Support NeoGAF

[Phantom Liber]

I'm almost certainly late on this but I'm rewatching ESB and the dude in the snow speeder who finds Han and Luke is code named Rouge Two.

That's Rogue Two, Rebel Scum. You demean the sacrifice of our worthy Rogue One opponents through your typo which would imply they are Red Two.

Moving on...I enjoyed the film once the band was together and I'll admit it was powerful watching the squad torn apart one bit at a time yet still plowing on determined to the end. I also appreciated the nods I saw to ESB and New Hope in the Scarif Data Tower chase scene.

Consequently, I got more immersed in these characters than I did in the cast of Force Awakens and regret that Disney had but one movie to give us for this part of the continuity (so far).

 

[Vidiot]

Lol, fixed it. Damn swipe.

 

[Rydeen]

Edit: Oh they're all code named Rouge something. Leader, two, and three so far. Still fun to pretend they took the names to honor those in Rogue One.

Yeah Rogue Squadron was formed after the Battle of Yavin. Luke was Rogue Leader until after the the Battle of Hoth, afterwards Wedge became Rogue Leader.

 

[jb1234]

His Pixar work is incredible. Up and Inside Out are the highlights. I agree his live action isn't always on par, but I saw Rogue One a second time today and the music stood out a lot more to me this time.

I generally like Giacchino but I've felt for a while now that his best work lies outside the blockbuster realm. Ratatouille, Up, Inside Out, The Incredibles, Lost, his early video game scores...

He's done good work in scores like Rogue One, the Star Treks, Jurassic World, Jupiter Ascending and so on but they also expose his weaknesses, especially in thematic development. But since until recently, this type of movie was often given to Zimmer (or worse, his cronies), I'm more than happy for Giacchino to tackle them.

 

[Rydeen]

But since until recently, this type of movie was often given to Zimmer (or worse, his cronies), I'm more than happy for Giacchino to tackle them.

I am so tired of Zimmer it's ridiculous. Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri, Howard Shore and Harry Gregson-Williams are still around and yet Hans Zimmer (or his studio being billed as him) were getting literally every blockbuster film for a few summers, it was ridiculous.

 

[jb1234]

I am so tired of Zimmer it's ridiculous. Danny Elfman, Alan Silvestri, James Horner and Harry Gregson-Williams are still around and yet Hans Zimmer (or his studio being billed as him) were getting literally every blockbuster film for a few summers, it was ridiculous.

Horner's dead, bro.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

I wasn't a huge fan of the movie, but Giacchino's score was great. Better than the Doctor Strange OST and even better than the TFA OST for my money ¯|_(&#12484_|¯

 

[Rydeen]

Horner's dead, bro.

Gah I know that, I had a brain-fart. I meant Howard Shore.

 

[jb1234]

Gah I know that, I had a brain-fart. I meant Howard Shore.

I'd love to hear more Shore in blockbuster films. And John Powell (although he's largely been taking a self-imposed break).

 

[Adam_Vania]

finally saw this. it was great. i bitch about them re-using scenes and doing the Death Star yet again but once you get past all that it's quite a good film.

it did confuse me a little about Vader's role. what was he doing on that planet? and why did that guy meet with him? isn't he too big a deal to meet with this director joker? then again there has always been something off about his role, the Imperials made fun of Vader in ANH, his original role as Imperial flunkie is in conflict with his retconned role as Space Jesus. guess i have to pay Disney to find out whenever they release the Darth Vader standalone.

i wonder if he knew those guys had the plans, why he didn't just force telekinesis them to him? why just slaughter these guys while the plans get away? you can say that deep down that's the good side of the force, letting him let those plans get away. but in that case the force just willed the murder of a whole bunch of dudes so i guess fuck the force?

 

[Toxi]

it did confuse me a little about Vader's role. what was he doing on that planet?

Vader was meditating/relaxing while off-work. He was in a bacta healing tank, presumably to sooth his wounds.

The planet was Mustafar, the same planet he was dismembered and burned on.

i wonder if he knew those guys had the plans, why he didn't just force telekinesis them to him? why just slaughter these guys while the plans get away? you can say that deep down that's the good side of the force, letting him let those plans get away. but in that case the force just willed the murder of a whole bunch of dudes so i guess fuck the force?

I don't think Vader actually saw the tape at first. He was just killing all the Rebels in his path.

But I need to rewatch the movie, because maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Rydeen]

it did confuse me a little about Vader's role. what was he doing on that planet? and why did that guy meet with him? isn't he too big a deal to meet with this director joker? then again there has always been something off about his role, the Imperials made fun of Vader in ANH, his original role as Imperial flunkie is in conflict with his retconned role as Space Jesus. guess i have to pay Disney to find out whenever they release the Darth Vader standalone.

