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[TheBlackMarvel]

There was. Maybe it wasn't the player, but without a lord of cinder, the cycle wouldn't continue, and we wouldn't arrive at the state that the world is in. (linking the flame over and over again)

But not necessarily in Drangleic. I'm not disputing the fire was linked, I'm saying it didn't have to happen in Drangleic and most likely didn't.

 

[Lux R7]

I mean, you didn't even finish burning lol It's not like the sun was suddenly going to be bright in 5 seconds.

How much time it takes?
No ok fair, but what i meant is that there are almost no hints that it worked out, only little flames on your body (but maybe it's a design choice)

 

[Granjinha]

But not necessarily in Drangleic. I'm not disputing the fire was linked, I'm saying it didn't have to happen in Drangleic and most likely didn't.

But Drangleic that had the flame, in that time. Same thing with Lordran, during the first era. I think.

 

[Ferr986]

Exactly. He didnt suceed. He wanted to free everyone of the curse. He didnt. He continued stuck in the cycles.

And i did get the DLC. Every queen there is a fragment of the abyss, which, in turn, is a fragment of manus that was defeated in DS1. Maybe you didnt get it?

Also, i clarified about the cycles thing.

I was refering to the simplification of saying that the DLC about fragments being Queens to steal the King thrones when only one of them was a Queen and didn't even try to steal the throne. Elana didn't even give a fuck about being Queen. Also, the DLC lore was more than just the three sisters. Sorry if I sounded like a dick, just wanted to point it was a very simplified version of the DLC.

About Aldia, we agree that he failed to get a cure for the curse but considering he became a living flame (and atleast he can't die) and how the new ending played it was fair to assume it would be a turning point to the series. I dunno, I consider it pretty big! Maybe others dont.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

But Drangleic that had the flame, in that time. Same thing with Lordran, during the first era. I think.

I don't actually believe that to be the case. The Kiln of the First Flame clearly isn't a physical location in the world of Dark Souls. I don't think any particular kingdom has the flame per se, rather, there are ways to access it from pretty much anywhere, provided one has the power.

I was refering to the simplification of saying that the DLC about fragments being Queens to steal the King thrones when only one of them was a Queen and didn't even try to steal the throne. Elana didn't even give a fuck about being Queen. Also, the DLC lore was more than just the three sisters. Sorry if I sounded like a dick, just wanted to point it was a very simplified version of the DLC.

About Aldia, we agree that he failed to get a cure for the curse but considering he became a living flame (and atleast he can't die) and how the new ending played it was fair to assume it would be a turning point to the series. I dunno, I consider it pretty big! Maybe others dont.

They were all Queens. It's in Elana's Boss Name.

Spoiler

Only one of them is arguably not a Queen and that's because her King died before she ever arrived.

 

[Ferr986]

I don't actually believe that to be the case. The Kiln of the First Flame clearly isn't a physical location in the world of Dark Souls. I don't think any particular kingdom has the flame per se, rather, there are ways to access it from pretty much anywhere, provided one has the power.



They were all Queens. It's in Elana's Boss Name.

Spoiler

Only one of them is arguably not a Queen and that's because her King died before she ever arrived.

I know she's called a Queen but there's no lore piece that points that she comes or went to a kingdom to seek the throne (there was never a Kingdom in Shulva, right?). It more like a self imposed title. Her objective was using Sinh to get souls, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

I know she's called a Queen but there's no lore piece that points that she comes or went to a kingdom to seek the throne (there was never a Kingdom in Shulva, right?). It more like a self imposed title. Her objective was using Sinh to get souls, if I'm not mistaken.

Err... The fact your aim is to collect the crown of the Sunken King and to do so you must kill Elana, Squalid Queen would suggest that there was, in fact, a kingdom in Shulva. Her objective (which is stated to be preparation for the day of vengeance) has nothing to do with her being a Queen or not.

Basically, what we know points to her being Queen, you'd need to jump through a lot of hoops and ignore everything we know about the character to come to the conclusion that she was not Queen.

 

[ElFly]

The "let's link the fire once again" ending is weird to me. I mean, it's almost like it's too late, you link it and then there is no explosion of fire, nothing seems to change. The darksign is still there in the sky and credits roll. I don't know.
I really want a post game dlc but i think we will get two mid-game things ( in terms of story).

