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[The Dude]

Just curious... I always think about how the series is perceived as such a brutally hard experience, when it's truly not and is seriously one of the most unique and rewarding games to date. But its frustrating because so many folks I'm sure pass because of this misconception even if they experienced it and felt it was hard. The thing is, once you adapt its fair as can be and I mean I just wish everyone could see what gems these games are. They have some of the most incredible and rewarding moments, I just want every gamer to experience it and see how good they really can be.

Just a thought, but I would love to help some who can't get into it find a way to finally break the barrier, the series is just that good

 

[Mifec]

I laugh every time someone thinks the games being hard is the point/game is designed around it.

 

[The Dude]

I laugh every time someone thinks the games being hard is the point/game is designed around it.

Yea, I think people feel it's a game to just put your balls in a vice and crush them and it's not. It's not about being difficult to be difficult

 

[Kyou]

I get a little sad when "You need to learn how to play it and get better to proceed" is met with "OMG HARDEST GAME EVAR"

 

[Soulflarz]

Yes because you can't say souls isn't hard without someone getting severely tilted about them having issues with it.

If you go in with the right mindset or play patiently, the series isn't really that hard at all. It teaches you how to play with this mindset, learn it and the entire series is easier than most action games are.

 

[Oxirane]

Just summon for everything. It's built into the game.

 

[Brashnir]

Not a huge fan of the series, to be honest, but yes, the perceived difficulty does bother me nonetheless.

 

[Karsticles]

Souls games are basically what every single game was like before "experiences" took over.

 

[eXistor]

Not at all, they are very hard games that require some serious attention from the player. Most people just don't play games to, seemingly, be punished, they just want to have casual fun (nothing wrong with that btw). I've tried to sell the games in my store so many times (to people that want something new, the games sell themselves to fans of course) and more often than not, they come back and say "couldn't get past the first boss so I quit". I totally understand where they're coming from too and I don't bame them one bit. I love the games myself, but no matter how many copies they sell, it's still a niche series that was just in the right place at the right time.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Some of the bosses are incredibly hard. I like the souls/borne games, but I quit playing Bloodborne at the second to last boss and I quit playing Dark Souls 3 at the Princes boss.

 

[Mediking]

The beginning of Dark Souls 2: Scholar is tough though. Its "tutorial" is hard unless you grind and seriously watch everything. At least I learned to poke and watch.

 

[enkaisu]

The games are challenging and can be hard, but I don't like how people focus on that aspect of the games so much. There's a lot more to the Souls games than just difficulty.

 

[Ri'Orius]

It's fair, but it's still quite hard. Not to mention that the Souls formula includes a lot of less forgiving elements. The possibility of losing something on death, the fact that the story is hidden away in item descriptions rather than spoonfed, etc. The lack of a pause feature, ffs.

They're great games, but make no mistake: their reputation is by no means baseless.

 

[The Dude]

But even at that they have an aid with being able to summon, so even if a boss is kicking someone's ass they can summon someone and that helps greatly if that is what's needed

 

[The Dude]

The games are challenging and can be hard, but I don't like how people focus on that aspect of the games so much. There's a lot more to the Souls games than just difficulty.

Absolutely, the lore, atmosphere, loot hunts etc... Are top notch

 

[YianGaruga]

But the games ARE difficult and challenging. Otherwise they wouldn't be as rewarding. They're more difficult than 90% of AAA releases on the market. They don't hold your hand and they can be extremely punishing.

There are a ton of mechanics (especially summons) and playstyles that make them very managable, but to deny that the games are designed with difficulty challenge in mind is pretty weird. It's not a misconception. The games don't explain shit. If you're not the type of person who explores and investigates systems yourself, you won't get anywhere.

"Difficulty" in games isn't really clearly defined. What makes a game "difficult"? Some people would only call a game difficult when theys're stuck at a level/boss for days. For others, having to restart and run back to the boss three times is already too much.

Relatively speaking, Souls games are very difficult games in the AAA space. At this point I don't think the games are defined by it anymore though. In conversations about souls games world building and level design is talked about just as much as challenge.

 

[Soulflarz]

But the games ARE difficult and challenging. Otherwise they wouldn't be as rewarding. They're more difficult than 90% of AAA releases on the market.

There are a ton of mechanics (especially summons) and playstyles that make them very managable, but to deny that the games are designed with difficulty challenge in mind is pretty weird. It's not a misconception.

I think when you look at AAA for difficulty you're doing something wrong, since...well
Shooters on their hardest difficulties give less room for error than souls, and on normal, they're supposed to be braindead easy by design.

Relatively speaking, yes, they're hard, but I think if you play it enough they're still rather mindless.

 

[kagamin]

Yes, but I doubt most people have had the frustratingly difficult experience of playing games like Tales of Maj'Eyal or Etrian Odyssey (but much less so than the former).

