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[KahooTs]

Are you talking about the books or TV show?

What is Davos fate?

Books, can't predict the show. You've asked about one of my blind spots, his ultimate fate I'm not sure.

When Jon declares KITN Davos will be his Hand. [1] When Jon marches south of Tyrion's throne a climactic battle will occur at the God's Eye, there Davos will be part of an archery team (lead by Arya) that will bring down Viserion ridden by Tyrion, probably with weirwood arrows from the Isle of Faces. Viserion will die [2].

The narrow sea will literally run dry [3] and Drogon will turn to stone somewhere around Dragonstone. Dany will be searching for Drogon to wake him from stone. And Jon will go searching for Dany to prevent her from doing it. Davos is going to locate Stone Drogon for either one of Dany or Jon, I'm not sure but I think Jon, I think Dany will find it herself and Davos locates Drogon and Dany there with the dragon in time. And Davos will fight with Jon against Dany's sworn swords to prevent her from waking Drogon from stone. At some point in the dried out narrow sea Davos is going to find his fingerbones, his luck, I'm thinking before he locates Stone Drogon. [4]

After that I don't know, maybe hand for the IT at the end (Jon won't be king).

[1] Besides it being apparent Davos is a good Hand type of guy, Daeron the Young Dragon foreshadows Jon. Jon will fall into the KITN role when Stannis falls. Jon will keep Davos on as hand as Daeron kept on his predecessor's hand.

[2]

In those centuries of trial and tumult, the Reach produced many a fearless warrior. From that day to this, the singers have celebrated the deeds of knights like Serwyn of the Mirror Shield, Davos the Dragonslayer, Roland of the Horn, and the Knight Without Armor—and the legendary kings who led them, among them Garth V (Hammer of the Dornish), Gwayne I (the Gallant), Gyles I (the Woe), Gareth II (the Grim), Garth VI (the Morningstar), and Gordan I (Grey-Eyes).

Aemond Targaryen is a Tyrion parallel by virtue of kinslaying, mismatched eyes, said to be half the size of his brother on his birth, etc. Aemond died by way of Dark Sister through the eye, above the God's Eye. He fell in. Dark Sister for Arya.

The dragon Tessarion (name association with Viserion) was put down with an arrow through the eye.

Black Aly is an Arya parallel. She lead the lads, particularly a contingent of archers, out of the Riverlands during the end of the Dance when Cregan Stark and the Winter Wolves descended on the throne, successfully fighting their way through the Riverlands and at the God's Eye. Think the BWB remnants, Arya's fantasy that she could return to them like Wenda the White Fawn (a the leader of the previous Riverlands rebellion) that Anguy could teach her archery.

"One of your northmen hit me with a Morningstar during the battle on the Green Fork. I escaped him by falling off my horse."

Tyrion to Sansa. Foreshadowing for a northman bringing down his dragon in the Riverlands. He'll survive by falling off into the God's Eye.

"Well, how long does a dragon live?" She looked up as Viserion swooped low over the ship, his wings beating slowly and stirring the limp sails.

Davos' sigil is a ship and sails.

A full moon floated above the mast. It is following me downriver, watching me like some great eye. Despite the warmth of the musty skins that covered him, a shiver went through the little man.

General foreboding great eye for Tyrion.

[3]

"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east," said Mirri Maz Duur. "When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before."

And all the narrow sea once being a much smaller inland lake speculation in TWOIAF.

[4] Dany waking the dragon and stone Drogon is its own issue.

Relating specifically to Davos, Davos is foreshadowed by Tom Tangletongue. The bloke who wasn't comfortable speaking due to his stammer as Davos isn't comfortable speaking in high company because of his low birth. Tom thus listened more than he spoke and was wiser for it, like Davos. At the end of the dance Tom worked out Aegon's dragon was still alive by plying sailors with alcohol and listening to them, the same method Davos uses in the Belly of the Whale. Tom locates the dragon for his king.

Drogon will turn to stone and also become a Sea Dragon. These two are heavily associated with Davos at Dragonstone, by way of Sea Dragon Tower where he learns to read and the stone dragons. This is the choicest quote.

Davos had often heard it said that the wizards of Valyria did not cut and chisel as common masons did, but worked stone with fire and magic as a potter might work clay. But now he wondered. What if they were real dragons, somehow turned to stone?

Generally the plot will retread Stannis and Mel trying to wake the dragon with Edric, but with Dany playing their part and Davos replaying his, helping Jon to prevent it.