Well it ended better than for the PC in Dark Souls 1.

There's the part where people can _attempt_ to link the fire and their bodies burn away. Not everyone who beats the Soul of Cinder can link the fire. Turns out that happened in DS1 if you link the fire.

Other people who linked the fire manage to survive and leave corpses to be buried. The DS3 PC manages to be strong enough to survive the process.

But not necessarily in Drangleic. I'm not disputing the fire was linked, I'm saying it didn't have to happen in Drangleic and most likely didn't.

My conclusion is that the fire had been linked before Vendrick came around. I mean, the game tells you it has happened several times. It's only Vendrick and the Bearer of the Curse (the DS2 player character) who become Dark Lords, do not link the fire and the PC just plain old sits in his Lord of Cinder throne.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

My conclusion is that the fire had been linked before Vendrick came around. I mean, the game tells you it has happened several times. It's only Vendrick and the Bearer of the Curse (the DS2 player character) who become Dark Lords, do not link the fire and the PC just plain old sits in his Lord of Cinder throne.

Quite possible, however that also supports my conclusion that the fire wasn't linked in Drangleic as Vendrick founded that kingdom.

 

[ElFly]

Quite possible, however that also supports my conclusion that the fire wasn't linked in Drangleic as Vendrick founded that kingdom.

Maybe Drangleic was called just Drang before.


WRT to Gwynevere and Flann.

It only goes to show that Gwynevere just simply has had more than one husband.

Oceiros is clearly not Flann; Gwynevere left with Flann, lived with him for a while, and then went with Oceiros. Whether Flann lived/founded/is from Heide is a different thing.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Maybe Drangleic was called just Drang before.

Probably not,

Spoiler

it seems to be the other way around.

Interestingly enough, the Drang Twinspears say: Paired spears of the Drang Knights, proclaimed descendants from the land known for the legend of the Linking of the Fire. Interesting choice of words. To me, that suggests it was just a story in Drang

Spoiler

leic

as nobody actually pulled it off. Still, to each their own interpretation.

 

[ElFly]

Probably not,

Spoiler

it seems to be the other way around.

Interestingly enough, the Drang Twinspears say: Paired spears of the Drang Knights, proclaimed descendants from the land known for the legend of the Linking of the Fire. Interesting choice of words. To me, that suggests it was just a story in Drang

Spoiler

leic

as nobody actually pulled it off. Still, to each their own interpretation.

This could also be read as if people don't really believe Drang is a real place. After all, the firekeeper lady in the DS2 intro says "perhaps you have seen it...maybe in a dream".

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

This could also be read as if people don't really believe Drang is a real place.

It could, but you'd have to hurt the language quite a bit to bend it that far. "Known for" suggests that it's the land the legend originated in.

 

[Lux R7]

Well it ended better than for the PC in Dark Souls 1.

There's the part where people can _attempt_ to link the fire and their bodies burn away. Not everyone who beats the Soul of Cinder can link the fire. Turns out that happened in DS1 if you link the fire.

Other people who linked the fire manage to survive and leave corpses to be buried. The DS3 PC manages to be strong enough to survive the process.

You can be right about this.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

You can be right about this.

Probably not, I'd argue the sorry state of the fire in the Link the Fire ending has more to do with the fact the world is basically falling to pieces in Dark Souls 3 rather than any indication that the PC is somehow capable of surviving the process.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I think that Carthus is a most likely a version of Drangleic from before that era. Carthus is described as being the origin of the grave wardens and their dark pyromancy. The area that Wolnir is held in also looks like it has the same doors as the kiln in DS2. It looks like Wolnir was a dark lord who decided not to link the fire and let the world fall to darkness but when it was too late felt that his decision was a mistake. Not a lord of cinder but a dark lord.

 

[ElFly]

It could, but you'd have to hurt the language quite a bit to bend it that far. "Known for" suggests that it's the land the legend originated in.

I am more paying attention to the "proclaimed descendant" part.

It implies that the soldiers are saying they come from Drang, but not everyone agrees (including MAYBE, big maybe the item descriptor narrator, who is normally omniscient).

I think that Carthus is a most likely a version of Drangleic from before that era. Carthus is described as being the origin of the grave wardens and their dark pyromancy. The area that Wolnir is held in also looks like it has the same doors as the kiln in DS2. It looks like Wolnir was a dark lord who decided not to link the fire and let the world fall to darkness but when it was too late felt that his decision was a mistake. Not a lord of cinder but a dark lord.

