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- RetroUSB AVS - Real Hardware HDMI NES Clone Console

P

Polioliolio

Member
dcx4610 said:
Played through Double Dragon 2 tonight and I love how accurate the AVS is. DDII has a massive amount of video glitches on its borders and AVS retains them perfectly.

Obviously the AVS should be 100% perfect as long as the FPGA is programmed correctly but it's still cool to see it in actual practice. I've seen or heard nothing so far that makes me think something is wrong on all of the games I've thrown at it.

I'm not sure how much time I'll actually devote to the system but I still love knowing I can now play my NES games in high definition with big, beautiful, crisp pixels.
Click to expand...

Sweet.
I was thinking recently about how I need to give a solid effort and beat this game. AVS will be a good excuse for it.

Always get to the shadow temple then die in 3 seconds at the vanishing platforms.
 
B

bar mitzvah

Neo Member
Mine will be here tomorrow. I just got a 4K TV so I am really excited to try this thing out. Where is the best place to acquire an Everdrive?
 
M

mosaic

go eat paint
So much for going to bed at a decent hour. I played through Super Mario Bros, Double Dragon 2, and Crisis Force tonight, as well as putted around in Zelda. Color palette, aspect, scanlines... Just loving the whole experience.

I settled on pixel aspect 2 ticks and scanlines at 3 ticks. Looks good on my set without too much fatness.

AVS is definitely sensitive to oxidized contacts though. I thought I'd cleaned my games nicely before, but I had to really polish a few deep-style before they'd work.
 
P

Paskil

Member
Got my shipped notification at work earlier today. Am hype. Hope it arrives quickly. Been holding off on playing a few games.
 
T

Trakdown

Member
Finally got to plug mine in. Happy with it, but I was wondering if anybody had the SMB/Duck Hunt/World Class Track Meet cart and had any problems getting it to work? I had it loading on my original NES just fine but it wouldn't work on the AVS. Not a huge loss, but interested in finding out why.
 
riskVSreward

riskVSreward

Member
MooMilk2929 said:
You have to submit the score on certain screens in each game:

http://vintage.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=106&threadid=166514
Click to expand...

dcx4610 said:
You need a NintendoAge account. After that, you generate a Scoreboard key from their site. Once you do that, launch Scoreboard, connect your AVS and on your profile tab it should show your NintendoAge username.

http://vintage.nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=106&threadid=166537
Click to expand...

Thanks guys! Got it set up, now I must crush Millipede!
 
riskVSreward

riskVSreward

Member
Ok so I got caught up in Contra, uploaded my score to find this...
QNtbYir.jpg
Click to expand...
I know now what I must do...
 
riskVSreward

riskVSreward

Member
Harlock said:
Anyone played this in comparison with a ropsbery pi or PC emulator to see how much changes the experience?
Click to expand...
It depends on the accuracy of the emulator and things like Bluetooth lag or controller responsiveness. This is for people with NES carts and controllers who want an accurate output on modern tvs with no discernable lag.
 
Harlock

Harlock

Member
Interesting. The main difference are the input lags, not the game speed or visual? But an USB wired controller in emulator would not have the same input lag than the AVS with NES wired controllers?
 
riskVSreward

riskVSreward

Member
Harlock said:
Interesting. The main difference are the input lags, not the game speed or visual? But an USB wired controller in emulator would not have the same input lag than the AVS with NES wired controllers?
Click to expand...
I would say most emulators do a decent job emulating the NES, it all depends on what you're looking for in the experience. The biggest difference is that this uses actual carts, not roms.
 
M

Mega

Banned
Punch-Out. Zanac (any hectic shooter really). Parts of the Mario platformers. Many others.These games become difficult on emulator.

Retroarch adds significant input lag on top of my HDTV's lag. The Hi-Def mod adds none, making games playable. This carries over to the AVS which adds no extra lag to the experience and being a great buy for that reason.

Harlock said:
Interesting. The main difference are the input lags, not the game speed or visual? But an USB wired controller in emulator would not have the same input lag than the AVS with NES wired controllers?
Click to expand...

Controller input lag is a separate problem, and even there my understanding is that USB controllers are often slower than traditional controller inputs. But the main culprit is the emulator itself adding lag. Emulators on Android are the worst. PC emulators are better but many still ads significant lag. All depends on the specific emulator. I know GroovyMame on a CRT has excellent (extremely low) input lag. http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=133194.0
 
G

gamefan

Member
Mega said:
Pi and PC emulator add a ton of input lag. I think they make some NES games unplayable.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but PC emulators do not always add a ton of input lag. There are many variables involved and on my setup, I have no perceivable input lag.

