Pretty sure WB went on record to say the dead Robin was Jason Todd.
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
- Start date
Pretty sure WB went on record to say the dead Robin was Jason Todd.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Jenet Klyburn of STAR Labs.
A very obscure reference.
Wouldn't be surprised to see her pop up in a future movie honestly.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Want to watch this so bad, but also want the first time I see the UC to be at high bit-rate, so I am torn... Wait for the Blu-ray or watch it tonight in the home theater.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
iwanttoseethereceipts.gif
Lois tossing it and then immediately having to retrieve it isn't illogical but it does feel like a sloppy and artificial way to inject more tension than needed.
What's illogical to me is that Batman is like yeah, whatever, take the one thing that can hurt kryptonians and do what you want with it, idgaf. And since Batman's original fear, that there's a chance Superman might eventually go rogue, is never really resolved, it's pretty dumb he didn't take it with him.
I wouldn't be surprised if they superseded Snyder with that decision.
"So, I was thinking, like, what if Dick Grayson, the orignal Robin, y'know, what if he turned bad. I like the aesthetic of that. He's the first Robin, but he's also turns into the Joker, and..."
"Yeah, um, we're just going to say it's Jason was the dead Robin"
"But..."
"No. It's just Jason".
I chalked it up to the trauma of the situation for him. Nothing about any of that bothered me so YMMV.
Well there is some added gun violence in the Africa scene. Like it comes out from a war film. Perhaps that's what really pushed it.
Re: The R rating
Im not sure why some are saying nothing was added.
This is definitely an R movie. Not hard, but clearly more violent than the usual PG-13 film.
The best way to describe it is that there is no sanitized violence. Think of the Nolan movies and how bloodless they are despite the supposedly implied violence, this isn't like that. There's a considerable amount of gun violence and blood that you do not see in your average PG13 movie, combine that with the tone and brutality, and there's no way this isn't an R rated film.
Im not sure why some are saying nothing was added.
This is definitely an R movie. Not hard, but clearly more violent than the usual PG-13 film.
The best way to describe it is that there is no sanitized violence. Think of the Nolan movies and how bloodless they are despite the supposedly implied violence, this isn't like that. There's a considerable amount of gun violence and blood that you do not see in your average PG13 movie, combine that with the tone and brutality, and there's no way this isn't an R rated film.
Spike Spiegel
Member
Blackgate and Arkham are in different parts of Gotham City, the location of which varies but is typically New Jersey area. Belle Reve is in Louisiana.
EdibleExplosives
Member
Yeah, I think I'll pass.
broncobuster
Banned
Some of the cuts from the theatrical version are completely baffling to where I'm willing to believe the early rumors WB wanted the film to focus on Batman. But even then, there are seconds long Batman scenes cut out that leave me asking why is this out, when other scenes are left in. Brief example from the warehouse scene
One more example of weird omissions, without touching Superman's beefed up presence.
Actually, one more. An exchange between Superman and Lex.
after Bats tosses the goon through a wall, the shot of him slowly approaching the other goon he stabbed is super menacing. Making him yell to scare KG Beast is great and plays into Batman's tactics. It's a few seconds. Yet in the TC, it cuts from the wall toss to KG Beast.
One more example of weird omissions, without touching Superman's beefed up presence.
There was confusion over whether Wally knew he'd suicide bomb the building. Or if that's why he went to testify in the first place. That's cleared up. Even adds relevance to Lois' side-plot.
Actually, one more. An exchange between Superman and Lex.
Lex saying "I don't know how to lose," to which Superman responds with "You'll learn." Little moments that speak to their character. Not to mention, why are you removing interactions between Lex and Superman?
illmatic22
Banned
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Gonna grab it from Redbox when it shows up there.
An inherent part of superheroes is their world. The DC world and metropolis in particular in the comics books always revolves around supermans will. Almost anything bad that could happen is stopped. If something bad does happen, then it's gotta be the heroes fault for not being around or starting something somewhere. But this doesn't even touch other parts like religion. How would the religious folks handle the very meaning of their existence being challenged by laser beam eyes? These heroes have always existed in these clinical worlds built to tell thin stories that sell books. For better or worse, the Snyder verse explores this.
