Support NeoGAF

[dampflokfreund]

According to this leak, it's 4GB when in portable mode, 6GB when docked. This suggests that the dock has 2GB of additionnal RAM in it:

Amazing specs, I would have never thought Nintendo would make a system with up to date hardware these days.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Altho the timing is perfect for a Parker based Switch..I highly doubt Nintendo went with a custom made chip of the newest architecture that would cost tons of money.

What is more likely is that they modified the older Maxwell X1 architecture.

Nintendo has never really choose to go cutting edge with exception to the gamecube and even then they went with tiny discs...

For the record the Wii U is 45nm, Tegra K1 28nm ( 8 watt power consumption), Tegra X1 20nm (roughly 10 watt power consumption and 15 TDP), and Parker is 16nm..

The point is that it would probably cost less for nintendo to go Pascal since it's on a node that everyone is using now, instead of going for an older node that is being phased out. It's a bit like the issue of the WiiU, which costed a LOT to make despite being archaic exactly because it was so customized and non-standard. Going standard would save a lot for Nintendo, and unless they made some very strange contracts so that it cost less for them to go 20nm, i think they'll go Pascal.

It also save about 40% in power saving at similar performances, so there's that too. TDP saving are extremely important for a portable.

Amazing specs, I would have never thought Nintendo would make a system with up to date hardware these days.

Aside from the fact that it make it looks like this run TWO parkers (which is not happening as Nintendo said there's no additional hardware inside the dock, it's also generic as all hell. Parker-based is probably a given , but Parker based can be from 0.2 to 2 Gflops easily so it doesn't mean a lot.

15W isn't totally unreasonable for when the system is docked. But it's completely unreasonable for when it's portable.

Possible, but you have also to consider that if it has to switch seamlessly, the main unit can't run hot. I mean, it's not impossible given that the shieldTV never run hot with a simple fan at 15W TDP and very similar size, but when you factor in the screen that gobble a bit of that size and Nintendo being conservative... i think it will be a tad bit slower even in the best of cases.

 

[Schnozberry]

Source?

Logic and reason? That listing has a separate Nvidia Chip and game card reader in the home unit, which we know from the reveal and Nintendo's statements isn't the case.

Also, Tegra X2 was never a real product.

 

[Mr Swine]

Are we sure that NX is this beefy as a portable unit based on these leaked specs and not those leaked specs from yesterday that had somewhat weak/mediocre specs?

 

[G.ZZZ]

Are we sure that NX is this beefy as a portable unit based on these leaked specs and not those leaked specs from yesterday that had somewhat weak/mediocre specs?

The specs leaked yesterday (which was a Jetson TX1 board btw so it can't be exactly the switch since it's custom as said by Nvidia) put the console at 512 Gflop (max). Those new super powerful beefy leaked specs put it at 725 Gflop (max). I mean, it's a different, but it's not like we're talking Wii vs Ps3.

Don't get me wrong, if the Devkits are cooled TX1s (which seems extremely likely as many rumors said that), the console is probably there as well. Maybe a bit faster, maybe a tad slower, but we've got the ballpark already, and it's 500 Gflops or so. I don't think it will be slower than the Devkit anyway because it would be annoying for developers. If anything, i'm expecting they'll cut down the frequencies a bit more for mobile mode if it's really 3 hours max battery time. A bigger differential between mobile and home mode would also make the resolution switch from 720p to hypotetically 1080p more smooth too.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Logic and reason? That listing has a separate Nvidia Chip and game card reader in the home unit, which we know from the reveal and Nintendo's statements isn't the case.

Also, Tegra X2 was never a real product.

I'd like to remind you that those are the specs for the Devkits, not the final unit. As we know, the devkit comes in two flavors at the moment: Standalone portable, and Standalone merged with dock.

The two units listed in those spec sheets correspond to those two different devkit units:

 

[Schnozberry]

Possible, but you have also to consider that if it has to switch seamlessly, the main unit can't run hot. I mean, it's not impossible given that the shieldTV never run hot with a simple fan at 15W TDP and very similar size, but when you factor in the screen that gobble a bit of that size and Nintendo being conservative... i think it will be a tad bit slower even in the best of cases.

Well, Pascal runs a lot cooler and more efficiently than the Tegra X1 with Maxwell. 20nm was a disaster for Nvidia and the X1 was the only product that used it for a good reason. It leaked power like crazy and ran hot. Even with aggressive clocks a Pascal Tegra chip with 2 SMs is probably not going to draw much more than 10W, even above 1ghz. With the large vents on the top of the Switch, a decent active cooler seems a given, so I think the concern over heat maybe overblown in this case.