Back on topic, with all the good press on the RetroUSB, I might have to pick one up.
 
M

Mega

Banned
gamefan said:
Sorry, but PC emulators do not always add a ton of input lag. There are many variables involved and on my setup, I have no perceivable input lag.

Back on topic, with all the good press on the RetroUSB, I might have to pick one up.
Click to expand...

They generally do. You can see for yourself in this person's various tests of Retroarch, Retropie, SNES9x, Nestopia, BSNES and Higan:

https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/2019/an-input-lag-investigation/2

http://libretro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428&page=30

http://libretro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428&page=32&p=44858&viewfull=1#post44858

If you know of emulators that have low lag, I'd like to know about it as I'm always on the lookout for anything that improves my experience (even my next TV will be sub-20ms lag because I can still feel the 40ms on my plasma with the Hi-Def mod that adds no lag itself). I posted above that GroovyMame (and regular MAME?) is one such example and it's awesome.

edit: I should also mention I own several CRTs and have grown accustomed to basically zero lag in the past year. Individual sensitivity is always another factor.
 
dcx4610

dcx4610

Member
Harlock said:
Anyone played this in comparison with a ropsbery pi or PC emulator to see how much changes the experience?
Click to expand...

For me, it's accuracy more than anything that's the most important. Some emulators get close but there's always something off with the sound, graphics or color.

For a lot of us that have played these games all of our lives, you know them front to back and if anything is "off", it just ruins it for me.

The AVS has been flawless so far for me. I mentioned Double Dragon 2 before and that gave is riddled with garbage video data and it's exactly the same on the AVS. That kind of stuff may be trivial but it's important to me.
 
G

gamefan

Member
Mega said:
They generally do. You can see for yourself in this person's various tests of Retroarch, Retropie, SNES9x, Nestopia, BSNES and Higan:

https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/2019/an-input-lag-investigation/2

http://libretro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428&page=30

http://libretro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428&page=32&p=44858&viewfull=1#post44858

If you know of emulators that have low lag, I'd like to know about it as I'm always on the lookout for anything that improves my experience (even my next TV will be sub-20ms lag because I can still feel the 40ms on my plasma with the Hi-Def mod that adds no lag itself). I posted above that GroovyMame (and regular MAME?) is one such example and it's awesome.

edit: I should also mention I own several CRTs and have grown accustomed to basically zero lag in the past year. Individual sensitivity is always another factor.
Click to expand...


My setup is a PC with a 980ti video card, connected to an Asus 27 G-Sync monitor, and a Sony FW900 monitor. When I run Retroarch on the ASUS, I turn VSync off. When I run it on the Sony, VSync is on. I use a USB wired Madcatz Xbox 360 Fightstick (modded with different stick and buttons) for most of my emulators and notice almost no lag on these 2 setups.

For reference, I currently own the last generation Pioneer Kuro Plasma, a Panasonic ST50 Plasma, a Sony 34XBR960 TV, Sony 30X955 TV, 1 Sony BVM, 2 Sony PVMs, 2 Sony PGMs, 2 Sony FW900s and other RGB monitors. I also own the last 3 Micomsoft XRGB devices, multiple scalers, line doublers and transcoders.

My point in mentioning all the stuff I use, is that I like you, game on CRTs and am very sensitive to input lag. I can honestly say that my setup above is very close (lag wise) to the actual hardware running on my PVM sitting right behind me. Is there no lag, no there is some lag but not a "ton" like you said.
 
B

bobble

Member
if anyone has a gradius 2 cart handy i'd appreciate it if they'd test it out - mine shows the start screen and upgrade path fine but then is a super strange glitch where it only shows half the screen. works fine on my famicom !!! otherwise i've had nothing but a great time, but gradius 2 was one of my first carts i plugged in and it kind of bummed me out
 
dcx4610

dcx4610

Member
bobble said:
if anyone has a gradius 2 cart handy i'd appreciate it if they'd test it out - mine shows the start screen and upgrade path fine but then is a super strange glitch where it only shows half the screen. works fine on my famicom !!! otherwise i've had nothing but a great time, but gradius 2 was one of my first carts i plugged in and it kind of bummed me out
Click to expand...

I don't have the cart but I just tried it on the Everdrive and it worked fine. Might want to post on the NintendoAge thread that bunnyboy monitors to see if anyone else can test it.

