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[thumb]

Connor isn't even solemn, he's just around people who treat him like shit, marginalize and use him, and don't respect his culture, they had an entire side quest dedicated to showing his character around people who don't do that.


The writing isn't even terrible, her progression as a fearful college student interested in archaelogy who's forced to survive and fight for her life

to determined woman who actively seeks adventure, doesn't take shit from anybody and is genuinely interested in learning the world's secrets makes complete sense.

just based on her body language, tone, and expressions alone.

Agreed.

I like the new Lara Croft, and I think Camilla Luddington does a great job. One of the challenges with how they're portraying her is that her character arc is across games, not within them. So although she is changing, it is slow, and it is only most noticeable when one advances to the sequel.

 

[gow3isben]

Agreed 100%. Great game. My third favorite on PS4 after Uncharted and Witcher 3 but the main character is dull as hell. I didn't really care as much what happened to her because she seemed as disinterested as I was in her fate.

 

[xxracerxx]

Agreed.

I like the new Lara Croft, and I think Camilla Luddington does a great job. One of the challenges with how they're portraying her is that her character arc is across games, not within them. So although she is changing, it is slow, and it is only most noticeable when one advances to the sequel.

There was nothing slow about her progression in the first game...it was pedal to the metal right away and then they would let off the gas abruptly throughout the game at weird points where they thought they should make her docile again.

 

[Pilgrimzero]

They need to make her more of a thrill seeker instead of a Katniss ripoff.

 

[Lokimaru]

Old school Lara was an Adrenaline Junkie. She was a Mercenary Treasure Hunter not an Archaeologist. She did work for hire but also had fuck-you money, plus all of the shit she found ended up in her house not in a museum. That gave her more of a Devil may care attitude cause she gave NO fucks, she wasn't really in it for the money or the fame. Like she said "I only play for sport"

CD has always tried to give a reason for Lara to do what she does when she really didn't need one. First it was her Mother, now it's about her Dad. Old school Lara had been Disowned by her family. CD just likes adding Drama for Drama's sake.

Every crazy thing Lara does in the new games was to save herself in someway, Old school Lara did crazy shit just cause it was there. Second Lara still had that spark but this one not so much. The only positive is that This Lara still has room to grow into That Lara.

 

[thumb]

There was nothing slow about her progression in the first game...it was pedal to the metal right away and then they would let off the gas abruptly throughout the game at weird points where they thought they should make her docile again.

I'm not sure I agree. If you're talking about her turning brutal, the argument for her as a killer is that she always had that in her psychology. In game, she essentially states that she found killing surprisingly easy. She discovered her ability to handle it was already there. People have a hard time with this, and the game should have spent more time on it, but it is implicitly explained.

Also, when does she ever become "docile"?

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

She's almost as bad the new hero in Halo 5, don't even remember his name, I was just astounded by how generic that character was

 

[patapuf]

The first game had awful writing and voice direction.

So did the second (writing).

That was a weak ass story. The big baddies and their motivations were laughable, Jakobs stuff was weak and telegraphed from a mile away and i don't remember Lara having much character development or even a character moment worth anything.

CD seems to want to tell a decent story, but they have a long way to go, their characters are super weak as well. Lara aside, there's very little there. Maybe Sam. But i doubt we'll see her again.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

So did the second (writing).

That was a weak ass story. The big baddies and their motivations were laughable, Jakobs stuff was weak and telegraphed from a mile away and i don't remember Lara having much character development worth anything.

CD seems to want to tell a decent story, but they have a long way to go, their characters are super weak as well. Lara aside, there's very little there. Maybe Sam. But i doubt we'll see her again.

this is what happens when computer nerds are in charge of creative aspects of the game and not just the technical aspect

It's amazing how often we shit on movie writing as if it wasn't Shakespeare level of depth and dialogue we look down on it, but in video games, none of those scripts would even make the cut on the Syfy channel it's so bad

they need to outsource the story/character aspect of games to ACTUAL creatives

 

[jackdoe]

I wouldn't say that she's necessarily dull, as her character development across two games does have the potential for a well told and compelling story. Unfortunately, the story, the writing, and the supporting characters are so poorly done in both reboot Tomb Raider games that it squanders any potential that her character arc could have had.

