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[Praha]

Nintendo's business model has never involved winning over third parties, or "beating" the competition. It's making a profit on hardware. They'll never admit it but as long as they're making a profit on the hardware sold, they'll keep churning out hardware.

They do this by tapping into their committed base -- the 12 million who have bought a Wii U -- and servicing them, perhaps with the bare minimum, to help justify the purchase.

I mean, the Wii sold like crazy not because of the third-party support. Most Wii owners were playing Wii Sports exclusively.

They have a pretty sound business model in that regard. I don't think they'll ever lose their fanbase and they keep replacing those that do move on with younger generations who continue to embrace Pokemon, Mario Kart etc.

I think to Nintendo, third-party support would be seen as a bonus, but they create their hardware for Nintendo properties. And they build their hardware in a way that every one sold is sold at a profit for them.

Nothing will change. It has always been like this for Nintendo.

 

[Aostia]

I buy consoles for the games, at a price I perceive as right.

 

[killatopak]

If they can duplicate the 2nd year games of PS2 then I'll definitely buy NX.

 

[Undead]

If I can play Nintendo games with a traditional controller and not some gimmicky piece of shit then yes, I will buy it.
I enjoy Nintendo games but the stupid gimmicks put me off. They should focus on the games instead of the gimmicks.

 

[LiquidSolid]

? I don't get this.

It's like some people live in a bubble or think only because they themselves have other consoles (ps4/xbone) that Nintendo doesn't "need" third parties.

When the average person is buying a console and they compare the three, seeing which console has good exclusives but also has the huge third party games like CoD/Madden/etc is a HUGE thing.

Most average people do not buy all consoles, they pick or choose one and that's that. So having a console with little/no third party support is a huge no for many people and they'd rather buy the consoles that have that + good exclusives.

If Nintendo yet again goes the Wii U route they are going to be in for another rude awakening down the road when it doesn't sell well.

IF they want to get back on track they need:

1. Easy to develop for
2. Easy to port for
3. Reasonable price
4. Not focused on a gimmick.

It's not that Nintendo doesn't need third parties, it's that third parties don't need Nintendo. Nintendo fans have dreamed of somehow attracting the CoD/Madden/FIFA crowd to Nintendo for years and yet the Wii U got all three of those games and they sold terribly. That's the main reason why Wii U support was so terrible, making it easier to developer for or port to wouldn't have changed that. Fact is, Microsoft and Sony have built their brands around those franchises, so those are the systems those fans buy and nothing Nintendo does is going to change that.

That's why I think releasing hardware comparable to the PS4 and Xbone is a pointless endeavour for Nintendo. They're better off doing their own thing than chasing an audience their competitors already have a stranglehold on.

 

[Acerac]

I'm gonna buy it for the unique first party games cos I can get third party games on 3 other platforms already.

Really don't get this obsession with third parties.

Lots of people don't have computers.

 

[Champion]

Lots of people don't have computers.

So 2 other platforms.

I think the point is that the majority of whatever audience Nintendo still holds in the console market has no issue buying exclusives on their platform and going elsewhere for 3rd party content.

 

[random25]

To be quite honest, I really don't care much about Western 3rd party games. Only a few interest me, though I understand their importance in getting the American and European folks to buy the system. What I want Nintendo to get is the support of the Japanese 3rd party games and have them get localized, or a collaboration with them for a unique spin-off or a new title. If the NX has the 3DS-like support coming from Atlus, Bamco, Level-5, Square Enix and others, that would make me really happy.

 

[Samaritan]

Haven't cared about third-party support on a Nintendo home console since... well, since forever. Nintendo consoles are always about the exclusives. Even if they managed to get most or all 3rd parties onboard with the NX, I wouldn't suddenly play those games there. I'll continue to play them where I've been playing them for years: my PC.

 

[Dremark]

If they put out games I'm going to buy on the console I'll buy it. The more recent decisions they've made have raised the bar in how much this will actually take and how many if them will actually have to be in hand to justify the purchase as well.

 

[JustSomeone]

Even if it gets third party support, I already have a PC(and ps4, for the rare console only multiplatforms).
They will have to have an amazing first party support to make me buy the NX, much better than the lame support the wii and wiiu got

 

[Mithos]

You also forgot one step.

5. Have an audience willing to buy third party games.

That's the one thing that, even if the other four boxes are checked off, Nintendo will inherently lack at launch. It's up to Nintendo alone to cultivate such an audience before third parties like Bethesda or From Software will give a shit about the NX Platform.

I say this 5th step is 100% on thirdparties, their own making through the years.

I will not get game X because why invest myself in a series that will not get X2, X3 X4 down the line? (or are sub-par ports, old ports, full priced, no dlc etc etc)
Then I'd more likely to wait until generation shift and see that ah X, X2, X3 and X4 did come now I buy it (but then again then I probably switch gen) and thus that new gen will not get games because I didn't buy their games last gen.

