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No Man's Sky Review Thread: The Scores Have Arrived (read OP)

Wingus

Member
Good review from one of my favourite reviewers - Gggmanlives

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyBVTOiMshA

I agree with basically everything he says

Thank you for this video. It pretty much reinforces exactly what I feared this game was going to be like (going by earlier impressions), and it's a huge shame that it turned out the way it did.

I'm not familiar with this reviewer, but I like the video and will check out his other stuff as well. A succinct 8 minutes that covered what I needed to know.
 

nOoblet16

Member
Have you got anything to back this up? Have you cracked open the files on your PC version?

Some players are currently looking at similarities between the different classifications of star system, which if true obviously goes against your sound theory.

Well considering it's RNG it's not me who has to prove my claim since that's how RNG works, but rather the people who claim otherwise.

And what do you mean by similarities between different classifications of star system? As far as I can see the only classification to differentiate one star system from another is how close it is to the galaxy.
There might be some differences like more ships in systems near galactic core compared to where you started but those would be nominal changes. A few people who have been to the core have said that they didn't really find any particular differences in the environment they came across near the core. I jumped 6 star systems (towards galactic core) before I found a planet with grass, my friend on the other hand started on a planet full of grass.
 
My biggest disappointment was the flight model being so restrictive. It makes me feel like a spectator rather than a pilot, I guess there are big tech limitations relating to terrain generation and clipping?

Why wouldn't they let us fly/crash/takeoff/land without holding our hand? There is no joy in it.

Second, I was shocked at the focus being on meters, resources and managing inventory space. I feel it is way too restrictive initially. I could honestly see this working as a F2P game because of this.
 
Damn I kept following the atlas path and never noticed there's systems with different colors that require certain warp upgrades, back to the grind again
 

nOoblet16

Member
My biggest disappointment was the flight model being so restrictive. It makes me feel like a spectator rather than a pilot, I guess there are big tech limitations relating to terrain generation and clipping?
I doubt it has anything to do with that.

Second, I was shocked at the focus being on meters, resources and managing inventory space. I feel it is way too restrictive initially. I could honestly see this working as a F2P game because of this.
Well I think most people had the wrong idea about this game.
They weren't expecting a survival game with resource management, but rather a space exploration focused game.
 

Tomeru

Member
That's a direct refute of his criticism. You directly said that what he was talking about is where your issue lay. Therefore bad review. Read x review instead.

If that is what you think, than you are wrong. I'm not talking about the outcome of the review. EG addressed the flaws of the game without being snarky. I pointed it out because I tend to read theirs and GSs reviews, among other publications. It was always about the way a review presents (or should present) the pros and cons of a game. I also don't like reviews that read like something an upset disappointed customer says. Reviews should be held to a higher standard than a youtube review currently provide. And they usually does. If it bothers you that I chose EGs review, have a look at Polygon's review (I hate Polygon), but for this issue, their way of presenting flaws are much more down to earth, and they manage to better explain what it is they criticize. Their opening paragraph does a much better job than the youtube oneat explaining what you can expect from their thought process, and there is no shred of snarky comments in the whole review.

And I would say this again, in hopes that it will help clarify what I am talking about - I agree with the current metacritic score.
 
How do you think the planets get lit ? :p
The lightsource you see inside star system when you are going about in your ship is a star...it's not the centre of the galaxy. It wouldn't make sense for that lightsource to be the centre of galaxy as then it'd be lighting up the planets from hundreds of thousands of light years away.

Well, the game is not a simulation and pretty unrealistic as far as I know.

But let's assume each star system has a sun. A few questions arise from that:
Why are all the planets so close together?
Do planets really orbit the sun and at different speeds?
Shouldn't there be planets behind the sun as well?
Is it possible to reach the sun? It seems it isn't.

This all leads me to believe that there are no real suns in the game.
So all the stars on the galactic map are fake.
 

