Heavy_D206
Member
Really?
I would love to be him doing an interview stating incredible sales numbers and laying out plans for the future of this highly successful franchise.
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Reddit Compiles Definitive List of All NMS Missing Features/False Marketing +Sources
- Thread starter 213372bu
- Start date
Really?
I would love to be him doing an interview stating incredible sales numbers and laying out plans for the future of this highly successful franchise.
Zomba13
Member
Well, there is a sun, in the sky and in space, but like how there is also a sun in Super Mario Sunshine or Halo, where it's in a skybox. You can't ever fly into it, nothing can rotate around it. At best the skybox rotates around the planet you are on but I've not spent an entire, fairly short, day/night cycle watching the sky.
him laying out plans wont hold the same weight.
As someone watching this from the outside, it think its extremely important for developers to manage expectations before the product launches. Talk in certain terms about what you know can deliver, and reel in the hype speak about things you're not 100% sure on or still looking into. I don't see a bad game that launched a few days ago, I see a poor job in communicating the game's true scope. If the scope of the game changes before launch, its the responsibility of the developer to pass that information on to the consumer if they don't want the backlash.
Inviusx
Member
You win.
Sure, I'll grant that. Likewise, no random game company has authority over people to make them believe in or subjectively interpret their marketing in a specific way. Much less authority to make them purchase a product based on said marketing.
People did research to decide if they want to buy the game at launch. Available information on the internet led to sources in the OP which do not properly reflect the game.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Lmao. You're essentially saying that false advertising is an acceptable practice because consumers aren't literally forced to buy the product.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I feel like the key thing here is that all the vagueness surrounding the game and the fact that for like nearly 2 years we only had probably around 7 minutes of footage to base our opinions off of lead to people assuming the game would just be the that but more.
Which isn't exactly unreasonable you know?
Also I feel like too many people ended up thinking the game was going to be a more accessible space sim, or a game that felt like X2 or Elite that anyone could pick up and play which might have finally been a dream come true for people who were too intimidated by the former but have always dreamed of space exploration.
The list of features missing though is kind of damning, it's actually incredible how much they showed off and how recent most of that stuff was shown off and it jsut isn't in the game in that form.
But honestly all of those features could have been included in the game and I think I would still take massive amounts of issue with it. After 20 or so hours I just don't have it in me to play it anymore. It only needed to do one thing right for me and that was make your ship an exciting thing to upgrade and fly, and it failed spectacularly for me in that regard.
I also have a strong dislike for the way player progression is handled, as well as installing upgrades, stacking all the available ones and having them consume a cargo slot. It makes getting a new ship less fun and more "ugh now i have to grind for copper and aluminum to reinstall 2 levels of warp drive and shields" so you don't even feel like you traded up for at least another 2 hours.
Same with the multi tool, I found a guy giving me higher cap multitool right after dumping all my resources into my current one's mining upgrades and when i backed out to dismantle all of them to try and recover some of the stuff (because you can't uninstall mods and move them to a new one) but when I talked to him again the guy wouldn't offer it to me anymore. So I considered reloading a previous save but then I was unsure if the guy would even offer it on a reload or if it was a totally random event so I just gave up and got off for the night.
The game is actually just not very thrilling to play, discovering the planets is not exciting because there is nothing to see and nothing different to do on each one. Scanning stuff is boring, resource hunting is painfully slow if you're looking for specific stuff, factions are meaningless and trying to shoot at anything is just a total disaster in space or on foot, and the economy / trading is a complete joke. If you could scan ahead of time what the systems around you were trading or wanting that would be interesting, but because money is so useless once you upgrade your suit to a decent amount of slots and get a goodish ship there never feels like a rush to make more of it.
I went from loving this game in the first 2 hours to really just wishing it had been in the oven for another 6 months before release by the time I hit my 20th hour.
Which isn't exactly unreasonable you know?
Also I feel like too many people ended up thinking the game was going to be a more accessible space sim, or a game that felt like X2 or Elite that anyone could pick up and play which might have finally been a dream come true for people who were too intimidated by the former but have always dreamed of space exploration.
The list of features missing though is kind of damning, it's actually incredible how much they showed off and how recent most of that stuff was shown off and it jsut isn't in the game in that form.
But honestly all of those features could have been included in the game and I think I would still take massive amounts of issue with it. After 20 or so hours I just don't have it in me to play it anymore. It only needed to do one thing right for me and that was make your ship an exciting thing to upgrade and fly, and it failed spectacularly for me in that regard.
