MegaManTrigger
Banned
I feel like that was forced because Snyder wanted to have his fingerprints on explaining Bruce Wayne's origins from a metaphorical standpoint. It just doesn't make any sense though...
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
I feel like that was forced because Snyder wanted to have his fingerprints on explaining Bruce Wayne's origins from a metaphorical standpoint. It just doesn't make any sense though...
ffejeromdiks
Banned
One word I would NEVER use to describe either MoS nor BvS is hopeful. I mean wow, how do you get that out of these films?
A far more appropriate adjective would be cynical, or contemptuous, or even dire.
Did you plug your ears or something? I assume most of the people who were predisposed to disliking the movie had long since stopped paying attention by the time the end comes around. The entire ending of the movie is about hope, as Batman puts it, " Men are still good, we fight, we kill, we betray one another, but we can rebuild we can do better, we will. We have to."
It also speaks to Batman's intentions, not just mankinds after Supermans sacrifice he knows how badly he fucked up the past few years by becoming the overly brutal manslaughtering Batman, and he pledges to "do better" next time, which is absolutely 100% hopeful.
broncobuster
Banned
I know some who always scoff at any overt symbolism. In Captain America TFA, when scrawny Steve holds up a trash lid like a shield? Folks complained about it. That new Deus Ex game trailer has a shot of Adam Jensen standing in front of lights placed to appear as wings. Folks complained. I don't get it, but different strokes and all. Heck, I heard complaining about the dream scene in Spider-Man 2.
Symbolism can be good. It can also be extremely heavy-handed in the hands of someone who can't let the audience establish thematic connections on their own.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Cemented as my favorite movie of 2016 (so far).
Enjoyed it at the theater, but LOVED this cut. Really appreciate how much more clarity this gives to Lex's core motivations and Superman's heart overall. Also appreciated the additional interviews and commentaries from ordinary people as they wrestled with who Superman could be or should be to them. How that kind of power should be embraced or quarantined. And how the Superman himself struggled to find the answer within himself. There's an old poem that always feels relevant, including now...a couple of lines:
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, dont deal in lies,
Or being hated, dont give way to hating,
And yet dont look too good, nor talk too wise
...
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth youve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build em up with worn-out tools
...
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: Hold on!
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kingsnor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything thats in it,
Andwhich is moreyoull be a Man, my son!
He kept his head through the doubt, refused to deal in lies when lied upon and when his words and actions were twisted. He never let his ego get to him despite being well positioned to do so (and really, how many can you think of that would use that level of power purely to do good?). He fought on when he had nothing left to fight with, putting everything he had into every second he had left. I think it's fair to say that Superman earned his status as a man many times over, but none as much as he earned it in the end.
Yep, I like this movie in all its coldness and ferocity. I look forward to the lighter mood of the upcoming films, but I appreciated just how dark and angry, afraid and sober, contemplative and reflective this film was, not just of the main characters, but what their responses and answers really do say about us.
Enjoyed it at the theater, but LOVED this cut. Really appreciate how much more clarity this gives to Lex's core motivations and Superman's heart overall. Also appreciated the additional interviews and commentaries from ordinary people as they wrestled with who Superman could be or should be to them. How that kind of power should be embraced or quarantined. And how the Superman himself struggled to find the answer within himself. There's an old poem that always feels relevant, including now...a couple of lines:
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, dont deal in lies,
Or being hated, dont give way to hating,
And yet dont look too good, nor talk too wise
...
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth youve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build em up with worn-out tools
...
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: Hold on!
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kingsnor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything thats in it,
Andwhich is moreyoull be a Man, my son!
He kept his head through the doubt, refused to deal in lies when lied upon and when his words and actions were twisted. He never let his ego get to him despite being well positioned to do so (and really, how many can you think of that would use that level of power purely to do good?). He fought on when he had nothing left to fight with, putting everything he had into every second he had left. I think it's fair to say that Superman earned his status as a man many times over, but none as much as he earned it in the end.
Yep, I like this movie in all its coldness and ferocity. I look forward to the lighter mood of the upcoming films, but I appreciated just how dark and angry, afraid and sober, contemplative and reflective this film was, not just of the main characters, but what their responses and answers really do say about us.
Well the whole Doomsday fight is apparently a reimagining of Excalibur and I didn't have a damn clue, so I don't think they are extremely heavy handed. Just at points.
Hey, if that Excalibur connection is true, that's cool. That's fine, and is interesting. I haven't seen that movie in decades, but that's a loose connection that atleast makes sense and is under the surface.
But I put that cave bit alongside Superman striking the Christ pose in Man of Steel, or talking with the stain-glass Jesus over his shoulder.
It's sort of a no-win I feel like. Too subtle and only a small percentage of your audience bothers to try and see it effectively ruining the effort. Obvious and you become pretentious. Where's the proper balance when you have so many people viewing the work?
Rawr Its Ry
Member
Does the Amazon or Google release also come with extras?