Some people have forwarded such ideas, particularly given how it seems Wolnir subjugated several lands, which could be seen as the DS2 DLC lands, but I don't really think the doors look similar.

 

[Lux R7]

Probably not, I'd argue the sorry state of the fire in the Link the Fire ending has more to do with the fact the world is basically falling to pieces in Dark Souls 3 rather than any indication that the PC is somehow capable of surviving the process.

This can also be an explanation

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

I am more paying attention to the "proclaimed descendant" part.

It implies that the soldiers are saying they come from Drang, but not everyone (including MAYBE, big maybe) the item descriptor narrator, who is normally omniscient.

That just means they're known as descendants of Drang, not that they're claiming to be. And while it is possible, it's not implied they're lying.

I think that Carthus is a most likely a version of Drangleic from before that era. Carthus is described as being the origin of the grave wardens and their dark pyromancy. The area that Wolnir is held in also looks like it has the same doors as the kiln in DS2. It looks like Wolnir was a dark lord who decided not to link the fire and let the world fall to darkness but when it was too late felt that his decision was a mistake. Not a lord of cinder but a dark lord.

I like this with the caveat that Carthus most likely swallowed up what used to be Drangleic, rather than Carthus literally being Drangleic.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I like this with the caveat that Carthus most likely swallowed up what used to be Drangleic, rather than Carthus literally being Drangleic.

It would be other way around. Drangleic was built on top of Carthus and the throne of want was the throne of Wolnir. Being associated with a dark lord it can be associated with creating a new age of darkness like the kiln is associated with a new age of fire. Carthus was forgotten by most at the time of Dark Souls 2.

 

[Auctopus]

Man, I take a break from this thread for a couple days and all of a sudden we've got a guy arguing that item descriptions don't matter and another saying that a vision of Priscilla means she was Aldritch. What's happening.

I came back to see if any progress had been made and it has just hit the fan.

 

[Raist]

Anyway, was any of Drangleic present in DSIII? I've beaten the game and didn't notice any DSII shouts, really. Dark Souls 1 was everywhere, plenty of Demon's Souls callbacks too.

It's very likely that the Profaned Capital is at least a part and/or different "version" of Drangleic.

The "let's link the fire once again" ending is weird to me. I mean, it's almost like it's too late, you link it and then there is no explosion of fire, nothing seems to change. The darksign is still there in the sky and credits roll. I don't know.
I really want a post game dlc but i think we will get two mid-game things ( in terms of story).

Well if we assume that to properly link the fire, you need to infuse it with souls, especially the Lords', that didn't happen in DS3. You only have mere cinders of lords that previously linked the fire already.

Besides, the "unfit even to be cinder" in the intro may refer to the fact that you're an undead who failed to link the fire previously, but it may also mean you're doomed to fail anyway.

Regardless, it's likely that it's a pointless battle, the flame is bound to fade at some point IMO.

 

[Sinatar]

Anyway, was any of Drangleic present in DSIII?

Presumably Archdragon Peak is the Dragon Shrine from Drangleic. It certainly looks like it anyways. And yea as mentioned above, Profaned Capital appears to have a bunch of DS2 callbacks.

 

[Noray]

I think what Compute means is that item description have little value if all they're gonna be are fluff with little connection to the rest of the world.

Like yeah, she went off with Flann. But considering we know nothing of flann, other gods, have no tangential evidence of anything past him or anything about his relation to the world or others.

Essentially it's "dead weight" lore, it doesn't relate to the story at all unless through pure fan speculation based on nothing, hence it's not important. In that sense I kinda agree with him. It's style over substance, only adding useless questions and brings nothing

Yeah, this. He didn't do a great job of making his case, but the Flann thing was only interesting insofar as it told us there were other gods and Gwynevere and them left. When you have people questioning Gwynevere's involvement in Lothric, which is strongly hinted at in like a dozen item descriptions (divine/hidden blessings, miracles, etc), all because of "but DS1 said she went with Flann!" I silently curse the name of Flavortext Flann, as I will henceforth call him.

 

[Nephtes]

I just want to know what the fuck is up with Dark Firelink Shrine.
I absolutely cannot wrap my head around it.