Plum

Member
If that is what you think, than you are wrong. I'm not talking about the outcome of the review. EG addressed the flaws of the game without being snarky. I pointed it out because I tend to read theirs and GSs reviews, among other publications. It was always about the way a review presents (or should present) the pros and cons of a game. I also don't like reviews that read like something an upset disappointed customer says. Reviews should be held to a higher standard than a youtube review currently provide. And they usually does. If it bothers you that I chose EGs review, have a look at Polygon's review (I hate Polygon), but for this issue, their way of presenting flaws are much more down to earth, and they manage to better explain what it is they criticize. Their opening paragraph does a much better job than the youtube oneat explaining what you can expect from their thought process, and there is no shred of snarky comments in the whole review.

And I would say this again, in hopes that it will help clarify what I am talking about - I agree with the current metacritic score.

This is the first thing you said about the review:

That's a review on what the game is not. It should be about what the game is. Bad review imho. You should read Eurogamers' review.

No mention of snark or how he presents himself, only what the contents of the review were i.e. what his criticisms were. You then went on to say:

It's suggesting what the game should be, and his general tone of his speech reall tells. Eurogamer is more positive on a whole, but it still criticize what is wrong with the game. No hate in there too. It's important not to hate when you try to explain to someone what works and what not.

See, I'd be more inclined to listen to a review that doesn't have the words suck and rubbish in it.

And I do agree with the scores the game got.

And have since failed to explain why it's not OK for him to "suggest what the game should be" whilst it's OK for you to suggest what reviews should be. That's why people are getting confused.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Well, the game is not a simulation and pretty unrealistic as far as I know.

But let's assume each star system has a sun. A few questions arise from that:
Why are all the planets so close together?
Do planets really orbit the sun and at different speeds?
Shouldn't there be planets behind the sun as well?
Is it possible to reach the sun? It seems it isn't.

This all leads me to believe that there are no real suns in the game.
So all the stars on the galactic map are fake.

Of course it has a sun. It is right there in the video.


Unfortunately it has been placed in the skybox.
 

spekkeh

Banned
My biggest disappointment was the flight model being so restrictive. It makes me feel like a spectator rather than a pilot, I guess there are big tech limitations relating to terrain generation and clipping?

Why wouldn't they let us fly/crash/takeoff/land without holding our hand? There is no joy in it.

Second, I was shocked at the focus being on meters, resources and managing inventory space. I feel it is way too restrictive initially. I could honestly see this working as a F2P game because of this.
Hmm I'm the opposite. I don't want to jump out of pulse, only to find I still have to manually coast for twenty minutes. I'm happy I can just pulse into the planet because I won't crash. Also landing by pressing a button, the grind would be infinitely worse if you also had to fiddle around at every landing spot.
 

Calabi

Member
Well considering it's RNG it's not me who has to prove my claim since that's how RNG works, but rather the people who claim otherwise.

And what do you mean by similarities between different classifications of star system? As far as I can see the only classification to differentiate one star system from another is how close it is to the galaxy.
There might be some differences like more ships in systems near galactic core compared to where you started but those would be nominal changes. A few people who have been to the core have said that they didn't really find any particular differences in the environment they came across near the core. I jumped 6 star systems (towards galactic core) before I found a planet with grass, my friend on the other hand started on a planet full of grass.

I dont think its even RNG its procedural so its a predictable static number generator. So if you really study things you could probably find the patterns. Like every odd numbered system is lush green tropical for example. I'd be interested to know how they've done it because depending on how, two systems next to one another wouldn't be very different if they just changed by one decimal place. That's probably why the planets are so generic.

They just overcooked it, they didn't need over a Quintilian planets, they didn't need to use every number.
 

nOoblet16

Member
Well, the game is not a simulation and pretty unrealistic as far as I know.

But let's assume each star system has a sun. A few questions arise from that:
Why are all the planets so close together?
Do planets really orbit the sun and at different speeds?
Shouldn't there be planets behind the sun as well?
Is it possible to reach the sun? It seems it isn't.

This all leads me to believe that there are no real suns in the game.
So all the stars on the galactic map are fake.

Yes I know and you are right about all of that but what I meant is that the sun is the light source that lits up the planets and the day night cycle on the planet is due to the rotation of the planet. It's accurate in that respect.
 

nOoblet16

Member
I dont think its even RNG its procedural so its a predictable static number generator. So if you really study things you could probably find the patterns. Like every odd numbered system is lush green tropical for example. I'd be interested to know how they've done it because depending on how, two systems next to one another wouldn't be very different if they just changed by one decimal place. That's probably why the planets are so generic.