 

[ebullientprism]

Just do something with her. Anything. Hell even a cliche will be a massive improvement over the non existent character she right now. Make her evil or stupid or charming or anything except what she is right now. Just blank.

Drink every time she says "I must..." "I've got to....", etc and you'll be off your face in no time.

Oh god. This. So fucking much.

 

[truly101]

Cloud is not an in-your-face asshole but Drake is? Drake is a horrible, evil psychotic character on the level of Kratos? Are you being purposely delusional?

Right, because the Uncharted games, up until the last one force you to kill countless mercs because that your only defined interaction with them, so Drake is a psycho. Also if you like Mario,you like genocide.

 

[Tosyn_88]

Chloe Frazer vs Lara Croft ??

 

[xxracerxx]

I'm not sure I agree. If you're talking about her turning brutal, the argument for her as a killer is that she always had that in her psychology. In game, she essentially states that she found killing surprisingly easy. She discovered her ability to handle it was already there. People have a hard time with this, and the game should have spent more time on it, but it is implicitly explained.

Also, when does she ever become "docile"?

Docile was the wrong term to use, but I feel like the writers would just her killer side of herself away and just revert back to the student Lara. The whole, always a part of her stuff was not communicated well if that is even what the writers were going for.

 

[RedRum]

Connor isn't even solemn, he's just around people who treat him like shit, marginalize and use him, and don't respect his culture, they had an entire side quest dedicated to showing his character around people who don't do that.


The writing isn't even terrible, her progression as a fearful college student interested in archaelogy who's forced to survive and fight for her life

to determined woman who actively seeks adventure, doesn't take shit from anybody and is genuinely interested in learning the world's secrets makes complete sense.

just based on her body language, tone, and expressions alone.

My thoughts on the matter. I like the build up. Classic Laura is what modern Laura will eventually become, and she is definitely getting there.

I also don't understand when people criticize her being a killer early on because she's put in those situations.

Look at the past and present in military life and you have young teenagers with little to no training (more so in the wars of old) trust into situations where they have to step up and kill or be killed.

 

[patapuf]

Just do something with her. Anything. Hell even a cliche will be a massive improvement over the non existent character she right now. Make her evil or stupid or charming or anything except what she is right now. Just blank.
.

Her being super serious can work, but you need a good support cast for that.

A recent game that had a really goofy premise but played it straight was Wolfenstein: the new order. Blaskoviz couldn't be a more generic protagonist but thanks to a really well written support cast he was likeable and you rooted for him. They also had villains you actively hated. It's not shakespear, but it works.

And if CD wants more nuance than that they'll need a much better story framework than they've had so far. The supervillain that wants to rule the world with an ancient artefact is not good enough for that.

 

[chillybright]

She is fine.

Just too much monologue.

 

[xxracerxx]

My thoughts on the matter. I like the build up. Classic Laura is what modern Laura will eventually become, and she is definitely getting there.

Who is Laura?

 

[Kyrios]

I thought the reboot was pretty dull in terms of characters. Liked the gameplay but a flat experience overall.

 

[patapuf]

My thoughts on the matter. I like the build up. Classic Laura is what modern Laura will eventually become, and she is definitely getting there.

I also don't understand when people criticize her being a killer early on because she's put in those situations.

Look at the past and present in military life and you have young teenagers with little to no training (more so in the wars of old) trust into situations where they have to step up and kill or be killed.

Thing is, we never see those character changes happen on screen and even when they do they are super quick. Also while we are told Lara is untrained, the story does not reflect that. She knows every survival skill in the book, can use a bow, hunt and is very adept with guns from moment 0 (even in cutscenes, not just in gameplay). She also shows no problems with killing beyond the tutorial. Her friends never show a reaction to suddenly having to kill at all. They just use weapons like they are soldiers.

It's a bit better in ROTR, but the surrounding plot and characters other than her are still pretty weak there.

 

[NeoRaider]

The hyperbole in this thread from some ppl... lol.
It's like we have perfectly written, flawless characters in games today. Compared to some games new Lara is not even bad and it's not like classic Lara is some kind of amazing character.

It's 2nd game in the reboot series and Lara is just becoming who she really is. Lara's character improved a lot in ROTTR compared to reboot from 2013. Give them time, i am sure that they will do better in Shadow of the Tomb Raider.

