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MGSV The Phantom Pain - One Year Later
- Thread starter Kindekuma
- Start date
Yeah. The atmosphere was really intense. One of the missing links that show in a perfect way that there aren't really good or bad guys/girls in the whole Metal Gear Storyline.
Except for Volgin and some other maniacs maybe.
Pretty much this. MGS5 and XCX compete with RE6 in disappointment department for me.
Good Guy Gone Bad
Member
Probably the sole disappointing entry in the mainline MGS series. After 1-4 blended interesting gameplay and stories for unique experiences, MGSV completely abandoned the story and all motivations that the player or characters should have in favor of focusing solely on gameplay.
Moment to moment gameplay is the best the series has to offer, but with no motivation to play the game, everything Kojima worked to create falls apart.
This will end up being the only MGS game I play once and never again.
Moment to moment gameplay is the best the series has to offer, but with no motivation to play the game, everything Kojima worked to create falls apart.
This will end up being the only MGS game I play once and never again.
It's funny: Guns of the Patriots soured me so much with its cringey characters and awful pacing that I nearly passed up GZ/TPP. I then spoiled myself on the twist to TPP around the time the "Quiet's Theme" trailer released. I was so excited by the twist that my hype for MGSV instantly shot through the roof.
I immediately bought GZ and played it in the week leading up to TPP. Both games fully delivered. I'm still amazed Kojima managed to make a game with gameplay this good, and that he managed to tell a story in a subtle, minimalist and thoughtful way. At long last, the narrative doesn't get in the way of gameplay, and the characters say more with what they don't say than what they do.
And then, just when Kojima was getting truly good as a gamemaker and storyteller... he leaves Konami.
I immediately bought GZ and played it in the week leading up to TPP. Both games fully delivered. I'm still amazed Kojima managed to make a game with gameplay this good, and that he managed to tell a story in a subtle, minimalist and thoughtful way. At long last, the narrative doesn't get in the way of gameplay, and the characters say more with what they don't say than what they do.
And then, just when Kojima was getting truly good as a gamemaker and storyteller... he leaves Konami.
Despite it being light on story and character(s), it still felt unmistakably like a MGS game. There's a style and way of doing things that *is* MGS and it did that.
It's one of the best playing games I've.. ever played. I actually enjoyed the story and most of the characters, but the game did have problems (an ambition that resources didn't allow for (time and money)). Either way, I'm pretty happy with the game.
I was a bit mixed at the time. I always felt the gameplay was top notch, but had mixed feelings about the story and general mission structure - problems still exist there but I look more favourably on them now.
It's one of the best playing games I've.. ever played. I actually enjoyed the story and most of the characters, but the game did have problems (an ambition that resources didn't allow for (time and money)). Either way, I'm pretty happy with the game.
I was a bit mixed at the time. I always felt the gameplay was top notch, but had mixed feelings about the story and general mission structure - problems still exist there but I look more favourably on them now.
SolidChamp
Banned
This nails it for me.
It was also a MGS game for those who had never played the series before and didn't know what made the games special to begin with.
Neff
Member
It's surprisingly and shockingly hard to get into on a second run, because it just feels like there's too much to do, and without enough variety or pacing switch-ups to hook me. A classic case of a shit-hot 20 hour game being epically spread 40-50 hour thin.
But damn if I didn't have the time of my life playing this game to completion last year. And I still think it's the best in the Metal Gear series.
I like MGS games, but I'm very low church on the series, and I think this is the distinction.
If you're willing to overlook long-established, esoteric rules being broken, and appreciate the game for what it is, it really shines.
But damn if I didn't have the time of my life playing this game to completion last year. And I still think it's the best in the Metal Gear series.
I like MGS games, but I'm very low church on the series, and I think this is the distinction.
If you're willing to overlook long-established, esoteric rules being broken, and appreciate the game for what it is, it really shines.
Shadow Ranger
Member
Disappointed. Still am. Awful open world for the sake of it. Story was worst yet, the pacing was not good, but the core gameplay was very good but sadly not enough to increase it overall in my mind.
Game is a complete tonal mess.