They just overcooked it, they didn't need over a Quintilian planets, they didn't need to use every number.

What I meant from RNG in this sense was that it would be a random element from the list of parameters available for procedural generation. Yes there is a certain logic to how the elements tie together, which is why you don't see an animal with a plant's head...but that seems pretty basic.
 

LeBart

Member
Hmm I'm the opposite. I don't want to jump out of pulse, only to find I still have to manually coast for twenty minutes. I'm happy I can just pulse into the planet because I won't crash. Also landing by pressing a button, the grind would be infinitely worse if you also had to fiddle around at every landing spot.
But see, if moving around on foot or in the ship isn't fun in itself, there's nothing left but the grind, which kinda makes it worse in my opinion.
 

thenexus6

Member
Thank you for this video. It pretty much reinforces exactly what I feared this game was going to be like (going by earlier impressions), and it's a huge shame that it turned out the way it did.

I'm not familiar with this reviewer, but I like the video and will check out his other stuff as well. A succinct 8 minutes that covered what I needed to know.

He is definitely worth checking out, one of the better reviewers out there
 

Calabi

Member
What I meant from RNG in this sense was that it would be a random element from the list of parameters available for procedural generation. Yes there is a certain logic to how the elements tie together, which is why you don't see an animal with a plant's head...but that seems pretty basic.

Well a real RNG might be more interesting, a plant headed animal could be fun. And planets without buildings and sentinels.
 

Fredrik

Member
Well a real RNG might be more interesting, a plant headed animal could be fun. And planets without buildings and sentinels.
Not disagreeing and no plant but I've seen horses with two tentacles for head and several meter long flying worms with dragonfly wings. And someone said earlier that there could be robots on the planets too. Pretty cool.

But there are no planet without buildings and sentinels? I thought I struck gold with my starter planet with buildings and traders everywhere.
 

elco

Member
Well considering it's RNG it's not me who has to prove my claim since that's how RNG works, but rather the people who claim otherwise.

And what do you mean by similarities between different classifications of star system? As far as I can see the only classification to differentiate one star system from another is how close it is to the galaxy.
There might be some differences like more ships in systems near galactic core compared to where you started but those would be nominal changes. A few people who have been to the core have said that they didn't really find any particular differences in the environment they came across near the core. I jumped 6 star systems (towards galactic core) before I found a planet with grass, my friend on the other hand started on a planet full of grass.

You've been speaking in a whole lot of absolutes. The terrain isn't randomly generated when you approach the planet. It was generated by a seed, along with the rest of the universe. The procedure could then take that seed and use certain rulesets to build out planets given things such as local elements in that system, distance from star etc. Given that your statement directly contradicts that of the devs, I think you're in the position of providing the proof.
 
Yes I know and you are right about all of that but what I meant is that the sun is the light source that lits up the planets and the day night cycle on the planet is due to the rotation of the planet. It's accurate in that respect.

I don't think that's true though - doesn't every planet have the same day/night cycle?
 

nOoblet16

Member
I don't think that's true though - doesn't every planet have the same day/night cycle?
Pretty sure DF mentioned that the day night cycle is appropriate to the rotation.
I'm gonna try landing on an unlit part of the planet now that is close to being exposed to the sun to check if this is really the case.
 

domlolz

Banned
y'see that stuff is the most disappointing to me. i want to explore binary star systems and planets with day/night cycles that last minutes or planets with extreme gravity or scorched planets that are too close to their star or dwarf planets only a few miles big etcetc.

no mans sky exploration doesnt sound very interesting to me when the most interesting aspects of sci-fi planet spotting has been stripped out
 

ironcreed

Banned
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HefCxo9UVtA

Worthabuy review - AKA 'mining and grinding'

In the Youtube comments he said:

It's worth a buy if you like pointing a laser at a plant

jackcrying_zps40dbc542.gif
 

Plum

Member
y'see that stuff is the most disappointing to me. i want to explore binary star systems and planets with day/night cycles that last minutes or planets with extreme gravity or scorched planets that are too close to their star or dwarf planets only a few miles big etcetc.