 

[Terrell]

If Nintendo can't get at least Japanese 3rd-parties on board, nah, I think I'll be good sitting this next generation out. Western 3rd-parties, though? I'm not 100% sure what it will take to bring them in and won't pretend to know, either.

Then it would still be on Nintendo for not doing enough to attract 3rd party support. Building a console that can actually run what 3rd parties want to make is just the first step. Nintendo has to play ball with publishers in a way it probably never has, and how Sony and Microsoft have been doing.

Right now I'm leaning on the side of thinking the onus is on Nintendo to prove to 3rd parties that the kinds of games you see from EA or Ubisoft can sell on Nintendo consoles, and I honestly don't think 2016 Nintendo can do that. 1996 Nintendo perhaps.

Besides making its platform as accommodating as reasonably possible to western publishers, Nintendo would likely have to have a handful of first party hits appealing directly to adult western gamers. This doesn't mean sacrificing the image of Mario or Zelda or Pokemon, but it does mean diversifying. Nintendo's internal Japan game development teams are very unlikely to make games different from what they're making so it would have to work with western developers. Maybe give the ones it's already working with more autonomy, maybe let NOA and NOE be more than glorified localization houses. Sony has Santa Monica, Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, etc. At least a couple of Nintendo's equivalent games would have to be big hits too. Probably GoldenEye big.

Yeah, this is a pretty solid post and I'm not sure much more can be said on the subject.

It's up to Nintendo to create an environment for 3rd parties to sell software.

It's not just the quality of the hardware. They have to market the hardware to the right kind of consumer, first and foremost. That requires a 180 in 1st party content, marketing, and design.

I'm not convinced that even now, with all on the line, that they have the stomach to do what is required to draw in third party support.

Under Iwata, I unfortunately agree, there was a fundamental disconnect between 3rd-party desires from the development side and what Iwata was willing to offer them. Nintendo became an island unto itself under his watch, which worked to great financial success in 2006 but a whimper in 2012 that has led to the present-day situation.

Kimishima, though? I don't have the foggiest clue what he is and isn't capable of, but the terms "shrewd businessman" seem to be the key words people have used to describe him. And his first steps seem to be to begin the long task of dismantling the cult of cronyism at NCL, so...
It'll definitely be interesting to see Kimishima's Nintendo and how drastically it differs from Iwata's Nintendo and the less reliably detailed accounts of Yamauchi's Nintendo.

I think there's an implication that people sometimes give when they're criticizing Nintendo that suggests that, if they were to do things better, they would then turn around and buy their systems.

So I see where you're coming from, you're thinking "Well people keep criticizing Nintendo for weak hardware and not having third parties. How would people feel if Nintendo made an honest attempt at winning them over?"

In reality, these people are not waiting for an excuse to buy a Nintendo system. They have fundamental issues with Nintendo's whole approach to gaming. They might only like a few games or franchises from them. Getting a Nintendo system just doesn't make sense for them.

Nevertheless, these people who have very little interest in Nintendo end up doing a lot of very harsh criticism of them. I can understand why. There's a lot of evangelism of games, systems, etc that happens here and in the community at large. At E3 time, we all try to debate who won and we end up defending why we're not interested in things.

I've been through it on the other end with Sony stuff. I feel as though there are just as many if not more Sony fans/evangelists on the forum as there are for Nintendo. In the lead up to the PS4, I let myself be open to the possibility that this would be a system that I would be interested in. I did this because other people were raving about it, but it was a waste of time. I'm glad I didn't spend any significant amount of time hanging around PS4 threads complaining about how I wasn't interested in any of the games. I would have been right, but I wouldn't have been arguing in good faith. The fact is I have very significant disagreement with Sony's approach to gaming and it should have been no surprise that I would find their E3s lackluster. Even the memetic 2015 conference, it didn't do anything for me. Does it really make sense, after that conference, to complain that I wasn't impressed?

So in conclusion, I would recommend accounting for the fact that a lot of the people complaining about Nintendo aren't waiting to be converted. A symbolic gesture doesn't really mean much for them.

Yeah, there is likely some merit to that. I'm sure there are some who state this in good faith. I know I'm definitely in that camp now. Wii and Wii U are all I'm going to take of seeing no interest in Nintendo sating my personal needs as a gamer for a more diverse software library via 3rd-party efforts. If I see an improvement, I will consider differently, but while there's a possibility Nintendo can have at least Japanese 3rd-parties on board, I'll have to actually see the progress made to put my money down, at this point.

Nintendo's business model has never involved winning over third parties, or "beating" the competition. It's making a profit on hardware. They'll never admit it but as long as they're making a profit on the hardware sold, they'll keep churning out hardware.