It starts off as a very strong narrative driven spy thriller, then it becomes a very barren open world game, then it becomes an F2P mobile time waster, then it becomes.. I dunno I lost interest and stopped playing.
First the main threat is about psychic warfare, then it's about mechanized warfare, then it's about biological warfare then it's about.. I dunno it got increasingly dumb as it waffled around with no direction and I zoned out.
I don't regret spending time on an unfinished game I didn't finish either. Because the stealth gameplay was at times incredibly involved and the cinematography was never not breathtaking, even if most of the time saw you running 20km through nothingness and battling annoying bullet sponges, while the story doesn't progress at all for ten hours at a time.
It starts off as a very strong narrative driven spy thriller, then it becomes a very barren open world game, then it becomes an F2P mobile time waster, then it becomes.. I dunno I lost interest and stopped playing.
First the main threat is about psychic warfare, then it's about mechanized warfare, then it's about biological warfare then it's about.. I dunno it got increasingly dumb as it waffled around with no direction and I zoned out.
I don't regret spending time on an unfinished game I didn't finish either. Because the stealth gameplay was at times incredibly involved and the cinematography was never not breathtaking, even if most of the time saw you running 20km through nothingness and battling annoying bullet sponges, while the story doesn't progress at all for ten hours at a time.
Funny this thread appeared, started this again and picked up where I left off at the start of chapter 2. Personally, it's the greatest sandbox game I've played. So many ways to play the game to keep things fresh and very satisfying mechanics.
My trouble with it is that I want more. The world needs to feel more alive, there's only so many desolate areas you can look at without it feeling monotonous. I would have loved to have met more charcters while walking round, more variety in missions but what there is, just superb.
My trouble with it is that I want more. The world needs to feel more alive, there's only so many desolate areas you can look at without it feeling monotonous. I would have loved to have met more charcters while walking round, more variety in missions but what there is, just superb.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It was? Why didn't anyone tell me?!
This is just wrong. I love MGS to death, the series has even influenced my career and I loved MGSV.
It feels weird when people say that the game is light on story when you have 4h of cutscenes and like 5h of tapes, sure it's shown to the player sparsely, but it's there.
cantona222
Member
It is in the Top 10 games of all time for me. What an experience.
Punished_Snake
Member
goty and maybe goat. People who don't like the game and say it's boring, they should watch big saru videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbVwiRCE41y11zIO1rKb9LA/videos
MGS V is freedom and creativity at their best.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbVwiRCE41y11zIO1rKb9LA/videos
MGS V is freedom and creativity at their best.
You and me bro. Apparently we didnt get the memo of what long time MGS fans expect of an MGS game to make them appreciate it.
agentofatlas
Member
What? Are you guys being serious here cause I love metal gear and I love mgsv.
Anyways I'll bite. What made the games so special to begin with that apparently people who like mgsv didn't know about?
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It seems it wasn't made for us:
Catchy as they are, these kind of trite generalisations have very little merit or meaning.
MGSV is Kojima's greatest achievement and a sign of his maturity by focusing on delivering what true Metal Gear fans expect from a game, while ignoring and abandoning the manchildren who cling on to the franchise drooling over cyborg ninjas and vampires while muttering "lore! mythos! canon!" as they drool into their body pillows.
SolidChamp
Banned
Something closer to 3, which was a masterpiece on all fronts.
MGSV is most certainly not a masterpiece.
How wonderfully insulting and condescending of you.
I'd bet you $10,000 the man himself is disappointed with how it turned out, considering it's not finished.
The gameplay was fine, possibly the best it's ever been. The setting, the characters, the overall story was just pathetically bad. There isn't one memorable character, couldn't care less about any of them, not one memorable mission. Just nothing that sticks out. Like I said gameplay mechanics good, more rounded and deeper than its ever been but everything else... He must of been smoking something.
It remains the second-most disappointing game I've ever played, after Skyrim. The only aspect saving it from claiming that most shameful title is how good the gameplay initially is. If the game ended after the first chapter, I'd probably have been okay with it, but having experienced the grind that the game becomes, you begin to see the threads holding the game together unravel, and the cut corners take centre-stage.