And I feel you ultimately try to brush off and frame complaints as being so abstract in fundamental nature that nothing meaningful can be said about them and be written off as nothing more than a difference of opinion.
I'm fine with symbolism. This is just a mediocre example of it. It's overly long. It's heavy handed. It looks a bit silly. If they absolutely had to do it, they could have done it better, but it doesn't add any new information to Batman's literal character arc, just references it, so I question it's necessity.
It's not that great a scene. It's not the worst sin the film commits by any measure, but I don't like it, and it's not because I don't like symbolism in general. That kind of rhetoric is bullshit. It's trying to dismiss the criticism by virtue of classifying the critic as someone who would object to all forms of that element within the movie and are not actually addressing the scene itself so much the concept of the scene. It's only a slight step away from "you just didn't get it"
I honestly don't know how you enjoy anything with your insistence on things having to be necessary. Because you say it a lot.
LordOfLore
Banned
So as a swede, where can I get the digital version now before buying the physical one in 41 days?
IKR? Take a look
Here is all the symbolism so far explained.
In other news, here is an excerpt from Geoff Johns interivew in the Lex Luthor featurette
The featurette also says that Luthor thought Doomsday was going to obey him so he wasn't suicidal (ha) and that he use dhis own blood to take a part into the death of Superman.
jordan0386
Member
Held out for this. I enjoy it.
Dark.
Dark.
I don't insist on things being necessary, but I do feel it's a good metric to mind, yes.
Having just watched it, I still don't really like these versions of the main characters, but this cut is such an improvement, it's not even funny.
I know WB didn't want to release a 3 hour movie into theatres, but they really shot themselves in the foot by putting out the version they did. They would've been way better off cutting all the sequel setup stuff (including the main dream/vision sequence).
I know WB didn't want to release a 3 hour movie into theatres, but they really shot themselves in the foot by putting out the version they did. They would've been way better off cutting all the sequel setup stuff (including the main dream/vision sequence).
I think so!
Try your luck on Itunes, we haven't had any reports yet.
broncobuster
Banned
I'd argue it does add to Batman's character, and have. Again, in isolation, had the scene happened, and it continued on with a Bruce/Bats characterized like Nolan's. It wouldn't work for me. But once I saw the full breadth of his character , that scene speaks to Bruce's mentality.
Doctor Ironic
Member
Your anecdotal evidence means jack shit, I knew a dude who laughed at Schindler's List, that doesn't make it a comedy.
What makes the scene bad? Or are you just gonna keep posting YouTuber platitudes?
Snyder loves his callbacks I will say that. An entire portion of this Batman/Superman confrontation (just before heading to the roof) is a recreation of the bit in the Knightmare sequence when Superman arrives.
Superman uses heat vision to kill soldiers.
Superman uses heat vision to destroy weapons.
Superman's facial expression as he approaches Batman is identical.
Superman puts hand on Batman's chest and caves it in.
Superman puts hand on Batman's chest and throws him aside. However it leaves Superman's handprint on Batman's armor where he caved it in.
Superman uses heat vision to kill soldiers.
Superman uses heat vision to destroy weapons.
Superman's facial expression as he approaches Batman is identical.
Superman puts hand on Batman's chest and caves it in.
Superman puts hand on Batman's chest and throws him aside. However it leaves Superman's handprint on Batman's armor where he caved it in.
Watched it. Plot was better. Dialogues and Characters were still terribly written.
Though absolutely an improvement over the TC, seeing this and giving the fact that they should have learned something from the whole movie I have hopes for JL again.
Still don't like Snyder's style for these DC heroes. He is more fitting for R rated movies that go full out
Though absolutely an improvement over the TC, seeing this and giving the fact that they should have learned something from the whole movie I have hopes for JL again.
Still don't like Snyder's style for these DC heroes. He is more fitting for R rated movies that go full out
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Can I rent the UC from the PSN to watch on my PS4? Or should I just wait for the bluray?
Watching it now. Think it feels overall better. Easier to understand. But still the pacing is abit weird. I have a question about that guy in the wheelchair.
Why is he mad at Bruce and sending cheques back saying i haunt you etc?Does he thing Bruce should have done something about Superman after what happened.
Lex intercepted the checks, wrote those messages and sent them back.
To the people who watched it, saying that the plot is more coherent, I have a question.
Seeing as the Ultimate Cut is three hours long, are there a more appropriate 30 minutes you'd cut from the film than was done for the Theatrical Cut. Or, perhaps to make it easier, splitting it into three acts, are there a more appropriate 10 minutes you'd cut from each third of the film?
When I watched the TC the first (and only) time, I certainly thought the Knightmare sequence (or at least the first half, with just Batman) could have been turned into a post-credits sequence.
Seeing as the Ultimate Cut is three hours long, are there a more appropriate 30 minutes you'd cut from the film than was done for the Theatrical Cut. Or, perhaps to make it easier, splitting it into three acts, are there a more appropriate 10 minutes you'd cut from each third of the film?