I'm pretty sure that Yamauchi relished the idea of crushing competition. You don't sick an attack dog like Howard Lincoln to shame the rest of the American video game industry in front of a government hearing while being "uninterested" in besting your competitors. I don't think they would risk the blowback that they inevitably received (and can still be felt to this day, I might add) just because.

 

[Boombloxer]

No, because it hasn't happened since the N64.

 

[Chao]

People will find another excuse not to buy NX even if it's the most powerful console ever with the best third party support.

"Controller looks stupid", "my friends will think less of me", "yamauchi ate my homework in the 90s".

I know I will buy it for the exclusives.

 

[Asd202]

People treat this for-profit corporation real weird.

Preach it.

 

[RibMan]

Nintendo's business model has never involved winning over third parties, or "beating" the competition. It's making a profit on hardware. They'll never admit it but as long as they're making a profit on the hardware sold, they'll keep churning out hardware.

They do this by tapping into their committed base -- the 12 million who have bought a Wii U -- and servicing them, perhaps with the bare minimum, to help justify the purchase.

I mean, the Wii sold like crazy not because of the third-party support. Most Wii owners were playing Wii Sports exclusively.

They have a pretty sound business model in that regard. I don't think they'll ever lose their fanbase and they keep replacing those that do move on with younger generations who continue to embrace Pokemon, Mario Kart etc.

I think to Nintendo, third-party support would be seen as a bonus, but they create their hardware for Nintendo properties. And they build their hardware in a way that every one sold is sold at a profit for them.

Nothing will change. It has always been like this for Nintendo.

No.

The Wii sold over 100 million consoles. The Wii U sold less than 15 million consoles. The business is only sound if the Wii U made more money for Nintendo than the Wii, which as we all know thanks to publicly available information, is not the case.

In other words, the reliance on hardware profits and hardware profits alone is not a winning strategy. It's not working. Companies like Sony and Microsoft have known this for over a decade. This is why we are now living in this reality. It doesn't matter how dedicated the 'committed base' might be! In today's market, consumers have come to the conclusion that "you either get with the times or get out the door". People have never been more aware of advancements in technology and connectivity, so if you think you can slide through a global marketplace by just doing what worked in the 80's then you're in biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig trouble.

Third party support should never be seen as a "bonus". It should always be seen as one of the three pillars that build a successful console (hardware, software, relationships). Ignoring third parties because it worked that one time isn't smart. It's downright unthinkable in today's market. Time will tell what Nintendo does with the NX, but for the sake of the company, let's hope they realize that having third party support can only benefit them.

 

[KZObsessed]

Anything for my darling Ninty.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Does Nintendo really need 3rd party tho?

I would aim for more Nintendo games + work with Indie developers.

 

[Maztorre]

Who are all these imaginary people waiting for a Nintendo console to play high quality 3rd party ports? If customers are seriously interested in higher quality versions of multiplatform games, they will have either bought/built a PC by now to play these games at the highest possible settings, or simply opted for a PS4 for the better console versions of these titles.

There is absolutely no significant customer base that has been sitting out there waiting to buy FIFA/COD/Assassin's Creed etc on a Nintendo console, most of those customers have either made a decision on console hardware by now or have simply exited the potential market for console multiplatform games by opting for PC.

The idea that there is an untapped market for major 3rd parties is crazy when there are currently two platform holders that have made consoles that completely pander to these 3rd parties, and only one of those is really succeeding in the marketplace.

Nintendo's hardware goals should simply be making products that offer impressive performance at an attractive pricepoint that are easy and straightforward for 3rd parties to develop for. All of the hard work beyond that is with Nintendo's own software and actively using their IP, since that is easily their most powerful differentiator from their competitors. 2-3 successful movies featuring Mario or Zelda would do more for their market position than getting late ports of some EA software, as would making serious investments in building new studios internationally.

 

[lebowski4ever]

nothing would convince me to buy nintendo ever again...

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I see a couple people in here saying getting 3rd parties doesn't and shouldn't matter to Nintendo. Which says to me, they have no idea how game consoles make money. One of the biggest sources of income for a console (probably the biggest source for most consoles) is 3rd party licensing fees.

As for the people that say Nintendo will never get 3rd parties, that's a bunch of nonsense. The only reason they keep dropping Nintendo is because Nintendo keeps making hardware that makes it too difficult to make the games they want to make. N64? Cartidges were too small for high quality audio, and too expensive for publishers. GameCube? The discs were too small to fit big games, the controller had too few inputs for many control schemes, and the console lacked any online infrastructure. Wii? Way too weak, and the Wiimote forced alternative control schemes. Wii U? Same thing.