 

[smashballTaz]

It is a shame that they have a reputation of being brutally hard, when that's not true at all. Once you learn the rhythm of the game and the mechanics of poise and shielding and stamina conservation it's so much fun wrecking enemies in the game. There's a bit of a difficulty curve in the first few hours but it's so rewarding mastering the mechanics and learning how to deal with new situations with little hand-holding, that the Souls series is one or my favourite modern franchises.

With that said: sometimes you just gotta Git Gud.

 

[Pantaghana]

I do get a bit annoyed when people talk about difficulty like it's all there is to DS, found it even a bit overblown, because it's not that hard.
The game only asks two things from you:
- figure out what to do
- actually do it

The biggest difference between DS and other titles on the market is that the right thing to do is not immediately obvious and mistakes (in the "actually do it" part) are punished hard rather than treated like a bump in the road, being impatient and greedy is a mistake 99% of the time.

 

[YianGaruga]

I think when you look at AAA for difficulty you're doing something wrong, since...well

Why? That's the space the games are in. Sure you can compare them to Boshy or competitive fighting games or whatever, but what's the point? For most people, AAA are the only games that exist.

If you want to talk about the perception of Souls games you need to look beyond the hardcore bubble we're in. I don't find Souls games difficult at all, but it's very clear why they have that reputation. I know people who have played games for years and would never be able to finish a souls game.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Dark Souls 3 was pretty easy for me (never finished it though). I died way more frequently in Ratchet & Clank.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

Dark Souls 3 was pretty easy for me (never finished it though). I died way more frequently in Ratchet & Clank.

How far did you get? I felt the last 3 bosses were the hardest in the game.

 

[Mediking]

I also have no idea whats the story behind Dark Souls 2: Scholar. Like I really have no idea. Nothing is really explained. I just assume everybody is evil and that I'm cursed to keep fighting until I win.

 

[AlexBasch]

"This is the Dark Souls of..."

NO, IT'S THE FUCKING DARK SOULS OF ANYTHING, STOP TRYING TO SHOVE THE DAMN THING INTO GODDAMN EVERYTHING.

There, I feel better.

 

[kagamin]

How far did you get? I felt the last 3 bosses were the hardest in the game.

It's weird, I didn't have much trouble with the

Spoiler

Princes

, but my first run (coincidentally at SL50) I had a lot of trouble with the final boss for some reason, eventually I figured it out but I guess Nashandra made me complacent. lol

 

[sublimit]

The games are definitely not as hard as some people make them out to be (at least for 80% of their content) but on the other hand they are also not as easy as the majority of modern AAA games are so it would be wise for people to not expect them to be cakewalks either.

It's just that Bamco's marketing has been built around the games challenge (whatever level that is) so i have accepted that the majority of people who haven't played them will continue to believe that the games are ultra hardcore.And the only reason it bothers me is that some people will be turned off from that marketing before they even give the games a chance and they will miss out on some of the best games ever made.

 

[2San]

The game is hard if you go in blind. Sure you might not need great reaction speed, but there is a lot of trial error involved. Not knowing where to go causes deaths as well and might increase the challenge depending on where you go. You also need to learn the importance of upgrading. The game started to get manageable for me when I finally understood the importance of upgrading and finding a style that works for me, but before that it was whole lot of dying and it is difficult.

I found Ninja Gaiden II (x360) an easier game since it was basically just git gud to progress (with some trial & error). While without knowing the systems of the souls games you just do shitty damage and if you do shitty damage the encounters are damn brutal.

 

[Killroyskbg]

I love the souls games but the games are hard end of story. There is no slider to make the game similar to other games difficulty. Many of us love the challange and have learned to master these games but for many just looking for a fun time dying over and over at the start of the game without any means to change that is not the idea of a fun time simple as that.

I am from Sweden and there is a Swedish dish called surströmming that is basically fermented fish that many claim to be one of the best things in the world to eat. However opening the cans creates an odor that very few people can even stand.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_haw_YDC_zo. Even though so many claim that it is so good and you just got to get used to it then you will love it I will never touch that shit.

First impressions is a bitch.

 

[Horse Detective]

I hate my fellow fans more than the games.

The community makes me feel like I cant take advantage of easy boss tactics or exploits in a game that is happy to exploit me when im stuck at an obstacle or something. I personally place the "git gud" crowd as astronomically more annoying than any COD or Halo multiplayer meme person

 

[NightShift]

It pisses me off because it was the reason why I pretty much ignored the games until Bloodborne came out. I had no idea how brillant they were until I had the motivation that was Bloodborne's setting to get over the learning curve. After that I had no issues with the rest of the games.

