I think the last time we did this was years ago. Idle Thumbs ep 11 and its followup, Idle Thimbs XI-2. (We made a little logo for that episode and its somehow still working in the website backend. That episode also opens amazingly.) We also did a New Years episode that was a rehash of a discussion we'd recorded for Medium but never released, and one time we did an Idle Thumbs Network clip show because we all were owned for some reason. So it's super rare!
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Idle Thumbs Megathread | Indepth discussion inbetween horsebags and birdsounds
- Thread starter Lijik
- Start date
I think the last time we did this was years ago. Idle Thumbs ep 11 and its followup, Idle Thimbs XI-2. (We made a little logo for that episode and its somehow still working in the website backend. That episode also opens amazingly.) We also did a New Years episode that was a rehash of a discussion we'd recorded for Medium but never released, and one time we did an Idle Thumbs Network clip show because we all were owned for some reason. So it's super rare!
chaobreaker
Member
Can't speak for everyone but I have been listening to Idle Thumbs for maybe a year or so (Danielle was still a regular and Nick was like some unseen legend that the rest of the cast would talk fondly about.)
It's one of my favourite podcasts to listen to even if the guys don't have many new games to talk about. They still have those great insights into game design that only seasoned, hardened veterans of the games industry would have.
I don't know, I just like being on their dumb inside jokes. Sue me.
It's one of my favourite podcasts to listen to even if the guys don't have many new games to talk about. They still have those great insights into game design that only seasoned, hardened veterans of the games industry would have.
I don't know, I just like being on their dumb inside jokes. Sue me.
Ok so I don't know where to raise this but. Does Sean Vanaman know Jon Favreau? I see Sean @ him on Twitter p regularly but never seen it reciprocated. Is... is Sean just a big ole fanboy here?
paperboywriter
Member
listend to the last two episodes and can confirm its good again. gonna listen to some more of the recent episodes.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
episode 11-2 is one of the best
Nappuccino
Member
Since we're talking about the "good old days," does any one remember the space game they played in the, I believe, Telltale offices?
And / or, does anyone have the link to the website that cateloged the idle thumbs topics in searchable form? Listening to Nick Breckon describe how he backstabbed the entire office was one of my early highlights.
Also ep 24 has one of the strongest episode starts ever. "Shadow, Colossus, my office now!"
And / or, does anyone have the link to the website that cateloged the idle thumbs topics in searchable form? Listening to Nick Breckon describe how he backstabbed the entire office was one of my early highlights.
Also ep 24 has one of the strongest episode starts ever. "Shadow, Colossus, my office now!"
You mean the ThumbsDB? I'm not entirely sure how up to date it is. I imagine you're looking for the Neptune's Pride 2 playthrough, which I think starts at episode 102?
And yeah, Shadow and Colossus: Back in Action is a strong contender for best ever cast. I'm partial to the first set of GDC Conf Grenades just because of the variety and hilarious antics.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Was the game Neptune's Pride?
Nappuccino
Member
ThumbsDB scrapes YouTube I believe, so it is up to date... I think that's the case at least.
Ah indeed it does! Awesome. I'm happy that Robot News has earned the top overall spot in podcast lore once you skip past the intro songs and, uh, certain people quipping about it being the start of the episode. That despite not starting until episode 115! Might just have to turn on the Robot News playlist tomorrow at work.
My low-key favourite thing is watching various Thumbs @ people from political podcasts.
ebullientprism
Member
Aw man. They had games discussed listed in the podcast description for one podcast and I was stoked. Then they forgot it right away for the next one. :/
I totally crapped that into our content management system last week to see how it worked. It's not a good permanent solution but I'm glad it was noticed and appreciated! We'll try and sort that out properly in the near future.
ebullientprism
Member
FWIW, on Android using Podcast Addict app, it was perfect. It would be great if you could make that a regular thing.
Find out when the next Elon Musk conference is.
Chris is gone this weekend otherwise that would be really good. I thought about it.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
Jake, the weird drink you're thinking of is Squeezit and they just mentioned them on this week's Bombcast! The quantum connection between IT and GB still exists!
Edit: Welp I just got to the part where you remembered the name. Still, stop ripping off GB all the time!
Edit: Welp I just got to the part where you remembered the name. Still, stop ripping off GB all the time!
I liked Sean's run on the cast just because I'm also a DOTA fan, but I can see how that'd get tiring. He did dominate conversations, but I usually liked his input anyways.
