha, nice!

 

[Ethelwulf]

Negativity doesn't just disappear.

One does not simply walk into a leak thread expecting all but positive comments... Sadly.

 

[family_guy]

Question. So reading the OP I see that this might upscale 1080p games to 4K. Wouldn't that look bad though? I remember my PS3 being set to 1080p and when it would upscale a 720p game up to 1080p it would look worse (blurry). I would switch it back to 720p for such games cause the blur was too ugly.

No it won't look bad. However if you have a 4K television it will upscale any sub-4k resolution anyway. So the question is which will do the better job, the PS4K or your TV? You'll just have to test it both ways.

 

[Symbiotx]

This doesn't make any sense. PSVR will work on both.

Yeah, but apparently everyone is kneejerk threatening to cancel their orders out of fear despite them saying that ps4k games will be compatible with the ps4.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

This doesn't make any sense. PSVR will work on both.

Could not have the money for both at the same time .
It's the same for me will get PS4k this year and PSVR next year .
Was going to get PSVR this year but having better running game beat that .

 

[David Ricardo]

This doesn't make any sense. PSVR will work on both.

PS4.5 will make all games run better, not only PSVR games. He chooses to have a better console now and buy VR later. I am in the same boat. I was going to buy PSVR this christmas, but if PS4.5 is released at the same time and offers an improvement in VR experiences, I am not so confident that VR is going to be great or have a lot of support in the PS4 as I was before this rumours leaked.

 

[Kyoufu]

Could not have the money for both at the same time .
It's the same for me will get PS4k this year and PSVR next year .
Was going to get PS VR this year but having better running game beat that .

PS4K is out this year? Awesome.

 

[Keihart]

all this talk about how other industries update hardware constantly, do anyone actually like this? i've never had and had always find it the example of inventing needs by companies.

Rebranding stuff like LCD technolgy calling it LED when is just some cheaper backlight tech or rebranding GPUs to make them seem newer, or phones updating every year with no real benefits for the user but they bloat the OS so old phones run slower...

I've always found the consoles to be the odd one and better one because of this, you rarely see that much convinience for your money, so yeah , even if i can afford it i really don't want to buy it out of spite for the model and i doubt i am the odd one with this opinion.

 

[Beefy]

This doesn't make any sense. PSVR will work on both.

Yes it does make sense. I am not going to spend that amount of money so close to each other.

 

[Demanufacture]

Uncharted 4 already runs circles around the orders visuals and its full 1080 and much more open. The same shader artist that worked on the order is on board and the improvements are already noticeable. Just mentioning that it's gonna have a cpu increase along with twice gpu power should be enough for a very noticeable difference in visuals

Not saying there won't be, but if they are already producing the best visuals..what's the point?

 

[Elios83]

The real elephant in the room imo is bandwidth. If the PS4k is 2x more powerful by doubling it's SP to 2304, thus 3.68Tflops and increase the clock speed to 1000mhz, thus 4.6Tflops. What the heck is the point with only 176GB of bandwidth SHARED with the CPU?

It's sufficient to use higher clocked GDDR5 chips and increase the bandwidth.
Also these are just rumors and the CPU part doesn't even make a lot of sense tbh.
Don't take everything as confirmed.
There is enough evidence to say that Sony is working on a PS4 hardware upgrade and that's all for now.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

PS4K is out this year? Awesome.

If we go by the rumor in this thread .

 

[Beefy]

Yeah, but apparently everyone is kneejerk threatening to cancel their orders out of fear despite them saying that ps4k games will be compatible with the ps4.

Nothing kneejerk about it.

 

[platina]

Not saying there won't be, but if they are already producing the best visuals..what's the point?

Because it doesn't just end there. The game could be 60fps, it can have better motion blur, it could use msaa instead of their temporal solution. Have you seen the multiplayer beta? Its an old build but still the aa solution produces so many artifacts and grainyness. There is always room for more pristine IQ.

 

[David Ricardo]

There was also a backlash when Nintendo introduced its Wii. Hell, if Henry Ford had asked NeoGAF how his first car should look like, we would have told him to skip this shit and produce faster horses...

There was also backlash when Sony announced 599$ for the PS3 and MS announced their kinect+DRM strategy, and those didn't turn out good. GAF isn't always right, but neither is it always wrong.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

There was also backlash when Sony announced 599$ for the PS3 and MS announced their kinect+DRM strategy, and those didn't turn out good. GAF isn't always right, but neither is it always wrong.

So you're saying we could as well flip a coin?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

PS4.5 will make all games run better, not only PSVR games. He chooses to have a better console now and buy VR later. I am in the same boat. I was going to buy PSVR this christmas, but if PS4.5 is released at the same time and offers an improvement in VR experiences, I am not so confident that VR is going to be great or have a lot of support in the PS4 as I was before this rumours leaked.

If I understood everything Osiris et al said correctly, then old games will not run better on PS4k unless they get an update. But maybe framerate drops in certain games will be at least reduced anyhow?

 

[Yopis]

There was also backlash when Sony announced 599$ for the PS3 and MS announced their kinect+DRM strategy, and those didn't turn out good. GAF isn't always right, but neither is it always wrong.

Out of those examples which company fixed the issue, and which gave up on the product?