The moment Nintendo puts out a console that is in line with the competition enough that porting is easy and cheap, that isn't more than a half-decade late to the party, they'll support it. Because there's no real reason not to. Of course developers are going to drop Wii U when all the games they're working on won't run on it, and all the games they have available to put out are ports of games people are already buying on their 160 million 7-year-old consoles that are just about to be replaced in a year.

And if Nintendo were to decide to play with the big boys and actually fund some major exclusives (timed or otherwise) and get advertising deals, all the better.

 

[Neo-Saiyan]

Most hardcore Nintendo fans don't buy Nintendo consoles for 3rd party softwares, the last time I bought a 3rd party game was probably one of the wrestling games on N64

 

[Burai]

Hardware was never the issue for third parties.

Shitty dev tools, lack of coherent online infrastructure and a console that bombed out of the gate were far worse factors for third parties than a lack of power.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I think there's an implication that people sometimes give when they're criticizing Nintendo that suggests that, if they were to do things better, they would then turn around and buy their systems.

So I see where you're coming from, you're thinking "Well people keep criticizing Nintendo for weak hardware and not having third parties. How would people feel if Nintendo made an honest attempt at winning them over?"

In reality, these people are not waiting for an excuse to buy a Nintendo system. They have fundamental issues with Nintendo's whole approach to gaming. They might only like a few games or franchises from them. Getting a Nintendo system just doesn't make sense for them.

Nevertheless, these people who have very little interest in Nintendo end up doing a lot of very harsh criticism of them. I can understand why. There's a lot of evangelism of games, systems, etc that happens here and in the community at large. At E3 time, we all try to debate who won and we end up defending why we're not interested in things.

I've been through it on the other end with Sony stuff. I feel as though there are just as many if not more Sony fans/evangelists on the forum as there are for Nintendo. In the lead up to the PS4, I let myself be open to the possibility that this would be a system that I would be interested in. I did this because other people were raving about it, but it was a waste of time. I'm glad I didn't spend any significant amount of time hanging around PS4 threads complaining about how I wasn't interested in any of the games. I would have been right, but I wouldn't have been arguing in good faith. The fact is I have very significant disagreement with Sony's approach to gaming and it should have been no surprise that I would find their E3s lackluster. Even the memetic 2015 conference, it didn't do anything for me. Does it really make sense, after that conference, to complain that I wasn't impressed?

So in conclusion, I would recommend accounting for the fact that a lot of the people complaining about Nintendo aren't waiting to be converted. A symbolic gesture doesn't really mean much for them.

"People aren't trying to genuinely help Nintendo or give constructive criticism on how they have handled their place in the industry over 20+ years, they just want to irrationally hate because of pro Sony bias!"

Like, are you for real?

Yeah, there are people who would really not be interested in a Nintendo console at this point because their niche has already been filled in the marketplace for Nintendo to not appeal, but to say people simply have a bias against Nintendo and simply want to hate on them cause its trendy is just very annoying to hear over and over. Nintendo isn't some victim that needs to be defended from people who are trying to point out their flaws.

For me, i don't care about Nintendo's relationship with third parties or Nintendo aping the other consoles, cause i'd rather them stick with how they have been doing things software wise, i don't want a Nintendo box that can do everything my Playstation can do for example because i already have that.

I just want Nintendo to join the 21st century with some basic concepts like a normal controller and functioning online capabilities and account sharing instead of running their business from Kyoto like its 1985

 

[Haganeren]

There's another side of the coin, and that's Nintendo-like 3rd party games made specifically for the Nintendo audience fail too.

Nobody bought the family-friendly point & click puzzle game Zack & Wiki exclusive to Wii and made by Capcom.

But Shovel Knight and BEyond Good & Evil had their best success on Nintendo Console.
I think it depends, Zack & Wiki just doesn't please the NIntendo Crowds, it happens. All Nintendo games doesn't automatically achieve success either.

 

[Stilton Disco]

So would I buy a new Nintendo Console if they only half arse the much needed mending of third party support?

No, obviously, that would still be them fucking up.

Of course that wouldn't be why I'd be buying the system, it would be purely down to how many games I want get released on it.

Saying that, after the WiiU made me realise I'm just fed up with a huge number of their traditional franchises after 30 years of reinventing the same sorts of games over, and over, and over...

Without third parties getting on board, without more modern game design, competently constructed original narratives, and characters I can feel any kind of empathy with, I'm done.

You need third parties to be successful. That has always been the case, no matter how much the hardcore might screech "This is fine!" over the increasingly loud roar of flames.

Look at the market leaders in the mobile, console and PC spaces, iOS, Playstation, and Steam. What do they all have in common? They've all got the widest selection of games, and the most user friendly, consumer focused approach to giving people what they want.

