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[Timeaisis]

You all know what I’m talking about. It’s in a lot of games, not even necessarily RPGs. You get a quest to go find some glowing stones somewhere. You get there, a large circle pops up on your minimap indicating the “search area” and then you get to run around in said circle for upwards of five minutes looking for some random quest items. Joy! Find five red roses to lay on the grave of whatshisface to get some EXP. Woo. How compelling.

This trend is getting tiring. Sure, it’s been around forever, but it’s become increasingly popular the last few years because of the rise of open world games. Not only that, it’s a completely boring, time wasting activity. It’s not engaging at all, and I often find myself just literally running around in said circle for multiple minutes looking for the 5th and final red rose or green frog or whatever. I have no idea why this quest design exists other than filler, and not only is it not particularly good filler, it’s actively bad, boring, frustrating filler. Like, it’s not neutral like some other filler quests. It’s that I actively hate what I’m doing.

I almost quit The Witcher 3 for the amount of stupid run around this circle area quests it had. It felt like every other quests was essentially that. It doesn’t help I’m color blind and had trouble seeing the “highlighted” bits when you got near them. Still, after the color blind patch, at the end of the day you are still running around in a circle for multiple minutes to find a few items. Who thought this was fun? FFXV has them, too, albeit less than TW3, but they are just as aggravating when they pop up. Open world games love these things for some reason, and I have no idea why. The sad part is the developers could have just made, with very limited effort, some damn icons on the map telling me exactly where to find the red rose of whatever, but nooo we need a challenge as gamers, right? Who the hell cares if it’s not challenging? It’s not challenging in the first place, it’s just damn quest busywork. Let’s not pretend that having completely obvious collection quests would somehow be less fun than slightly more obtuse but infinitely more frustrating ones (which aren’t fun to begin with).

It feels like an active waste of time, and it is. I’m tired of games completely disrespecting the player’s time, and this is the poster child of that trend, as far as I can tell. Take your player’s moment-to-moment enjoyment seriously, for fuck’s sake.

There's probably plenty more games that do this, too. Thoughts, GAF?

 

[Glix]

I agree with you in a lot of respects...

But quests where it just tells you exactly where to go are horrible too. You just feel like you are following instructions, not playing a game.

 

[Skilletor]

I agree with you in a lot of respects...

But quests where it just tells you exactly where to go are horrible too. You just feel like you are following instructions, not playing a game.

I remember the good old days when NPCs would be like:

"It's to the forest in the north next to the rock shaped like the moon. Ware the Feral Rabbit monster that rests beneath its shade."

And then you'd go to the north and wander the forest to find the rock shaped liked the moon, and when you got there, you'd fight the feral rabbit monster that rested beneath its shade and get your item.

And also probably a lucky rabbits foot.

 

[Bronetta]

Theyre the fucking worst. I hate pixel hunting in general.

 

[Chase17]

Must find all the frogs

 

[Raonak]

Must find all the frogs

Yep. Took me a whole ingame day to find.

 

[Newtype-001]

The first thing i thought of was the witcher 3 im glad the op was about that ugh it was so bad. it felt like every quest i was doing that.

 

[Neoleo2143]

I hate these quests because they don't really test anything despite being lucky. Observation isn't really tested when it's the task presented here.

Zelda: BOTW's Koroks do this a million times better because they're all about figuring environmental inconsistencies or going to really cool places.

 

[Movalpolos]

Agreed. There are a few quests in FFXV that I refuse to finish because they are exactly like this.

 

[xxracerxx]

That shit in The Witcher was terrible....always.

 

[Timeaisis]

I agree with you in a lot of respects...

But quests where it just tells you exactly where to go are horrible too. You just feel like you are following instructions, not playing a game.

Yeah, they are, but at least they are over with quickly.

I remember the good old days when NPCs would be like:

"It's to the forest in the north next to the rock shaped like the moon. Ware the Feral Rabbit monster that rests beneath its shade."

And then you'd go to the north and wander the forest to find the rock shaped liked the moon, and when you got there, you'd fight the feral rabbit monster that rested beneath its shade and get your item.

And also probably a lucky rabbits foot.

Exactly! Give me something to fucking do. Yes, I'm wandering around, but I'm engaged and active and figuring something out. I feel useful. The "circle search" feels like a compromise between the "here's exactly where to go" and the old more open-ended approach, but with all the disadvantages of both, and loosing out on the advantages.

Must find all the frogs

Haha, yup. Inspired me to write this thread after I was reminded of those terrible quests in TW3.

 

[flaxknuckles]

Naw, I like this. It's a lot better than just mindlessly following a waypoint.

