Portugeezer
Member
What if Nintendo don't want people to think this is like Wii U again. They could be downplaying the the docks use, the tablet does everything in the eyes of consumer.
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Nintendo Switch: Powered by Custom Nvidia Tegra Chip (Official)
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
What if Nintendo don't want people to think this is like Wii U again. They could be downplaying the the docks use, the tablet does everything in the eyes of consumer.
We did, but his info is a bog-standard Jetson board, which is also obviously not the final unit as nVidia themselves have at the very least confirmed custom and can further be read as speaking of Pascal/Parker (+Nate's old leak).
So... /shrug
Fourth Storm
Member
Interesting. I need to catch up on the tech conversation over the weekend. Do we have any estimates on the supposed low bandwidth? It's got to be at least 30 GB/s I'd think to make Wii U ports easy. I'd think 128-bit lpDDR4 at ~50 GB/s to be a somewhat realistic guess.
Fourth Storm
Member
How could that be a lucky guess? The top of the unit looks like an exact match to what was shown in the trailer!
Edit: Double post!? Really!? Damn, Storm...
Schnozberry
Member
Laura's sources said it didn't look like any dev kit they had seen, and it may have been a render based on someone describing a dev kit. I agree it looks a lot like the switch though, so perhaps it was just a newer or older kit than what her sources had.
Proelite
Member
According to this leak, it's 4GB when in portable mode, 6GB when docked. This suggests that the dock has 2GB of additionnal RAM in it:
Or it could be that 6GB of lpddr4 are on the main unit, but 2GB are turned off for battery improvement.
Promotional unit looks to be a mini TV sized demo unit.
Wii U is 175Gflops, don't undersell it.
Yeah, from an AMD graphics architecture released in 2008, those flops are far below pascal flops, the person you were replying to is right, and the benchmark image shown above would put it at 750gflops, which is over 1tflops equivalent of GCN used in XB1, so this does seem to be like Emily Rogers put out before, a stretch to XB1, but it does seem to be in the same performance area.
I posted this in the other Switch thread but it got quickly buried among battery life argument posts. And it seems more appropriate to post it here in a tech focused thread.
This might not mean anything, but its something that caught my eye:
One thing I caught in the preview trailer is during the car ride multiplayer part, is when they slide the Switch into the car seat holder arm thing, there is holes in the back and I believe at the top which you can just barely make out; match the holes and the vents of the Switch?
Would this mean that it could be actively cooled in portable mode too? Same performance and power in docked and non docked modes?
This part is what I mean:
This might not mean anything, but its something that caught my eye:
One thing I caught in the preview trailer is during the car ride multiplayer part, is when they slide the Switch into the car seat holder arm thing, there is holes in the back and I believe at the top which you can just barely make out; match the holes and the vents of the Switch?
Would this mean that it could be actively cooled in portable mode too? Same performance and power in docked and non docked modes?
This part is what I mean:
Click to enlarge
James Scott
Banned
I'm excited to see what Nintendo can squeeze out of this portable. Being Wii U+ sounds pretty great especially since an NVIDIA made chip would mean more modern toolsets (UE4 support is confirmed).
When Nintendo tried they squeezed a lot out of the systems, with (hopefully) a large install base to justify spending that much and an entire generation worth of HD experience (management+engines+assets) I hope we can see Nintendo push HD gaming more.
They could so stuff like this on Wii U:
When Nintendo tried they squeezed a lot out of the systems, with (hopefully) a large install base to justify spending that much and an entire generation worth of HD experience (management+engines+assets) I hope we can see Nintendo push HD gaming more.
They could so stuff like this on Wii U:
I'd love to see what they can do with that extra bit of power. The biggest issues were the low resolution, but even then on a portable @ 720p it'll look great
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
Good Catch. If the top is the vents then those are the speakers. You look at the back of the NX it looks like that is where the speakers are.
Fourth Storm
Member
The speakers appear to be on the front bottom by my reckoning. Those two indents on either side of the bezel.
From what we're hearing about battery life, I think there is a good chance that Switch is actively cooled in portable mode. Not too crazy--I essentially put this in the same category as a laptop computer.
I still don't know what to think about a performance increase in dock mode. Laura K Buzz says so and has been on the money with her reporting, but it's possibly her sources just mean the supposed upscaling hardware in the dock.
From what we're hearing about battery life, I think there is a good chance that Switch is actively cooled in portable mode. Not too crazy--I essentially put this in the same category as a laptop computer.
I still don't know what to think about a performance increase in dock mode. Laura K Buzz says so and has been on the money with her reporting, but it's possibly her sources just mean the supposed upscaling hardware in the dock.
unless there is a second dock. Nintendo did say they have a few surprises left for the Switch to show off. I can see them having the basic dock, and a "Pro Dock".