Outside of the focused mission-structure, the open worlds are desolate. Tiny bases with respawning enemies are the only distraction between winding roads of nothingness. The upgrades begin to get ridiculously expensive, and even when you can eventually afford them, the game can make you waste hours of in-game time before it lets you receive them. Enemy behaviour becomes absolutely predictable, and they pose no issues either through stealth (which has been stripped of its features from previous games) or combat. If the game was endlessly replayable with different approaches offering different results, there would be some merit to it, but the more you play, the more you see that all options get funneled into a linear path, and any choice the game offers you is a transparent illusion.
And the less said about the story, the better. At last, the MGS haters finally get a story worthy of their previously-philistinic criticism. The game strove for subtlety (a new frontier, perhaps), but succeeded only in being vague. Skullface is a poor villain who is attempted to be slotted into the series' lore, and only serves to cheapen past games by his non-presence. The tension and paranoia aboard Mother Base is made unconvincing due to the shallow narrative exposure it gets. By the same token, events can seem sudden and inexplicable, such as all the Huey stuff. Or we have the whole Eli situation, that doesn't get resolved at all. The best story content is in cassette form only, especially the hour-plus worth you get once you complete the game. However, enjoying those cassettes is bittersweet, since it's juxtaposed by the quality of the entire game that came before it.
I'm glad that those who enjoyed the game were able to do so. In my own circumstances, however, MGSV damaged the rest of the series in retrospect. I have no desire to play the previous games again, as the taint that MGSV has spread has yet to thin and dissolve for me.
Outside of the focused mission-structure, the open worlds are desolate. Tiny bases with respawning enemies are the only distraction between winding roads of nothingness. The upgrades begin to get ridiculously expensive, and even when you can eventually afford them, the game can make you waste hours of in-game time before it lets you receive them. Enemy behaviour becomes absolutely predictable, and they pose no issues either through stealth (which has been stripped of its features from previous games) or combat. If the game was endlessly replayable with different approaches offering different results, there would be some merit to it, but the more you play, the more you see that all options get funneled into a linear path, and any choice the game offers you is a transparent illusion.
And the less said about the story, the better. At last, the MGS haters finally get a story worthy of their previously-philistinic criticism. The game strove for subtlety (a new frontier, perhaps), but succeeded only in being vague. Skullface is a poor villain who is attempted to be slotted into the series' lore, and only serves to cheapen past games by his non-presence. The tension and paranoia aboard Mother Base is made unconvincing due to the shallow narrative exposure it gets. By the same token, events can seem sudden and inexplicable, such as all the Huey stuff. Or we have the whole Eli situation, that doesn't get resolved at all. The best story content is in cassette form only, especially the hour-plus worth you get once you complete the game. However, enjoying those cassettes is bittersweet, since it's juxtaposed by the quality of the entire game that came before it.
I'm glad that those who enjoyed the game were able to do so. In my own circumstances, however, MGSV damaged the rest of the series in retrospect. I have no desire to play the previous games again, as the taint that MGSV has spread has yet to thin and dissolve for me.
SolidChamp
Banned
A lot of these points aren't even subjective, they are how the game actually is.
Whether you personally enjoyed them as such is another matter entirely (and entirely fine).
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Anyone, absolutely anyone with the slightest idea of what game development is, cannot deny the utter brilliance behind MGSV's gameplay design.
It is a game that has numerous and complex mechanics but that is so masterfully crafted and designed that feels accessible, satisfying and rewarding in every sense.
Other developers cant make a simple shooting game feel satisfying in... well.. just shooting...
MGSV is a logistics nightmare from a gameplay development standpoint. I dont think anything out there even comes close to it. Every aspect feels so refined and works beautifully. There is a staggering amount of options available to the player, and mix and matching all the incredible tools/weapons and gadgets can create some amazing sequences that you simply cant find in any other game. Just look at how many gameplay functions has a simple cardboard box!!
The detail....in gameplay... the companions!! Those companions... give me a game that has a better companion than MGSV... the dog/horse are not only immaculately animated, they behave and react according to the situation at hand, the abilities that they have are not only different between each companion, but affect your playstyle/approach for each mission. Not only that you unlock new abilities and craft equipment for them.