 

[Memento]

I agree.

 

[Briarios]

It's better than not having the circle and realizing you've been searching the wrong area for two hours.

Searching for stuff is an archetypal part of questing ...

 

[Akuun]

Yeah, I hate that shit. It's right next to "Kill 50 tigers", "gather 20 plants", and "bring back 30 of this particular monster drop that has a 5% droprate" in the holy shitpile of stupid MMO quests.

 

[Skilletor]

Naw, I like this. It's a lot better than just mindlessly following a waypoint.

Or...hear me out. They could design a unique world with interesting landmarks and you wouldn't need a circle to find something or a waypoint to know where to go. Instead of boring indistinguishable landmass repeated over and over for the sake of feeling like an adventure, or like a big game, or whatever the fuck bullet point they want.

This is why the "open" part of open world games is the worst thing ever to me. So fucking boring.

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

Witcher 3 is extraordinary but the amount of find x with your witcher senses quests really made me tired and angry.

 

[georly]

I remember the good old days when NPCs would be like:

"It's to the forest in the north next to the rock shaped like the moon. Ware the Feral Rabbit monster that rests beneath its shade."

And then you'd go to the north and wander the forest to find the rock shaped liked the moon, and when you got there, you'd fight the feral rabbit monster that rested beneath its shade and get your item.

And also probably a lucky rabbits foot.

problem with that is your average gamer doesn't want to stop playing the game to read the quest text. What will happen is they'll take the quest, say they're 'stuck' and either look it up or quit the game and sell it back.

This is an unfortunate solution to the 'how do we tell the player where to go without being too easy or too hard.'

the reality is that fetch quests where you pick stuff up off the ground are just not a fun game mechanic in general. A circle that tells you the general area where a monster roams is a bit better when doing 'hunting quests.'

It's better than not having the circle and realizing you've been searching the wrong area for two hours.

Searching for stuff is an archetypal part of questing ...

It's just trying to solve a problem to keep a not-so-great mechanic in games for even longer. Unless the thing you're searching for is a one-of-a-kind item that can only be found in a very dangerous area, why should my hero character be doing a menial task like that? No movie or book has the lead picking flowers out back to give to a dude to make a potion (ok maybe some probably do but the point is they shouldn't be). They'd just pay the dude for the potion.

 

[Like the hat?]

Asked to Find the amethyst for Dino in FFXV. Go to the circle. Look for ten minutes, constant battles. Get frustrated, look it up. It's just outside of the circle.

Get bent, SE.

 

[xviper]

try the Frogs finding quests in FFXV, it will take at least half hour to finish one, there should be a hint if it took too long because it's boring AF

 

[bananafactory]

Asked to Find the amethyst for Dino in FFXV. Go to the circle. Look for ten minutes, constant battles. Get frustrated, look it up. It's just outside of the circle.

Get bent, SE.

The animal traps quest is really bad for that. They're almost impossible to see

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

Yep. Took me a whole ingame day to find.

Come on man! Use sound!

 

[IvorB]

Well I guess they want you to actually look for the items rather than walking the circle and hoping you hit it, but I agree it always seem to end up that way.

 

[disappeared]

I remember the good old days when NPCs would be like:

"It's to the forest in the north next to the rock shaped like the moon. Ware the Feral Rabbit monster that rests beneath its shade."

And then you'd go to the north and wander the forest to find the rock shaped liked the moon, and when you got there, you'd fight the feral rabbit monster that rested beneath its shade and get your item.

And also probably a lucky rabbits foot.

When graphics were simpler and lower resolutions only allowed for obvious landmarks. Now everything can be fully-rendered and highlighted to grab your attention.

 

[flaxknuckles]

Or...hear me out. They could design a unique world with interesting landmarks and you wouldn't need a circle to find something or a waypoint to know where to go. Instead of boring indistinguishable landmass repeated over and over for the sake of feeling like an adventure, or like a big game, or whatever the fuck bullet point they want.

This is why the "open" part of open world games is the worst thing ever to me. So fucking boring.

Yeah that's better but they won't do it. They know if they do it the Morrowind way a whole bunch of people will come in crying that they have kids and full time jobs therefore they cannot be bothered to waste time looking for stuff.

 

[Arttemis]

I remember the good old days when NPCs would be like:

"It's to the forest in the north next to the rock shaped like the moon. Ware the Feral Rabbit monster that rests beneath its shade."

And then you'd go to the north and wander the forest to find the rock shaped liked the moon, and when you got there, you'd fight the feral rabbit monster that rested beneath its shade and get your item.

And also probably a lucky rabbits foot.