Jon stopping Dany I think will parallel the TOJ battle, it will parallel Aegon taking Dragonstone from Rhaenyra.The fingerbones is just connecting the sea running dry to where Davos lost them and where he'll be in future, and that he keeps harking on having lost his luck. I don't know where or when but Davos will save Arya at some stage, as Tom saved Arya parallel Lady Baela.

 

[butzopower]

I can and will explain most everything that is going to happen in the broad strokes and a lot of the detail, if anyone cares to ask. You almost certainly won't believe me, until TWOW anyway, but that doesn't matter, I'm bored and at worst it might spark conversation. I'll need a specific question to answer, any takers?

What game is Littlefinger playing?

 

[Yonafunu]

Are you just guessing/predicting?

 

[Poimandres]

Books, can't predict the show *words*.

Thanks for the very detailed response!

It will be very interesting to see if this comes to pass.

 

[KahooTs]

What game is Littlefinger playing?

Don't know besides the specifics he revealed. He doesn't have an arc, he hasn't and isn't changing, just amassing more power, he's just a catalyst for other events and primarily a part of Sansa's arc as her teacher, making him hard to predict, for me anyway. I don't know who his queens are in the war he thinks is coming.

Only two ways I can see him going, his death coinciding with Sansa's emergence as a player and from the Vale, or he survives that to hang around and butt heads with Varys, as the Spider vs the Mockingbird has sort of been brewing. I lean towards the first, once Sansa becomes the player his usefulness seems about up, and the Ghost of Highheart's dream of the maid slaying the giant in a castle made of snow, while I don't think is about Sansa killing him, I think her killing him (in the Eyrie) might be used as a red herring for its meaning.

Are you just guessing/predicting?

Predicting, I certainly don't have any inside info.

 

[Houndi101]

Have to say I really enjoyed the Balticon chapter and it reminded me how ready I am for TWoW

 

[Poimandres]

I had a dream the other night that TWOW was suddenly released and I was at a bookshop purchasing a copy, super excited, then I thought "wait, is this a dream?" and promptly woke up. Damnit!

 

[Black_Sun]

Don't know besides the specifics he revealed. He doesn't have an arc, he hasn't and isn't changing, just amassing more power, he's just a catalyst for other events and primarily a part of Sansa's arc as her teacher, making him hard to predict, for me anyway. I don't know who his queens are in the war he thinks is coming.

Only two ways I can see him going, his death coinciding with Sansa's emergence as a player and from the Vale, or he survives that to hang around and butt heads with Varys, as the Spider vs the Mockingbird has sort of been brewing. I lean towards the first, once Sansa becomes the player his usefulness seems about up, and the Ghost of Highheart's dream of the maid slaying the giant in a castle made of snow, while I don't think is about Sansa killing him, I think her killing him (in the Eyrie) might be used as a red herring for its meaning.Predicting, I certainly don't have any inside info.

Nah the snow castle is most definitely Winterfell that Sansa will be killing him at.

There's a pretty good idea of Sanss finding Jeyne Poole at Winterfell and being the catalyst behind Sansa betraying LF once she tells her about how he sold her as a sex slave and then to Ramsay.

I also have an idea that LF is going to have Rickon poisoned to death a la Sweetrobin and put the blame on Jon Snow in order to advance Sansa. People will thinks it's him but Sansa will recognize LF's MO and have him killed.

That'll make the holy trio all suspected kinslayers Daenerys kills Aegon, Tyrion kills Joffrey and Jon kills Rickon.

Anyways I think LF's end-goal is pretty obvious. Make Sansa the queen of everything, kill SR, kill Harrold, kill all the other Stark's that might get in his way and impregnate her while she's married to Harrold but passing the kid off as his.

That's what mockingbirds do. They sometimes lay their eggs in another bird's nest.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

The narrow sea turning dry? A living dragon turning to stone? That's not the story Martin is writing. Way too much magic, way too little time.

 

[butzopower]

That's what mockingbirds do. They sometimes lay their eggs in another bird's nest.

Makes me think Littlefinger is Robert Arryn's father. Laid an egg in the falcon's nest.

 

[KahooTs]

Nah the snow castle is most definitely Winterfell that Sansa will be killing him at.

There's a pretty good idea of Sanss finding Jeyne Poole at Winterfell and being the catalyst behind Sansa betraying LF once she tells her about how he sold her as a sex slave and then to Ramsay.

I also have an idea that LF is going to have Rickon poisoned to death a la Sweetrobin and put the blame on Jon Snow in order to advance Sansa. People will thinks it's him but Sansa will recognize LF's MO and have him killed.