It it turns out this is a Maxwell chip, then you're probably right.

 

[Principate]

Are we sure that NX is this beefy as a portable unit based on these leaked specs and not those leaked specs from yesterday that had somewhat weak/mediocre specs?

The previous leaked specs came from someone sure the NS wouldn't even use Tegra so regardless you take anything they say on the matter with massive grains of salt. I do remember Emily a more reliable leaker mentioning the device would be based on newer tegra architecture that would be Pascal based so while the specs may not not be correct the architecture sounds more like for a portable device that probably doesn't want to be a complete battery hog

 

[Skittzo0413]

I'd like to remind you that those are the specs for the Devkits, not the final unit. As we know, the devkit comes in two flavors at the moment: Standalone portable, and Standalone merged with dock.

The two units listed in those spec sheets correspond to those two different devkit units:

I don't think those "leaked" specs had anything to do with the devkit photos. Also those two images in the devkit photo are the same device at different angles.

Tegra X2 is not a real name for anything that exists. That spec sheet is BS.

 

[Astral Dog]

If this a new Vita would Gaffers be praising it or not?

 

[Schnozberry]

I'd like to remind you that those are the specs for the Devkits, not the final unit. As we know, the devkit comes in two flavors at the moment: Standalone portable, and Standalone merged with dock.

The two units listed in those spec sheets correspond to those two different devkit units:

Those are renders based on rumors. Check out Laura Kate Dale's twitter @laurakbuzz where she clarifies that the picture you posted actually looks nothing like the Dev Kit. It was just someone's educated guess. She's been reliable and has good sources on the Switch. There's a threat about her info going right now.

 

[Soroc]

I'd like to remind you that those are the specs for the Devkits, not the final unit. As we know, the devkit comes in two flavors at the moment: Standalone portable, and Standalone merged with dock.

The two units listed in those spec sheets correspond to those two different devkit units:

I'm sorry, when did we learn this? Do you have a source for that? First I heard confirmation of different dev kits.

 

[KingSnake]

Are we sure that NX is this beefy as a portable unit based on these leaked specs and not those leaked specs from yesterday that had somewhat weak/mediocre specs?

The specs leaked yesterday (which was a Jetson TX1 board btw so it can't be exactly the switch since it's custom as said by Nvidia) put the console at 512 Gflop (max). Those new super powerful beefy leaked specs put it at 725 Gflop (max). I mean, it's a different, but it's not like we're talking Wii vs Ps3.

Don't get me wrong, if the Devkits are cooled TX1s (which seems extremely likely as many rumors said that), the console is probably there as well. Maybe a bit faster, maybe a tad slower, but we've got the ballpark already, and it's 500 Gflops or so. I don't think it will be slower than the Devkit anyway because it would be annoying for developers. If anything, i'm expecting they'll cut down the frequencies a bit more for mobile mode if it's really 3 hours max battery time. A bigger differential between mobile and home mode would also make the resolution switch from 720p to hypotetically 1080p more smooth too.

In the end Switch won't be either of those, as it's powered by a custom Tegra processor.

 

[Lonely1]

If this a new Vita would Gaffers be praising it or not?

I would.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Those are renders based on rumors. Check out Laura Kate Dale's twitter @laurakbuzz where she clarifies that the picture you posted actually looks nothing like the Dev Kit. It was just someone's educated guess. She's been reliable and has good sources on the Switch. There's a threat about her info going right now.

What if the devkit she knows about or saw is an older dev kit, and that this isn't a newer devkit model that she hasn't seen? Devkits go through many updates before the final release.

I'd like to remind you that this picture appeared on 4chan a full day before the Switch reveal video. How do you explain that someone, prior to seeing the Switch reveal video, based only on rumors, was able to come up with a "fake" mockup that is accurate down to minute details such as the shape/position of vents, game card slot, volume buttons, notches, etc. ? Go ahead. Explain me that. I want your detailed theory. All of it.

Educated guess my ass.

 

[Skittzo0413]

Those are renders based on rumors. Check out Laura Kate Dale's twitter @laurakbuzz where she clarifies that the picture you posted actually looks nothing like the Dev Kit. It was just someone's educated guess. She's been reliable and has good sources on the Switch. There's a threat about her info going right now.

Actually it's been speculated that those are pictures of debug units, and the devkits her sources have seen look completely different.

