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Dark Souls 3 Story and Lore Discussion [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
- Start date
Also caught a "couple."
Ghost on the left is the Dancer. Ghost on the right is Vordt. That's them leaving Irithyll back in the past before that went crazy because of the Pontiff''s rings in Lothric.
Reposting for new page.
Maybe there's some connection, I guess. But that would matter more for DS2's storyline than DS3.
Anyway why do people think that Gwyn banished his first born? I keep reading that.
Ghost on the left is the Dancer. Ghost on the right is Vordt. That's them leaving Irithyll back in the past before that went crazy because of the Pontiff''s rings in Lothric.
Yeah I'm not sure what you're talking about...
I believe the sun's first born ring descrption says it elong to Gwyn's first son who was banched from the annals of history for doing something terrible, allying with the dragons possibly. Also, his statue is removed from Anor Londo since you can see Gwyn's and Gwynevere's and an empty "slot" where it probably was before being removed.
So I just finished the game for the third time and linked the fire since it was my only achievement left. I didn't see the endings online so it was the first time I was watching it.
Maybe it was ecause I was wering the firelink set but that ending just seems t imply you just wait for someone else to either take your place or ussurp/let the fire fade.
You just sit there like the boss was doing.
I don't see it chaning it anything and you must do other stuff to get the other endings so don't believe this to be the "real" ending.
More Fun To Compute
Member
I mean, why do people think it's Gwyn who did.
From DS1's Sunlight Blade miracle:
It clearly happened after Gwyn linked the fire.
Dragonslayer Armor, Lorian's Leggings, Dancer's Guantlets and Golden Crown.
Ordinaryundone
Member
No, you definitely link the fire, the problem is that there just isn't any fire left. The world has gone Hollow (as evidenced by the giant Dark Sign in the sky) and whatever meager sustenance you could provide as fuel is only just going to slightly prolong the inevitable. Contrast it with the DS1 Link the Fire ending, where the flame pretty much explodes with life. Now it's just a tiny spark, you couldn't even get it to light up properly.
I think it's meant to be a twist of sorts; in DS1 (and presumably 2) Linking the Fire actually WAS the key to saving the world. Sure you are mislead by Frampt and have to sacrifice yourself but the evidence is there: If you want the world to keep going the way it is you Link the Fire and save the day. So come DSIII, you are right back at it. Link the Fire, save the day! But its becoming more and more clear that there just isn't really anything left to save, and if you ignore that to link it one more time you are left with the bitter realization that you sacrificed yourself for basically nothing.
I like both this theory (the text is pretty clear that the Son got up to a lot of stuff and didn't just disappear from history) and the language/naming based one that suggests Fina and Gwynievere are the same goddess under different names.
Orochinagis
Member
Faraam was killed in the comic, and later in DS2 game. The problem with his theory is referencing DS2, where DS3 ignored and put them for fanservice to put the old gear for the game, of course he was gotta tie faraam because the "god of war" title but still there are several faraam armor npcs you can find later in DS2, Faraam himself could have died before jumping in the dark chasm right after drangelic but studio B were uncertain with his fate.
Redesign was weird in some parts like the cathedral where the painting was removed totally and the land got bigger, DS1 anor londo is placed on a plateau sorrounded by a big wall , also where is everyone.
Dumb thing I just thought about: each Lord of Cinder we fight (not Ludleth) is a reference to one of the previous games.
Abyss Watchers: DS1. Artorias. Fighting/corrupted by the Abyss.
Yhorm the Giant: Demon's Souls. Storm Ruler.
Aldrich: Bloodborne. Japanese name is Eldritch. Connection to the deep/deep waters.
Princes: DS2. Royal figure convinced by a Scholar not to link the fire.
Abyss Watchers: DS1. Artorias. Fighting/corrupted by the Abyss.
Yhorm the Giant: Demon's Souls. Storm Ruler.
Aldrich: Bloodborne. Japanese name is Eldritch. Connection to the deep/deep waters.
Princes: DS2. Royal figure convinced by a Scholar not to link the fire.
Has there been any discussion on the Untended Graves area and the "dark" Firelink Shrine? I'm really curious about it and why the developers decided to include it in the game behind a hidden wall, in an optional area.
Also, what about the Eyes of the Shrinemaiden hidden in "dark" Firelink? Are they a callback to the Lady in Black and Demon's Souls, since the corpse's face is covered in wax?