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?StartRow=1&catid=7&threadid=92557
 
T

Timu

Member
Mega said:
They generally do. You can see for yourself in this person's various tests of Retroarch, Retropie, SNES9x, Nestopia, BSNES and Higan:

https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/2019/an-input-lag-investigation/2

http://libretro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428&page=30

http://libretro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5428&page=32&p=44858&viewfull=1#post44858

If you know of emulators that have low lag, I'd like to know about it as I'm always on the lookout for anything that improves my experience (even my next TV will be sub-20ms lag because I can still feel the 40ms on my plasma with the Hi-Def mod that adds no lag itself). I posted above that GroovyMame (and regular MAME?) is one such example and it's awesome.

edit: I should also mention I own several CRTs and have grown accustomed to basically zero lag in the past year. Individual sensitivity is always another factor.
Click to expand...
All this talk about input lag yet I can beat Contra and Ninja Gaiden(1st 2) NES games on emulators with no deaths.
 
E

EnergizerFellow

Member
Mega said:
I know GroovyMame on a CRT has excellent (extremely low) input lag.
Click to expand...

Heads up that the author of GroovyMAME, Calamaty, is now an official contributor to the main MAME mothership. The integer scaling options have already been added (0.172 & 0.173), along with the audio speed/pitch fixes (0.177).

If you're on an Nvidia GPU, setting the maximum pre-rendered frames to 1 and enabling fast sync does wonders, though you don't really need the latter if you've got a G-Sync monitor.
 
M

Mega

Banned
gamefan said:
My setup is a PC with a 980ti video card, connected to an Asus 27 G-Sync monitor, and a Sony FW900 monitor. When I run Retroarch on the ASUS, I turn VSync off. When I run it on the Sony, VSync is on. I use a USB wired Madcatz Xbox 360 Fightstick (modded with different stick and buttons) for most of my emulators and notice almost no lag on these 2 setups.

For reference, I currently own the last generation Pioneer Kuro Plasma, a Panasonic ST50 Plasma, a Sony 34XBR960 TV, Sony 30X955 TV, 1 Sony BVM, 2 Sony PVMs, 2 Sony PGMs, 2 Sony FW900s and other RGB monitors. I also own the last 3 Micomsoft XRGB devices, multiple scalers, line doublers and transcoders.

My point in mentioning all the stuff I use, is that I like you, game on CRTs and am very sensitive to input lag. I can honestly say that my setup above is very close (lag wise) to the actual hardware running on my PVM sitting right behind me. Is there no lag, no there is some lag but not a "ton" like you said.
Click to expand...

That's pretty nice. In a nutshell, I have 8 CRTs including a BVM, PVM, a few different HD and SD JVCs, Ikegami, a ST50, an older Sony LCD and a Korean IPS. I don't have a huge place, or else I would have hung on to my 20M4U and my other BVM which I sold pretty cheap to a fellow Gaffer, plus snatched up other stuff. I nearly caved on that GDM (and the PGM) but I wouldn't have a spot for either. Doesn't help living in a walk up, so I limit purchases to what I can physically carry without killing myself. I'm on the wait list for the OSSC and have a couple of HDMI modded 1080p Nintendo systems in the meantime. I'm keeping a keen eye on 10-bit 4K OLED... LG almost nailed it with some of their recent models but I'm waiting for input lag to come down below 30ms (preferably 20) with HDR enabled, and for the HDR standard to firm up.

Anyhow, it has been measured that PC and Android emulators do have significant lag. A ton is a simple vague descriptor but it fits since the lag ranges from 70ms to beyond 100ms, which would be rated as "poor" by some sites if such lag came from the display itself... And this is on top of whatever lag your display does introduce. Your Asus and Sony CRT with zero/little lag are a major benefit to minimizing this effect; my ST50 adds 40ms on top and makes it worse enough to affect game performance.

So this isn't a trivial amount added by the emulators. There are even efforts in those linked threads for finding ways to decrease it. This isn't about just our perceptions and tolerances because I can even forget about the lag on my own ST50 and just play sometimes (game dependent I guess). That doesn't mean it isn't there. With my above mentioned future TV purchase, a lagless scaler like the OSSC and hardware that doesn't mitigate any problems further I'm hoping to get to a HD setup where I myself can't feel the lag either, regardless of the game I'm playing.
 
T

Timu

Member
I've been using emulators for years and don't complain about input lag, and I'm someone who is sensitive to that. I can't play a shump with input lag yet I still do perfectly well with them on emulators so that says something.

Well I'm glad the Retro USB AVS doesn't have any, makes me want it even more!
 
M

Mega

Banned
Timu said:
I've been using emulators for years and don't complain about input lag, and I'm someone who is sensitive to that. I can't play a shump with input lag yet I still do perfectly well with them on emulators so that says something.