I really can't see how that picture is faked or shopped- it looks remarkably like the device in the video, even down to the small tabs on the bottom of the bezel where the speakers supposedly are. The fan vent, cartridge slot and volume/power buttons on the top are exactly the same too.

There's no way this was faked.

Edit:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'X2' is from an Nvidia slide deck, isn't it?

Along those lines, 'X2 based' only implies that something called an X2 exists at the design level (no manufactured version implied).

They might be fabricated (crossreferencing the alleged dimensions was the first thing that came to mind...), but I don't think the name itself is a red flag.

I suppose you're right that it could be an internal name, but "Tegra X2" is also what has been thrown around in BS rumors on Reddit and elsewhere for the past few months, so it's become a red flag to me anyway.

 

[Elfforkusu]

I don't think those "leaked" specs had anything to do with the devkit photos. Also those two images in the devkit photo are the same device at different angles.

Tegra X2 is not a real name for anything that exists. That spec sheet is BS.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'X2' is from an Nvidia slide deck, isn't it?

Along those lines, 'X2 based' only implies that something called an X2 exists at the design level (no manufactured version implied).

They might be fabricated (crossreferencing the alleged dimensions was the first thing that came to mind...), but I don't think the name itself is a red flag.

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

Can someone clarify that people posting about the Switch being maybe around the One is based on facts or the leaked specs?

 

[Astral Dog]

Amazing specs, I would have never thought Nintendo would make a system with up to date hardware these days.

Im very suspect of the RAM being built on the Dock, Nintendo themselves said it was only basic hardware for playing on the TV.

 

[AtomicShroom]

Im very suspect of the RAM being built on the Dock, Nintendo themselves said it was only basic hardware for playing on the TV.

Would it be far-fetch to consider that 2GB of ram fits the description of "basic hardware for playing on the TV"? You need some RAM to upscale those graphics to 1080p.

 

[KingSnake]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'X2' is from an Nvidia slide deck, isn't it?

I don't think so. The first appearance of this was when they announced Nvidia Drive PX2 (maybe this is where the confusion comes).

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-pascal-gpu-drive-px-2/

And then when it was mentioned again by Nvidia it was called already Parker.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Can someone clarify that people posting about the Switch being maybe around the One is based on facts or the leaked specs?

I remember initially it was sources claiming that at, the then unknown, screen resolution coupled with the benefit of modern chips, it would approach xbone visuals, but never in actual numbers game except for the CPU.

 

[Astral Dog]

Would it be far-fetch to consider that 2GB of ram fits the description of "basic hardware for playing on the TV"? You need some RAM to upscale those graphics to 1080p.

im no expert but that to me seems complicated, normally you would need RAM to make the games prettier, or to help getting ports of Xbox One a bit easier, this amount of memory only for displaying at more triple the resolution is unprecedented

specially with Nintendo implying everything is on the main unit

 

[Schnozberry]

What if the devkit she knows about or saw is an older dev kit, and that this isn't a newer devkit model that she hasn't seen? Devkits go through many updates before the final release.

I'd like to remind you that this picture appeared on 4chan a full day before the Switch reveal video. How do you explain that someone, prior to seeing the Switch reveal video, based only on rumors, was able to come up with a "fake" mockup that is accurate down to minute details such as the shape/position of vents, game card slot, volume buttons, notches, etc. ? Go ahead. Explain me that. I want your detailed theory. All of it.

Educated guess my ass.

Here's her article from Today:

http://letsplayvideogames.com/2016/10/a-deep-dive-on-lpvgs-nintendo-switch-reports-and-info/

Two separate developers (Ubi and an Indie Dev) claim that their kits don't match up. So either someone mocked it up based on the description of devkit, or it's an entirely different unit compared to the one currently in the hands of developers. As Skittz said, it could be a debug unit.

 

[G.ZZZ]

I don't think those "leaked" specs had anything to do with the devkit photos. Also those two images in the devkit photo are the same device at different angles.

Tegra X2 is not a real name for anything that exists. That spec sheet is BS.

It's not the same device at two different angles. Look at the top of the screen, there's somethign circled for a reason. One seems to have the power on top, the other is powered by the dock under it.

 

[th3sicknness]

According to this leak, it's 4GB when in portable mode, 6GB when docked. This suggests that the dock has 2GB of additionnal RAM in it:

It wont work like that and if it did it wouldn't be because the dock has more ram in it.. it would be because the handheld has all the memory and wont have access to it when it is in portable mode so save on power.