 

[RedRum]

Who is Laura?

Typing on my phone. Cut me some slack!

 

[Lokimaru]

Thing is, we never see those character changes happen on screen and even when they do they are super quick. Also while we are told Lara is untrained, the story does not reflect that. She knows every survival skill in the book, can use a bow, hunt and is very adept with guns from moment 0 (even in cutscenes, not just in gameplay). She also shows no problems with killing beyond the tutorial. Her friends never show a reaction to suddenly having to kill at all. They just use weapons like they are soldiers.

It's a bit better in ROTR, but the surrounding plot and characters other than her are still pretty weak there.

The story does not say that she is untrained, Roth clearly says he trained her in survival and weapons skills. Dude practically raised her since her own Father was obsessed with his work. That one of the problems Reyes has with Lara.

 

[sfried]

It's 2nd game in the reboot series and Lara is just becoming who she really is. Lara's character improved a lot in ROTTR compared to reboot from 2013. Give them time, i am sure that they will do better in Shadow of the Tomb Raider.

Wait...is that really the new name for the third installment of the series?

 

[Kralamoonard]

Not really. The presentation is better but they certainly aren't more believable.

I dunno man, I mean no disrespect, but I genuinely can't agree with your assessment about them and the writing/acting/characterisation in the modern TR games. I just found them mediocre at best -- honestly don't mean to come across as prickish, but I just can't see eye to eye :/

 

[IvorB]

Since TR2013 came out, I've seen people groaning and complaining about the new Tomb Raider. They say Camilla Luddington is a bad actress, they say the games are poorly written, they say they're generic third-person shooters, they say Lara has no personality, they say Lara is weak, and so on and so on.

And the only conclusion I can come to is that people who feel this way are from a different universe than me. I am in Earth A, where the new Tomb Raider games are the platinum standard for modern action adventure games, and people like you must be on Earth B, where where the new Tomb Raider is bad.

After three years of engaging in this debate, fielding criticisms and offering my own insights, the only truly logical possibility is this. You are simply from a wholly different reality than the one I live in. NeoGAF is piece of glass between our two planes of existence and we can peer just beyond it to see how the other dimension feels about Tomb Raider, but that is all.

Really makes you think. Greetings from Earth A. I wonder what else is different?

Ha ha!! Is this a new meme I missed?

 

[Demoskinos]

So disagree. I loved both Tomb Raider reboot games SO MUCH. Way more than Uncharted. I'll agree the supporting casts on both games are kind of weak but I think Lara herself is better than ever. I finished RotTR last night and am really eager to dive into whatever they have planned for the 3rd game.

Shoulda kept Sam in the series, the romantic symbolism was the best part of the first game.

Well there are *reasons* why sam isn't in RotTR. Basically in the Dark Horse Comics after the first game

Spoiler

Sam eventually gets possessed by the spirit of Himiko gets put in an insane asylum and then eventually murders some of the staff and escapes and is currently at large.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Yes I agree. Zero charisma and personality.

Lara, if she was a new character today simply wouldn't stand out and is painfully generic.

 

[- J - D -]

I don't mind NuLara, but I don't like the actress who plays her. Very breathy, her performance. Barely a few gasps and groans short of anime dub tier VO work.

 

[Demoskinos]

Connor isn't even solemn, he's just around people who treat him like shit, marginalize and use him, and don't respect his culture, they had an entire side quest dedicated to showing his character around people who don't do that.


The writing isn't even terrible, her progression as a fearful college student interested in archaelogy who's forced to survive and fight for her life

to determined woman who actively seeks adventure, doesn't take shit from anybody and is genuinely interested in learning the world's secrets makes complete sense.

just based on her body language, tone, and expressions alone.

Oh god. Lara just fed up with everyone's shit so early on in RoTT its great. Felt like a total bad-ass the entire game just destroying fools.

 

[Jennipeg]

The hyperbole in this thread from some ppl... lol.
It's like we have perfectly written, flawless characters in games today. Compared to some games new Lara is not even bad and it's not like classic Lara is some kind of amazing character.

It's 2nd game in the reboot series and Lara is just becoming who she really is. Lara's character improved a lot in ROTTR compared to reboot from 2013. Give them time, i am sure that they will do better in Shadow of the Tomb Raider.

