Regarding "balance", I feel that arguing for absolute balance is detrimental to any game system, but ignoring the importance of balance is also a terrible idea. Ideally, what I want most out of game systems is the courage to innovate and present interesting mechanics, without feeling defective.
Many people tend to misunderstand balance imo. If the game systems can be broken via min/max, that isn't necessarily poor game balance, but rather a sign of systems designed to give the player the freedom to exploit. I don't feel that balancing a game tightly around min/max is ever a good idea because you end up with very functional but boring systems built entirely around mathematical tuning.
On the other hand, it is absolutely necessary for game systems to be well balanced for low-level and "default" play. A game without proper challenge that feels satisfying is letting down the potential of the game systems. If the player has no need to experiment and explore the potential of the game systems to progress, many won't bother. On the other hand if the challenge curve is too high and feels overwhelming, it also means the game systems are not being explained well enough and many players could give up without ever seeing their true potential.
In general I feel that games like Sakura Taisen tend to fall on the "too easy" end of the spectrum, while games like Resonance of Fate fall on the "too oblique" end. Many older dungeon crawlers and Dragon Quest games fall in the "too well balanced around min/max" category. I'm not saying these are bad games, I love all of those mentioned here, but it's important to recognize how balance can impact the game experience.
As long as it doesn't have a low ceiling reguarding breaking with it being incredibly breakable with minimal, obvious thought, I'm intrigued. No "Rolling Sobat! Shotgun Blast!" ad infinitum, really.
Many Atlus RPGs, particularly SMT, are rather tiring for this reason. You spend more time min/maxing than anything else. It can get rather tedious. It doesn't help that there are certain "hidden" game mechanics in the Min/Max scheme the game never tells you about either, which can really screw you up!
So far from the impressions it seems like this is my kind of game. I don't want to play a really long JRPG, especially when I also have Zero Escape 3 and Odin Sphere: Leifthrasir down the line in June. Although I do hope it scratches my SO1/SO2 itch because SO3 and SO4 were "departures" from the original SO games.
I hope the battle system is as fun as SO4's though, since that game has one of my favorite battle systems.
I've hit a brick wall. If any character manages to take a single hit, there's a chance they'll die within the next two seconds. Earlier in the game I noticed that if I interrupted the enemy AI once, they were often unable to do anything for the remainder of the fight as long as I kept hitting them (depending on what enemy it was). Now the same is true of my party.
Where are you? I remember one point in the last dungeon where 1-2 of my characters would die against specific enemies right after the battle started, because of their attack patterns, but other than that, I don't recall any harder non-boss moments in the game.
Where are you? I remember one point in the last dungeon where 1-2 of my characters would die against specific enemies right after the battle started, because of their attack patterns, but other than that, I don't recall any harder non-boss moments in the game.
You can:
- Level up a bit on the previous group using Ocarina.
- Wait until gunships turn around and rush them with your strongest character (they don't have that much hp)
- Give Miki Sage and Holy Mother, control her so that she doesn't get hit and heal/ressurect your party members
You can:
- Level up a bit on the previous group using Ocarina.
- Wait until gunships turn around and rush them with your strongest character (they don't have that much hp)
- Give Miki Sage and Holy Mother, control her so that she doesn't get hit and heal/ressurect your party members
I have sage on Miki, but I generally like to play these games without forcing myself to be healer like I often felt like I had to in SO2. But I managed to get lucky and break through. Everything other than the gunships is more or less manageable, so I managed to get to the next save point and fight the boss.
I have sage on Miki, but I generally like to play these games without forcing myself to be healer like I often felt like I had to in SO2. But I managed to get lucky and break through. Everything other than the gunships is more or less manageable, so I managed to get to the next save point and fight the boss.
To be honest gunships are the hardest part of that part, but when you level up a bit and stop taking that much damage from them, even your other characters (who are too stupid to dodge) shouldn't die from the first barrage of attacks.
Yeah I hit the part with those exact gunships late last night and just kept getting mowed down by their cannons within 10 seconds. It was getting late and my reflexes were not up to the task, so I just gave up on it. Will take my revenge tonight.