James Scott
Banned
The portable NVIDIA shield was also actively cooled. Had a fan and vents too. I think it's good if they could overclock it seeings as it has a fan and vents while being built around being plugged into the TV. It would give devs a bit more performance to work with, especially if they want to push higher resolutions on the TV.
Fourth Storm
Member
Maybe in the future, but at launch I think they'll want to keep it simple. I think the surprises will be things like the supposed enhanced rumble, motion controls, share features, and maybe some other things we haven't heard about. But I believe that we'll only get a single dock at launch.
I do wonder if the top of the screen that is exposed when docked will display some basic info almost like a Galaxy Edge series type thing.
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
I think the system uses less ram unlocked.
Schnozberry
Member
What could be displayed that's useful when you're sitting at couch distance? I'm genuinely curious what you have in mind..
Skittzo0413
Member
You could have just a single color on the screen to act like an ambient light which could change depending on the in game situation.
Doesn't sound worth powering the screen though.
A Default X1 has 25GB/s Bandwidth. While parker has 50GB/s. Both of these of course exclude any potential ESRAM etc. Nintendo has been adding additional pools for enhanced capability for awhile now so I would think that trend would continue
tiredheadcrab
Member
OMG how did I miss that one?!?!?!?! I owned that Tablet as well!!! Holy shit.
It was an okay tablet so thats probably why.
FutureProtagonist
Neo Member
The PS4 probably isn't even 7.5x faster, comparing GPUs only. More like ~6.4x.
Type_Raver
Member
Home unit = 6GB ram
Portable = 4GB ram
Total 10GB!?
Portable = 4GB ram
Total 10GB!?
FutureProtagonist
Neo Member
The posts from zlatan have always been fairly credible. He is know to be an actual developer, even if his grammar and spelling is poor. He seems to know a lot about common uarchs (Intel vs AMD CPUs, for example) and about graphics programming for modern consoles (DX12 and the like). He also knew about the second beta of Ashes of the Singularity before it came out.
He was, however, wrong about the PS4 pro, claiming it would not use Polaris.
Still, I think what he's saying is quite credible, though I would have expected the "Tegra X2" to be much faster than he's describing. The Tegra X1 GPU seems to be about 1/3 of a 750 Ti, (factoring in CUDA cores and clock speeds) then the Tegra X2 should probably be about 50% faster or 1/2 750 Ti (50-70% of Xbox One), but he could very well be correct about the bandwidth limitations.
Nostremitus
Member
A slow, shitty, CPU being released for PC that can't satisfactorily run an operating system is a mess...
I'm not sure what metrics you are looking for that would describe jaguar cores any other way.
Niether the PS4 nor Xbox One have discrete GPUs either... They both have APUs with integrated GPU cores on-die alongside the CPU cores.
Graphics Horse
Member
Nicely spotted
Oh really? I did not know the PS4 was running on a SOC...
It really all comes down to the Modifications Nintendo does. XBO only gets 68gb/s from its main Ram. Its the 32mb of ESRAM that gives the system its bandwidth boost. Parker gets 50 GB/s so its lacking a bit in direct ram comparison. We need to know if Nintendo will have an ESRAM pool or similar or not before we can say how big a bandwidth issue they would have could be.
I think he may have info on the system, but his numbers seem to be coming from direct linear extrapolation on known memory bandwidth numbers. Kind of like, someone tells you "the Y is using Z" and you look up the most documented version of Z and extrapolate linearly from there.
Nostremitus
Member
Yep, it's powered by a single AMD APU with 8 jaguar cores (essentially 2 underclocked 5350 quad cores) and 20 GCN compute units on the same chip. It's a single processor.
Edit: correction, 20 GCN units...
IbizaPocholo
NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
It's not a home console for nintendo. Is not the successor of the wii u.
dano1
A Sheep
Well what is it then..
It's not the successor to the Wii U, but according to Nintendo it's a home console.
Nintendo is gonna CD-i the shit out of the Wii U
Just because Nintendo's saying that doesn't mean that it's not totally the successor of the Wii U.
Nostremitus
Member
The same way the DS wasn't the Gameboy successor?
FutureProtagonist
Neo Member
Hmm, if that's what we're seeing I don't see bandwidth being much of an issue. Pascal has very robust delta color compression algorithms for improving effective bandwidth (up to 2.77x in the Beyond3D suite), and honestly, even without the ESRAM, I don't think the Xbox One is all that bandwidth starved. The R7 260 GDDR5 (same core as Xbox One) has 96 GB/s, 40% more, but it also has a higher core clock speed, so its bandwidth demands are higher.