I like her character far less in the 2nd game. It's like they wanted to tell her origin story again, she has not progressed as a character at all from the end of the 1st game.

All of her development happened within that one game, and now she just is. Her motivations make no sense, her plan is total rubbish. She ignores the one person to point this out to her, and brushes it off with 'I must...' 'I have to.....' er no you don't Lara.

I really don't care that she is killing mercenaries etc in the gameplay, it's a game. My issue is that she

Spoiler

shot Anna point blank

in a cutscene, nothing in her character development shows her capable of that. The story certainly didn't earn that moment.

She is just dull and badly written, I liked her in the first one, and I am so so dissapointed with how they are treading water with her character now.

While all this seems hyperbolic it is the only way I can express my severe disappointment. Give me Chloe with an English accent any day.

 

[Bishop89]

i havent played the latest one, but she was definitely dull and boring in the 2013 game

 

[Jennipeg]

The writing isn't even terrible, her progression as a fearful college student interested in archaelogy who's forced to survive and fight for her life

to determined woman who actively seeks adventure, doesn't take shit from anybody and is genuinely interested in learning the world's secrets makes complete sense.

just based on her body language, tone, and expressions alone.

She specifically says at the beginning of the 1st game that she is looking for adventure, that's how she ended up in that mess. It was her own theories that took them all there. In the 2nd game she isn't exactly looking for adventure she is out to redeem her father. The only difference in her as a character, is that she can now murder people without crying about it.

 

[RedSwirl]

In TR2013 it seemed like Lara had some semblance of a character arc. The origin story thing made sense despite the survivor angle being a mistake in my opinion.

You'd expect ROTR to show off a more confident and capable Lara, maybe one more comfortable in her situation, but from what I saw (I just YouTubed the whole game) Crystal Dynamics didn't go far enough. She's still gasping and screaming all the time. Like other people said in the thread, I sort of expected her to slowly turn into the adrenaline junkie she was in the older games, maybe even go through a character arc where she's coming to terms with that. Instead they just made Lara super serious all the time.

I guess my overall problem with new Tomb Raider is that it's too relentlessly dark. There's no levity, which makes new Lara feel less human. All the shooting and killing that comes with a generic third person shooter like this then makes Lara seem even more psychotic. Nate kills a thousand dudes in each Uncharted game but his well-written wise-cracking and the franchise's T-rated tone makes all that action look a lot less gratuitous than it looks in reboot Tomb Raider. That's the other thing: CD shouldn't have gone with a hard M-rating.

 

[Mik317]

IMO some one in her line of work would probably be an eccentric person, no? I wished they go for that instead of bland every women...because lets be real, not many people can pull off some of the shit you must do in these games. If you are going to go for pseudo-realism then do it. It would make for a more interesting character and one that fits the gameplay.

 

[III-V]

Could they have written any less personality into this character? What a crushing bore this character has become. One facial expression, one tone, the same monotonous dialogue over and over. Combine that with a somewhat bizarre urge to throw herself into incredibly dangerous situations without any thought - a borderline psychopath with the most paper thin motivations for everything. The half a dozen polygons of classic Lara gave off a more varied set of emotions than the one we have now. I'm not sure I've cared any less for a protagonist and their motivations than I have for new Lara.

How on earth was old Laura and better fleshed out than new Laura? This is total confusion. Not to mention the movies. I love the franchise, always have bit this is not TLOU. She is approximately UC3 levels at best.

 

[KonradLaw]

What made her weak for me was that she was bassicaly put in the exact same situation as Jason Brody in Far Cry 3. Only that she remained dull, while Brody turned into pure insane delight of protagonist.

 

[Orochinagis]

Drink every time she says "I must..." "I've got to....", etc and you'll be off your face in no time.

Like you are actually Lara and she is a bot who moans and scream with no control of her actions like Red when twitch played Pokemon

 

[Shredderi]

What made her weak for me was that she was bassicaly put in the exact same situation as Jason Brody in Far Cry 3. Only that she remained dull, while Brody turned into pure insane delight of protagonist.