I wasn't really a fan of Danielle on Idle Thumbs, and Idle Weekend really accentuated her podcasting short-comings. She always felt like she just went along with the group, almost always backing down on a contrasting opinion. Also I don't think she every said anything funny lol.
But this cast has been really good recently. Insightful as always, and the Christ/Jake/Nick combo is still strong.
I wasn't really a fan of Danielle on Idle Thumbs, and Idle Weekend really accentuated her podcasting short-comings. She always felt like she just went along with the group, almost always backing down on a contrasting opinion. Also I don't think she every said anything funny lol.
But this cast has been really good recently. Insightful as always, and the Christ/Jake/Nick combo is still strong.
chaobreaker
Member
Wonder if the Thumbs crew will talk about the recent developments around Rimworld's... development. It wasn't too long ago that they were streaming the game and swapping Rimworld stories on the podcast.
Yeah, Rimworld went off my wishlist pretty quickly yesterday. The arc of seeing the article (where the decisions were weird but possibly ok) to that paranoid-bizarre response (where maybe he just needs to learn more), and then to learning he was a full-blown gator was so weird and off-putting.
It's a lot easier for me to separate my feeling about an artist from their works when some time has passed from when the artist is news, and I don't feel like by buying their work I'm also making a statement about their politics or behavior... but even then I don't have a hard line. (Sometimes a person's actions are so offputtinf to me that I won't buy their work again and sometimes that isn't the case, for one mega subjective reason or internal argument or rationalization or another in my brain.) I'm a bad barometer for this subject is what I'm saying.
(I know I only framed that answer in terms of how I feel about buying an artists work and that act's relationship to the artist, and ignored the separate thread of criticism of the artists work, and whether you include the artist and their deeds and statements into their work. Sorry about that.)
Also we didn't talk about it on the show at least in part because we recorded early Wednesday morning and none of us had seen the story yet.
Chris Remo
Member
I tend to separate them most of the time, in part because I think (for me) it's usually more interesting to let the text speak for itself and that taking into account the author's own intentions and experiences too much is kind of putting the thumb on the scale—partially in the sense that it feels like pop psychology to me to try and read into someone's intentions and divine how that makes its way into art.
That general philosophy is made a lot harder to navigate in the era of online social networks and 24-hour entertainment news coverage. Traditionally we just didn't have access to ANYONE's minute thoughts about stuff outside of our own social sphere or the comparatively rare instances in which creators decided to share their thoughts by way of writing or interviews.
The current RimWorld incident is the craziest and most modern version of all this, involving critical analysis and artist response in basically real-time.
This is my take: Tynan's responses make me feel bad about the whole thing. They don't make me excited to play more RimWorld. That's a visceral reaction, though, not an actual evaluation of the work. As for an evaluation of the work, I think the original Rock Paper Shotgun article is a brilliant example: it simply evaluates what is in the text itself, without questioning motive. It's a really thorough and thoughtful critique of a type we rarely see in video games; that is, examining code itself. I think it's really good ground to break. I think it's a better approach to evaluate the game through critical analysis like that than through Tynan's kneejerk responses. Both the code analysis and Tynan's responses illustrate a worldview that is reflected in the game, so you don't need to use Tynan's responses as a reason to criticize the game; to me, the code analysis and the in-game result is sufficient. I think it's generally speaking better practice to keep separate criticism of the work for its content, and criticism of the author for his or her actions.
So I'm trying to separate my general gross response to the incident from my critical response to the work itself. And I try to do that generally. I think the critical analysis reflects poorly enough on the game that it is sufficient. (And that's a bummer, as someone who has enjoyed the game a lot.)
There's also yet ANOTHER weird wrench thrown into all this, which is that Tynan has indicated his intention to change these systems to reflect the criticism that's been leveled. This type of constantly-updated game is also sort of a new thing, especially in a world of auto-patching. Authors have always revised their work, of course, but auto-updating digital works have the ability to fundamentally change themselves in a way that is historically unusual (e.g., if you own a copy of a book, and a new edition is published, your copy remains intact). So, assuming these changes are made, at what point do we discard the prior versions of the game in critical analysis? Will it even remain technically feasible for a significant number of people to continue to examine the previous version of the game once it's been patched over?