Thanks for all the information on this sounds really interesting, I'm the kind of person that likes to switch around who I play as often when playing JRPGs if given the option, so this sounds right up my alley.
Thanks for all the information on this sounds really interesting, I'm the kind of person that likes to switch around who I play as often when playing JRPGs if given the option, so this sounds right up my alley.
To be honest gunships are the hardest part of that part, but when you level up a bit and stop taking that much damage from them, even your other characters (who are too stupid to dodge) shouldn't die from the first barrage of attacks.
As long as it doesn't have a low ceiling reguarding breaking with it being incredibly breakable with minimal, obvious thought, I'm intrigued. No "Rolling Sobat! Shotgun Blast!" ad infinitum, really.
Odd, they've kinda been off that kick for a while. Sad, I miss the danger and intrigue.
To an extent; those games are exhausting and really some of those mechanics are near impossible to figure out until it's too late (if you ever do. I'm looking at Demon Level modifiers here.)
SMTIV still seems to have a fair amount of that style in it, so I'm not sure they're off it quite yet, even if SMT was a bit relaxed compared to previous games. It's still exhausting to play.
Also, About Side Kick/Shot Gun Blast: That was a darn shame and a bit silly. Remember the skill limit in SO3? Someone years ago used a gameshark to remove that limit and make a sweet combo video - which I can't find. Without the skill limit, you could do some amazing Fighting Game like combos on enemies that were both fun and clever! Of course, they were never still as practical as spamming sidekick/shotgun blast. The CP limit was silly and redundant.
SO3 almost had an amazing, deep, combat system. But between cancel bonuses being exploitable with spamming, the CP limit, it came crashing down. I've always wished that SO would just capitalize on what they almost had in SO3.
Got my copy last night and played like 3 hours. I got up to where I meet up with Anne and Emerson.
It's really good so far. It's a little jarring at first but after getting used to it I really enjoy the way everything just flows together from story into battle pretty much seamlessly. The game definitely aiming to feel like SO1 but with the vibe of SO3/4.
The writing definitely reminds me of Exist Archive and VP right now where the characterization is fairly strong but the character quirks are understated. Fiore, in particular is dressed crazy, but she talks and acts like Lorenta from Valkyrie Profile. That's pretty nice considering how wrong it really could have gone, lol.
Combat is really enjoyable. I like the large party encounters and adjusting the battle system to a core RPS system was a really nice idea. it makes building your bonus really transparent and easily understandable even if you don't read about how to do it. I don't remember it being possible in SO3 or SO4 to walk around and still guard but it's really nice and helpful if it's new, especially because of that RPS system.
The new role system is a nice change for the series and I like that they simplified the overall creation system a little bit, at least from a point allotment standpoint. First encounter with Welch was really jank though... I like her design but that was a jank scene lol.
I've beaten the game. At first it evoked feelings of SO1, partly for plot related reasons, partly due to the small world you start out in. The former is very much intentional.
However, over time it became clear that the tiny world you start out in is all there is. The plot starts out fine. The writing is inoffensive which is a step up from the last game, from what I understand (I ultimately decided to avoid SO4, despite the fact I would probably enjoy the gameplay). As the game progresses, you're sent across the same small fields, which constitute each region in the game. They're about the size of one small area in FFXII, if not smaller. After a certain point in the game the errands you're sent on all consist of "save Lilia," as the game enters a loop of her being kidnapped and rescued, with minor plot progressions (if you can call them that), over and over again. In fact, at one point in the game
they duplicate her for the purpose of giving you not only one, but two Lilia's to save.
.
In the end the game being small didn't stop me from putting a fairly decent amount of time into the game (partly due to grinding/crafting later in the game), so the length of the game didn't feel like a problem. But the volume and contents fail to satisfy even the lowest of expectations. It just doesn't feel small. It feels thin. Some level of density is what you might expect of a world that is so very, very small. But everything about the game just feels unfinished. It feels truncated. Something had to have happened during development to shrink the game to this level.