Also, what about the Eyes of the Shrinemaiden hidden in "dark" Firelink? Are they a callback to the Lady in Black and Demon's Souls, since the corpse's face is covered in wax?
Orochinagis
Member
Abyss watchers covenant is also a reference for the Forest covenant (and the bellbros) and share the same mechanic of defending the forest from people who is not part of the covenant, also farron warriors got the same fate as artorias of getting corrupted by the darkness, killing their former brothers in the process.
Lotric fate shares similar same fate as oolacile as being influenced by the serpents too
Firekeepers became blind by the darkness as a side effect looking at current firekeeper made them more docile and less autonomous compared to the Hemerald Herald or the firekeepers in Dark Souls 1. But it looks like they are not supossed to be blind on first place, someone took their eyes of the first firekeeper and made them blind on purpose so the whole dark ritual infusion may be a trick to fool the firekeepers to not let them seek another alternatives or see the world in dark which is technically the only way to end the age of fire.
I know yet the comic went with the ideas of Dark Souls 2
More Fun To Compute
Member
The firelink shrine keeper in the original was muted because she feared being tempted into saying something evil. In 3 they are blinded so they don't see anything which might tempt them to do something evil. It's symbolism from the three wise monkeys.
Oh, got ya. No clue.
Yes, I know. But you just sit there slowly burning away your souls to link the fire. Nothing stops another unkindle from comming and fighting you, right?
In my ***HEAD CANON*** you become the new "soul of cinder", after all, you get showered in the ashes of the previous lords who linked the fire and the princes.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
Ghost on the left is the Dancer. Ghost on the right is Vordt. That's them leaving Irithyll back in the past before that went crazy because of the Pontiff''s rings in Lothric.
Holy shit! I never thought anything of it. Awesome.
I like this as well. Lot of stuff coming back around in DS3.
Running into a ng+ game today again, and this time I remembered to kill everyone at firelink to see if I would get anything interesting
The most interesting tidbit I got was from Karla's ashes
So this seems like a reference somewhat at her being a fragment of manus, possibly the last one ? Considering she also teaches you dark pyromancy
The most interesting tidbit I got was from Karla's ashes
So this seems like a reference somewhat at her being a fragment of manus, possibly the last one ? Considering she also teaches you dark pyromancy
Orochinagis
Member
Yep, thanks Way of White.
I wonder what sentiment Karla represents, too bad the children of the abyss plot wasnt taken in consideration for DS3 setting, and no, is not dark pyromancy but Hexes.
Let's hope From's next game won't have a deaf one cuz the conversation are gonna be awkward
- HELLO I AM YOUR [level giver] I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THE PLOT
- h-hi I have some so
- WHAT
Oh right, my bad. Well that kinda reinforces the thing even more.
- HELLO I AM YOUR [level giver] I AM HERE TO TELL YOU THE PLOT
- h-hi I have some so
- WHAT
Oh right, my bad. Well that kinda reinforces the thing even more.
Empty Space
Member
It seems likely that Karla is Zullie the Witch whose referenced in Alva's armor description multiple times in Dark Souls 2. She claims to be old and Alva invades the player right before Irithyll Dungeon titled Seeker of the Spurned. Alva's old title was the Wayfarer and he did fall in love with Alva. Based on what little we know Zullie seemed to be a child of Manus. Its assumed that there are/were seven fragments corresponding with the deadly sins, but how Elanna fits that pattern I can't really understand. She was all about fear and that isn't really a deadly sin. Although she come to have pride in the Ivory King, maybe pride was her sin?
More Fun To Compute
Member
The fair lady was deaf and blind I think but not mute. Also a fire keeper.
Orochinagis
Member
Yep, Karla is also unaffected by Dark tomes and can read them with any consecuences since she already embraced the Dark compared to the miracle and pyromancy trainers who are afraid of reading them because reading the tomes will lead them to the Dark and end them hollow.
I dont think Zullie was a child of the dark, just fell in love for Alva but Alva fell in love for the princess
Fair lady was functional before she sucked all the poison on blightown, then she turned deaf and blid after =(
Empty Space
Member
The SotFS changes at least to me make it look like they wanted to imply that Zullie was the embodiment of envy. Zullie jealous of Alva's devotion to Saint Serrata and attempted to corrupt him to acquire his powerful soul. She apparently eventually does, but they both change each other seemingly for the better. Not too unlike Alsanna and the Ivory Kings relationship. Combining those deliberate changes in SotFS item descriptions, Alva's invasion in Dark Souls 3 and title change, and the description of Karla's ashes it seems to be the case. Who knows?