Yeah. Brody is a shitty written character but I had a lot more fun playing as him. If only Lara just owned some of the messed up ways she executed some of her enemies it would have made her a lot more interesting.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

The writing in general is terrible and yes she is very boring. I guess Crystal Dynamics doesn't think so because they didn't really improve the writing or characterization in the second game.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Yeah, I like the reboot games, but she's a pretty boring character. And the other characters and the plot of the new games are totally forgettable too.

 

[Earthanoid]

I don't have a problem with her characterization, per se, but it's inconsistent in the context of the game and the story. There are too many "she's weakened and in trouble moments" in the cutscenes, followed by gameplay of her brutally shooting people in the face and hacking them to bits with her climbing axe. Then there are the story moments of "I've got to get to this place immediately or some horrible thing will happen!" followed immediately by "I'm going to thoroughly explore this cave and go hunt deer first."

The main issue I have is that she goes from moody and brooding to... slightly more moody and brooding?

The reboot games are fun even though they have issues though.

 

[Grisby]

Really curious to see what her model looks like for 3. Some damn impressive stuff.

 

[wenaldy]

Loved ROTR disagree with this. Not sure what people are looking for. Glad she was not corny like Drake. Glad she was not over the top like Tess.

Horrible character from Last of us.

You got a beef with ND? Drake has better characterization and interaction than boring Laura.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I think the problem is the different expectations that certain tones set for a piece of media.

With something that's a piece of pulpy action entertainment, I don't think most people are expecting the most well-written drama or unique plotlines. I think what most people are looking for is something that has an energy to it, which is usually sustained by quippy, "fun" characters. That's kind of the Marvel/Uncharted 1-3 side of media. Your piece of media embraces the general ridiculousness of superheroes, or treasure hunting or globe-trotting and just goes for a kind of "fun" angle with a few "human elements" sprinkled in.

On the other hand once you start to take yourself seriously, whether fair to not, I think that expectations grow. This gets you more to a DC/Tomb Raider 2013 issue of characterization. You're taking this really fantastic concepts, say superheroes or some kind of Japanese mysticism/ritualism, and you want an audience to take it seriously? That's asking a lot, and it needs to be anchored by even better narrative writing to earn that belief. Tomb Raider in particular did very little to earn my interest in Lara, in the characters around her, or in the world they created. It's almost tirelessly dark and brooding, but without any substantial character drama or charisma to carry you through the darkness.

 

[BigEmil]

Drink every time she says "I must..." "I've got to....", etc and you'll be off your face in no time.

Lots of unecessary moaning sounds too

 

[newtypepilot]

afraid to kill a single animal
goes on multiple mass killing sprees against humans and even taunts them

that's the new Lara pretty much.

 

[AgentOtaku]

I think the problem is the different expectations that certain tones set for a piece of media.

With something that's a piece of pulpy action entertainment, I don't think most people are expecting the most well-written drama or unique plotlines. I think what most people are looking for is something that has an energy to it, which is usually sustained by quippy, "fun" characters. That's kind of the Marvel/Uncharted 1-3 side of media. Your piece of media embraces the general ridiculousness of superheroes, or treasure hunting or globe-trotting and just goes for a kind of "fun" angle with a few "human elements" sprinkled in.

On the other hand once you start to take yourself seriously, whether fair to not, I think that expectations grow. This gets you more to a DC/Tomb Raider 2013 issue of characterization. You're taking this really fantastic concepts, say superheroes or some kind of Japanese mysticism/ritualism, and you want an audience to take it seriously? That's asking a lot, and it needs to be anchored by even better narrative writing to earn that belief. Tomb Raider in particular did very little to earn my interest in Lara, in the characters around her, or in the world they created. It's almost tirelessly dark and brooding, but without any substantial character drama or charisma to carry you through the darkness.

well said

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Lara has always been bland. People just didn't notice before cause Giant Triangle Boobs.

 

[Vlaphor]

Have you ever been somewhere with a group and someone in that group really doesn't want to be there and not only complains constantly but also tries to drag down the experience for everyone else as a childish method of revenge? That's Lara from ROTR. She has no personality or character arc in this game. She may have had a misguided and poorly-handled character arc in the previous TR game, but at least she was a character. In ROTR, she's just a middle-finger pointed at the player the entire time. Like I said previously, this is the only game I've ever played where the protagonist was so terrible that I was skipping cutscenes after awhile, just because of how much I couldn't stand her.