And Nintendo has only ever had success when it offered more games and a better experience than anyone else too. That's what made the NES a success when it launched, that's what meant the DS trounced the PSP and why the Wii was such a success with the new casual audience looking for cheap, simple games that Nintendo could offer in greater numbers than anyone else. At least until the iPhone came along and offered them the same thing but bigger and better, with more games, more functional, user friendly tech and most importantly vastly more third party support for lower prices than either Nintendo home or handheld consoles ever could.

Third party support is absolutely vital. It is the only thing that can turn around the decline in sales, and no amount of profit margins and whaling can offset that decline forever.

Because WiiU sales are absolutely not the floor for how low numbers can and will go if Nintendo don't get their house in order and realise they've never been the biggest reason for their own success, that arrogant hubris is squeezing them out of every market, and will only lead to them leaving it entirely once they stop being able to make back the costs of creating new hardware and software.

 

[neurosisxeno]

They do this by tapping into their committed base -- the 12 million who have bought a Wii U -- and servicing them, perhaps with the bare minimum, to help justify the purchase.

Their lack of appeal outside of their base is a problem though. They aren't attracting many new fans. Most kids these days would rather have a Smartphone/Tablet for portable gaming, or a PS4/X1 for the games their friends are playing. As Nintendo's base audience ages they are not being replaced with younger fans, they are just disappearing. This explains the linear decrease in sales from the NES to the Wii U (excluding the outlier that was the Wii).

The simple fact is the mis-steps during the N64 gave Sony a perfect opening, and further mis-steps during the GC gave Sony a stranglehold on an entire generation of gamers, and the Xbox/Microsoft cemented themselves as the "mature" alternative. That left very little for Nintendo to influence, because although the GC was viewed as a "kids toy", it still didn't sell that great and most kids during that time were getting PS2's, and growing up playing Sony systems, 10-15 years later they are adults buying PS3's and PS4's, with minimal interest in Nintendo consoles. The DS/3DS/Portable segment of Nintendo will always get by because of Pokemon, but on the consoles side of things SSB\Mario\Mario Kart just don't have the draw they need.

If Nintendo can't have a really successful system, there's no way in another 10-15 years they have a console presence.

 

[MrT-Tar]

The problem is with the whole 'Nintendo needs to prove to third parties that certain games/genres can sell' is that third parties rarely seem to follow Nintendo's 'lead' in what genres to produce and whether to release on Nintendo platforms.

Take SRPGs on the 3DS. Nintendo has proven there is a market for them and released the best selling SRPG since Final Fantasy Tactics which was almost 20 years ago. In theory third parties should have leapt at the opportunity and we would have seen of new FFTA, Disgaea, Devil Survivor, Tactics Ogre, etc games. What did we actually get? Project X Zone, which was most likely already in development before FE:A set Media Create on fire and a halfhearted (the say the least) Langrisser. I have no doubt in my mind that Nintendo could somehow 'prove' that WRPGs or whatever could sell very well on NX and even that wouldn't be enough to attract support in the genre.

 

[Taker666]

Does Nintendo really need 3rd party tho?

I would aim for more Nintendo games + work with Indie developers.

They need mass market 3rd party.

Stuff like FIFA& Madden at a minimum in regards to sports, stuff like Star Wars/Marvel in regards to licensed games...and in an ideal world stuff like COD and GTA...and in Japan they need Square Enix titles (namely Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy).

They certainly don't need ALL 3rd party..but they need a few key titles.

I'd say EA is crucial to get onboard for the west... if nobody else else.

 

[deadscreensky]

I say this 5th step is 100% on thirdparties, their own making through the years.

I will not get game X because why invest myself in a series that will not get X2, X3 X4 down the line? (or are sub-par ports, old ports, full priced, no dlc etc etc)
Then I'd more likely to wait until generation shift and see that ah X, X2, X3 and X4 did come now I buy it (but then again then I probably switch gen) and thus that new gen will not get games because I didn't buy their games last gen.

I can't imagine this Nintendo-only gaming audience is even ten million people, worldwide. In a vast majority of cases these people aren't buying third party games on Nintendo (when available) because it's undoubtedly available elsewhere, better and/or cheaper.

Your excuse is also ignoring how much Nintendo has deliberately cultivated an audience that doesn't buy third party games, though various business (high licensing fees) and development (bad tools, slow and non-standard hardware) practices. The problem is, as stated, this audience nowadays is really tiny and not particularly profitable.

 

[Stilton Disco]

The problem is with the whole 'Nintendo needs to prove to third parties that certain games/genres can sell' is that third parties rarely seem to follow Nintendo's 'lead' in what genres to produce and whether to release on Nintendo platforms.