By extension, we (certainly I) consider self-improvement and self-reflection a virtue, so how long do we let ill-conceived assumptions and ill-advised outbursts define an artist's public identity, if indeed they seem to come to a genuine change of heart? And how do we know if such evolution is genuine? (That kind of question is one reason I try to divorce artist intention and interiority from criticism of the work itself; how do we ever know?)
I realize I'm sort of posing more questions than opinions here, other than my generally broad opinion that it is better practice to try and judge art and artist separately. That doesn't mean I don't think anyone should judge artists ever (they probably should be judged no more or less than anyone else), simply that I think it's on balance safer to judge the works on their own. If a harmful worldview makes its way into the game, than that is entirely fair game.
EDIT: Jake's post reminds me that I also think, regardless of any ultimate judgments one way or the other, the constantly-on nature of the internet and social media generally brings out the worst in people and makes them act in defensive and tribal ways, which doesn't put anyone in a good light. That does NOT mean I'm saying that a wrong opinion is only wrong because of the internet, simply that having any discussion in good faith—with the possibility of intellectual improvement—is often sabotaged from square one.
Yeah, I asked here because I figured you guys have already recorded the podcast after all this came out. Shame these great answers aren't on the cast.
My opinion is similar to Jake's; hearing that the person who made something is bad/terrible will add a negative modifier to whether I like/want to buy a game, because while games are (can be) art, they are also commercial products, and I don't really feel good about contributing to the livelihood of someone who holds such insensitive stances. Of course, it depends on how bad their values/actions are, like I could overlook someone being a dick/asshole if their game is really good, but saaaay... funding a hate group is a little too much.
To be honest, espousing one's world view in their product doesn't mean that much to me in regards to driving me away by way of revulsion. I find it more interesting than disgusting (most of the time), to see how they can twist mechanics and systems into something they perceive the world to be. A game presenting a prejudiced/discriminatory viewpoint can still be used as food for thought, in both a gameplay design and morality sense. Plus, it can totally go the other way in a very hopeful or optimistic direction. The bummer is that such cynically designed games usually come from people who I'd rather not support, and it's really put a damper on me being interested in Rimworld. But as Chris says, introspection and self-improvement is a virtue. I used to really dislike Phil Fish for example, and it kept me away from playing Fez, but now I'm more or less neutral on him as he seems to have learnt from his mistakes (or at least presents himself as such).
My opinion is similar to Jake's; hearing that the person who made something is bad/terrible will add a negative modifier to whether I like/want to buy a game, because while games are (can be) art, they are also commercial products, and I don't really feel good about contributing to the livelihood of someone who holds such insensitive stances. Of course, it depends on how bad their values/actions are, like I could overlook someone being a dick/asshole if their game is really good, but saaaay... funding a hate group is a little too much.
To be honest, espousing one's world view in their product doesn't mean that much to me in regards to driving me away by way of revulsion. I find it more interesting than disgusting (most of the time), to see how they can twist mechanics and systems into something they perceive the world to be. A game presenting a prejudiced/discriminatory viewpoint can still be used as food for thought, in both a gameplay design and morality sense. Plus, it can totally go the other way in a very hopeful or optimistic direction. The bummer is that such cynically designed games usually come from people who I'd rather not support, and it's really put a damper on me being interested in Rimworld. But as Chris says, introspection and self-improvement is a virtue. I used to really dislike Phil Fish for example, and it kept me away from playing Fez, but now I'm more or less neutral on him as he seems to have learnt from his mistakes (or at least presents himself as such).
I haven't listened to this show in a couple years. When I recently heard that Nick was back on the show, I jumped back in, and whaddya know-- it's awesome. Not only that, but my first episode upon returning was one featuring discussion of Tokyo DisneySea, a park I've always wanted to visit.
On the subject of art/artist: I think it's important to separate them. Creative works evolve, people evolve, and the conversations that occur around creative works have traditionally played a large part in what guides the evolution of their creators over time. I'm of the belief that failure to separate the art from the artist cheapens those conversations, but I'm also not sure how much impact those conversations actually have anymore. We have many tools available to us that allow us to block out any perspective that differs from our own. You can use these to pretend that Phil Fish does not exist, but conversely, Phil Fish can use the same tools to pretend that you do not exist.