 

[Slick Butter]

Someone I used to play videogames with told me they didn't want to try Souls because it looked like it was "trying to hard."
From what all they said, I gathered that they thought it was basically a high budget "I Wanna Be the Guy" kind of game. That annoyed me a bit.

 

[theRizzle]

I love all the games in the series, though the only one I've beat is Bloodborne (but I do have over 25 hours in each of the others). Like most people who have played and enjoyed the series, I have become a bit of a Soulsborne "dealer", and the thing I find is the most common criticism & biggest turnoff from series newcomers is not the difficulty but the repetition of areas.

Most of the people I introduce to the games have a BIG problem with playing the same parts over and over and over... especially when enemy placement is the same. I always ask them if they would enjoy the game more if it was the same difficulty or even a little harder, but with a checkpoint system instead of bonfires/lanterns and the answer is invariably yes.

 

[Com Truise]

The true misconception is about the kind of difficulty in these games. What you need is patience and caution, not elite gaming skills. Sword and board is going to carry everyone to the credits. Hide behind the shield and poke the enemy at opportune moments. That's where Souls differs from Ni-Oh btw, that game is more classic videogame hard and people who are not good at action games might get left behind.

 

[sublimit]

I hate my fellow fans more than the games.

The community makes me feel like I cant take advantage of easy boss tactics or exploits in a game that is happy to exploit me when im stuck at an obstacle or something. I personally place the "git gud" crowd as astronomically more annoying than any COD or Halo multiplayer meme person

I'm sorry to say but it's your fault for letting other people's attitudes bother you. Once the games got more popular (especially after Dark Souls 1 went to PC) a lot of stupid mentalities were "injected" into the community to the point that it's better to just ignore them and play the games with your own playstyle.

 

[TheExodu5]

Not at all. It's one of the most difficult, if not the most difficult popular series out there. Although fair, the game punishes the player for mistakes in ways that most games do not.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Not really... not everyone has to get it.

 

[DrunkShogun]

It's a shame because people won't consider the game because they think the game is designed to make you die. It annoys me when they call it bullshit if they die, souls is one of the franchises in which I can see the exact reason I died. You rarely die the same way again if your playing it and recognising errors.

 

[Surface of Me]

As someone who isnt the biggest fan of the series, they are more repetitive than difficult.

 

[Orakio Rob]

I've always heard that people who don't like Dark Souls don't know how to play it.

I played it for 5 hours. Sucked at it. Hated it. Quit.

Months passed.

Played it for ten hours. Sucked less, but still sucked. Hated it. Quit.

Fast forward to last week.

Played it for 30 hours. Finally mastered it. Parry, riposte, backstabbing, I'm great at it. Rang the two bells. Now I'm pretty sure I don't like it. Quit.

There's nothing wrong with the game. I can see how wonderful it is, I think it deserves all the praise it gets and I do recommend it to most of my friends. However, it's too combat-focused for me. I'm more of a platforming Prince of Persia guy.

Back on topic: when a game is hard, you keep having trouble overcoming it's challenges when you replay it. Dark Souls, however, is only hard on your first playthrough. Once you get how enemies work, it's actually pretty easy to beat.

 

[electroshockwave]

It bothers me when the perception of hardness affects how someone plays the game rather than paying attention to the actual game. For instance people going straight to the catacombs in Dark Souls. It's a terrible idea and after the first couple of tries you should be thinking to explore elsewhere. But if you're going on with the mentality that these games are stupidly hard you'll keep banging your head against that brick wall.

 

[atpbx]

Souls games are basically what every single game was like before "experiences" took over.

No mate that's not the case.

I played Dark Souls and just found it really really boring, not difficult, just tedious.

Older games were harder that's today sure, but not the way Dark Souls is designed.

 

[Veelk]

The misconception is one that the souls community has created for itself and still frequently waves if a player complains about the difficulty or even remarks on its shortcomings. I mean, several bosses do have shit like camera problems and bad hitbox detection. And some designs are not difficult, but just annoying and inconvenient, like a long path to a difficult boss that isn't really filled with enemies and just wastes your time.

That said, I'd question whether Souls is what people would actually even call hard. The biggest part is learning to fight while managing your stamina since you don't have an infinite amount of dodges or attacks or blocks. The other part is learning the movement of the game and how to approach an area. The other part is mostly just patience. I was just fighting the most difficult boss of DS3. I was dying a lot, and then I decided that I'd only get in one hit at a time before backing off. Once I did that, he became trivial. Which, btw, I don't consider a good thing necessarily, as I like a good old brawl out, but you just couldn't out muscle this one. But that's all it takes for several of these boss fights, just a slight change of tactics, a tiny bit of patience, and the game is instantly manageable.

 

[Maledict]

It's a shame because people won't consider the game because they think the game is designed to make you die. It annoys me when they call it bullshit if they die, souls is one of the franchises in which I can see the exact reason I died. You rarely die the same way again if your playing it and recognising errors.