The cutscenes in the game seem to be evidence something went wrong. They come in two forms: one are fully animated cutscenes that can be paused and skipped. The second are unskippable scenes that are generally seamless, and despite being animated and feature the characters moving around, they're mostly the equivalent of textboxes. These feature the same camera as the general gameplay. Over time, however, the two become blurred. Suddenly dramatic scenes with fixed camera angles occur, removing your ability to both pause and skip them altogether. The second type of cutscene seems to be a remnant of a hyped up interactive/seamless cutscene system where the player could affect story flow that was never implemented into the game, as far as I can tell. And then there's the bizarre and lengthy scenes of space ship battles ... with no space ships. Despite them seemingly have been rendered and in game. Or the late game boss major boss fight ... that's just a recolor of a common enemy.
I suppose it's impossible to know whether time or budget was the culprit with this game, but the overall picture seems to suggest there wasn't enough development time. It's hard to believe the game was ever intended to be this limited in scope, especially with the hints that it would address SO3 (as far as I can tell, it didn't) and the bizarre inclusion of
the time gate that amounts showing Lilia her past to solve the problem of her amnesia, which previous cutscenes implied had been resolved and seems to have no reason for inclusion in the first place
.
I was able to have fun with it. There were a few dungeons that were able to evoke the feeling of playing a Star Ocean, despite their scale. But I would have to say it's notably below average.
I've beaten the game. At first it evoked feelings of SO1, partly for plot related reasons, partly due to the small world you start out in. The former is very much intentional.
However, over time it became clear that the tiny world you start out in is all there is. The plot starts out fine. The writing is inoffensive which is a step up from the last game, from what I understand (I ultimately decided to avoid SO4, despite the fact I would probably enjoy the gameplay). As the game progresses, you're sent across the same small fields, which constitute each region in the game. They're about the size of one small area in FFXII, if not smaller. After a certain point in the game the errands you're sent on all consist of "save Lilia," as the game enters a loop of her being kidnapped and rescued, with minor plot progressions (if you can call them that), over and over again. In fact, at one point in the game
they duplicate her for the purpose of giving you not only one, but two Lilia's to save.
.
In the end the game being small didn't stop me from putting a fairly decent amount of time into the game (partly due to grinding/crafting later in the game), so the length of the game didn't feel like a problem. But the volume and contents fail to satisfy even the lowest of expectations. It just doesn't feel small. It feels thin. Some level of density is what you might expect of a world that is so very, very small. But everything about the game just feels unfinished. It feels truncated. Something had to have happened during development to shrink the game to this level.
The cutscenes in the game seem to be evidence something went wrong. They come in two forms: one are fully animated cutscenes that can be paused and skipped. The second are unskippable scenes that are generally seamless, and despite being animated and feature the characters moving around, they're mostly the equivalent of textboxes. These feature the same camera as the general gameplay. Over time, however, the two become blurred. Suddenly dramatic scenes with fixed camera angles occur, removing your ability to both pause and skip them altogether. The second type of cutscene seems to be a remnant of a hyped up interactive/seamless cutscene system where the player could affect story flow that was never implemented into the game, as far as I can tell. And then there's the bizarre and lengthy scenes of space ship battles ... with no space ships. Despite them seemingly have been rendered and in game. Or the late game boss major boss fight ... that's just a recolor of a common enemy.
I suppose it's impossible to know whether time or budget was the culprit with this game, but the overall picture seems to suggest there wasn't enough development time. It's hard to believe the game was ever intended to be this limited in scope, especially with the hints that it would address SO3 (as far as I can tell, it didn't) and the bizarre inclusion of
the time gate that amounts showing Lilia her past to solve the problem of her amnesia, which previous cutscenes implied had been resolved and seems to have no reason for inclusion in the first place
.
I was able to have fun with it. There were a few dungeons that were able to evoke the feeling of playing a Star Ocean, despite their scale. But I would have to say it's notably below average.
I think the problems the game has are too weird to be strictly budget related. Maybe everything hinged on non linear storytelling that didn't happen, who knows.
I've beaten the game. At first it evoked feelings of SO1, partly for plot related reasons, partly due to the small world you start out in. The former is very much intentional.