Then you have Quiet who is probably the most fun to do mission with (apart of the damn hum she constantly is doing to let you know she has a target in her sights). Sniping entire camps was never as satisfying in any game ever.
We can say whatever we want about how Konami did not give Kojima the chance to complete the game 100% as he envisioned. But all those millions Kojima was asking Konami to make MGSV were absolutely worth it. No other game this complex was not only amazing to play, but at the same time refined as FUCK. Look at every open world game that comes out these days... it requires 6 patches to eliminate all bugs... MGSV shipped with just 1 bug worth mentioning (Quiet mission)... no lock ups, no freezes, no performance glitches, nothing. I am frankly astonished a game with such complex mechanics was just about perfect the day it shipped.
I honestly dont believe there is anything out there that feels and plays better than this game. And I dont believe there will be another game like it...you need a nerdy perfectionist with various OCD issues to craft it... basically you need a Kojima.
It is a game that has numerous and complex mechanics but that is so masterfully crafted and designed that feels accessible, satisfying and rewarding in every sense.
Other developers cant make a simple shooting game feel satisfying in... well.. just shooting...
MGSV is a logistics nightmare from a gameplay development standpoint. I dont think anything out there even comes close to it. Every aspect feels so refined and works beautifully. There is a staggering amount of options available to the player, and mix and matching all the incredible tools/weapons and gadgets can create some amazing sequences that you simply cant find in any other game. Just look at how many gameplay functions has a simple cardboard box!!
The detail....in gameplay... the companions!! Those companions... give me a game that has a better companion than MGSV... the dog/horse are not only immaculately animated, they behave and react according to the situation at hand, the abilities that they have are not only different between each companion, but affect your playstyle/approach for each mission. Not only that you unlock new abilities and craft equipment for them.
Then you have Quiet who is probably the most fun to do mission with (apart of the damn hum she constantly is doing to let you know she has a target in her sights). Sniping entire camps was never as satisfying in any game ever.
We can say whatever we want about how Konami did not give Kojima the chance to complete the game 100% as he envisioned. But all those millions Kojima was asking Konami to make MGSV were absolutely worth it. No other game this complex was not only amazing to play, but at the same time refined as FUCK. Look at every open world game that comes out these days... it requires 6 patches to eliminate all bugs... MGSV shipped with just 1 bug worth mentioning (Quiet mission)... no lock ups, no freezes, no performance glitches, nothing. I am frankly astonished a game with such complex mechanics was just about perfect the day it shipped.
I honestly dont believe there is anything out there that feels and plays better than this game. And I dont believe there will be another game like it...you need a nerdy perfectionist with various OCD issues to craft it... basically you need a Kojima.
deadscreensky
Member
Tremendous game. Have played it for 233 hours and counting.
There's some obvious missteps. There's no co-op, it has a weird chapter framing structure which creates inevitably unfilled expectations, there's not a lot of great boss fights, and the world should probably be more dynamic and filled with 'random' events. (Cross-gen is probably to blame for most of these, but that doesn't excuse it.) I think ultimately the game would have been better received, and maybe just better, if they backed off from the open world concept, instead making the game mostly a series of unconnected, tightly-designed Ground Zeroes-style bases. But open world is in vogue right now, and the structure does lead to some extremely unique and satisfying mission designs, like Where Do the Bees Sleep?
MGS5 just doesn't play like anything else out there, it's insanely big and ambitious, and the only truly bad thing about it is that it's an obvious foundation for more evolved, superior expressions of its ideas -- but it's not clear we'll ever see that.
Metal Gear fans can pretend it's some break from series tradition, but as somebody who's been playing the games since 1988 I can definitively state it's never really had much of a tradition. Metal Gear has always changed with the times, even when it wasn't trying weird new side things, and while it didn't always work it did usually lead to very interesting experiences. That doesn't mean you can't complain when you dislike a game -- MGS2 is fucking trash, you guys, really it is -- but it does make complaining about some sort of franchise purity a little silly.