Orochinagis
Member
Got envy cuz She love him too and tried to sabotage his plan but ended helping him, I wish their history was more elaborated but I heard the comics are kinda apart from the main game. You can also get invaded by someone similar to zullie in DkS2 in the gutter but is not her I think.
Adding up she was a witch so of course the church and society were mad at zullie making her an outcast so thats would explain her behavior
So Yhorm is not one of the DS2 giants with an asshole for a face? I totally didnt expect that tbh..also his fight is awful.
Yeah its weird.
Gonna say realistically its hard to portray such changes accurately..or its just fanservice lol
Yeah its weird.
Gonna say realistically its hard to portray such changes accurately..or its just fanservice lol
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Was brainstorming through some of the lore and i ended up doing this sort of timeline of events. This is my own speculation though, consider nothing as a fact.
Gwynevere and the Kingdom of Lothric
- Gwynevere leaves Anor Londo alongside other deities and eventually arrives on the kingdom of Lothric. She marries King Oceiros, becomes Queen of Lothric and continues to be revered as a goddess of bounty and fertility.
- Gwynevere gives birth to twins, Lorian and Lothric. Lothric is born with a curse becoming a frail and shriveled child. They are both raised being told of their destiny to link the Fire and become Lords of Cinder.
- The first of the Scholars of the Grand Archives becomes a private mentor of Prince Lothric. He begins to doubt about linking the Fire and shares his doubts with the Prince.
- Prince Lorian embraces his brother's curse as a way to ease his burden. The curse leaves Lorian mute and crippled.
- Gertrude, one of Gwynevere's children receives a visit from a Primordial Serpent, which she describes as an "Angel". Sometime after this encounter she loses her sight and voice. She estabilishes a new religion based around these "angelic" beings but it is seen as a heresy. For this, Gertrude is imprisoned in the Grand Archives.
- Oceiros discovers the worship of Seath the Scaless done by the Scholars in the Grand Archives and becomes fascinated with Dragons. He goes mad while becoming one and begins to be known as the Consumed King.
- Gwynevere dissappears shortly after giving birth to her youngest son, Ocelotte.
- A civil war begins between the Lothric army and the Winged Knights, believers of the "Angels".
- The twin princes, convinced that linking the Fire will fix nothing and only delay the inevitable, retreats to their castle and wait for the flames to fade.
I will post the rest later.
Gwynevere and the Kingdom of Lothric
- Gwynevere leaves Anor Londo alongside other deities and eventually arrives on the kingdom of Lothric. She marries King Oceiros, becomes Queen of Lothric and continues to be revered as a goddess of bounty and fertility.
- Gwynevere gives birth to twins, Lorian and Lothric. Lothric is born with a curse becoming a frail and shriveled child. They are both raised being told of their destiny to link the Fire and become Lords of Cinder.
- The first of the Scholars of the Grand Archives becomes a private mentor of Prince Lothric. He begins to doubt about linking the Fire and shares his doubts with the Prince.
- Prince Lorian embraces his brother's curse as a way to ease his burden. The curse leaves Lorian mute and crippled.
- Gertrude, one of Gwynevere's children receives a visit from a Primordial Serpent, which she describes as an "Angel". Sometime after this encounter she loses her sight and voice. She estabilishes a new religion based around these "angelic" beings but it is seen as a heresy. For this, Gertrude is imprisoned in the Grand Archives.
- Oceiros discovers the worship of Seath the Scaless done by the Scholars in the Grand Archives and becomes fascinated with Dragons. He goes mad while becoming one and begins to be known as the Consumed King.
- Gwynevere dissappears shortly after giving birth to her youngest son, Ocelotte.
- A civil war begins between the Lothric army and the Winged Knights, believers of the "Angels".
- The twin princes, convinced that linking the Fire will fix nothing and only delay the inevitable, retreats to their castle and wait for the flames to fade.
I will post the rest later.
FF Seraphim
Member
Was Sunbroing it at the princes and decided to look around the room... There are angel feathers all near the bed. Did anyone else catch that?
Kamina
Golden Boy
What are you talking there? Faraam the war god doesn't make an appearence in DS2, what you mean is just some undead wearing the Forossa Lion Kinght Armor.
StoppedInTracks
Member
Hey guys is there a "to-do" list for 1000/1000 anywhere? I am talking about location of the Rings, Miracles, Covenants rewards etc.?
