How does that go against my point?
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Killer Mike on Dem. black vote: "Taken for granted" "Expect something for your vote!"
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How does that go against my point?
benjipwns
Banned
It's horseshit to say they can't complain about something they had no control over.
So Much Bullshit.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Agree 100%. The reason why things are so stagnant are because only one of the two major parties in this country actually take voting seriously at every opportunity. Republicans sure as fuck don't have a problem with working to make sure that more than one branch of government is under their control. And they got rewarded this election cycle.
Meanwhile the liberal side of this country is amazing at pointing out societal problems, but if anything less than a knight in shining armor is at the top of the ticket, they stay the fuck home. We got a Knight in 08, but despite all the adoration he got, his attempts to actually build some strong support in congress going forward fell on deaf ears while Republicans got their fucking shit together and told their base that they needed to do anything they could to push back.
There are a lot things wrong with America and the underlying system, but I'm seeing a lot of people who didn't even bother to try and then asking themselves why nothing changes. It's fucking maddening knowing that only ONE party can actually consistently get state and local support. The first black president of the united states is going to have everything he worked for get reversed as soon as he leaves office. And even considering how dire this situation is, I'm still can't seriously convince my self fellow democrats will actually drag their asses to mid-terms for once and stop fucking pretending that only the oval office is able to make their lives better.
Republicans grin ear to ear whenever they hear somebody say "my vote won't change anything anyways" or "both sides are the same", why the hell do you think they've been spending these last several years trying to make voting as inconvenient as possible. This was their fucking game plan and a significant amount of people in this country fell for it.
The idea of a protest vote is pretty stupid IMO, especially if the point is to make the Democrats lean more left. There is a chance that the Dems decide they need to go more right. After all, they came up with one of the most progressive platforms ever, but people didn't give a fuck. How do they know these voters won't just decide to protest vote against next time? Perfect is the enemy of good.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Seriously. How fucked are we when people think that the only way to change things for the better is to get another black eye? Fuck actually being preventative and then discuss how to move forward from there, let's just do this tug of war against a party that has no problem being unified.
When exactly did pragmatism become the devil in the liberal movement?
lastflowers
Banned
Good thing we funded that GoFundMe page to rebuild the Republican field office!
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
We've always voted like this. However, this election turned into who could tell the better lie.
Trump told downtrodden White America, especially in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania and others that the good paying jobs are coming back. They aren't and the people that have those jobs now; some will lose them before they retire. Globalization won't allow it to happen any other way.
That said, both parties did a piss poor job retraining people that did lose their jobs.
lastflowers
Banned
Wow, didn't expect that at all tbh. So basically it's all on Dem traditional voters being disenfranchised as fuck by their candidate.
lastflowers
Banned
We'd need to analyze the individual states that flipped to see the demographic changes. But taken as a whole, the white vote didn't change very much. Much analysis has already been done in bits of Wisconsin and PA, but I don't have any good links handy.
tearsintherain
Member
disenfranchised by their candidate implies they were stripped of their right to vote. They were disillusioned or disappointed by Hillary Clinton and didn't bother to come out to vote to the tune of nearly 6m voters - who would have, proportionally in the states that mattered, given Hillary the win - but not disenfranchised.
UnemployedVillain
Member
That's not how you use "disenfranchised"
I dunno. I feel like people, in understandable frustration, are equating slow progress to no progress. I can't honestly say that the relatively small changes and encouragement of national discourse by the Dems are negatives. BLM would probably not have gotten much attention under a modern Republican president, and in all likelihood, I fear for the movement under Trump. But my point is that it seems dangerous to act like one side doing little is the same as the other actively and intentionally stripping away rights.
Skellig Gra
Member
Yep, the more I see its painfully obvious that the only people Democrats have to blame is themselves for not voting. Trump got the same votes any Republican would get, maybe even less.
Ops, i meant... something like disappointed/disillusioned i guess? Sorry for the mistake.
Idk,, the things happening now may happened even with a Clinton Victory but instead of a power demonstration, they would do it because of the "rigged system "
Cesare Borgia
Banned
Having worked in inner city politics for awhile, I've always been interested by the way democrats get away with providing a certain status quo for black supporters, compared to other interest/minority groups. They make sure money streams where it needs to go, provide lip service, etc; typical city shit. On the national level Obama has done a lot on civil rights, crack/cocaine sentence disparity, his DOJ has defended the VRA vigorously, etc etc...but there are a lot of things that have not been done. From HBCU support to the way the stimulus was doled out in relation to inner cities.