There's some obvious missteps. There's no co-op, it has a weird chapter framing structure which creates inevitably unfilled expectations, there's not a lot of great boss fights, and the world should probably be more dynamic and filled with 'random' events. (Cross-gen is probably to blame for most of these, but that doesn't excuse it.) I think ultimately the game would have been better received, and maybe just better, if they backed off from the open world concept, instead making the game mostly a series of unconnected, tightly-designed Ground Zeroes-style bases. But open world is in vogue right now, and the structure does lead to some extremely unique and satisfying mission designs, like Where Do the Bees Sleep?
MGS5 just doesn't play like anything else out there, it's insanely big and ambitious, and the only truly bad thing about it is that it's an obvious foundation for more evolved, superior expressions of its ideas -- but it's not clear we'll ever see that.
Metal Gear fans can pretend it's some break from series tradition, but as somebody who's been playing the games since 1988 I can definitively state it's never really had much of a tradition. Metal Gear has always changed with the times, even when it wasn't trying weird new side things, and while it didn't always work it did usually lead to very interesting experiences. That doesn't mean you can't complain when you dislike a game -- MGS2 is fucking trash, you guys, really it is -- but it does make complaining about some sort of franchise purity a little silly.
I have absolutely no problem with the open world being "barren" between outposts. This isn't meant to be GTA full of nonstop distractions and meaningless filler. The open world is here to serve the bases and outposts, removing boundaries so you're free to take a virtually limitless number of approaches. Snipe from afar, drive in/out, lure guards into the wilderness, go Rambo, or ghost it all -- the choice is yours.
It's also used for a number of objectives where you follow, intercept or ambush targets moving between locations, like a tank convoy or runaway prisoner. Those stretches in between bases are smartly designed to facilitate all kinds of stalking, trap setting, eavesdropping, daring rescues and more. The open world knows what it's trying to accomplish, and it doesn't dilute its focus.
It's also used for a number of objectives where you follow, intercept or ambush targets moving between locations, like a tank convoy or runaway prisoner. Those stretches in between bases are smartly designed to facilitate all kinds of stalking, trap setting, eavesdropping, daring rescues and more. The open world knows what it's trying to accomplish, and it doesn't dilute its focus.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Tried to get back into it - thinking I may be able to get a few more trophies - but I gave up. What good is a mirror sheen polished gameplay when the locations are so boring?
Surprisingly enough, I went back to Ground Zeroes a number of times and played it from start to finish. Found Camp Omega to have infinitely more personality than anything in TPP put together.
Surprisingly enough, I went back to Ground Zeroes a number of times and played it from start to finish. Found Camp Omega to have infinitely more personality than anything in TPP put together.
Exactly! First of all, guess what... Afghanistan and Africa are barren in real life too... I know, shocking...
Second of all filling every inch of the map with distractions would be absolutely horribly stupid and would ruin the gameplay in so many ways...
Missions are designed to sometimes span huge distances... having distractions mess with your approach is not a very bright idea. MGSV is not GTA as fellow gaffer very well points out. Its an espionage open world game that wants to give you total freedom on how to approach each mission in various ways without having stupid things get in your way.
I don't think the open world being "barren" is a major problem in MGSV. What I do think could have served the game better is how it handled Side Ops. There are a shitton of them, and they got stale really fast. Yes, they're optional, no one is forced to do them, but when you present optional content to players on a list, it is expected that you are challenging them to try them out. When playing more and more of these missions make the game world less and less interesting, that's a flaw. I know people who got totally burnt out of MGSV because they felt compelled to keep playing Side Ops as they were available. Really unfortunate design there.
The Main Ops though... goddamn. Fucking masterpieces.
The Main Ops though... goddamn. Fucking masterpieces.
EvilKatarn
Member
It won't stop hurting.
Great game though, hoping to hop back in for a couple of hours tonight.
Great game though, hoping to hop back in for a couple of hours tonight.
The thing about side ops is true. And yes a lot of people got burnt out due to the side missions and/or replaying main missions over and over for that S rank.
Those are absolutely valid "complaints" in that respect. Those aspects are -imo- worth it only after completing the main campaign once. Finsih the main campaign without replaying main missions or doing random side ops, and then you get a much better paced MGS experience. After that, start messing around with side ops and go for S rank in main missions.
A good thing about sideops and replaying missions is that they somewhat adapt to your previous approaches (like guards wearing helmets if you do a lot of headshots) , so the game keeps forcing you to change your approach.