Take SRPGs on the 3DS. Nintendo has proven there is a market for them and released the best selling SRPG since Final Fantasy Tactics which was almost 20 years ago. In theory third parties should have leapt at the opportunity and we would have seen of new FFTA, Disgaea, Devil Survivor, Tactics Ogre, etc games. What did we actually get? Project X Zone, which was most likely already in development before FE:A set Media Create on fire and a halfhearted (the say the least) Langrisser. I have no doubt in my mind that Nintendo could somehow 'prove' that WRPGs or whatever could sell very well on NX and even that wouldn't be enough to attract support in the genre.

That's still Nintendo's fault though.

If anything, the fact that games in genres we know can be successful on Nintendo's hardware go elsewhere just show how incredibly fucking bad their third party negotiation skills and policies are.

If those games exist, and are going to other platforms, that's on them, end of.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Take SRPGs on the 3DS. Nintendo has proven there is a market for them and released the best selling SRPG since Final Fantasy Tactics which was almost 20 years ago. In theory third parties should have leapt at the opportunity and we would have seen of new FFTA, Disgaea, Devil Survivor, Tactics Ogre, etc games. What did we actually get? Project X Zone, which was most likely already in development before FE:A set Media Create on fire and a halfhearted (the say the least) Langrisser. I have no doubt in my mind that Nintendo could somehow 'prove' that WRPGs or whatever could sell very well on NX and even that wouldn't be enough to attract support in the genre.

It's worth noting, FE:A sold 1.79m units total, to an install base of 58.85m. That's not really lighting the platform ablaze. Also, as said above, if other companies would rather go elsewhere than follow Nintendo's lead, Nintendo must be really shitty at incentivizing them to do such or just not even trying.

 

[AniHawk]

That's still Nintendo's fault though.

If anything, the fact that games in genres we know can be successful on Nintendo's hardware go elsewhere just show how incredibly fucking bad their third party negotiation skills and policies are.

If those games exist, and are going to other platforms, that's on them, end of.

eh, srpgs are a different kind of story. there were kind of a lot of them on the ds from 2005-2010, including final fantasy tactics and disgaea. they don't happen to get made as much anymore though.

as far as nintendo's outreach goes, it can only go as far as the company willing to devote resources. teams might not be set up to work on games on the 3ds, or the international market they have in mind is on other platforms (even if the 3ds would be a great fit for a different kind of game). from my experience, i don't know what policies they have that inherently prevents third-parties from working with them. it also shouldn't be a negotiation to guarantee support unless it's for stuff they really want (i assume dragon quest and monster hunter were secured in this fashion). publishers have to want a certain market.

now first-party support is a different thing. once a publisher decides to put a game on the platform, there are certain things that can be done from any first-party. this can vary from region to region though, and support can be incredible or practically non-existent as a result.

 

[Xiao Hu]

I definitely won't buy it at launch if the prospect of having third party games, and I'm not even talking about the usual yearly iterations like CoD and AssCreed, is as dire as on the Wii U. I'm all for exclusives but don't expect me to drop yet another €300 for a product riddled with Mario/mushroom kingdom themed games that I don't enjoy anymore. At most I will bite at a substantial discount around €200> but I won't commit myself to Nintendo as I used to do.

 

[Stilton Disco]

eh, srpgs are a different kind of story. there were kind of a lot of them on the ds from 2005-2010, including final fantasy tactics and disgaea. they don't happen to get made as much anymore though.

as far as nintendo's outreach goes, it can only go as far as the company willing to devote resources. teams might not be set up to work on games on the 3ds, or the international market they have in mind is on other platforms (even if the 3ds would be a great fit for a different kind of game). from my experience, i don't know what policies they have that inherently prevents third-parties from working with them. it also shouldn't be a negotiation to guarantee support unless it's for stuff they really want (i assume dragon quest and monster hunter were secured in this fashion). publishers have to want a certain market.

True, but the fact that Nintendo isn't in those markets, especially when, as you pointed out, they've had historic presence and greater support in some previously, is still a failure on their part.

They've got no one to blame but themselves with third parties and lack of support for most game genres, as well as their increasingly niche place in the market because of it. The fact that they apparently are willing to aggressively pursue only a handful of franchises and let everything else suffer is pure incompetence and hubris in my eyes.

 

[BlackBanditSho]

crazy prediction time:

Several major 3rd parties will be back on the NX. Just not as you expect.

It is already known that Nintendo has internally overhauled their HD production workflow so we can expect to see many more games, quickly, and of all sizes, from primary Nintendo.

With NX potentially being easy to port to with console tech parity (rumored), creating games that run on NX shouldn't be a problem for larger or small devs.

So we'll see much more 3rd party support as transferring to the platform isn't a painful process.

However, what I think will work greatly in Nintendo's favor is allowing 3rd parties to utilize Nintendo IPs to make original product. With careful Nintendo oversight and curation, I suspect that we'll see Nintendo brands in surprising places.

Consider that Nintendo fans pretty much flock toward Nintendo games. You could put Madden or Fifa or CoD on the system, and fans just won't bite. They really do buy Nintendo for Nintendo.