The Snyderverse is our cynical lived in world, where people have been living lives for millennia and then the stuff from bed time stories is real, and it's messy. Instead of being the infallible know it all, Batman has become corruptible just like any other man due to 20 years of attrition. In the comic books its been decades, but how long do you really think a man could last seeing his enemies rise again and again, losing his allies and watching his loved ones die? Then an alien being descends in fire and the blood of his people, and claims to want to do what Batman claims to do?
But these movies aren't the dour cynical tomes folks claim they are, they are hopeful, because Clark doesn't change. He does whatever he can to help, no matter the cost. He questions if what he's doing is right, but he still does it anyways. And he gets shit for it. But he also does things that comic Superman did, that shows the difference in worlds. When he intervenes in another country in the comics, they thank him, in these movies, he's still a dude in a suit. This superman has to learn to be a diplomat in other nations and actually care about the political and social effects his actions will inherently have.
Look at Civil War by contrast, where it says the powerful will always be right, no matter what steps to them. That's some scary shit, but he called him Stank so who gives a shit right?
Out of the 30 minutes, I don't think there is a single minute that I would call inessential to the film. Literally all of it was necessary for the film to work, whether it be from lucidity in the plotting and characters, to the editing, pacing and flow of the film.
Why would someone (who I guess happens to want to kill Superman) "just happen upon" it in the middle of an abandoned building in the middle of the night?
I don't mean that night. Any night. It was left there, right? It's not like a mouse is just going to drag it away. It's Gotham. Someone will happen upon it eventually.
That sounds horrible my god if we don't get a nightwing/dick Grayson robin movie or appearance I'll rage
No one said she had to leave it there forever. Her rushing to throw it in a pool so she can need saving from said pool shortly afterwards was contrived as hell. They started with the result (Lois needs saving, Superman needs weakening) and worked backwards, and it didn't work.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Another take. The featurette is great. Makes me actually hopeful for Wonder Woman and The Flash/Cyborg.
What is the point then. :/
Same. I already told my boyfriend I won't talk to anyone for a year.
Watched it with a buddy yesterday. I passed on the theatrical release due to all of the negative reactions, after having been super hyped. So I went into this version with nothing to compare it to, and I just thought it was very meh. Like, I have no desire to ever watch it again, which is a bad sign for me since I love researching movies. I'll probably make myself watch it one more time at some point just to give it another shot.
That building gets leveled either way so really neither of our points matter.
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I mean, they still take up screen time so the question of whether or not those scenes had to exist still matters.
She's lois lane, prize winning journalist who sleeps with the guy this monster is related to.
He's a genius supervillain who has more sources than he knows what to do with.
Lex gets told by the krytpobot and has a god complex.
Almost the entire movie is from Batman's point of view, the intro is all a dream as well. Plus he's being messed with by Darkseid. Look at the shape of Clark's head in the shadows. They even have a closer shadow to show the difference.
Fucking agreed. The knightmare in particular has really bad choreography, reminds me of the last Airbender earth bender one take. I think they had Ben doing his own stunts, so if thats true, it's really on him. Even the warehouse fight has some shoddy moments in the beginning. The end fight was ok, but not nearly enough WW, which really gets hammered home because her music is banging hard during those scenes. Really surprised me, considering Snyder's forte is people looking spectacular while fighting.
I'd be genuinely interested in hearing what would have been better given the scenario.
Just saw the UC. One thing is certain, if you didn't like this movie at the first time UC won't change anything for you. The editing is better, some scenes that looked out of place in the theatrical cut now makes more sense, Africa sub-plot is less convoluted and some character motivations are slightly more understandable. To be honest there wasn't any scene in the UC that made me say ''Why the hell did they cut this ? ''. None of the additional scenes are bad but i can see why they were cut, since the uncut version is 3 hours long. I liked the movie and i liked the UC only a bit better. Didn't ''fix'' the issues of the film but like me if you enjoyed the BvS first time, nice to see more.
Oh and i gotta say if you're expecting R-Rated goodness, just don't. UC is MUCH closer to PG-13 than R Rating.
Oh and i gotta say if you're expecting R-Rated goodness, just don't. UC is MUCH closer to PG-13 than R Rating.