There's a lot of truth in what you say...but I can't agree that it's as tightly-designed as you think. For the occasions where the roads are used effectively, such as the mission where you track the truck from Nova Braga Airport, there are entire swathes of empty nothingness used in none of the missions, such as the swamps of the Bampeve Plantation. They serve only as empty space where you can listen to the repeated pants of Snake's running, or having to listen to him going "Hyah!" and smacking D-Horse for the 135,376th time.
I also don't understand that you say the game doesn't have meaningless filler. That's not true in the sense of the open world design, often having you travel long distances between landing zones and points of interest, or in mission design, such as all of the Side Ops, the insignificant differences amounting to supposed new Main Ops in Chapter 2, and animal capture. You can argue about the strength of many aspects of the Main Ops, and I won't argue them, but when analysing a game in its entirety, you need to analyse a game in its entirety, and MGSV is swollen with mobile-influenced filler design.
I love almost everything about this game. Top 3 games of all time. It's just so mechanically smooth and excellent, and quirky and weird in the best ways possible.
Yeah, there are some issues with the structure of the plot. Sure. But other than that, it's approaching perfection for me.
I saw some post in one of the other recent MGSV threads that basically outlined a different way they could have framed the existing content that made it flow a lot better without really needing to add anything. I wish I could link it, but I don't remember where it was...
Structured like that, it would honestly have been a 100/100 for me.
Yeah, there are some issues with the structure of the plot. Sure. But other than that, it's approaching perfection for me.
I saw some post in one of the other recent MGSV threads that basically outlined a different way they could have framed the existing content that made it flow a lot better without really needing to add anything. I wish I could link it, but I don't remember where it was...
Structured like that, it would honestly have been a 100/100 for me.
deadscreensky
Member
There's definitely some merit to the approach, but I think the problem is how static the open world is. I don't need strip clubs and a bowling minigame with Kaz, but I just want something unexpected to happen as I'm wandering around Africa and Afghanistan. Maybe a tank convoy, or different PMC groups fighting each other, replacement AA guns so certain helicopter routes aren't reliable until I find them and shut them down, truly hidden snipers camping a base in ambush for Big Boss making another of his kidnapping runs, or a couple lost Skulls wandering around a place I assumed was safe. MGS5's sandbox is just so predictable and when the game is filled with such interesting tools and fantastic combat it's a dirty shame how much you need to actively work to create fresh scenarios. You have a kitchen loaded with different foods and spices and it just wants to keep serving you the same hamburgers with the occasional chicken sandwich.
I want the game's world to surprise me, and a few hours in it basically stops doing that. It doesn't even need to surprise me that often, it could be its current barren self 90% of the time and that would be fine. Might even make the surprises more entertaining!
Totally with you... then you said that
I knew that was going to be a unpopular statement...
I did actually have an enormous amount of fun with the Substance missions. A lot of the pacing and storytelling problems disappear there, though the clunky controls would probably be really hard to go back to today.
The side ops are technically never-ending since they reactivate after a while, so I don't think anyone should burn themselves out trying do them all (aside from the plot-related ones for the Paz subplot, Man on Fire, AI Pod, etc).
They're mainly a way to ensure that 1) you always have a prisoner to rescue, a soldier to extract, a tank unit to defeat, etc, should you want an objective while free-roaming in the sandbox, and 2) to provide another way to procure resources without having to repeat story missions (although you can still replay main ops if you want).
I'm thankful for them. Sometimes I'll clear out a few side ops in hopes of a new prisoner extraction mission appearing.
SolidChamp
Banned
I don't like you, at all, but I absolutely agree with everything you're saying here.
Mexen
Member
So I picked this game up some weeks ago on Steam. It is well optimized and the keyboard is well mapped TBH (still prefer the controller). Gameplay is absolutely the best I have ever experienced in a Metal Gear Solid game (possibly ever, in any game TBH).
I felt the plot was lacking in many aspects but the little we got is still enjoyable. MGO is absolute fun. I have definitely had great times with this game.
I felt the plot was lacking in many aspects but the little we got is still enjoyable. MGO is absolute fun. I have definitely had great times with this game.