This. I like compasses, not minimaps. I like crafted, geographical landmarks, not splotches on a corner of my screen. If players can't find what they're looking for that way, put the information in an actual full-screen map so players can receive assistance without their eyes being drawn away from the works that artists worked so hard to create. Empower those artists by drawing attention TO their work, not away from it.

Of course, that requires the game to contain those kind of minor landmarks, and not just copy-pasta textures filling in the space between a handful of only major landmarks.

 

[Zedark]

Yeah, right in the middle of one, and it spant and huge ass area (radius of .30 mile) in FFXV. Truly what you call an aggressive wasting of time.

 

[Chase17]

Asked to Find the amethyst for Dino in FFXV. Go to the circle. Look for ten minutes, constant battles. Get frustrated, look it up. It's just outside of the circle.

Get bent, SE.

Yeah I did the same thing. At least the frogs make a sound. I was running around that giant rock while enemy's kept spawning in form the sky for way too long.

 

[see5harp]

I find the open world dotted line bullshit to be so boring. Pretty much every game this day has you just following waypoints for 50 hours. There's little to no discovery or wonder anymore. Minor differences in gameplay or controls do little to make open feel different after a while.

 

[timshundo]

I'm done with quests in general. Gimme hallways yall.

 

[Timeaisis]

Yeah that's better but they won't do it. They know if they do it the Morrowind way a whole bunch of people will come in crying that they have kids and full time jobs therefore they cannot be bothered to waste time looking for stuff.

So running around in a circle for half an hour hunting for red frogs is not a waste of my time? Huh.

I get what you are saying, but this doesn't solve the problem you are presenting at all, it just packages it up differently and kills any player engagement that was left in rudimentary open world quest design.

 

[KarmaCow]

Yeah, I hate that shit. It's right next to "Kill 50 tigers", "gather 20 plants", and "bring back 30 of this particular monster drop that has a 5% droprate" in the holy shitpile of stupid MMO quests.

I actually like them in MMOs, or at least when it forces multiple people to compete for it since it fosters camaraderie. Though it's hard thing to tune because too little competition turns it into a mindless fetch quest like in single player games and too much is makes it frustrating to lose the item by a fraction of a second.

 

[Newtype-001]

Or...hear me out. They could design a unique world with interesting landmarks and you wouldn't need a circle to find something or a waypoint to know where to go. Instead of boring indistinguishable landmass repeated over and over for the sake of feeling like an adventure, or like a big game, or whatever the fuck bullet point they want.

This is why the "open" part of open world games is the worst thing ever to me. So fucking boring.

.

 

[Shifty1897]

...Maybe don't play FFXV anytime soon, bud.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I feel like something akin to Fable 2's "breadcrumb" trail is the way to go. By default it's always there guiding you to the major areas, but if you want you could crank it up for maximum hand-holding or turn it off completely (which was great and made replaying it so much better.)

In open-world games it really seems like an unnecessary crutch. The idea is you're making a unique and engrossing world, yeah? Then trust in your design and trust players to figure it out.

 

[ghibli99]

Doesn't really bother me (circles or exact spots) as long as the stuff surrounding the quests are interesting and make sense from a story/contextual point of view. That's where TW3 nails it in terms of telling either small or large narratives around the fetch/find quest system. FF15 struggles here, since many of the equivalent sidequests/tasks feel completely arbitrary, with them being a means toward an item/XP end.

 

[tuxfool]

Or...hear me out. They could design a unique world with interesting landmarks and you wouldn't need a circle to find something or a waypoint to know where to go. Instead of boring indistinguishable landmass repeated over and over for the sake of feeling like an adventure, or like a big game, or whatever the fuck bullet point they want.

This is why the "open" part of open world games is the worst thing ever to me. So fucking boring.

Except landmarks only take it so far. Then you have to search the area around a landmark.

If you have a detailed environment then it becomes even worse, you're basically asking people to search for a needle in a haystack.

 

[Lorcain]

Naw, I like this. It's a lot better than just mindlessly following a waypoint.

Running haphazardly around a mini-map circle, or running in concentric patterns like I do, is not any better than mindlessly following a waypoint. Both are bad. The circle search is one of the dumbest, and laziest, quest concepts out there right now.

I ran into my first FFXV circle search last night. Ugh.

 

[Timeaisis]

...Maybe don't play FFXV anytime soon, bud.

Too late. Reason I made the thread.

I feel like something akin to Fable 2's "breadcrumb" trail is the way to go. By default it's always there guiding you to the major areas, but if you want you could crank it up for maximum hand-holding or turn it off completely (which was great and made replaying it so much better.)