I highly doubt they would split the memory pool between the dock and the handheld because it would be a nightmare for them to tell developers to think about 2 different memory pools.. and it just doesnt make sense from a design perspective.

At best that dock just has an upscaler in it to assist in the smooth transition from handheld to TV output.

 

[darkness_s]

Those are renders based on rumors. Check out Laura Kate Dale's twitter @laurakbuzz where she clarifies that the picture you posted actually looks nothing like the Dev Kit. It was just someone's educated guess. She's been reliable and has good sources on the Switch. There's a threat about her info going right now.

The game card slot, headphone jack, vent, power and volume buttons are all in the exact same place as the real thing, I doubt it's just someones educated guess.

 

[Skittzo0413]

It's not the same device at two different angles. Look at the top of the screen, there's somethign circled for a reason. One seems to have the power on top, the other is powered by the dock under it.

It's circled red to show you where that spot is in the device between both images.

Look at the coax ports in the top of the left image and the right side of the right image. It's very clearly the same device at different angles.

There is no dock involved in this picture. The coax cables being on both show you that this devkit/debug device is bulky due to the need for development connectors, like coax cables.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Would it be far-fetch to consider that 2GB of ram fits the description of "basic hardware for playing on the TV"? You need some RAM to upscale those graphics to 1080p.

I find it questionable given the quality that connections would need to have for external RAM tbh. Seems unplausible. It's more likely there's actually more RAM on the mobile part that it's deactivated simply because it's not needed when the console run on mobile mode on lower resolution.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

If there is any truth to that spec sheet, it's probably two different versions of NX.

One that's the hybrid/home model, and a 6gig home only version.

Remember NX is a platform - like the iPhone - and the Switch may be only one version of it.

 

[nynt9]

im no expert but that to me seems complicated, normally you would need RAM to make the games prettier, or to help getting ports of Xbox One a bit easier, this amount of memory only for displaying at more triple the resolution is unprecedented

specially with Nintendo implying everything is on the main unit

It's also sounding far fetched because RAM isn't used just for improving graphics. How many NPCs on screen there are is determined by RAM for example. Does this mean the game just changes completely in terms of it memory architecture depending on whether it's plugged in? Sounds like a lot of work for developers to be able to change RAM sizes on the fly and doesn't seem likely.

 

[trixx]

I really hope this device succeeds because it seems nvidia actually tried really hard for Nintendo in helping create this device

 

[Durante]

Well, Tegra Pascal is (reportedly) more power efficient than the TX1, so is reasonable to conclude that, for the same power envelope, a Parker-based NS can be more powerful than a TX1 one. At least, that is how I believe is the case.

That's the crucial part. Maxwell-based TX1 only runs at 512 GFlops (the rumoured dev kit rate) in a stationary device for a reason.

If you want to build a handheld gaming system you probably don't want that same power envelope.

 

[guek]

I really hope this device succeeds because it seems nvidia actually tried really hard for Nintendo in helping create this device

Those mofos are goddamn thirsty for console market share that's for sure

 

[gtj1092]

I would.

You're better than most. It is funny how large screens, dual sticks, single screens and console games on the go are now the basket of innovation and fun.

 

[G.ZZZ]

It's circled red to show you where that spot is in the device between both images.

Look at the coax ports in the top of the left image and the right side of the right image. It's very clearly the same device at different angles.

There is no dock involved in this picture. The coax cables being on both show you that this devkit/debug device is bulky due to the need for development connectors, like coax cables.

Oh you're right i'm dumb.

 

[martino]

If there is any truth to that spec sheet, it's probably two different versions of NX.

One that's the hybrid/home model, and a 6gig home only version.

Remember NX is a platform - like the iPhone - and the Switch may be only one version of it.

Hope you're rigtht

 

[Ryoku]

Altho the timing is perfect for a Parker based Switch..I highly doubt Nintendo went with a custom made chip of the newest architecture that would cost tons of money.

What is more likely is that they modified the older Maxwell X1 architecture.

Nintendo has never really choose to go cutting edge with exception to the gamecube and even then they went with tiny discs...

For the record the Wii U is 45nm, Tegra K1 28nm ( 8 watt power consumption), Tegra X1 20nm (roughly 10 watt power consumption and 15 TDP), and Parker is 16nm..

28nm will get too hot in that form factor, and 20nm is dead.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Hope you're rigtht

I would guess that a home only version would be a bit out.