However, over time it became clear that the tiny world you start out in is all there is. The plot starts out fine. The writing is inoffensive which is a step up from the last game, from what I understand (I ultimately decided to avoid SO4, despite the fact I would probably enjoy the gameplay). As the game progresses, you're sent across the same small fields, which constitute each region in the game. They're about the size of one small area in FFXII, if not smaller. After a certain point in the game the errands you're sent on all consist of "save Lilia," as the game enters a loop of her being kidnapped and rescued, with minor plot progressions (if you can call them that), over and over again. In fact, at one point in the game
they duplicate her for the purpose of giving you not only one, but two Lilia's to save.
.
In the end the game being small didn't stop me from putting a fairly decent amount of time into the game (partly due to grinding/crafting later in the game), so the length of the game didn't feel like a problem. But the volume and contents fail to satisfy even the lowest of expectations. It just doesn't feel small. It feels thin. Some level of density is what you might expect of a world that is so very, very small. But everything about the game just feels unfinished. It feels truncated. Something had to have happened during development to shrink the game to this level.
The cutscenes in the game seem to be evidence something went wrong. They come in two forms: one are fully animated cutscenes that can be paused and skipped. The second are unskippable scenes that are generally seamless, and despite being animated and feature the characters moving around, they're mostly the equivalent of textboxes. These feature the same camera as the general gameplay. Over time, however, the two become blurred. Suddenly dramatic scenes with fixed camera angles occur, removing your ability to both pause and skip them altogether. The second type of cutscene seems to be a remnant of a hyped up interactive/seamless cutscene system where the player could affect story flow that was never implemented into the game, as far as I can tell. And then there's the bizarre and lengthy scenes of space ship battles ... with no space ships. Despite them seemingly have been rendered and in game. Or the late game boss major boss fight ... that's just a recolor of a common enemy.
I suppose it's impossible to know whether time or budget was the culprit with this game, but the overall picture seems to suggest there wasn't enough development time. It's hard to believe the game was ever intended to be this limited in scope, especially with the hints that it would address SO3 (as far as I can tell, it didn't) and the bizarre inclusion of
the time gate that amounts showing Lilia her past to solve the problem of her amnesia, which previous cutscenes implied had been resolved and seems to have no reason for inclusion in the first place
.
I was able to have fun with it. There were a few dungeons that were able to evoke the feeling of playing a Star Ocean, despite their scale. But I would have to say it's notably below average.
thank you for this. from everything i'd seen up to now, i'd been having an impossible time warming to the game's cast (which just seems mind-bogglingly cliched). your final thoughts's've left me feeling i'd be best off just passing on this ...
I've beaten the game. At first it evoked feelings of SO1, partly for plot related reasons, partly due to the small world you start out in. The former is very much intentional.
However, over time it became clear that the tiny world you start out in is all there is. The plot starts out fine. The writing is inoffensive which is a step up from the last game, from what I understand (I ultimately decided to avoid SO4, despite the fact I would probably enjoy the gameplay). As the game progresses, you're sent across the same small fields, which constitute each region in the game. They're about the size of one small area in FFXII, if not smaller. After a certain point in the game the errands you're sent on all consist of "save Lilia," as the game enters a loop of her being kidnapped and rescued, with minor plot progressions (if you can call them that), over and over again. In fact, at one point in the game
they duplicate her for the purpose of giving you not only one, but two Lilia's to save.
.
In the end the game being small didn't stop me from putting a fairly decent amount of time into the game (partly due to grinding/crafting later in the game), so the length of the game didn't feel like a problem. But the volume and contents fail to satisfy even the lowest of expectations. It just doesn't feel small. It feels thin. Some level of density is what you might expect of a world that is so very, very small. But everything about the game just feels unfinished. It feels truncated. Something had to have happened during development to shrink the game to this level.