You wake up in what is ostensibly Light Untended Graves and make your way to light Fire Link Shrine. But the area is not connected to any other location in the world.
Although, TECHNICALLY, if Firelink and Dark Firelink are the same place, Oceiros boss fight room would be directly behind where you begin the game.

Dark Firelink Shrine IS connected to the world via The Consumed King's Garden. So WTF does that make light Firelink Shrine?
Imaginary?

If light Firelink Shrine isn't real, how do all the people you find in the game world make it there?

Don't tell me that somehow Dark Firelink is in the past or future or something... That's ridiculous. You walk to it. There's no loading screen like Archdragon Peak... If anything is in a different time period, it's light Firelink Shrine...

I was so excited when I first found Untended Graves and looked at the Achievement art because it kind of looked like maybe I had found the Firelink Shrine from the original Dark Souls... Only to go in and discover all 5 Lord thrones in there.

This makes no sense...

Insult to injury there's a 3rd copy of the damn Firelink Shrine and all 5 thrones when you go to the Kiln of the First Flame...WTF is that Firelink Shrine all about?

Why do we need 15 thrones for the same 5 Lords??

Honest opinion:
This isn't supposed to make sense... The devs were looking for ways to increase the number of zones visited during the game and said, "what if we include like several almost exact Firelink Shrines in the game with different lighting? It will be cheap to implement and videogame nerds will be scratching their heads about what it all means for YEARS, like that cool pendant we had in Dark Souls 1..."

 

[Raist]

I just want to know what the fuck is up with Dark Firelink Shrine.
I absolutely cannot wrap my head around it.

You wake up in what is ostensibly Light Untended Graves and make your way to light Fire Link Shrine. But the area is not connected to any other location in the world.
Although, TECHNICALLY, if Firelink and Dark Firelink are the same place, Oceiros boss fight room would be directly behind where you begin the game.

Dark Firelink Shrine IS connected to the world via The Consumed King's Garden. So WTF does that make light Firelink Shrine?
Imaginary?

If light Firelink Shrine isn't real, how do all the people you find in the game world make it there?

Don't tell me that somehow Dark Firelink is in the past or future or something... That's ridiculous. You walk to it. There's no loading screen like Archdragon Peak... If anything is in a different time period, it's light Firelink Shrine...

I was so excited when I first found Untended Graves and looked at the Achievement art because it kind of looked like maybe I had found the Firelink Shrine from the original Dark Souls... Only to go in and discover all 5 Lord thrones in there.

This makes no sense...

Insult to injury there's a 3rd copy of the damn Firelink Shrine and all 5 thrones when you go to the Kiln of the First Flame...WTF is that Firelink Shrine all about?

Why do we need 15 thrones for the same 5 Lords??

Honest opinion:
This isn't supposed to make sense... The devs were looking for ways to increase the number of zones visited during the game and said, "what if we include like several almost exact Firelink Shrines in the game with different lighting? It will be cheap to implement and videogame nerds will be scratching their heads about what it all means for YEARS, like that cool pendant we had in Dark Souls 1..."

There's no loading/warp between Irithyll and Anor Londo either. Yet Irithyll was for sur enot there in DS1. Worlds are merging together, to the point of being physically connected.

 

[Nephtes]

There's no loading/warp between Irithyll and Anor Londo either. Yet Irithyll was for sur enot there in DS1. Worlds are merging together, to the point of being physically connected.

I disagree, there was definitely a city at the base of Anor Londo in DS1... Just because you didn't visit it in that game doesn't mean it wasn't there.

OR Irithyl was built up around Anor Londo after the events of Dark Souls 1... Which took place at least 5 cycles ago...

 

[Orthogonal]

I could have sworn that I once saw the lore on the Nameless King boss soul literally say that that he was the first born son of Gwyn (from a streamer I think). It now just implies that he is as the "god of war". Did they change it or am I just making it up in my head?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

People really love Flann. Probably more than Solaire. I had no idea. Sorry for ruining the thread.

 

[Dimmle]

Don't tell me that somehow Dark Firelink is in the past or future or something... That's ridiculous. You walk to it. There's no loading screen like Archdragon Peak... If anything is in a different time period, it's light Firelink Shrine...