Ultimately change starts on the grass roots level. We need to reach a point where just because a handful of pastors get paid to endorse someone, that doesn't mean that person deserves your fucking vote. There's a very ineffective "city establishment" hierarchy that does not have the people's best interests in mind.
While I'm not a fan of BLM from an organizational perspective, there is potential there. Community outreach is hard work. Politicians need to be held accountable, not given a pass because Obama endorsed them, or someone else. I like the fact that BLM is not kissing ass. They aren't holding gala dinners and giving people awards for doing nothing.
Ultimately change starts on the grass roots level. We need to reach a point where just because a handful of pastors get paid to endorse someone, that doesn't mean that person deserves your fucking vote. There's a very ineffective "city establishment" hierarchy that does not have the people's best interests in mind.
While I'm not a fan of BLM from an organizational perspective, there is potential there. Community outreach is hard work. Politicians need to be held accountable, not given a pass because Obama endorsed them, or someone else. I like the fact that BLM is not kissing ass. They aren't holding gala dinners and giving people awards for doing nothing.
It's mainly Hilary's fault for not appealing to the Democratic base.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
The Clinton administration would have done a lot more for the black community, and the future of this planet, than the Trump administration. I think we can all agree on that?
We all knew the choice wasn't perfect, but it was clear. That is no excuse.
We all knew the choice wasn't perfect, but it was clear. That is no excuse.
Skellig Gra
Member
You are right but still that's a cop out. I'm an independent and I voted for Hillary 100% to stop Trump. People need to grow up.
lol, well in terms of the black community that's like comparing 0 for Hillary versus negative numbers for Trump. Look at her VP pick, she could have chosen someone like Corey Booker but goes for the stiff white guy instead.
MHWilliams
Member
You can, but the truth is *you still have to live with either option*. The weight comes down regardless and at the very least you have the choice. If your choice is Pepsi or Faygo, and you have to drink one of them, I'd do everything to make sure Pepsi is my choice.
I've said this ad nauseum: Many minorities have never had a candidate that reflects their views in the history of this country.
Spiral Insanity
Banned
I know. That was a strange choice. But still, now I feel we are doomed, no hope.
UnemployedVillain
Member
This is literally what got us in this position. If minorities truly believe that Hillary Clinton was a "shit" choice, on the order of Donald Trump, then we're in trouble. Because as far as I can see one side is FAR better than the other, is actually receptive to hearing black voices and concerns, and even if she doesn't do much, probably won't actively cause a regression in progress. People are far too quick to jump to extremes and hyperbolic statements
Even if that were true, and I dont think it is, at the very least you wouldnt have emboldened bigots for the next 4 years. You also wouldnt have an administration that will enact policies and reforms to fuck over black people and anyone else that isn't a straight white male.
The Clinton administration would have done a lot for her corporate donors for sure.
Well with voting restriction laws, Democrats need an inspiring candidate that can get people to come out and vote.
The Republican vote is more reliable because it is harder for democrats to vote. The best way to counter this is to energize people so that they come out to vote for you rather than against your opponent.
Clinton failed to do that and that's why she lost.
Skellig Gra
Member
You are right but there has to be some way to increase consistent Democrat voter engagement. They never turn out for non-presidential elections and only for president if they are "inspiring". Maybe thats why old people turn Republican because they are just jaded as fuck by then.
Permanently A
Junior Member
"I voted for Jill Stein"
Oh Mike. He makes good music, but I can't agree with his politics.
Oh Mike. He makes good music, but I can't agree with his politics.
This would be my choice too, if I had to make it. The thing is I've never lived in poverty. I've never been black, or part of any minority at all. That's why I was so shook when I saw the killer mike video. It all made a horrible kind of sense. Why should we (or, I guess "you" since I'm not from the US) continue to expect minorities to show up and support candidates that in the end won't give a shit. The poor kept getting poorer, even under Obama. That's why I made the thread. To see if more americans, specifically black americans, shared Mikes views and if they did, what we could do to prevent another rust belt catastrophe.
Maybe it's too soon after the election. Emotions are running hot and people are justifiably angry that people sat and watched while Trump took the presidency. I'm just wondering.. you know... why? Why didn't they vote? How can we make them vote next time?