On the subject of art/artist: I think it's important to separate them. Creative works evolve, people evolve, and the conversations that occur around creative works have traditionally played a large part in what guides the evolution of their creators over time. I'm of the belief that failure to separate the art from the artist cheapens those conversations, but I'm also not sure how much impact those conversations actually have anymore. We have many tools available to us that allow us to block out any perspective that differs from our own. You can use these to pretend that Phil Fish does not exist, but conversely, Phil Fish can use the same tools to pretend that you do not exist.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
thanks for doing a podcast this week
i was super into it
NumberThree
Member
The Mario callback during Chris' Hitman story was the funniest shit in a while.
Thanks Thumbs.
When you started this week's episode it was clear that you didn't want to be doing this at all given the election this week. But you pushed through it anyway to deliver on a hilarious episode which was really refreshing, and really needed. So thanks for recording even though no one wanted to at first.
When you started this week's episode it was clear that you didn't want to be doing this at all given the election this week. But you pushed through it anyway to deliver on a hilarious episode which was really refreshing, and really needed. So thanks for recording even though no one wanted to at first.
By the time we got to Nick's Battlefield 1 standoff I wanted to be nowhere else.
(Actually that's false. It was when the Mario shit invaded the episode. Nick's callback to that way late into the Hitman segment actually ruined me for a while during recording.)
The Dutch Slayer
Member
I wanted to say thanks to the Thumbs crew, too! With all the political analysis I've been unable to stop myself from consuming this week (from things I've heard Chris say on the podcast we follow a lot of the same websites and pundits), Idle Thumbs was a much needed mental break from the frustration and anger I've been struggling to cope with. Hilarious episode.
Threat Neutralized.
Threat Neutralized.
Chris Remo
Member
Thanks, folks. Really nice to see all the kind words about an episode I was reluctant to record at all. I ended up having a ton of fun on this one and am very happy we did it.
That whole section was classic Thumbs. Loved it.
Episode 286: I laughed so hard to the collective response to the email about increasing the audience by having guests on the show and appearing as guests on other podcasts.
Here is the start of the full email being read: https://youtu.be/6mTnfGfjrjE?list=PLC6A6E798515CCFE0&t=4262
And here is the relevant part of the response: https://youtu.be/6mTnfGfjrjE?list=PLC6A6E798515CCFE0&t=4350
The deflated tone of Chris's voice as he says "yeah... anyway", whether intentional or not, is just perfect.
Here is the start of the full email being read: https://youtu.be/6mTnfGfjrjE?list=PLC6A6E798515CCFE0&t=4262
And here is the relevant part of the response: https://youtu.be/6mTnfGfjrjE?list=PLC6A6E798515CCFE0&t=4350
Chris: Well anyone on big famous podcasts that wants to invite us onto your podcast, here's your chance.
<pause>
Jake: I'd be down
Chris: yeah.... anyway.
FNB: Are you listening Ira? Are you out there? ...
<pause>
Jake: I'd be down
Chris: yeah.... anyway.
FNB: Are you listening Ira? Are you out there? ...
The deflated tone of Chris's voice as he says "yeah... anyway", whether intentional or not, is just perfect.
People who haven't been watching Nick play Dark Souls have been doing it wrong.
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/AnnoyingBeaverTF2John
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/ProudFlyHassanChop
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/BadSquirrelPuppeyFace
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/LongAnteaterFailFish
Edit: This is the most important one.
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/AnnoyingBeaverTF2John
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/ProudFlyHassanChop
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/BadSquirrelPuppeyFace
https://clips.twitch.tv/idlethumbs/LongAnteaterFailFish
Edit: This is the most important one.
It's killing me. "Hmm how do I equip armor, can't find it while looking directly at it GUESS YOU CAN'T"
can't wait for the next one Nick <3
Hey Jake,
In a recent episode you were talking about about 2D side scrolling game control setups with directional keyboard controls and mouse aiming (I think in relation to Owl Boy?). You mentioned Abuse as your first memory of this setup - I thought at the time that surely as a fine Mac gaming lad you'd have played Dark Castle well before this?
Also, just in case you haven't seen it - there's a Secret History of Mac Gaming book being crowd funded and published soon.
In a recent episode you were talking about about 2D side scrolling game control setups with directional keyboard controls and mouse aiming (I think in relation to Owl Boy?). You mentioned Abuse as your first memory of this setup - I thought at the time that surely as a fine Mac gaming lad you'd have played Dark Castle well before this?
Also, just in case you haven't seen it - there's a Secret History of Mac Gaming book being crowd funded and published soon.
Similar threads
- Locked