I was so excited when I first found Untended Graves and looked at the Achievement art because it kind of looked like maybe I had found the Firelink Shrine from the original Dark Souls... Only to go in and discover all 5 Lord thrones in there.

This makes no sense...

Honest opinion:
This isn't supposed to make sense... The devs were looking for ways to increase the number of zones visited during the game and said, "what if we include like several almost exact Firelink Shrines in the game with different lighting? It will be cheap to implement and videogame nerds will be scratching their heads about what it all means for YEARS, like that cool pendant we had in Dark Souls 1..."

This can't be your first hang-up with world cohesion and logic in Dark Souls. Traveling into the past through physical space isn't anything new for the Souls series.

 

[Kai Dracon]

I thought the general idea going around was like this:

1. You wake up in the cemetery when unkindled are being summoned from the ashes of dead hollows. You go down to find people are setting up shop in Firelink shrine and trying to get a new Flame Party started. (Time to set some guys on fire.)

2. You warp out to Lothric, but it turns out the guys you gotta set on fire are in different time/space locations as Lothric is pulling pieces of realm together from all over.

3. Eventually by exploring Lothric enough you wrap back around to the cemetary and Firelink when they were still dark, before the unkindled were summoned. Making the opening of the game and the active Firelink some point in the future relative to the entire rest of the game.

 

[Nephtes]

This can't be your first hang-up with world cohesion and logic in Dark Souls. Traveling into the past through physical space isn't anything new for the Souls series.

Name one other time in a Souls game where you time warp with out a loading screen...

Even dragon memories in DS2 had loading screens..

I also kind of feel like Firelink Shrine at the Kiln of the First Flame is SUPPOSED to be the original Firelink Shrine...

There is a cliff directly out the front and looking off to the left you can see a ruined city which could be the Undead Burg...reimagined in Next Gen Graphics...

There's no way geographically the other Firelink Shrines can be the one from the original game.

 

[Dimmle]

Name one other time in a Souls game where you time warp with out a loading screen...

Even dragon memories in DS2 had loading screens..

Bloodborne DLC does it.

A loading screen maintains your immersion?

 

[Rurunaki]

Name one other time in a Souls game where you time warp with out a loading screen...

Even dragon memories in DS2 had loading screens..

The light firelink would most likely be the metaphysical firelink. As to why the npcs you meet can be seen there can also be explained as to how you were there in the first place. It's pretty much Limbo from my interpretation; a place where lost souls converge. There's no direct physical connection to the rest of the worldz The dark firelink would be the real firelink where the "physical" exists.

 

[Noray]

I thought the general idea going around was like this:

1. You wake up in the cemetery when unkindled are being summoned from the ashes of dead hollows. You go down to find people are setting up shop in Firelink shrine and trying to get a new Flame Party started. (Time to set some guys on fire.)

2. You warp out to Lothric, but it turns out the guys you gotta set on fire are in different time/space locations as Lothric is pulling pieces of realm together from all over.

3. Eventually by exploring Lothric enough you wrap back around to the cemetary and Firelink when they were still dark, before the unkindled were summoned. Making the opening of the game and the active Firelink some point in the future relative to the entire rest of the game.

This is what I'm going with even though it doesn't satisfy me completely. I wish it was a moment like finding the Old Hunter Workshop that actually makes the world make MORE sense, rather than less.

 

[Nephtes]

The light firelink would most likely be the metaphysical firelink. As to why the npcs you meet can be seen there can also be explained as to how you were there in the first place. It's pretty much Limbo from my interpretation; a place where lost souls converge. There's no direct physical connection to the rest of the worldz The dark firelink would be the real firelink where the "physical" exists.

So light Firelink Shrine is the island from LOST?
Shit, now I need to go find the Wheel and the hatch...

I wish it was a moment like finding the Old Hunter Workshop that actually makes the world make MORE sense, rather than less.

This is what I'm saying... The moment of finding Dark Firelink Shrine is cheapened the moment you see it has all 5 thrones.

Some subtle difference would have gone a long way for me... like maybe it has 4 thrones or no thrones or something...

Like I said above... I think it's a method for From Software to get more zones in the game on the cheap.

 

[Easy_D]

Lordran + Drangleic = Lardric = Lothric. This is totally canon.

It's very likely that the Profaned Capital is at least a part and/or different "version" of Drangleic.