When I watched the TC the first (and only) time, I certainly thought the Knightmare sequence (or at least the first half, with just Batman) could have been turned into a post-credits sequence.
He never
got the cheques
Simple. The dream sequences and the cameos. Boom.
Ah oke. Was that in the TC? Cant remember really.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
But thats at the very end, after two and a half hours of dour murky and glum film. I guess by that point in the movie his words simply fell flat for me.
Maybe the UC will change that for me, I certainly hope so.
I'd cut a ton of shit, honestly. The entire Knightmare sequence goes. Doomsday stuff goes. Wonder Woman goes (leave the Diana stuff and Bruce finding the picture). Bat brand stuff goes. Kryptonite subplot goes.
I'd have to do a proper write up but I know exactly what I would get rid of and rearrange.
Only thing I'd cut is the Flash after the Knightmare. Keep the origin of the dream hazy but enough for the hardcore to guess. And also cut the League member teaser videos. That's about it.
Ideally there would have been a post credit scene set in the Knightmare to clarify what it was.
I would say the same thing and I have haven't even seen the ultimate cut yet.
I don't think that's 30 minutes worth of stuff.
As I said, you'd need to take about 10 minutes out of each act of the Ultimate Cut. I'm wondering if you, or others who have watched it, would cut the same things. Basically I'm wondering if the film was damaged in editing, or by Snyder filming too long of a movie.
It was.
The movie was obviously written as a 3.5 hours epic. I think Chris Terrio's wordyness played against them. I say remove the dreams sequences because Terrio actually got them OUT of the script, and Snyder insisted on filming them. If I were to cut more stuff I'd trim the kryptonite finding sequence.
I understand the Knightmare sequence. Doomsday though - how would the film resolve itself? I suppose you could have Batman & Superman fight as the climax, have the warehouse scene, then cut to Lex in jail, but that would be a different film. And it leaves the film in a different place. Same with the Bat brand - that's Superman's catalyst for even being interested in Batman. And the Kryptonite subplot is needed for Batman to have a leg to stand on against Superman.
That's what I'm thinking, but it seems like it would still force you to (seemingly) neuter the film like Snyder did to get it to 210 minutes.
What about everything with Lois lane, her bullet and the Senate shit.
They could've also cut down the action sequences more. I mean the entire Lois bit with the spear could've been cut altogether.
Aw hell naw. It's the best part of the UC.
broncobuster
Banned
Inherent problem when we're talking about cuts, is the scenes that should be cut are expensive action scenes. I get why they're in from a studio business standpoint, but I believe you could've cut the 3 hour runtime down to the original runtime, if not shorter, by cutting a couple of those scenes.
Take the Batmobile (No, really. Take it! /henny). Batman attaches a tracker to the truck. Right. His next step is engage the convoy in his Batmobile is a long incoherent chase scene where he nearly knocks that tracker off the truck in the mayhem.
These are problem that should've been planned during the scripting process.
Take the Batmobile (No, really. Take it! /henny). Batman attaches a tracker to the truck. Right. His next step is engage the convoy in his Batmobile is a long incoherent chase scene where he nearly knocks that tracker off the truck in the mayhem.
These are problem that should've been planned during the scripting process.
But I recall the Batmobile chase being some much needed action at that point in the film. They have to balance making a detective drama and a superhero movie.
But you're right, it could have been solved at the scripting process. But that's basically saying that they could have just made a better film. But the increased positivity as the Ultimate Cut has me wondering if they could have cut the film down better, or did the best job you could expect in trying to make the film 2.5 hours long.
Doomsday only seems extrenuous if you view him as a villain introduced out of nowhere. Its based on Zod for a reason. They could have ended the movie with Lex in a power armor but for this story Doomsday works for multiple reasons
1. Physical manifestation of Lex's hate.
2. A threat capable of killing Superman
3. Symbolic of the film's running theme of God's and monsters
4. The final consequence of The Black Zero event (Zods death)
Thus movie only works with Doomsday IMO
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I cant buy this shit on Vudu. Stupid error saying your order cannot be processed. I really want the bluray version.
HALP!
HALP!
Smokey_Run
Member
Good luck. I gave up and I'm just waiting for the blu-ray release now because I refuse to double dip. I had to wait on the phone 25 minutes just to talk to someone to remove my CC information from my account which was asinine to me. Only site I ever dealt with where you can't remove information on your own.
broncobuster
Banned
Sure, but defining a better film is subjective and in the eyes of whomever has their hands in the process. The length of a script, though, would give you a rough sense of the length of the film.
In the case of the Batmobile chase, I recall, now debunked, rumors explaining a scene where Bats is trying to escape from Superman. Perhaps you put in a shorter scene where Batman is tracking the vehicle from afar and Superman engages him. Brief scene Batman failing to escape, followed by the scene that exists. Gets around question like, "Why didn't Superman stop the convoy?"
link1201
Member
So impatient people like me just buy it instead of waiting for Redbox.
GuyKazama
Member
Same here. Giving them a few hours to get their shit together before I give up.