That'll make the holy trio all suspected kinslayers Daenerys kills Aegon, Tyrion kills Joffrey and Jon kills Rickon.

Anyways I think LF's end-goal is pretty obvious. Make Sansa the queen of everything, kill SR, kill Harrold, kill all the other Stark's that might get in his way and impregnate her while she's married to Harrold but passing the kid off as his.

That's what mockingbirds do. They sometimes lay their eggs in another bird's nest.

Sansa's not going to WF and she has the information which will lead to her destroying LF, Lysa spilled it which was why LF pushed her out the door. Like with many other things, it's a matter of Sansa acknowledging that which she was told. Jeyne Poole? Please, LF purposely drags the Starks into war and pits them again the Lannisters, leading to the destruction of House Stark and deaths of Sansa's father and brother, but Jeyne Poole is going to be the catalyst for Sansa turning on him? It's bizarre the propensity for people to turn to the most underwhelming possibilities in this series.

The narrow sea turning dry? A living dragon turning to stone? That's not the story Martin is writing. Way too much magic, way too little time.

Like this, as though a 7 book epic fantasy series is being layered up to pull punches.

 

[Black_Sun]

Makes me think Littlefinger is Robert Arryn's father. Laid an egg in the falcon's nest.

A Robin is also a different bird from a falcon.

And most likely. Someone brought it up to GRRM and GRRM just said something along the lines that it's not really provable that Robin isn't Jon Arryn's because of there not being any DNA tests.

Harrold Hardying is also said to look like Jon Arryn. Tall, muscled, blonde, blue eyes and muscular.

Does this sound like Robert Arryn who is small, skinny, weak, sickly, dark haired and pale?

You know who else is small, skinny, weak, dark haired and pale? Littlefinger.

 

[Black_Sun]

Sansa's not going to WF and she has the information which will lead to her destroying LF, Lysa spilled it which was why LF pushed her out the door. Like with many other things, it's a matter of Sansa acknowledging that which she was told. Jeyne Poole? Please, LF purposely drags the Starks into war and pits them again the Lannisters, leading to the destruction of House Stark and deaths of Sansa's father and brother, but Jeyne Poole is going to be the catalyst for Sansa turning on him? It's bizarre the propensity for people to turn to the most underwhelming possibilities in this series.

But Sansa never really thinks about it again. Sansa needs a catalyst.

And Sansa doesn't know anything about LF pulling the strings of the Lannister-Stark war.

 

[KahooTs]

But Sansa never really thinks about it again. Sansa needs a catalyst.

And Sansa doesn't know anything about LF pulling the strings of the Lannister-Stark war.

It's there in Lysa's words, both strokes, JA's death and the letter. Two things have to happen, first Sansa has to learn to think like a player, then she can piece it together and understand what LF did. Second she has to be willing to acknowledge it.

"Tears, tears, tears," she sobbed hysterically. "No need for tears . . . but that's not what you said in King's Landing. You told me to put the tears in Jon's wine, and I did. For Robert, and for us! And I wrote Catelyn and told her the Lannisters had killed my lord husband, just as you said. That was so clever . . . you were always clever, I told Father that, I said Petyr's so clever, he'll rise high, he will, he will, and he's sweet and gentle and I have his little baby in my belly . . . Why did you kiss her? Why? We're together now, we're together after so long, so very long, why would you want to kiss herrrrrr?"

And Sansa does later think that Lysa poisoned her husband, but she's conveniently leaving the part about writing Catelyn and blaming the Lannisters out of her recollections. Same as how she's conveniently refusing to acknowledge that the Harry plan requires murdering SR. It's a state of denial, wilful repression regarding the savageness of the game of thrones.

 

[Cornballer]

Via WiCnet / reddit, a reddit user compiles info on 1599 A Song of Ice and Fire characters in a huge spreadsheet. Second link is a direct link to the google doc if you want to check it out. It only covers the characters through AFFC.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Damn, that's an impressive list.

 

[harriet the spy]

I don't even care anymore if all the books come out since I have more or less given up on them (plus, ok, book 6 comes out. How many years until 7? How many books does he really need to wrap it up? Does he actually enjoy writing in that universe ?)
My only want would be to not only get closure from the show - I would very much like him to actually give up and reveal what he had roughly planned - especially since show departs from books do significantly. Basically I want to know what happens to LSH.

 

[Bounceounce]

I hate how people act as though Theon only became a good/well written or interesting or "sympathetic" and compelling character in Dance when he probably had the best arc in the entirety of Clash.
It completely flabbergasts me.