Well if we assume that to properly link the fire, you need to infuse it with souls, especially the Lords', that didn't happen in DS3. You only have mere cinders of lords that previously linked the fire already.

Besides, the "unfit even to be cinder" in the intro may refer to the fact that you're an undead who failed to link the fire previously, but it may also mean you're doomed to fail anyway.

Regardless, it's likely that it's a pointless battle, the flame is bound to fade at some point IMO.

Clearly Irythill is built on top of Majula and the Crofaned Capital is secretly Shulva, which means Yhorm is one of the two giants in the cave in the Black Gulch.

 

[Noray]

Like I said above... I think it's a method for From Software to get more zones in the game on the cheap.

You must have a pretty low opinion of Fromsoft if you think they'd really throw a monkey wrench into the cohesion / lore of the world just to insert one more boss. We find the Coiled Sword Fragment there and the Firekeeper Eyes. Not for nothing! It's just super opaque.

 

[Raist]

I disagree, there was definitely a city at the base of Anor Londo in DS1... Just because you didn't visit it in that game doesn't mean it wasn't there.

OR Irithyl was built up around Anor Londo after the events of Dark Souls 1... Which took place at least 5 cycles ago...

You literally walk between an area in broad daylight, to an area with a massive eclipsed moon, back to daylight and then suddenly complete darkness. And finally a sunset and to wrap it up an eclipsed sun.
It's quite obvious that something funny, more than just architectural changes, is going on.

 

[Kai Dracon]

In Dark Souls 2, you can stand in Majula and look at clear skies to the horizon in all directions, including over Drangleic Castle. From there you can walk to the castle without loading screens and when you come out the mouth of a tunnel, it's night time over the castle in a thunderstorm. It's not like Bloodborne where a plot event changes the global time of day.

As for Firelink in DSIII, the ground around the fire itself with the rings in the ground look like Firelink from DS1. It's everything else that has been built up around it since then. I think at this point everything boils down to, reality in this universe is fragmented and shifting. Space distorts, things rise and fall, stretch and compress, dragging embedded sections of the environment with them.

 

[Edzi]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Fromsoft if you think they'd really throw a monkey wrench into the cohesion / lore of the world just to insert one more boss. We find the Coiled Sword Fragment there and the Firekeeper Eyes. Not for nothing! It's just super opaque.

Yeah, I don't understand how some people think From could just throw something that big in there without having put thought behind it, especially considering their track record for that kind of stuff is pretty good. Still, I shouldn't be too surprised considering the some of the theories here...

It's definitely the most baffling area of the game though. Champion Gundyr seems to imply it's in the past, but the broken coiled sword fragment doesn't make sense if it was there in the past, since we find it whole and embedded in Gundyr when we first start the game.

 

[Nephtes]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Fromsoft if you think they'd really throw a monkey wrench into the cohesion / lore of the world just to insert one more boss. We find the Coiled Sword Fragment there and the Firekeeper Eyes. Not for nothing! It's just super opaque.

Please... As a software developer, I know a thing or two about reusing code and assets to pad out a release on the cheap...

And if you think From Software is above this practice... Explain Dark Souls 1's Asylum Demon and Stray Demon...

Or even better Dark Souls 2's repeat use of the Orste--- I mean "Old Dragonslayer" as a boss fight...

Go on. I'll wait...

 

[Orthogonal]

I thought the general idea going around was like this:

1. You wake up in the cemetery when unkindled are being summoned from the ashes of dead hollows. You go down to find people are setting up shop in Firelink shrine and trying to get a new Flame Party started. (Time to set some guys on fire.)

2. You warp out to Lothric, but it turns out the guys you gotta set on fire are in different time/space locations as Lothric is pulling pieces of realm together from all over.

3. Eventually by exploring Lothric enough you wrap back around to the cemetary and Firelink when they were still dark, before the unkindled were summoned. Making the opening of the game and the active Firelink some point in the future relative to the entire rest of the game.

Why would we find Andre's hammer there then? To me it implies he died there long ago and long before the Dark Firelink.

 

[Edzi]

Please... As a software developer, I know a thing or two about reusing code and assets to pad out a release on the cheap...

And if you think From Software is above this practice... Explain Dark Souls 1's Asylum Demon and Stray Demon...