It should at least have more than enough effective bandwidth for its level of performance, if it does have 50GB/s of bandwidth.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Nvidi...sts/GTX-1070-Benchmarks-Test-Preis-1196360/2/
In this test, a "black texture" is ideally compressible and a "random texture" is incompressible.
That's assuming that Nintendo want to spend as much on the SoC and on batteries as Google does on the Pixel C, which retails for over 500.
I find that incredibly unlikely. Not to mention that the Pixel C also has far more space for batteries -- these larger tablets are basically all battery.
Passive cooling???
peanutbutterlatte
Member
The fact it's doing what the Wii U attempted to do but 100 times better doesnt leave you with much alternative.
Pixel C isn't bigger than Switch, Pixel C is a 7mm thick device, Switch is over twice that. There is similar size available for battery space.
Pixel C is a 8 watt device while running the Manhattan benchmark, and passively cooled with a much larger screen which consumes part of that battery life. Still maxwell and giving you 435 Maxwell GFLOPs.
Vita has a 2150mah battery, uses about 7watts and lasts between 3 and 5 hours.
N3DS XL is a 1750mah battery, uses ~4 watts and lasts ~5 hours.
Switch is actively cooled, 15mm+ thickness, Pascal architecture (40% performance increase over maxwell) and has a maximum battery life of 3 hours. oh and has 2 extra batteries in the joycons just for fun (it's actually so they don't have to pack a second controller)
So, ~600gflops on the go sounds right to me, docked it is now being rumored by laura (one of the people who was confirmed thursday with emily about all these rumors) that it overclocks when docked, well Pascal is pretty comfortable at 1.5ghz with active cooling, you are looking at 750gflops and that lends itself to a very early emily rumor.
Emily Rogers said:
750 Pascal Gflops would perform ~1.1tflop of GCN. XB1 of course uses GCN and XB1s has 1.4tflops of compute performance. In the neighborhood of XB1s but noticeably lower performance here, launch XB1 had 1228gflops iirc, which might give some people a pretty good idea of what this device should be capable of.
Nope, pricing is pretty simple. Shield TV came out May 2015 @ $199, adding a battery and screen isn't going to put the device over $300 two years later. Remember Shield TV is much lower production too, and Shield TV was obviously sold at a decent profit.
In the end, there is no reason I've heard so far on why this device can't have ~50% of a GTX 750ti when docked. How else do you even come to active cooling and over twice as thick of the passively cooled pixel c device with Pascal in Switch? or the 3 hour MAX battery life?
Twitter didn't exist when the Wii was revealed.
The concept was clear as day with the Wii and the Nintendo Switch
Motion controls are a given on phones, tablets, (heck even thinkpads were using a form a gyroscopes to stop your hard drive if you drop you laptop) and VR set ups.
The Nintendo Switch is based on the most powerful GPU architecture on the planet earth and yet that still isn't enough
Bad hardware? Do we need to discuss Xbox 360 & PS3 Phat failure rate?
Considering the Wii was sold out for years and have an attach rate over 8, I guess people "briefly" enjoyed that "gimmick"
I loled.
You were just bragging about the two separate wireless controllers with their own batteries a moment ago. Also, I don't think the margin on the Shield TV is very high, it's mostly a promotional product for NV.
Well, for one a 750ti has 86 GB/s of memory bandwidth. They'd need to double the bus width to get to half of that.
In compute, half of a 750ti isn't too far off TX1 anyway, which is still the ballpark I expect.
Reminds me back when Wii was revealed and people were in denial regarding the reports being pretty much a gamecube in raw power.
It's the Wii-U all over again. You will take any kind of rumor and speculation and round upwards and upwards. The next rumor will only extrapolate from there until some of you have your perceptions and expectations all fucked up based on very shaky sources and wishful thinking.
Christ. There's sense in being conservative here because these theoreticals never pan out. Best to get to grips with that sooner rather than later.
Yup, and the Wii-U speculation threads were the exact same. People over-inflate their own expectations so much that they completely miss the forest for the trees.
Think about what Nintendo would want for this thing, not what YOU would personally want. People always confuse the two.
Christ. There's sense in being conservative here because these theoreticals never pan out. Best to get to grips with that sooner rather than later.
Yup, and the Wii-U speculation threads were the exact same. People over-inflate their own expectations so much that they completely miss the forest for the trees.
Think about what Nintendo would want for this thing, not what YOU would personally want. People always confuse the two.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
According to this leak, it's 4GB when in portable mode, 6GB when docked. This suggests that the dock has 2GB of additionnal RAM in it:
Not even a HD camera. Nintendo you cheap bastards.
UnemployedVillain
Member
So basically other people making assumptions is crazy, but you making assumptions (because "Think about what Nintendo would do" is absolutely meaningless, unless you started gaming with the Wii) is perfectly fine?
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