I don't think (and take what I think with a huge grain of salt) that minorities believed that Hillary was "as" shit as Trump. It's simply that "shit" wouldn't do it any more and they would rather let the world burn than participate in the system which won't ever let them participate on the same level as everyone else. As Moore said it, a big "fuck you!" to the establishment, to democrats, to themselves... to everyone and every thing.
They could have voted for Hillary (or even a third party as ineffective as that was but you could argue at least they tried. By not voting they didn't even try). If they didn't vote, they chose to not have any control over it at all. That's horse shit to say they had no control. They chose to have zero control. They chose not to have their voice heard. Sure, in voting you also need other people to put in their voice and have it be the same. But if they don't vote, that's one less choice that would be the same as their own. That was my entire point! If more people who didn't like Trump had come out to vote against him maybe we wouldn't have Trump. It was pretty close in places so don't say they wouldn't have had influence. At one point in the counting the difference in New Hamsphire was 18 votes! *18*! And it could have come down to New Hampshire's 2 votes to actually chose the election (if Hillary had gotten MIchigan, and Pennsylvania but not Wisconson).
If everyone who wanted to vote for Hillary just stayed home cause their one vote mattered, Trump would have won the whole US. If Trump voters listened to the polls and decided to stay home cause they thought their one vote didn't matter, we'd have Hillary. By choosing not to vote, you are choosing to allow other people to decide for you. You are relinquising whatever control you had (and yes, you did have some control by voting. A candidate needs votes to win).
"You can choose not to decide you still have made a choice." .... Rush
I completely agree with both his points and his decision to vote for Stein - trying to shame people who from the beginning had very concise reasons for not voting Hillary is simply denying the real issues people had with her and decided to stay at home or voted 3rd party. Personally I hope Mike is considering doing something on local, state or national level in terms of either moving his ideas forward or running for office. I pretty much agree with everything I've seen him propose outside of his ideas on gun control.
“TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT OF THEIR BANKS!”
“TAKE YOUR MONEY OUT OF THEIR BANKS!”
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Sums it up pretty well. This guy needs to grow up.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
Are you black?
Mammoth Jones
Member
I can. Democrats come through ever 4 years for dat booty call and we always drop drawers, grab ankles and question nothing. Expecting that ring any day now...😂😢
"But the other side worse!" Only gonna work as a holding pattern for so long.
Personally I think we gotta focus on local communities. Stop trying to hold hands with everyone cause at the end of the day ain't no one trying to hold ours unless we know our place and get in line.
I said this I'm another thread but how can I worry about feeding someone else's kid until mines got a full belly. I'm not saying I don't care about others it's just I feel we gotta focus on ourselves and stop expect other to do it for us.
And what changes? We suffering now. Been suffering. Ain't like we not used to it. There's a reason I dropped out the Democrat party and Killer Mike is on to the reason why.
CambriaRising
Member
Hello, my name is the IRS. Gimme some of your paycheck please.
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
Black people have been suffering since they arrived here. The clamps loosened but then were reclamped after the Civil rights movement as punishment for standing up.
UnemployedVillain
Member
If you're serious than this post is fucking embarrassing. This is the type of shit that causes people to inexplicably hate Hillary Clinton. She's been carrying hot sauce in her bag since fucking 1992. It's not pandering. It's you guys trying to find reasons to hate as usual
Muppet of a Man
Member
This is why I hate our 2 party system. When you hold an oligopoly of power, even with a reviled opponent, you lose the thirst to serve your citizens. You feel entitled to be served. More competition would keep them on their toes. A parliamentary system would be better with the concept of unity government (multi party coalition) .
Clinton fans before: You can't simply expect people to see you as their best choice and vote for you in rational self-interest; you need to go out and campaign, avoid bad optics, and sell the right message for their vote!
Clinton fans now: I can't believe you idiots didn't vote* for your rational self-interest; who cares that she didn't campaign where necessary, mitigate bad optics, or have a message!
*We did
Clinton fans now: I can't believe you idiots didn't vote* for your rational self-interest; who cares that she didn't campaign where necessary, mitigate bad optics, or have a message!
*We did
UnemployedVillain
Member
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
The pandering is her saying, "Is it working?"
That's all people in PoliGAF ever said about racist Bernie and his racist BLM supporter supporters as the primaries went on.
UnemployedVillain
Member
It's called a joke. People make them to be funny. You guys see it as pandering because you want to
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
It isn't a joke when black people have been treated unfairly.
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