Or even better Dark Souls 2's repeat use of the Orste--- I mean "Old Dragonslayer" as a boss fight...

Go on. I'll wait...

This isn't even close to being the same thing, come on. This is an area that has serious lore ramifications, and it appears THREE times in completely different states. Miyazaki has shown that he typically has a reason behind things like this, and it's odd that you're adamant about it just being there because of lazy devs.

Oh, and you're not the only one with a CS/dev background, so get out of here with that "As a dev I know why From did ____" mentality since it has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Easy_D]

Why would we find Andre's hammer there then? To me it implies he died there long ago and long before the Dark Firelink.

Because Andre hasn't risen yet, there's no attending Fire Keeper, just that creepy handmaiden there, implying the bell hasn't rung yet. Though this implies that he's unkindled, but why would he be someone who got the lord souls collected and failed to light the first flame like the player character? And if he somehow is, why would he be a blacksmith instead of trying to get the Lords of Cinders to place their collective butts on the thrones?

Maybe Dark Firelink is the future, or an alternate world bleeding into the current world, while occupying the same physical space as the regular Firelink. The Champion Gundyr text implies it being in the past though.

Anyway, I'd say the three are Past (Or alternate world), Present and Future, why you have to go to the future when things are at their most fucked to re-link the flame is a damn mystery though. It also makes no sense for the flame to actively try to fight you if you're there to link the flame and haven't gotten any triggers for any of the other endings.

 

[Raist]

Ludleth is "from" the dark firelink shrine. He pretty much states so when you talk to him after finding the firekeeper eyes. He also mentions at some point that he willed himself a lord of cinder, linked the flame and "painted a new vision".

To me this means than the first FS is "his vision" in a different time/place, that he recreated pretty much 1:1. There is no direct connection to Lothric because he was not from there, neither did he ever go there. And it's likely a different world too.

 

[Rurunaki]

So light Firelink Shrine is the island from LOST?
Shit, now I need to go find the Wheel and the hatch...



This is what I'm saying... The moment of finding Dark Firelink Shrine is cheapened the moment you see it has all 5 thrones.

Some subtle difference would have gone a long way for me... like maybe it has 4 thrones or no thrones or something...

Like I said above... I think it's a method for From Software to get more zones in the game on the cheap.

Why not? Reality is distorted in Soulsverse. Who's to say that each fire keeper does not create her own dimension pocket of a Fire shrine? Only that the shrine is based on a previous location i.e the old workshop in BB. Plus the most important NPC in the shrine imo is the handmaiden as to how she can exist on both shrine.

 

[Auctopus]

Please... As a software developer, I know a thing or two about reusing code and assets to pad out a release on the cheap...

And if you think From Software is above this practice... Explain Dark Souls 1's Asylum Demon and Stray Demon...

Or even better Dark Souls 2's repeat use of the Orste--- I mean "Old Dragonslayer" as a boss fight...

Go on. I'll wait...

Pack that "I'm a dev..." shit away.

 

[Easy_D]

Ludleth is "from" the dark firelink shrine. He pretty much states so when you talk to him after finding the firekeeper eyes. He also mentions at some point that he willed himself a lord of cinder, linked the flame and "painted a new vision".

To me this means than the first FS is "his vision" in a different time/place, that he recreated pretty much 1:1. There is no direct connection to Lothric because he was not from there, neither did he ever go there. And it's likely a different world too.

Wouldn't it make more sense that the light Firelink is his vision? Maybe his power is keeping it going, he's the only lord who seems to be there by his own will, Dark Firelink is what "is" whereas the Light Firelink is Ludleth's vision, separated from the world, meanwhile, the real Firelink is dark because the lords abandoned their thrones.

 

[Nephtes]

Ludleth is "from" the dark firelink shrine. He pretty much states so when you talk to him after finding the firekeeper eyes. He also mentions at some point that he willed himself a lord of cinder, linked the flame and "painted a new vision".

To me this means than the first FS is "his vision" in a different time/place, that he recreated pretty much 1:1. There is no direct connection to Lothric because he was not from there, neither did he ever go there. And it's likely a different world too.

If Ludleth is from Dark Firelink ... Then he was from Lothric...

Dark Firelink Shrine connects to Untended Graves which connects to Garden of the Consumed King which connects to High Wall of Lothric which connects to Lothric Castle...