wesleyshark
Banned
I don't see how this is a bad thing.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
From the creators of "Mechanical Apartheid", comes...
- Thread starter Odrion
- Start date
Brian_FETO
Banned
Uh....
Generally I think this sort of thing works if you're reworking the hate message into your world's lore. Like taking "God Hates ____" or something like that. It's about the same amount of subtlety but hey, if you're trying to make people think or feel things with these characters in a certain context it can work.
The parallels can and should be there but re-purposing the slogan itself is tacky
Not exactly "Eidos just shot themselves in the foot" but still. They obviously didn't mean any harm from it, offering support even, but the context could make it an issue to some folks
Generally I think this sort of thing works if you're reworking the hate message into your world's lore. Like taking "God Hates ____" or something like that. It's about the same amount of subtlety but hey, if you're trying to make people think or feel things with these characters in a certain context it can work.
The parallels can and should be there but re-purposing the slogan itself is tacky
Not exactly "Eidos just shot themselves in the foot" but still. They obviously didn't mean any harm from it, offering support even, but the context could make it an issue to some folks
Yeah, this absolutely should have been kept internal. Especially with recent events being what they are, it's perhaps allowable as a shorthand for an idea internally, art sometimes leads to those kinds of themes I suppose, but for marketing it is very crass.
And the aug/black people parallel they're trying to draw is entirely flawed, I might add.
SatoAilDarko
Member
I have always felt augments being compared to race was so weird. It's such a different thing. Why would you bring up a direct comparison?
It doesn't make sense to me, this parallel they're trying to draw.
I thought they were going for the parallels of oppression.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
Too soon... well, as a concept art is fine, but then they release it for marketing
Have ever played Deus Ex before?
Yeah. This is my biggest issue. It's not that I don't think the slogan can be used, but using augmented people (which is wrong to discriminate against in this game, but had that one incident of actual worldwide mass murder) as a parallel to race seems tacky to me.
Ninja Scooter
Member
If you are going to draw real world parallels to enhance your cyberpunk video game than you have to take the good and bad that comes with making "black lives matter" references and if you aren't prepared to take on that baggage, don't include it. Simple as that. You are using it because people will have that immediate familiarity and resonance, so you don't get to pick and choose how people react to it. You don't just get the good and none of the bad.
TemplaerDude
Member
I really don't see a problem with this. Current events have long been borrowed for all sorts of things, video games, art, movies. This is just another example.
If it's art, that's one thing (namely lazy), if they're using to push the game, it's a whole different thing.
What are the parallels?
Obviously you can have real world parallels in fiction. No one who is put off by this is arguing otherwise.
Do people really think District 9 would have been a better movie if part way through Sharlto Copley turned to the camera and said "This is a metaphor for apartheid", or would it have detracted from the movie?
A purely internal piece of marketing material released by the publisher?
Yes as I said I will judge the game on it's own merits, but this warrants discussion in terms of "this is how the publisher is choosing to market their game".
Do people really think District 9 would have been a better movie if part way through Sharlto Copley turned to the camera and said "This is a metaphor for apartheid", or would it have detracted from the movie?
A purely internal piece of marketing material released by the publisher?
Yes as I said I will judge the game on it's own merits, but this warrants discussion in terms of "this is how the publisher is choosing to market their game".
ldcommando
Banned
I like it. Can't wait to play this game.
gigantor21
Member
Really not seeing how people not liking their approach in this case stops them from doing that.
I beat Human Revolution like four times?
Context.
There's a time and a place, and a few weeks after a shitload of killings on both sides is not that time, and marketing for a game is not that place.
Perma'd for our sins.
lightskintwin
Banned
X Men/Mutants have been paralleled to Blacks in the comics drawing heavy inspiration from the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King/Malcolm X being Professor X/Magneto.
I wasn't thinking fast enough, hah, completely missed that yes this must have been released by the publisher as marketing.
Augs are people that have chosen, or have had their organs or body parts replaced with enhanced versions
Black people are born black people.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
So you know that augmented people aren't treated fairly in this universe?
Gave them the benefit of the doubt with the Apartheid thing, but this is asking for trouble.
Maybe the guy meant good and all, but there is no reason to call for that association, especially since it's not something that happened in the past, but something that is going on right now.
Even if you have obvious parallels between augments and racial tension, being this on the nose is just lame.
Maybe the guy meant good and all, but there is no reason to call for that association, especially since it's not something that happened in the past, but something that is going on right now.
Even if you have obvious parallels between augments and racial tension, being this on the nose is just lame.
mullet2000
Member
Well there's definitely some correlation between being poor and having (shitty) augs. For example people having low-skill/pay labour jobs being forced into getting augs for strength/stamina purposes.
So it's okay to be racist against people who have chosen something, like their religion -- but not if they're born into it?
Okay, gotcha.
There's a difference between parallels and more or less just replacing 'black' with 'aug'.
The mutants = civil rights thing is dumb but at least they didn't chose to be a mutant.
Augmentation is a choice with class boundaries.
1: Augmentation is a choice.
2: Augmented people killed millions when they all went berserk.
That kinda nullifies the parallels between black people and augmented to me.
wesleyshark
Banned
And there people like Jensen, who didn't have a say in getting augmented.
So because of this they aren't allowed to protest?
This.
I'm not against using real life events to draw the parallel between them and your metaphor (be it cyberpunk, or Zootopia), but if you do it, especially with something as topical as this, you're basically begging for extreme scrutiny and people combing your shit head to toe.
I'm not sure they want that.
That's a fair point, and where the line between games as art and as marketable corporate products begins and ends is one that always drives me crazy.
Yeah, as marketing this is shitty and exploitative. Coming at it from the perspective of someone who wants to play a good sci-fi game, I can get behind it. Imagining being an artist of said sci-fi game, I can imagine using what's in the media to ground the story and environment.
So there's a dichotomy there all right.
Except when it wasn't.
The main character didn't choose to be augmented, he was forced to be.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Does saying this before anyone actually gets angry make you any different ?
Confused Cheeseburger
Member
The marketing of this game has been pretty crass. Based on the writing of heard in the game, I don't have great faith these heavy topics will be handled gracefully.
Zooboomoofu
Member
The parallel may seem obvious, and the themes may be explored well in the game, but for marketing the game it feels a bit cheap and distasteful.
Real issues and themes being referenced in entertainment is nothing new, but if the real world reference is a sensitive and prevalent issue it needs to be earned.
At this point referencing segregation and a deep history of racism will only make us compare the game to real world slavery, torture, and murder because of the colour of ones skin. Deus Ex and its mechanical "apartheid" have yet to earn this. Hopefully they do come August 23rd.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
when black people have an Aug Incident and are foced against their nature to murder millions of people, with the possibility that it could happen again at any time, THEN you can make this parallel
that goes double for mutants in the X-Men comics. Black people don't have fucking lasers shooting out of their eyes or knives coming out of their hands or the ability to scramble your brain with their minds. People have a right to be scared and want segregation in those cases.
that goes double for mutants in the X-Men comics. Black people don't have fucking lasers shooting out of their eyes or knives coming out of their hands or the ability to scramble your brain with their minds. People have a right to be scared and want segregation in those cases.
Oh shit! It was a lot more than I thought!
For what it's worth, some people need their Augs to survive and most got it (and some probably can't get it removed) before the massacre. That said, I still think this is an awful correlation.
Similar threads
- Locked