Well I'm glad the Retro USB AVS doesn't have any, makes me want it even more!
Click to expand...

I don't sense any lag on Mame either... but it is apparent to me elsewhere (cores in RetroArch, Android emulators on my GPD XD). I kept dying in Zanac for days, then "1CC'd" the first night when I got back on my RGB Fami and BVM.
 
T

Timu

Member
Mega said:
I don't sense any lag on Mame either... but it is apparent to me elsewhere (cores in RetroArch, Android emulators on my GPD XD). I kept dying in Zanac for days, then "1CC'd" the first night when I got back on my RGB Fami and BVM.
Click to expand...
I don't use RetroArch and those Android emulators!!!=O I do use MAME and various others and don't have complaints. I still 1CC games on them as well.=p
 
BobbyColtrane

BobbyColtrane

Member
I salute you "git gud" guys that can play on emulators and kick ass.

But for me there is nothing like plugging my cart into the AVS and using my own personal 30 year old controller to play those old games. Especially now that I can share that experience with my sons. :)
 
L

Lettuce

Member
Must admit ive never notice input lag to a point where im dying in a game because of it, im not saying its not there it just doesn't seem to effect my gameplay
 
Mihos

Mihos

Gold Member
Lettuce said:
Must admit ive never notice input lag to a point where im dying in a game because of it, im not saying its not there it just doesn't seem to effect my gameplay
Click to expand...

Mike Tysons Punchout is the one I notice it the most on. I can 1 credit the whole game on the original console, but always have trouble on anything else... ironically, WiiU is the worst offender.
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
Am I the only one who feels the top part of the casing has a bit of a yellowish look to it like the gray has aged slightly? I was kind of expecting it to look more like the picture on the box.
 
P

Polioliolio

Member
bobble said:
if anyone has a gradius 2 cart handy i'd appreciate it if they'd test it out - mine shows the start screen and upgrade path fine but then is a super strange glitch where it only shows half the screen. works fine on my famicom !!! otherwise i've had nothing but a great time, but gradius 2 was one of my first carts i plugged in and it kind of bummed me out
Click to expand...

I can test it for you...

Once my AVS shows up... Tomorrow!

I was thinking about ways I would modify the AVS for some things.. Like maybe cutting out a hole on the side of the flap, for the Famicom disk RAM adapter wire to comfortably slip to the side.

Haven't though of a good way to handle the lid for famicom carts. Short of cutting out a hole on the top, with spring loaded flaps, but that's not something I can manage..
 
P

Paskil

Member
Got mine today but busy with FFIV playthrough on PSP. Ebayed copies of Goonies and Akumajo Special: Boku Dracula-kun for Famicom and will probably bust it out to play when Goonies comes earlyish next week. Pretty excited but want to try it first with a Famicom game.
 
dolabla

dolabla

Member
Boom shakalaka! Got the notification that it shipped! I really need to clean my carts though. Gonna try and get around to it tomorrow.
 
D

Dealer A

Neo Member
bobble said:
if anyone has a gradius 2 cart handy i'd appreciate it if they'd test it out - mine shows the start screen and upgrade path fine but then is a super strange glitch where it only shows half the screen. works fine on my famicom !!! otherwise i've had nothing but a great time, but gradius 2 was one of my first carts i plugged in and it kind of bummed me out
Click to expand...

I just tested my copy on the AVS and it worked just fine. It might sound dumb, but have you tried cleaning the cart?
 
P

Paskil

Member
Nevermind, my PSP is being an asshole. Tried out Goonies II, Chip n Dale, SMB 3, Mega Man 3, and Lode Runner. All ran great and started up on the first try. Had to clean two games since they started with the glitchy screen. Kind of wish the cart started right up rather than the menu. Maybe an option to either start to the menu, or a button on the console to go to the menu. Oh well.

Works great although the color needs work. Mario's fireballs were green at first toss.
 
P

Polioliolio

Member
Paskil said:
Nevermind, my PSP is being an asshole. Tried out Goonies II, Chip n Dale, SMB 3, Mega Man 3, and Lode Runner. All ran great and started up on the first try. Had to clean two games since they started with the glitchy screen. Kind of wish the cart started right up rather than the menu. Maybe an option to either start to the menu, or a button on the console to go to the menu. Oh well.

Works great although the color needs work. Mario's fireballs were green at first toss.
Click to expand...

You're talking about AVS right? You can have it boot straight to game. Check the menu.

Also, green fireball at first toss? Whachoo talkin bout?
 
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