no mans sky exploration doesnt sound very interesting to me when the most interesting aspects of sci-fi planet spotting has been stripped out

Go "play" (it's not really a game at all) Space Engine, though there's no gameplay just exploring an approximation of the actual observable Universe is amazing. I found a planet with mountains ten times bigger than Everest yesterday, then went into the centre of the galaxy I was in and got stuck in a Black Hole (which is an absolutely terrifying thing, made me feel a bit queasy)
 
If that is what you think, than you are wrong. I'm not talking about the outcome of the review. EG addressed the flaws of the game without being snarky. I pointed it out because I tend to read theirs and GSs reviews, among other publications. It was always about the way a review presents (or should present) the pros and cons of a game. I also don't like reviews that read like something an upset disappointed customer says. Reviews should be held to a higher standard than a youtube review currently provide. And they usually does. If it bothers you that I chose EGs review, have a look at Polygon's review (I hate Polygon), but for this issue, their way of presenting flaws are much more down to earth, and they manage to better explain what it is they criticize. Their opening paragraph does a much better job than the youtube oneat explaining what you can expect from their thought process, and there is no shred of snarky comments in the whole review.

And I would say this again, in hopes that it will help clarify what I am talking about - I agree with the current metacritic score.

Yeah but.....:

I wasn't trying to refute his criticism, just the way his review was done, which in my opinion was not good. It was childish and disrespectful to the listener, on top of not being professional.

Then why was the only thing you thought necessary to say regarding his review before being challenged, this:

That's a review on what the game is not. It should be about what the game is. Bad review imho. You should read Eurogamers' review.

That's a direct refute of his criticism. You directly said that what he was talking about is where your issue lay. Therefore bad review. Read x review instead.

When challenged about what you thought was wrong with what he talked about, you completely ditched what was your only actual point at that time and decided that you just didn't like his tone and that there wasn't actually anything wrong with his actual points. Therefore bad review. Read x review instead.

I mean, if you're going to:

-disparage someone's review as simply a bad review because it talks about the wrong things and doesn't talk about the right things,

-fail to back up your claim and instead move directly to attacking the reviewer instead of any point he made,

-then deny you actually had any problem with what he was talking about when asked why you said you didn't like what he was talking about.......when your whole original point was that you didn't like what he was talking about......


I find people who twist, fold and bend their arguments mid discussion, as if nobody can see what they're doing to be far more disrespectful and childish than a review using negative language to describe things they find negative.

But that's just my opinion.

You've not addressed the part where you criticised his talking points, failed to point out any of them when asked and decided to just disparage him as a reviewer instead.
 
LGR's review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGdHDzAaBTI

Very fair. His main gripe is the inventory system and the sameness of outposts, and alien interactions could have been better. Says the game became really enjoyable after 20 hours (he didn't spoil it). Choice quote at the end:

"It's not that it's a bad game by any means but it's that it only treads water with its own ideas without actually diving into the deep end. I genuinely hope Hello Games takes that dive in the future because the skeleton of a great game is here, but it's lacking muscle for the time being, especially in the first part of the game.

Again, I can't stress enough how aggravating the first 20-something hours were for me and that just sucks. The honeymoon period of a game should be full of smiles and wonder, not grimaces and swearing. Instead that joy of fulfilment with what I was doing in the game didn't arrive until much later into my experience and, well, come to think of it, maybe that's the whole point? I mean, in real life you also start off with nothing, you have no idea what's going on, and things are just unmanageable for a long time. You may even want to quit because the promise of better things in the future just seems too far off. But if you stick to it and work through the crap there's a chance you'll find a purpose and a routine that works for you. You might even find some version of happiness you can agree with. You reach your point where finally you can sit back, admire what you've earned, and just go exploring the weirdness of reality, free of the shackles of having to find your place in life.