The cutscenes in the game seem to be evidence something went wrong. They come in two forms: one are fully animated cutscenes that can be paused and skipped. The second are unskippable scenes that are generally seamless, and despite being animated and feature the characters moving around, they're mostly the equivalent of textboxes. These feature the same camera as the general gameplay. Over time, however, the two become blurred. Suddenly dramatic scenes with fixed camera angles occur, removing your ability to both pause and skip them altogether. The second type of cutscene seems to be a remnant of a hyped up interactive/seamless cutscene system where the player could affect story flow that was never implemented into the game, as far as I can tell. And then there's the bizarre and lengthy scenes of space ship battles ... with no space ships. Despite them seemingly have been rendered and in game. Or the late game boss major boss fight ... that's just a recolor of a common enemy.
I suppose it's impossible to know whether time or budget was the culprit with this game, but the overall picture seems to suggest there wasn't enough development time. It's hard to believe the game was ever intended to be this limited in scope, especially with the hints that it would address SO3 (as far as I can tell, it didn't) and the bizarre inclusion of
the time gate that amounts showing Lilia her past to solve the problem of her amnesia, which previous cutscenes implied had been resolved and seems to have no reason for inclusion in the first place
.
I was able to have fun with it. There were a few dungeons that were able to evoke the feeling of playing a Star Ocean, despite their scale. But I would have to say it's notably below average.
Thanks for the well thought out spoiler free review! It sounds like I should enjoy this game if I go in with tempered expectations. Amazon Prime discount will make it better at the lower 48 dollar price point too.
I don't tend to have a lot of time to play games during the week, but I'm still chipping away at it a few minutes at a time. I hit a difficulty spike which prompted me to stop hoarding my skill points and ingredients and I started playing around with item creation some more. This game suffers from the same issue I think all SO games suffer from, which is that IC only feels like it's worth the investment when you have rare items to put into it. I managed to make some equipment that was stronger than what I had but ended up being only marginally stronger than what I could buy in the next town. I think it's probably wiser to rush roles with SP instead.
I don't tend to have a lot of time to play games during the week, but I'm still chipping away at it a few minutes at a time. I hit a difficulty spike which prompted me to stop hoarding my skill points and ingredients and I started playing around with item creation some more. This game suffers from the same issue I think all SO games suffer from, which is that IC only feels like it's worth the investment when you have rare items to put into it. I managed to make some equipment that was stronger than what I had but ended up being only marginally stronger than what I could buy in the next town. I think it's probably wiser to rush roles with SP instead.
At a certain point in the game it gets much easier. It's probably more approachable in this game in the long run ... At least compared to the first two. I'm pretty sure most resources you need drop from enemies. I did some grinding late game and was able to make a pretty nice sword, but it gives it to you in the last dungeon anyways.
Later on you can also strengthen equipment, which can be as simple as buying two swords, merging them and gaining an extra 40 or so attack power. And then you can just do it again. I used this to get about 1100 attack power by the end of the game.
I've beaten the game. At first it evoked feelings of SO1, partly for plot related reasons, partly due to the small world you start out in. The former is very much intentional.
However, over time it became clear that the tiny world you start out in is all there is. The plot starts out fine. The writing is inoffensive which is a step up from the last game, from what I understand (I ultimately decided to avoid SO4, despite the fact I would probably enjoy the gameplay). As the game progresses, you're sent across the same small fields, which constitute each region in the game. They're about the size of one small area in FFXII, if not smaller. After a certain point in the game the errands you're sent on all consist of "save Lilia," as the game enters a loop of her being kidnapped and rescued, with minor plot progressions (if you can call them that), over and over again. In fact, at one point in the game
they duplicate her for the purpose of giving you not only one, but two Lilia's to save.
.
In the end the game being small didn't stop me from putting a fairly decent amount of time into the game (partly due to grinding/crafting later in the game), so the length of the game didn't feel like a problem. But the volume and contents fail to satisfy even the lowest of expectations. It just doesn't feel small. It feels thin. Some level of density is what you might expect of a world that is so very, very small. But everything about the game just feels unfinished. It feels truncated. Something had to have happened during development to shrink the game to this level.