I also have a strong dislike for the way player progression is handled, as well as installing upgrades, stacking all the available ones and having them consume a cargo slot. It makes getting a new ship less fun and more "ugh now i have to grind for copper and aluminum to reinstall 2 levels of warp drive and shields" so you don't even feel like you traded up for at least another 2 hours.
Same with the multi tool, I found a guy giving me higher cap multitool right after dumping all my resources into my current one's mining upgrades and when i backed out to dismantle all of them to try and recover some of the stuff (because you can't uninstall mods and move them to a new one) but when I talked to him again the guy wouldn't offer it to me anymore. So I considered reloading a previous save but then I was unsure if the guy would even offer it on a reload or if it was a totally random event so I just gave up and got off for the night.
The game is actually just not very thrilling to play, discovering the planets is not exciting because there is nothing to see and nothing different to do on each one. Scanning stuff is boring, resource hunting is painfully slow if you're looking for specific stuff, factions are meaningless and trying to shoot at anything is just a total disaster in space or on foot, and the economy / trading is a complete joke. If you could scan ahead of time what the systems around you were trading or wanting that would be interesting, but because money is so useless once you upgrade your suit to a decent amount of slots and get a goodish ship there never feels like a rush to make more of it.
I went from loving this game in the first 2 hours to really just wishing it had been in the oven for another 6 months before release by the time I hit my 20th hour.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Thank you. It really is ridiculous.
Lol. Wasn't so hard right? A couple paragraphs, a sincere apology and then we're done. Fuel to flame stopped.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Also true, but I would say that companies have a responsibility to market their products fairly and as truthfully as possible. You may feel like HG/Sony/whoever did do that to the best of their ability, but I think on a fundamental level a lot of people disagree with that.
That's the true crux of the criticism, I think. Who has the lion's share of the responsibility in marketing - the consumer or the marketer? Personally, I believe it's on the company, but there's something to be said for conspicuous consumption as well. Consumers shouldn't have to do that legwork, imo. I assume pretty much all trailers and advertisements are weasely to some degree, but I wish I didn't have to!
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
'Interpreting' definitive yes/no statements.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
You do realize that the main contention, multiplayer, is not up for interpretation correct?
You do realize that the main contention, multiplayer, is not up for interpretation correct?
Video evidence just isn't enough, I need a 4D representation of Sean signing a blood oath to believe you.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
it was a trick. i deceived you.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
The thing for a consumer is that there are different levels of responsibility.
If the developer of a game says "This game has the most innovative and expansive multiplayer ever attempted in video game!" Well sure, I'm going to be cautious about that claim.
What I shouldn't need to be suspicious over is the basic feature existing in the game at all. Quality and execution is up for debate. Inclusion, not so much. One is hyperbolic marketing, the other would be a flat-out lie.
BravesCountry
Banned
This is spot on. In a legal sense the first scenario is called puffery and most people are aware enough to question such statements.
Also your hypothetical PR release was spot on, well done.
Pestilence11
Member
This
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Appreciate it, thanks.
Up until they announced the $60 price point, I always felt that this was going to be a $20 to $30 just based on the content they were showing. I was actually extremely surprised that they were going with a full $60 price for this game, and that did raise my expectations.
However, after playing it, I have extremely strong feelings about this being priced $60, I haven't experienced anything in the game that would justify a full $60 price point so far and, in my opinion, the game should be priced somewhere between $30 to $40(and I'd suggest any potential buyers to wait until it gets to that price point).
His head movement clearly indicates a 'no,' he was telling the truth from the start but you people just keep misunderstanding the poor fellow.You do realize that the main contention, multiplayer, is not up for interpretation correct?
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
HIs body language in some of these interviews is so damn awkward. (No, i'm not suggesting anything by that - it's just awkward ;P)
Grinchy
Banned
This really does look bad. No only that, but when you watch the "real gameplay footage" from the E3 showings and the First Looks and stuff, it upsets me that the final product looks so awful in comparison. I'm glad I didn't preorder this one like I thought I would a couple years ago.
Incredible
Dreams-Visions
Member
What a fascinating thread. Even seeing the stages of grief in here. I think HG has a responsibility to walk back statements and clarify what their game presently is. I don't think that's an unfair request. To the degree that they haven't is the degree to which we find ourselves here in threads like this.
The response shouldn't for other developers to be less forthcoming (as some of you have suggested), but rather to be more honest in the ample opportunities they have to be so. As Will Smith said, "tell the truth." Nobody is asking for more than that. Yea, people might be disappointed and people might be salty on the internet for a time, but people won't feel deceived and the internet won't blow up on you. The former is far better than the later. That much should be clear at this point.