I don't know if it's the sleep deprivation but once I got to the good parts of No Man's Sky I really felt that. You will, too. Or maybe you won't. Either way, I would understand. I understand why people love this game and I understand why people hate it, too. I also understand if you think it's squarely in the middle, an overpriced bunch of forgettable nonsense. No Man's Sky is a big enough game with enough varying experiences to be all these things simultaneously, and despite its numerous problems and baffling design choices, I've developed this genuine respect for it because of that. Its still difficult for me to whole-heartedly recommend it, especially its $60, but it's certainly something that's gotten me thinking, and that's more than I can say for most games in 2016."
 
Instead that joy of fulfilment with what I was doing in the game didn't arrive until much later into my experience and, well, come to think of it, maybe that's the whole point? I mean, in real life you also start off with nothing, you have no idea what's going on, and things are just unmanageable for a long time. You may even want to quit because the promise of better things in the future just seems too far off. But if you stick to it and work through the crap there's a chance you'll find a purpose and a routine that works for you. You might even find some version of happiness you can agree with. You reach your point where finally you can sit back, admire what you've earned, and just go exploring the weirdness of reality, free of the shackles of having to find your place in life.

Maybe i'm crazy, but I don't think it would be good design to purposefully make the first 20 hours of a game less enjoyable. Like, if it comes from depth of mechanics taking time to master then sure. But that doesn't sound like that's the case in this game. That sounds more akin to a weird video game battle of attrition where you finally could ignore the game's mechanics.
 
Maybe i'm crazy, but I don't think it would be good design to purposefully make the first 20 hours of a game less enjoyable.
It's like the extreme end of the "you have to wait for it to get good" kind of garbage people have to use to defend certain RPGs.

I may have had time for that at one point but now that sounds like a waste of my damn time.
 

Zen Mu

Member
4players.de - 59/100
"A fascinating journey with a great futuristic aesthetic, that offers many magical moments despite its shortcomings. It could be an entertaining game, if it wasn't for the numerous crashes."

This pretty much sums it up for me perfectly. The amount of crashing has killed the game for me. I'm willing to overlook the other flaws, but I just get too many crashes, most of which seem to come after I have made a nice chunk of progress, but before I can save said progress. I dig the game, but the crashing is just too much for me. I hate it when my free time is completely wasted.
 

Reebot

Member
Maybe i'm crazy, but I don't think it would be good design to purposefully make the first 20 hours of a game less enjoyable. Like, if it comes from depth of mechanics taking time to master then sure. But that doesn't sound like that's the case in this game. That sounds more akin to a weird video game battle of attrition where you finally could ignore the game's mechanics.

Its also the near epitome of privilege to defend a game taking 20 hours to get enjoyable. The vast, vast majority of folk don't have the kind of life wherein one can blow 20 hours of relaxation time willy nilly.
 

Tomeru

Member
You've not addressed the part where you criticised his talking points, failed to point out any of them when asked and decided to just disparage him as a reviewer instead.

I didn't critisize his talking points, I critisized the way he presented them: As what the game is not. That was his point of origin. What is so difficult to understand here? You, for some reason, latched on to my opening words, and wrote off my explanation with "yeah but...".

If you have any question more that you think I haven't answered yet, please ask it, and not the same question again.

And have since failed to explain why it's not OK for him to "suggest what the game should be" whilst it's OK for you to suggest what reviews should be. That's why people are getting confused.

That is because it's my opinion. I like reviews that tell me what the game is and what wrong with it, not what a game isn't and why. Also, as I added, snarky comments just because, don;t add credit to a review in my eyes. If you buy a refrigerator, would you like to hear what it does or why it's not also a stove (lousy example, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at)? My issue is with the way he presented his issues. Again, read Polygon's and then listen to the youtube review (or the opposite).

A reviewer can say whatever, but I'll be more inclined to listen to someone who isn't just oozing lame/boooring (before anything is actually said, figuratively) from their review.
 

Fredrik

Member
Maybe i'm crazy, but I don't think it would be good design to purposefully make the first 20 hours of a game less enjoyable. Like, if it comes from depth of mechanics taking time to master then sure. But that doesn't sound like that's the case in this game. That sounds more akin to a weird video game battle of attrition where you finally could ignore the game's mechanics.
20 hours is a bit much but slow starts is kind of how upgrade grinding usually work imo, crafting games, racing simulators, RPGs, just about any game with upgrades or a level system will only get better the more you play it, some are extreme slow-starters but give you more satisfaction in the end vs the fast-starters that will be better from the start but hit the ceiling much earlier. I honestly have no problem with any of that, the payoff is that it only gets better the more you play the game.
 