More Fun To Compute
Member
All of the ashes are called umbral ashes. Anyway the word means more that something is fully cast in shadow not that they are dark as in there is no source of light. It would be more equivalent to darkmoon than abyss or deep.
Oh, they are? :lol. I feel silly now. Though you could argue that Dark in the Souls universe is a direct result of Light since the flame brought disparity
.I beat it last week and still don't know what the hell happened in this game. I read around this thread but I'm even more confused. Serpent angels? I didn't see that at all.
1. What's the deal with Londor? They seem to be some sort of kingdom of sentient hollows. They want me to be their king for... reasons? Getting the flame for them does what?
2. What was Anri's importance to that storyline? She just seemed to be a random person. What was that sword they gave me? Why did stabbing her give me Dark Sigils? WHAT HAPPENED?
3. What are the unkindled? Are they all trying to link the fire? If there is a curse that turns everyone hollow, how are the unkindled unaffected?
4. Why is their time travel?
5. What's the deal with the dark sign sun? I suppose it's technically an eclipse, but is it supposed to represent the curse taking full effect or what?
1. What's the deal with Londor? They seem to be some sort of kingdom of sentient hollows. They want me to be their king for... reasons? Getting the flame for them does what?
2. What was Anri's importance to that storyline? She just seemed to be a random person. What was that sword they gave me? Why did stabbing her give me Dark Sigils? WHAT HAPPENED?
3. What are the unkindled? Are they all trying to link the fire? If there is a curse that turns everyone hollow, how are the unkindled unaffected?
4. Why is their time travel?
5. What's the deal with the dark sign sun? I suppose it's technically an eclipse, but is it supposed to represent the curse taking full effect or what?
I made a little post about Londor a few pages ago
I'm guessing they want a new lord, an unkindled, to usurp the first flame in their name so that they can basically have someone with the power of the flame as their king, ensuing an age that fits the Hollows who so far are dejected by almost every other living thing. You actually get a lot of information about Londor by following Yuria's questlines as almost all her items and the miracle book you get from her and the spells have a large array of interesting descriptions
I'm a little fuzzy with Anri. I just took it as someone who trusts you that you betray, an act of ultimate dickery which falls in line that hollows are themselves huge dicks, and need an appropriate ceremony/sacrifice to really show off said dickishness. But I don't have a more substantial answer. Anri's stuff tho, especially the sword, makes it so that he/she was someone who was incredibly "human" with the sword being influenced by luck. And hollows consider themselves the closest to what humanity is at it's core. But I can't give you a good answer
Unkindleds are basically revived ash of previous undead who failed to link the fire into a new body. It's why Siegward or Anri are also "from Astora" or "of Catarina" even tho these lands have long gone. An interesting theory which I might subscribe to is that people like Siegward or Anri ARE actually Siegmeyer or Oscar"reborn" into a new person. Same quirks, but this time more bent on success (since Siegmeyer failed spectactularily for instance). But the gist of it Unkindled are not just traditional undeads. They're reanimated ash in some sense.
"Time travel" is mostly a souls handwavy thing to justify the use of phantoms (which in lore, in souls 1 at least, are physical manifestation of heroes of the past), co op and the convoluted passage of time in the souls universe. There's no actual time travel as a mechanic, so to speak, but it's generally accepted that the passage of time is weird in souls and old things might just pop up as if the world itself reaches back to bring them back to the foreground.
Dark sign sun I take it mostly as the fire about to fade so darkness is about to overtake everything (since it's like a black hole swallowing light). Kinda goes also with the theme of the entropic death of the universe that's been going around since souls 1.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Yep, I think so too.
She's an undead, so is not weird for her to be alive after having a sword stabbed in her head, I guess.
Oh so she is. Man my eyes are shit I didn't even notice her.
Wonder how she feels that her husbando drove a weird stake through her heart
You healed her dark sigils, I'm sure she's OK.
FF Seraphim
Member
You mean through her head...
Stabbing in the head is enough for a betrayal really.
OniBarubary
Banned
I didn't see the Untended Graves as a different time, future or past, but as a previous iteration of the cycle where the fire wasn't linked and Firelink fell into the Abyss. I think Time and Space is less wonky and moreso that it moves in cycles so the same people and places keep coming back or new versions of them are built on old ones which explains why you see Dark Souls 1 and 2 NPCs and places. They keep coming back after every Fire Linking or Abyss Falling. When you get to the Kiln of the First Flame, it looks like masses of buildings just crushed together because it's a number of generations of buildings continuously falling over and over.
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