 

[Houndi101]

I hate how people act as though Theon only became a good/well written or interesting or "sympathetic" and compelling character in Dance when he probably had the best arc in the entirety of Clash.
It completely flabbergasts me.

Luckily I have never heard this, hell I'd say some of the tv-shows best content is Alfie Allen is season 2 because the material is so good..

 

[Moff]

I hate how people act as though Theon only became a good/well written or interesting or "sympathetic" and compelling character in Dance when he probably had the best arc in the entirety of Clash.
It completely flabbergasts me.

are they? I think his chapters in ADWD are only brought up that often because they are the only good ones in a very mediocre book.

 

[Bounceounce]

Luckily I have never heard this, hell I'd say some of the tv-shows best content is Alfie Allen is season 2 because the material is so good..

Alfies amazing, this is known.
Show only watchers and book fans who don't like him also don't appreciate his arc there though.

are they? I think his chapters in ADWD are only brought up that often because they are the only good ones in a very mediocre book.

Generally he's ranked at the bottom of Clash lists, and when you read impressions on his arc 99.9% of the time it's just talking about how much the person hates him or some shit about wishing it wasn't there.
And then you get to Dance and the reactions are "who woulda thought I'd like a Theon pov", "who could known George could make Theon interesting", "I don't dread his povs anymore", etc etc etc.
Like I love Theon in Dance, but I feel like his Clash story is overlooked far too much.
It seems like people aren't able to properly look at a character or enjoy them unless they're on their side, are "good" and "sympathetic", or they can root for them.
Edit: wait are you asking whether his Dance and Clash chapters really are THAT good?

 

[ZeroRay]

So according to Reddit, GRRM hasn't posted in his blog for like 15 days along with his editor not tweeting anything either....hmm...

Spoiler

I actually wanted to bring up him not posting on his blog ITT myself during the last couple of days but I didn't want to take the eventual guaranteed L

 

[RatskyWatsky]

So according to Reddit, GRRM hasn't posted in his blog for like 15 days along with his editor not tweeting anything either....hmm...

Spoiler

I actually wanted to bring up him not posting on his blog ITT myself during the last couple of days but I didn't want to take the eventual guaranteed L

what does this mean

 

[Steelyuhas]

what does this mean

nothing

Spoiler

probably

 

[RatskyWatsky]

nothing

Spoiler

probably

he's probably just busy editing Wild Cards

 

[Victarion]

So according to Reddit, GRRM hasn't posted in his blog for like 15 days along with his editor not tweeting anything either....hmm...

Spoiler

I actually wanted to bring up him not posting on his blog ITT myself during the last couple of days but I didn't want to take the eventual guaranteed L

Just posted, lol.

http://grrm.livejournal.com/497497.html

 

[Aiii]

what does this mean

He is on holiday.

 

[Black_Sun]

are they? I think his chapters in ADWD are only brought up that often because they are the only good ones in a very mediocre book.

Nah Theon's POV chapters in ADWD are probably some of GRRM's best writing in the series.

I'd actually include Quentyn's as well but that's an unpopular opinion and they suffer a lot from being disconnected to the plot for the most part.

Quentyn's arc would make for a great short story though.

Anyways there were a lot of great chapters in ADWD. All the chapters in Westeros in ADWD are good to great. It's only Essos where it can get kind of plodding.

I think ADWD would've been better if Tyrion had gone with Aegon and Jon Con to the GC as originally planned and then gone with them to Westeros. No waiting for Daenerys.

It also makes Aegon feel more essential by having Tyrion hanging around.

 

[jett]

So this Illustrated Edition...

Is that supposed to be Hodor? Do not want.

Plus the whole "pulling artworks from a dozen different sources" thing makes this seem a mess.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Great news everyone!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/498786.html

 

[Tubie]

Great news everyone!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/498786.html

Why you do this to me

 

[Aiii]

Great news everyone!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/498786.html

Procrastination goals.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Great news everyone!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/498786.html

c'mon

 

[butzopower]

Great news everyone!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/498786.html

Basically a Rick Roll.

 

[Incandenza]

Great news everyone!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/498786.html

this should be bannable

 

[Veelk]

Hm...I haven't ready anything from Martin since Rogue Prince released, which was back in 2014.

I'm currently on the fourth WoT book, and while I know GRRM was a major fan of Jordan's work, I can't for the life of me see why. This series is major shit, and only gets worse (from what I heard). But reading it has specifically made me realize I want a good medieval fantasy to wash out the taste of it.

I usually plan my rereads around when the next book will be released. Think now is a good enough time to start the reread?

 

[Lothar]

Depends. Does it take you 3 years to read through the series?