The response shouldn't for other developers to be less forthcoming (as some of you have suggested), but rather to be more honest in the ample opportunities they have to be so. As Will Smith said, "tell the truth." Nobody is asking for more than that. Yea, people might be disappointed and people might be salty on the internet for a time, but people won't feel deceived and the internet won't blow up on you. The former is far better than the later. That much should be clear at this point.
Alebrije
Member
getting a little technical there
Marty Chinn
Member
On the surface and on paper I want to agree with you but knowing the nature of game development and all my experience with it makes me disagree with the notion that inclusion is that easy of a commitment. Things that may be planned may turn out not to work out in execution and then the design changes to accommodate that. So inclusion shouldn't always be a given.
killertofu
Member
Is this disappointment the same way we would feel if we met god and just told us we were part of a boring algorithm?
note, playing NMS and am very high
Lol is anyone surprised at this outcome? I feel bad for people who still buy into hype. Sorry for coming off so damn smug, but the little bit I heard of this game early on sounded so far fetched for an indie console game. I will admit that besides the backlash from the hardcore super hyped gamers, I've seen people in the real world talk about this game positively. Usually I only see major major major titles get discussed by casual people like GTA/Skyrim/Pokemon/ETC, so to me it's anecdotal evidence of its success. Maybe they'll hire more staff and add the marketed features to the game now
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Inclusion should be a given until clarified otherwise.
That's the rub still. They never clarified anything, particularly the multiplayer question. They talked about it for years, on multiple documented occasions, and then shipped the game without it. Hell, some of their box said the game had it and then they put stickers over it.
Wooow. Just wow.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I'm dying here!
finalflame
Member
What experience do you have with game development?
It's one thing to mention a feature or two that you can't deliver. It's something else to grossly misrepresent a NUMBER of features which completely change the depth of the game. And now it's REALLY hard to take their vagueness as anything but deceitful.
Not only that, but the fact Sean has resumed a public presence without addressing the concerns about MP comes off as extremely disingenuous. I'm enjoying the game for the grindy procedurally generated gimped space minecraft that it is, but the communication has been grossly mishandled by Hello. Anyone still giving them credit at this point is being far too generous.
This. Plus, pre-order incentives were added. It was a shady launch, period. The game itself is pretty cool. It's a fun little indie game. This is irrelevant when talking about what was heavily promoted vs what consumers received.
This whole issue has sort of become this: "If you believe what developers say, you are a sucker. The onus is on you as a consumer to decipher the truth in any unreleased game, and the responsibility of the developer to be honest is meaningless because we should all assume they are always lying or possibly deluded."
I don't want to live in the above world because that world sucks. I want to know what I am buying before I buy it, no matter how humble or how grandiose. I don't think that's unreasonable.
Chill Penguin
Member
Has to be a troll post. Has to.
I'm actually surprised people have that much time on their hands. I barely find time to browse gaf once a day and people are compiling missing features in a video game........not to mention finding the time to play the game for so many hours before compiling this (I'm assuming he played a lot to confirm all that)
I mean there are 150k people subscribed over there, it's not like 10 people worked all night to make their list lol.
ForsakenLotus
Member
I want to feel bad for the guys at Hello Games for the backlash (although sales seem good), but from the beginning the vagueness of how No Man's Sky was described turned me off. And while there are certainly people who had unrealistic expectations for the game, it's unfair to discredit just how ambiguous yet ambitious the trailers and ideas for the game were and why there was this gulf between zealots who thought it would be the most fantastic game ever and those that ardently hoped it would be absolute trash.
It's sad, but it also in a way totally deserves the heat it's getting.
It's sad, but it also in a way totally deserves the heat it's getting.
This is amazing. I actually hope it's real because that would make it better.
newtypepilot
Member
is this the new copypasta?
That's so over the top it reads like a parody. I hope it isn't because it being legit is funnier. lol
As someone who was and still is completely uninterested in No Man's Sky, this whole debacle has been fascinating to follow. It's absolutely Sean's fault for creating this situation too and it's difficult to empathise with him considering how he has handled it so far. Sometimes online backlash isn't unjustified.
Are we actually sure planets don't rotate? I've definitely experience shifts from day to night, but do we know if that's caused by rotation or just shifting skyboxes?
I feel like someone would have to a time lapse video or something, but it's hard to stand in one place without worrying about falling life support.
Edit: And when you're checking out a ship to buy or looking at your own ship in the inventory screen, it shows what I think are the stats for that shit, suggesting differing capabilities between them.
I feel like someone would have to a time lapse video or something, but it's hard to stand in one place without worrying about falling life support.
Edit: And when you're checking out a ship to buy or looking at your own ship in the inventory screen, it shows what I think are the stats for that shit, suggesting differing capabilities between them.