The Steam edition is literally called "Prepare to Die".

Look, I love souls games. But lets not pretend here - the games do kill you, often, as a new player. Even ignoring the tutorial deaths, there are always spots in the game where you die to something you wouldn't have foreseen and then learn how to deal with it - that's cool, it's part of the fun. But the game absolutely intends to surprise kill you in that spot.

Personally, I find it fun. But I absolutely understand that for a lot of people that's frustrating and not fun, and the game isn't intended for them. And to hand wave that aspect away is silly when the game itself, and the advertising for the game, really pushes on that angle.

 

[YianGaruga]

ITT: "Once you use these tactics that took me hours to learn and years of experience playing games, it's not hard at all"

Yeah, no shit. That's every game ever. I guess difficult games simply don't exist.

 

[The First Guardian]

Not really. Because I've been there. I started with Dark Souls 2: SOFS and it was way harder than other normal games. It kinda felt pretentious to me. That 'Welcome to Dark Souls' trophy when you die for the first time didn't help at all. But I gave the game some more time and eventually fell in love with it. Then I played Bloodborne and it immediately became one of the best games ever for me. When I finished DS3, I didn't feel the difficulity at all. Currently playing original Dark Souls with BC and I kinda regret not starting the franchise with it. Can't wait for Demon's Souls remaster on PS4!!!!

 

[atpbx]

The game is hard if you go in blind. Sure you might not need great reaction speed, but there is a lot of trial error involved. Not knowing where to go causes deaths as well and might increase the challenge depending on where you go. You also need to learn the importance of upgrading. The game started to get manageable for me when I finally understood the importance of upgrading and finding a style that works for me, but before that it was whole lot of dying and it is difficult.

I found Ninja Gaiden II (x360) an easier game since it was basically just git gud to progress (with some trial & error). While without knowing the systems of the souls games you just do shitty damage and if you do shitty damage the encounters are damn brutal.

See Ninja Gaiden, that's a hard game, not because of awkward controls, unfair enemy placement, overpowered enemies or dodgy mechanics.

That's a proper old school hard game because you have to be on it form the get go, it's fantastic.

 

[Eumi]

Wait, what? Are we acting like souls games aren't hard now?

That process of adapting is the difficulty. What you're saying is that the game isn't hard once your good at it.

Also on the actual question, not really. If people don't enjoy the game or don't want to put the effort in to learn them why would that frustrate me? What joy could I possibly get from someone playing a game they don't like? Like, yeah, there is more to them then the difficulty, but that doesn't mean the difficulty doesn't exist.

 

[Soulflarz]

The true misconception is about the kind of difficulty in these games. What you need is patience and caution, not elite gaming skills. Sword and board is going to carry everyone to the credits. Hide behind the shield and poke the enemy at opportune moments. That's where Souls differs from Ni-Oh btw, that game is more classic videogame hard and people who are not good at action games might get left behind.

This
Ni-oh is harder, but it also feels cheaper. Shoutout to the paralysis boss with a what, four frame reaction time for the mixup?
I mean I beat it but still, I fully expect many reviewers and unaware people to go and say weird stuff like "it's dark souls if they made it too fun and hard" even though the type of difficulty is a completely different type in that regard.


I guess it conceptually bothers me that people claim souls is super hard and talk about it like a hardcore action game (ie- DMC on Dante Must Die or Hell/Hell) when it's just uncomfortable to get used to the systems in place for a bit- you shouldn't be getting stuck at x or y for hours, and if you are, rethink your strategy instead of brute forcing it.
Also understand the system of iframes- with that many invincibility frames, even a bad read on an attack will be safe- I beat the nameless king in ~15-20 minutes by just spamming roll once I saw each attack twice and counted the timing, if you do that right he can't hurt you at all.

 

[Marmaladefire]

Most of the people I introduce to the games have a BIG problem with playing the same parts over and over and over... especially when enemy placement is the same. I always ask them if they would enjoy the game more if it was the same difficulty or even a little harder, but with a checkpoint system instead of bonfires/lanterns and the answer is invariably yes.

This is the problem. It isn't that it's hard, but that people don't want to backtrack through repetitive darkgrim areas every time they make a slight miscalculation This isn't me saying Soulsborne isn't objectively good and artistically beautiful, but for many gamers there is a level of immersion breaking caused by the feeling of a lack of progression, paired with a lore that can seem dense, sparse, and confusing all at once. This, with a time/investment vs reward issue (which relates to the repetition and lack of checkpoints) that make them inaccessible and unwelcoming.

I feel quite critical of many (most) AAA "experiences" but Soulsborne is not my first recommendation for someone who has a busy schedule and cares about finishing games.