20 hours is a bit much but slow starts is kind of how upgrade grinding usually work imo, crafting games, racing simulators, RPGs, just about any game with upgrades or a level system will only get better the more you play it, some are extreme slow-starters but give you more satisfaction in the end vs the fast-starters that will be better from the start but hit the ceiling much earlier. I honestly have no problem with any of that, the payoff is that it only gets better the more you play the game.

There's a difference though. You're upgrading your skills, but in the case of something like an RPG it should be enhancing the game mechanics. For example: an archer in an rpg gains more abilities and you have more options in combat. You have more ways to engage with the game, or new options open up. In a racing game I already enjoy the base racing, but now I can do it in an even better car, or I can start to tailor the car to how I like to play. The game builds on it's systems and enhances them, you get a sense of progression within it but don't escape it.

The quote about NMS sounds more like one's enjoyment of the game will increase when the base mechanics of the game can be ignored. To me, that's bad. Imo the goal of a game should not be to eventually ignore it's systems. What's the point of those systems in the first place, then? That's like if I buy a stealth game where halfway through the game the payoff is that I no longer have to use stealth. If my payoff is that I don't have to engage with a part of the game anymore then I see that as bad design.

Maybe i'm just missing something though.
 

Flipyap

Member
Maybe i'm crazy, but I don't think it would be good design to purposefully make the first 20 hours of a game less enjoyable. Like, if it comes from depth of mechanics taking time to master then sure. But that doesn't sound like that's the case in this game. That sounds more akin to a weird video game battle of attrition where you finally could ignore the game's mechanics.
Are you for real? That comment about 20 hours was about his personal experience, the game isn't designed that way. There is nothing special that happens at the 20 hour mark. You either get into it, or you don't. A dude taking 20 hours to understand what makes a game fun isn't a general rule.

Its also the near epitome of privilege to defend a game taking 20 hours to get enjoyable. The vast, vast majority of folk don't have the kind of life wherein one can blow 20 hours of relaxation time willy nilly.
By that logic saying anything good about any game ever is "the epitome of privilege." Your favorite game probably took someone forever to find the fun in it... maybe even their entire life! You're basically the most selfish entitled privilege monster for saying good things about it and you should feel bad.
 
I don't think that's true though - doesn't every planet have the same day/night cycle?

I don't think the planets rotate at all. I watched a POI from space and it stood there with so signs of movement.
So when you are on a planet the fake sun probably rotates around all planets in the star system.

The funny thing is this:
You can fly seamlessly from the surface of a planet to another, and every star in the sky is a sun that you can visit.
This is what their website is still saying.

So many lies...
 

danowat

Banned
I don't think the planets rotate at all. I watched a POI from space and it stood there with so signs of movement.
So when you are on a planet the fake sun probably rotates around all planets in the star system.
There are a number of time lapses on YouTube showing everything is static.
 
I have to say that the game turned out pretty much exactly as I expected. Very few of the individual parts stand out. But on a whole I enjoy it.

I've always loved the isolationist feel of something like Metroid, and I find that here too.

My concern was that after the first few hours the planets would basically feel very repetitive. What I've found is that there's enough variation to keep me interested so far.

The last two planets were a beautiful looking, super radiative ocean planet and a seemingly barren rocky planet that turned out to have caves filled with vortex cubes.

I hope that as I continue playing it will keep surprising me with interesting new sights and random oddities.

My question for the devs would be why my exo suit can have vastly more space to store stuff than the 6 million unit ship I bought.
 

RMI

Banned
It's like the extreme end of the "you have to wait for it to get good" kind of garbage people have to use to defend certain RPGs.

I may have had time for that at one point but now that sounds like a waste of my damn time.

I think it's okay if a game "hits its stride" after a few hours, but for it to go from bad to less bad after some larger period of time: that's not great.
 
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