Yeah - so while I'd agree that there is an effort made to unpack (or deconstruct) the relationship between the heroes and their worlds, I still don't think the characters themselves are deconstructed in any meaningful way - in fact, I'm not even sure they've been properly constructed in the first place... particularly Superman himself, who is not only perceived by the masses to be this creepy, inhuman sort of alien figure... he actually acts that way as well - even in his most private moments.
I guess my overarching point is just this - you don't call your own work "deconstructive", or "post-modern" or whatever. Even when it is those things. By all means, make an effort to deconstruct structure, genre, character, or theme - but leave the labelling of such for audiences and critics if and when they feel you've been successful. It's pretty pretentious to defend a critical failure by publicly suggesting that it flew over the audiences' heads (especially when the film itself is a Superman movie and not something like The Big Lebowski and/or Blade Runner).
They wrote themselves into a corner. But even having
Lois throw the spear away, and Wonder Woman retrieving it, would have removed the silliness of Lois almost killing herself
Doctor Ironic
Member
This big monster dude just came out of the Kryptonian ship. This weapon is capable of killing my boyfriend because he is Kryptonian. Hmmmmmmm
I can't believe people legitimately have to explain how much of a farce the belief that Batman never kills is. (And even then the movie goes out of its way to explain that this isn't Batman's usual MO and he's gone crazy)
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Superman retrieving it off-screen.
The UC even reveals the branding has been going on for longer than it seems in the theatrical cut.
In the TC there's a TV report about 2 branded people being apprehended. That report is not in the US and instead we find out Batman has branded dozens of criminals so far.
But then you'd have to include a scene of WW asking Lois where the spear is in the middle of a battle. That's just as silly if you ask me. Not to mention she's the only one enjoying the fight so she'd have no reason to bother. She doesn't know Lois, she doesn't know what the weapon looks like or where it was last seen so she'd have to clarify with Batman again.
It's not a great scene but it followed its most natural course given the character motivations.
Batman not killing isn't a farce, it's a character trait. And I'm OK with Batman going crazy, I
loved the implication that when the world goes to shit in the Knightmare sequence he's practical enough to just start shooting people
kills, but only if you're standing next to something explosive. He kills, but doesn't carry a gun
There was no reason for her to throw it away in the first place. Even under a mountain of rubble, leaving Superman's only weakness to where others could eventually get to it is a bad idea. What she really wanted to do was destroy it. Even if the idea was to hide it in order to eventually retrieve it, there was no pressing reason to discard it on public land and immediately in the first place she could think of. Throwing it in the water doesn't do anything to help Clark because he wasn't under any immediate danger of it hurting him anyway.
Had Batman just taken it with him, they still could have had the dilemma of having to retrieve it, possible from Bat-plane wreckage. Of course, that means Lois has even less to do in the movie but that's a different problem.
All you have to do is look at the watchmen. Dr Manhattan has sex with Laurie while working with Veidt. Clark by contrast says fuck the world's problems and hops in the tub, clothes and all, to show he's completely there for her. The tub overflowing represents the cost of him doing this, that he can't just fly around the real world saving her wherever whenever.
And no, the artist labels it, and you search for it. It's like chefs calling certain meals deconstructions of old dishes. They set out to do it, it's up to the critic to agree they met that. And as art tends to be, it's divisive.
This doesn't really take into account the character state of minds at that point. It's like a "in hindsight I should have done this" argument. Which is valid but a bit unfair, if you ask me. Perfect decisions made in a complicated situation.
To throw a bone I am more willing to forgive the writing of a character that made a mistake for plot convenience (within reason) versus the writing of a character that didn't out of plot convenience (within reason).
People wrote this, and they wrote something that travels in a full circle for no good reason. It just doesn't manifest well on the screen.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
The cinematography of this film is sooooo good. Based
Fong
shot the heck out of it.
Yeah, reactions to stressful situations by real people are often messy and illogical. But this is a movie, man! And Lois is supposed to be incredibly smart as well as composed under pressure.
You see what you're describing in comedies all the time. One character does something and immediately regrets it, going "Shit!! Why the fuck did I do that?!" It's funny because it's absurd. In this case, it just feels absurd because we're not conditioned to see characters react that way in serious, non-comedic moments. The reality is that the emulating real life quite often does not make for a good cinematic experience.
A lot of people will be waiting for the physical release. Deadpool conversation didn't really amp up until the disc release either.
Jean Valjean
Member
Is Superman still a mopey guy in this cut?