So what happens when you let EA use the frostbite engine to make a Mario NBA or FIFA game with simplified rules and controls, but for all intents it's an all-star filled Nintendo IP NBA Jam/LIVE/Fifa?

UbiSoft has a helluva time pushing their games on the system? Fine. What happens when Nintendo works with them to make a Zelda offshoot with the foundation of an Assassin's Creed?

While Nintendo utilizes the treehouse to develop new original longer-baking IPs like Splatoon, or push out smart, shorter, tighter downloadable games like Captain Toad, Activision might be putting together a package with any character from Smash Bros.

Who knows?

Low risk for all parties involved, high return on Nintendo.

 

[AniHawk]

True, but the fact that Nintendo isn't in those markets, especially when, as you pointed out, they've had historic presence and greater support in some previously, is still a failure on their part.

They've got no one to blame but themselves with third parties and lack of support for most game genres, as well as their increasingly niche place in the market because of it. The fact that they apparently are willing to aggressively pursue only a handful of franchises and let everything else suffer is pure incompetence and hubris in my eyes.

sony and microsoft don't really do this either though. they also tend to go after the big and trendy stuff too. it's even more baffling when something like the science adventure series is kinda/sorta brought to fruition with the help of the 360 platform in japan, but microsoft does nothing to make it a more worldwide success. and it's not like siea likes showing a lot of love to japanese-based games from smaller studios.

 

[Stilton Disco]

sony and microsoft don't really do this either though. they also tend to go after the big and trendy stuff too. it's even more baffling when something like the science adventure series is kinda/sorta brought to fruition with the help of the 360 platform in japan, but microsoft does nothing to make it a more worldwide success. and it's not like siea likes showing a lot of love to japanese-based games from smaller studios.

All that says to me is that's there's definitely room for Nintendo to take advamtage of and actively steal away those types of games.

It doesn't matter if no one is doing a great job at securing all these 'smaller' third parties and ensuring a fertile market for them if Nintendo is still the worst at it.

 

[Malakai]

True, but the fact that Nintendo isn't in those markets, especially when, as you pointed out, they've had historic presence and greater support in some previously, is still a failure on their part.

They've got no one to blame but themselves with third parties and lack of support for most game genres, as well as their increasingly niche place in the market because of it. The fact that they apparently are willing to aggressively pursue only a handful of franchises and let everything else suffer is pure incompetence and hubris in my eyes.

That is some BS, besides F-Zero and Metroid, what other franchises that Nintendo let "suffer"?

 

[AniHawk]

All that says to me is that's there's definitely room for Nintendo to take advamtage of and actively steal away those types of games.

It doesn't matter if no one is doing a great job at securing all these 'smaller' third parties and ensuring a fertile market for them if Nintendo is still the worst at it.

i don't really think they are. i think microsoft is far and away the worst at it.

 

[Stilton Disco]

That is some BS, besides F-Zero and Metroid, what other franchises that Nintendo let "suffer"?

We were talking about third parties, specifically their apparent willingness to pursue a handful of titles like DQ and MonHun while generally seeming indifferent to broader world wide market trends and even games in genres that already found success on their platform.

Saying that, I've been a Nintendo fan for 30 years, there's a hell of a lot of their own games besides F-Zero and Metroid they've stopped giving a shit about over the decades. I mean despite the fact it's had recent releases bearing the name, the Paper Mario series has effectively been handled like shite since at the Wii, and I'd be amazed if we get another game after Colour Splash. Star Fox is probably dead too after Zero, and that was treated more as a vehicle to try and justify the Gamepad than as a proper Star Fox game.

i don't really think they are. i think microsoft is far and away the worst at it.

It's difficult to judge. MS certainly do a better job at maintaining 3rd party support, even though their parity policies are shitty, their current hardware was definitely not designed with modern games in mind, they don't give a fuck about anywhere outside the US, and ID@xbox seems to be all talk and no trousers, but still, they're getting stuff out there, even weirdly Japanese titles that are obviously going to bomb, so I'm inclined to give them the edge. Damned close though.

You are right that Microsoft are about as shit at this generally as Nintendo, and I honestly think they'd be in the same boat if it weren't for coasting on the momentum left over from the 360.

The difference is, I've never given a rats arse about Xbox, whereas I deeply care about Nintendo's games and continued existence, so their fucking up constantly deeply pisses me off.

 

[TheJoRu]

I don't think there will be that much third-party support on the NX. What you'll see is a larger focus on increasing the volume of first-party software, as well as partnering with third-parties such as Square Enix, Capcom and SEGA to bring exclusives or special versions of their games to NX in order to diversify and further increase the amount of software.