 

[Veelk]

Depends. Does it take you 3 years to read through the series?

Depends. Am I solofocusing on the series, or reading it with 5 seperate books like I am now? (in addition to the shows, movies, and comics I also consume?)

As of this point, if we also include the Novellas and the World of Ice and Fire textbook that I got, I should be able to finish a read through by January - March at the pace I go (along with the other works I'm consuming). I wish I read faster, but I just don't, and I don't want to drop anything I'm doing atm. But I burned through the series in a months time back when it was just 4 books and 2 dunk and egg stories.

I think a cautiously optimistic guess would be that book 6 is gonna be announced close to the beginning of next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was mid 2017.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

I always get a chuckle out of the pessimism in here. This wait just destroys everyone's will lol

 

[Veelk]

I still think that everyone should just read another book series. As with everything, a wait is only long if you focus on it. I agonized over the release of new books in my favorite series when I was younger, but then I started to just read other series to pass the time. I finished one series, and moved on to another, until one day, hey, Dance finally came out, and I barely even noticed that it took so long.

I'm now waiting on a ton of books besides Winds of Winter, but I honestly wouldn't even notice because there is always more to read. It's ridiculous how many good books there are out there. I don't care how fast a reader you are, there is no way you've read them all.

And if you somehow did, read them again. Seriously, people under estimate how much a reread can give you. Like, if I started rereading ASoIaF right now, and a month later Winds of Winter came out (not got announced, came out), I would have no problem putting it off another month or so to finish up my reread, because I'd get a lot out of it. Same goes for other series. It's actually become something of a problem for me because I feel I'm not exploring enough because there's so many books I want to read again.

You can't make GRRM write faster or better. We don't have any metric we can use to track his progress. We have no control over when Winds comes out. We can, however, control what we do with our time. It just always made sense to me that it's better spent consuming more fantasy, if that's what you want to do, even if it's not specific GRRM fantasy. I want to schedule my reread to coincide with a likely Winds release date, but if GRRM decided to take another year, I can find ways to keep myself busy until then.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Why you do this to me

Procrastination goals.

c'mon

Basically a Rick Roll.

this should be bannable

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Great news everyone!

http://grrm.livejournal.com/498786.html

Last year he wrote more words about the NFL than he has released from TWOW. Can't wait for him to triple that this year.

 

[Aiii]

Last year he wrote more words about the NFL than he has released from TWOW. Can't wait for him to triple that this year.

Word counts for ASOIAF books:
A Game of Thrones: 298k
A Clash of kings: 326k
A Storm of Swords: 424k
A Feast for Crows: 300k
A Dance with Dragons: 422k

So, lets say the next book will be 425k words. Considering it's been over five years, all George had to to do was write 233 words every day to finish the entire book by now.

For reference: The blog post above is 408 words.

 

[Lothar]

Right, I don't there's anyone that believes he writes every day, or even every month. He's just not that into it anymore.

 

[Veelk]

Word counts for ASOIAF books:
A Game of Thrones: 298k
A Clash of kings: 326k
A Storm of Swords: 424k
A Feast for Crows: 300k
A Dance with Dragons: 422k

So, lets say the next book will be 425k words. Considering it's been over five years, all George had to to do was write 233 words every day to finish the entire book by now.

For reference: The blog post above is 408 words.

This assumes that a writer is a glorified fax machine, transfering information that is pre-recorded from his head to paper. Chances are that if, day, Dance of Dragon is 422k words, he atleast wrote 1.2 million words for it, likely more. Part of writing is figuring out which words to use, and that's often a process of writing a bunch of words he won't use first.

 

[Aiii]

So serious.

 

[Veelk]

I'm just saying, there's no time metric to when a book is actually done. You can track number of words written, but you can't track which of those words are worth keeping. Entire subplots and characters are added and removed from as you revise over and over. Not all authors work like this, some like Brandon Sanderson have their process down to enough of a clockwork that they can track it, but other authors aren't and I don't hold that against them.

 

[shas'la]

Hey book GAF, i'm hoping one or more of you guys can help me pick out a nice hardback set of these books?

I'm thinking something similar to the recent Tolkien editions;

http://www.tolkien.co.uk/product/9780007182367/The+Lord+of+the+Rings+

Any suggestions?

 

[Mr Git]

It's probably best to wait until the series is finished before starting on a posh hardbook set - if the Earth still exists by then obviously. It's hard enough trying to have all the same editions for this series in paperback, they're constantly changing in size and design.

 

[88random]

Every time this thread gets bumped I hope we finally have the date. Fuck :/