In open-world games it really seems like an unnecessary crutch. The idea is you're making a unique and engrossing world, yeah? Then trust in your design and trust players to figure it out.

I would actually really like a dynamic approach. Like, I can crank up the hand-holding when I get super frustrated ("just tell me where the fucking red frog is, dammit!") and turn it off when I want to be more immersed (vague location, etc.).

Running haphazardly around a mini-map circle, or running in concentric patterns like I do, is not any better than mindlessly following a waypoint. Both are bad. The circle search is one of the dumbest, and laziest, quest concepts out there right now.

I ran into my first FFXV circle search last night. Ugh.

Yup. I posit they are actually worse, because they are more time consuming and frustrating.

 

[More_Badass]

I knew it had to be Witcher 3 seeing that title. I'm currently 50 hours in and loving it, but I'm playing for the combat, story, and exploration/setting. The game's reliance on "follow the footsteps/scents/blood stains" in witcher sense or objectives like you mentioned is its biggest flaw so far

 

[Neoleo2143]

Except landmarks only take it so far. Then you have to search the area around a landmark.

Then create an environmental inconsistency in the specific spot. A circle of stones that has one out of place, a gathering of fire flies around a spot. You could say it's "too easy" but if the alternative is damning frustration that's more about luck then it's probably better design for conveying the intended emotion.

 

[Justinh]

Asked to Find the amethyst for Dino in FFXV. Go to the circle. Look for ten minutes, constant battles. Get frustrated, look it up. It's just outside of the circle.

Get bent, SE.

oh man, that sounds like it would've really pissed me off.

The landmarks idea when given a general direction or clue to the landmarks sounds like the most appealing to me, too. I don't know if most people would "put up" with (playing the game) figuring it out, though.

The game's reliance on "follow the footsteps/scents/blood stains" in witcher sense or objectives like you mentioned is its biggest flaw so far

Yeah, I get that since he's a witcher that he's like... tracking the monsters or whatever he's following with his mutated senses or whathaveyou, but sometimes it feels unnecessary. Like they could've done it another way. And it probably would be so bad if they made the "follow this path" more interesting somehow.

Still one of my favorite games forever-ever, though.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

My favorite are the ones in Assassin's Creed when they give you the circle and you just stand in the circle and hit your Assassin Vision button and it shows you where everything is. Why not just put it on my map then?

 

[Servbot24]

All "quests" are bad to be honest. I don't think I've ever enjoyed one.

 

[renzolama]

The FFXV variants are annoying the shit out of me already. The most frustrating aspect is that the developers seem to believe that the "looking for small hidden things" mechanic is really enjoyable for players, and they actively seek to hide the thing you're looking for to make it take longer. In at least some of the quest types there's no interface prompt or entity effect to help you notice when the thing you're looking for is in view or nearby, so you can literally walk 1m radius circles around something that blends in with the environment without noticing.

I'm finding that general gameplay mechanic (go find this thing with vague or non-existent directions) to be the most distasteful aspect of the game. There are other occasions where you need some item to progress a sidequest and upgrade your gear, and you're given absolutely no indicators of where the kind of item might be found. It turns out that they're randomly hidden at various places in the world and the only indication is a small glimmer that you would completely miss if you never happened to turn the camera in that direction. You can get away with this stuff in 2D/overhead RPGs because everything in the area is always visible to the player, but when you throw in narrow 3d camera frustrums it becomes an exercise in frustration extremely quickly. You need to provide players with some kind of breadcrumb trail or "enhanced sight" system at minimum if you want to play hide-and-seek in a game where finding small things is not meant to be the main gameplay mechanic. I didn't boot up a PS4 game in 2016 because I want to play Where's Waldo.

 

[More_Badass]

All "quests" are bad to be honest. I don't think I've ever enjoyed one.

In Witcher or in general? That seems like a big umbrella

 

[Sumio Mondo]

The "look in a giant circle on the map" quests are so damn prevalent nowadays that it's kinda ridiculous. Seems like every game I play now on home consoles (especially RPGs) has it.

 

[Neoleo2143]

All "quests" are bad to be honest. I don't think I've ever enjoyed one.

Considering that lumps things like Baldur's Gate 2 and Fallout New Vegas into that basket, I sincerely disagree.

 

[FarFromAnyGame]

The Witcher 3 is not bad at that, IIRC, the circle gets smaller as you get closer to the item.

But hey! Forza Horizon 3 lets you pay real money to not drive around in the circle and go straight to the item.

 

[Acquiescence]

A key reason why I'll never regard The Witcher 3 as a classic. The amount of emphasis placed on finding tiny red objects in big fields was maddening by the end. Zero fun doing that shit.