Drop the screen and battery, make the thing a single unit, and replace the joycons with a pro controller and you have money left over for more ram at the same price - probably lower. Probably easier to clock higher too.

 

[KingSnake]

That's the crucial part. Maxwell-based TX1 only runs at 512 GFlops (the rumoured dev kit rate) in a stationary device for a reason.

If you want to build a handheld gaming system you probably don't want that same power envelope.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we have Pixel C having a Tegra X1 with a maximum clock of 850Mhz. That's 435Gflops in a tablet powered by Tegra X1.

Nvidia claims that Parker can be 40% more powerful than X1 for the same power envelope. So instead of 512Gflops, Parker maxes out at 750Gflops (that's actually an increase of a bit over 46% in power).

So applying the same logic for the Pixel C config, a downclocked Parker with max 609Gflops should be pretty safe for a tablet.

I'm not touching on the possibility of active cooling or running at a higher clocked when docked.

So ignoring active cooling, dock, Nintendo playing too safe, am I wrong in assuming that a tablet powered by a Pascal based Tegra should normally deliver more than 600Gflops?

 

[LordOfChaos]

For those too lazy to do the maths, that chart give us 750 Gflops of performance that were touted for the new Parker chip, so i guess that's actually the new Parker chip. If that's used for the Switch that's a beast, but i don't think it will be, or if it will, it will be underclocked a bit compared to the standard chipset (15W of TDP in a tablet form factor is a bit much).

How did you do the math?

ALUs * 2 floating point operations per cycle * 1 billion cycles per second is the calculation for Gflops, it's not really any more meaningful than that and it's not a final performance number, I assume you went based on scaling to the Shield TVs performance?

Probably a close enough calc for our purposes, I just like talking

 

[Übermatik]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 'X2' is from an Nvidia slide deck, isn't it?

Along those lines, 'X2 based' only implies that something called an X2 exists at the design level (no manufactured version implied).

They might be fabricated (crossreferencing the alleged dimensions was the first thing that came to mind...), but I don't think the name itself is a red flag.

Correct: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=212497059&postcount=11657

There's reasoning. Nvidia's Alex Ramirez presented a series of slides on next generation architecture, featuring the name 'X2':

Page 11: http://emit.tech/EMiT2016/Ramirez-EM...-Barcelona.pdf

 

[Silent Chief]

Its pretty easy to port from x86 to ARM isn't it?

Well, if the compiler does everything for you, it's the same as porting to anything.
Programming directly on the metal, X86 to ARM is pretty much the hardest that I can thing of, right there with porting to MIPS.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Well, if the compiler does everything for you, it's the same as porting to anything.
Programming directly on the metal, X86 to ARM is pretty much the hardest that I can thing of, right there with porting to MIPS.

But even "to the metal" APIs aren't really to the metal. DX12 seems reasonably portable, though it seems GNM is a bit lower and a bit harder to port.

 

[rambis]

Amazing specs, I would have never thought Nintendo would make a system with up to date hardware these days.

I think its an impressive design but I wouldnt say those specs are amazing or up to date. I say with this they will probably hit a sweet spot pricing wise though.

I'd love some info on the GPU though.

 

[Peterthumpa]

Those are renders based on rumors. Check out Laura Kate Dale's twitter @laurakbuzz where she clarifies that the picture you posted actually looks nothing like the Dev Kit. It was just someone's educated guess. She's been reliable and has good sources on the Switch. There's a threat about her info going right now.

Educated guess? The person who did this even got the cart slot and speaker placement right?

Not sure about that.

 

[Toni]

So what would we be looking at (power-wise) for the Switch?

PS4 level, in between Xbox One & PS4, or below Xbox One?

 

[Equanimity]

So what would we be looking at (power-wise) for the Switch?

PS4 level, in between Xbox One & PS4, or below Xbox One?

Below Xbox One from everything I have read on the net so far.

 

[mugurumakensei]

So what would we be looking at (power-wise) for the Switch?

PS4 level, in between Xbox One & PS4, or below Xbox One?

Better CPU if it's clocked anywhere near the PS4/XBox One.

GPU is 50%-75% of XBox One depending on how much can be done with 16 bit floats.

 

[Fourth Storm]

According to this leak, it's 4GB when in portable mode, 6GB when docked. This suggests that the dock has 2GB of additionnal RAM in it:

What gives this image any sort of credibility whatsoever? At least the guy over on the anandtech forums has people vouching for him. We should be discussing that if anything...