If they manage to do this and the games are good then I will buy the system, otherwise not. Having lots of third-parties onboard would be great, but ultimately it's going to be a system you primarily want to use to play Nintendo, so it's that they deliver on that that will be important to me.

 

[AniHawk]

It's difficult to judge. MS certainly do a better job at maintaining 3rd party support, even though their parity policies are shitty, their current hardware was definitely not designed with modern games in mind, they don't give a fuck about anywhere outside the US, and ID@xbox seems to be all talk and no trousers, but still, they're getting stuff out there, even weirdly Japanese titles tat are obviously going to bomb, so I'm inclined to give them the edge. Damned close though.

You are right that Microsoft are about as shit at this generally as Nintendo, and I honestly think they'd be in the same boat if it weren't for coasting on the momentum left over from the 360.

The difference is, I've never given a rats arse about Xbox, whereas I deeply care about Nintendo's games and continued existence, do their fucking up constantly deeply pisses me off.

i don't know what microsoft is doing to get some of that japanese support westward. it might be coming through the microsoft of japan side, which has always been way more helpful than the american side with its ridiculously high minimum order quantities, publishing guarantees, and parity clauses. nintendo is far, far better at that smaller level. i wouldn't say any of the american companies are standouts. valve is great though.

 

[anothertech]

I think people want third party support because that means the company itself is invested in making deals with devs and getting more value out of the hardware for its customers and user base.

When it fails to do this, it shows a certain disregard for devs and users in the same way.

Hardware be damned, the Nintendo fan base just wants the system to play games. If they fail to secure third parties, we'll still buy it for the first party titles, but it will be no less a slap in the face.

 

[forknknife]

The whole promise is flawed.
To think that a powerful Nintendo console will bring 3rd parties.
To think that a powerful Nintendo console with 3rd parties would sell.
A lot of people on gaf saying they would buy it if it was powerful and had 3rd parties don't mean it. Why ? Because it's simple logic. If they want 3rd parties, they already bought another platform. What's the incentive for them to change platform ? None.

People didn't waited Nintendo to buy a "powerful" console with 3rd parties. What people are saying is it's in Nintendo's best interest to shove millions, even billions, to offer the same as Sony and Microsoft. What's even the point ? This segment of the market is already in the hands of Sony and Microsoft. What would be the point to fight hard to get the rests of this segment of the market ?

I don't agree. If Nintendo manages to make a console significantly more powerful than the neo and secure a contract with some key 3rd parties to make the definitive versions of their multiplatform games for NX (better graphics, running better) then I'm sure many people would really consider getting an NX instead of a neo. I know I would.

Nintendo would need to of course do many other things right, though, like improve their online and change their branding, marketing, etc.

So, it seems impossible the way Nintendo has been running things until now but i really think that they could and should do it. It's risky business but i also think this is the right time for them to try this since the neo release probably means that the ps5 is still 4 years away at least so, if Nintendo gets ahead of the competition now, they will have que a bit of time to claim back some of the mind share they have lost.

 

[Haganeren]

Another stuff about Nintendo console is that developpers have to deal about fighting at the same place as Nintendo software. How would a new Third Party Competitive TPS on Wii U when there is already Splatoon available ? How can anyone make a plateformer 2D with New Super Mario Bros in front of it. Even Donkey Kong suffer from that !

It's a lot harder than it seems and there is no solution for that for Nintendo.

Well, anyway, i don't really see Nintendo conquer the whole market again anyway. I think they still should try to won the 3rd party as Call of Duty on Wii U still sold some console but i don't really care for that. The NX will most likely have 3DS and Wii U output reunited if everything goes right. It means that Nintendo will be able to do a lot more for their software output without any third party involved and hopefully be able to convince a lot of people to buy their console.

If third party see that and decide to port their latest game on it since the console sell fine, it will be alright.... But not mendatory for me personally since i will have the PS4 sooner or later. I think that's their best bet if we don't want them to downgrade their game to phone game like a lot of people suggest.

 

[eifer]

I love Nintendo but I think they should just go third party at this point. I don't see much use for having an extra console for just one publisher's games. I'm never going to buy third party games for the Nintendo console anyways, and it's unlikely that those third party games are exclusive to the Nintendo console.

But you know what, I'll buy their stupid console anyways.

 

[Rembrandt]

Really depends on how Nintendo utilizes their hardware, tbh. Make up for the lack of third parties and yeah.

 

[gelf]

To say people who want third parties would never buy a Nintendo system anyway is totally wrong in my case. I own many generations of thier handhelds because I like the third party output on the system. WiiU on the other hand holds little interest as there is just not enough for me there as I can't get enough value with Nintendo output alone.

At the very least I would want to see more Japanese third party support, there's less of those around now sadly but they need to try thier best to attract what's left. The GameCube was an easy sell to me as it had good Capcom and Sega titles on top of Nintendo's.