The cutscenes in the game seem to be evidence something went wrong. They come in two forms: one are fully animated cutscenes that can be paused and skipped. The second are unskippable scenes that are generally seamless, and despite being animated and feature the characters moving around, they're mostly the equivalent of textboxes. These feature the same camera as the general gameplay. Over time, however, the two become blurred. Suddenly dramatic scenes with fixed camera angles occur, removing your ability to both pause and skip them altogether. The second type of cutscene seems to be a remnant of a hyped up interactive/seamless cutscene system where the player could affect story flow that was never implemented into the game, as far as I can tell. And then there's the bizarre and lengthy scenes of space ship battles ... with no space ships. Despite them seemingly have been rendered and in game. Or the late game boss major boss fight ... that's just a recolor of a common enemy.
I suppose it's impossible to know whether time or budget was the culprit with this game, but the overall picture seems to suggest there wasn't enough development time. It's hard to believe the game was ever intended to be this limited in scope, especially with the hints that it would address SO3 (as far as I can tell, it didn't) and the bizarre inclusion of
the time gate that amounts showing Lilia her past to solve the problem of her amnesia, which previous cutscenes implied had been resolved and seems to have no reason for inclusion in the first place
.
I was able to have fun with it. There were a few dungeons that were able to evoke the feeling of playing a Star Ocean, despite their scale. But I would have to say it's notably below average.
Thanks for posting this. I can't express how disappointed I am now. Star Ocean games (whether good or bad overall) have been large sprawling adventures that made you feel like you were part of a huge world/universe and to hear the world is tiny and sparse is just...super depressing. I'll still play it but damn
Thanks for posting this. I can't express how disappointed I am now. Star Ocean games (whether good or bad overall) have been large sprawling adventures that made you feel like you were part of a huge world/universe and to hear the world is tiny and sparse is just...super depressing. I'll still play it but damn
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
Thanks for posting this. I can't express how disappointed I am now. Star Ocean games (whether good or bad overall) have been large sprawling adventures that made you feel like you were part of a huge world/universe and to hear the world is tiny and sparse is just...super depressing. I'll still play it but damn
How does it compare to SO4? SO4 had the worst character design and dialogs in any JRPG I have ever played. But I was able to beat the game because the combat is fun. I don't have much hope for the character design or dialog for SO5, but I hope at least the combat is good.
Shorter length is a non-issue, but the tiny world definitely sounds lame. I know expecting Star Ocean to be this massive space opera RPG is too much, but at least give me a COUPLE of different planets and such.
Still gonna buy and probably enjoy it, at least to some extent, tho.
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
From the looks of it, it seems like SE is targeting budget level JRPGs, that mean all non-mainline-KH, FF, and DQ games will receive smaller budget and that will affect games that had large worlds in their previous games (like SO4, which had big worlds).
Setsuna was obviously budgeted, and this one had budget constraints, so I'll assume NieR Automata will be budgeted (meaning it'll probably be a 15 hour JRPG, unless it's cheap to develop at Platinum) and World of Final Fantasy will too.
From the looks of it, it seems like SE is targeting budget level JRPGs, that mean all non-mainline-KH, FF, and DQ games will receive smaller budget and that will affect games that had large worlds in their previous games (like SO4, which had big worlds).
Setsuna was obviously budgeted, and this one had budget constraints, so I'll assume NieR Automata will be budgeted (meaning it'll probably be a 15 hour JRPG, unless it's cheap to develop at Platinum) and World of Final Fantasy will too.
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
Pre-ordered and paid off already.... I am a little disappointed by the lack true Star Ocean cutscenes and cinematics, but everything thing else sounds on par with expectations so there is no way I'm turning back now!
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
I think with games like this the sales expectations are pretty low to begin with. Square knows the size of the JRPG market in the west for anything that isn't a mainline Final Fantasy game. They know that most JRPG fans are going to buy it if it is passable. I'm sure the budget for this game was determined by this knowledge and I doubt very much it will seal the fate of anything.
Bamco has proven that you can make JRPGs fairly regularly and have success sales wise in the West.
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
Xenoblade was one of the rare jrpgs that got good reviews over here and it still sold shit, it's just how it is for jrpgs that aren't final fantasy. Dragon Quest XI might be a masterpiece but I can guarantee it still doesn't sell well in the west
No one is going to buy this game in the west are they? Lol I can just see this game bombing hard and sealing the series fate. Maybe the sparse budget will mean low returns might help?
...