Everything you need to know about Vader is explained in the prequels and Original Trilogy. Vader is second only to the Emperor in the Empire, and has no official rank, this is why the Imperial military commanders and governors dislike Vader, as they see him as not following the rules and order that they follow in terms of military and political power. Vader also detests the organized military of the Imperial ranks, and dislikes politicos even more.

This is why character like Krennic, Admiral Motti in A New Hope, and Admiral Ozzil in Empire Strikes Back are seen as butting heads with Vader and usually being on the short end of that stick.

 

[Dalek]

Saw it today for the first time and I absolutely loved it. I loved every moment of it-but I had my expectations lowered by my brother in law who claimed the entire first two acts were boring. I loved the characters and the world building-and the look of the film-so I was never bored for a second.

Amazing third act.

 

[CloudyTuba]

There's something that's been lingering in the back of my mind that I don't fully understand. Really fucking nitpicky and ultimately unimportant, but still a little puzzling. Vaguely the conversation in the movie went something like this:

-Oh no, theyve closed the shield gate! Now we're trapped!
-Well, we could transmit the plans to the rebel fleet instead! But we'd have to signal them that it's coming.
-Someone has to take the shield gate down to transmit!

So, they came up with an alternate plan because the shield gate was closed, but their new plan relies on the shield gate being open. I half expected the next line to be "Oh, really? Nevermind then, back to plan A."

I mean, I know sending the plans straight to a capital ship was for the best anyway considering the hot battlezone but I'm not really following the logic of that particular conversation there. Probably more of a clarity problem than an actual logic problem.

finally saw this. it was great. i bitch about them re-using scenes and doing the Death Star yet again but once you get past all that it's quite a good film.

it did confuse me a little about Vader's role. what was he doing on that planet? and why did that guy meet with him? isn't he too big a deal to meet with this director joker? then again there has always been something off about his role, the Imperials made fun of Vader in ANH, his original role as Imperial flunkie is in conflict with his retconned role as Space Jesus. guess i have to pay Disney to find out whenever they release the Darth Vader standalone.

i wonder if he knew those guys had the plans, why he didn't just force telekinesis them to him? why just slaughter these guys while the plans get away? you can say that deep down that's the good side of the force, letting him let those plans get away. but in that case the force just willed the murder of a whole bunch of dudes so i guess fuck the force?

Krennic, as shown in multiple scenes of the movie, was very concerned with someone telling the Emperor that he was hot stuff. He wanted to get on the good side of the big boss man.
He tried Tarkin first but that went to shit so then he went to Vader. That also didn't go so well. He was just desperate for Shiggity Sheev's attention and was trying to use high ranking people who had direct contact with him.
This is why Vader shanked him while scolding him about his aspirations.

As for why Vader didn't get the plans right away, there were a lot of people shooting at him at the same time. He was probably concerned with not getting shot 23 times. You might have a little trouble staying on task too if you were in a room full of angry people with guns. Hard to keep track of which one has the floppy disk.

 

[jstevenson]

There's something that's been lingering in the back of my mind that I don't fully understand. Really fucking nitpicky and ultimately unimportant, but still a little puzzling. Vaguely the conversation in the movie went something like this:

-Oh no, theyve closed the shield gate! Now we're trapped!
-Well, we could transmit the plans to the rebel fleet instead! But we'd have to signal them that it's coming.
-Someone has to take the shield gate down to transmit!

So, they came up with an alternate plan because the shield gate was closed, but their new plan relies on the shield gate being open. I half expected the next line to be "Oh, really? Nevermind then, back to plan A."

I mean, I know sending the plans straight to a capital ship was for the best anyway considering the hot battlezone but I'm not really following the logic of that particular conversation there. Probably more of a clarity problem than an actual logic problem.



Krennic, as shown in multiple scenes of the movie, was very concerned with someone telling the Emperor that he was hot stuff. He wanted to get on the good side of the big boss man.
He tried Tarkin first but that went to shit so then he went to Vader. That also didn't go so well. He was just desperate for Shiggity Sheev's attention and was trying to use high ranking people who had direct contact with him.
This is why Vader shanked him while scolding him about his aspirations.

As for why Vader didn't get the plans right away, there were a lot of people shooting at him at the same time. He was probably concerned with not getting shot 23 times. You might have a little trouble staying on task too if you were in a room full of angry people with guns. Hard to keep track of which one has the floppy disk.

If you read the Catalyst book, Krennic and Tarkin have been jockeying prior. In fact, Krennic basically sends Tarkin on this wild goose chase and gets him bogged down for a while so he can work on the project without Tarkin interfering.

So when Tarkin is back, it's with full knowledge of Krennic's treachery and he's outmaneuvering him the whole time

 

[Deadly]

Just saw it today. The beginning was really sloooow. I only thought it got real interesting after Jedha blew up. I'm definitely torn on the music. Some of it was good but some tracks weren't so great. Can't say it'll be very memorable down the line.

Those scenes with K-2SO at the end though It's like you knew it was coming but after a few scenes he was still alive and then bam.

Vader scene at the end was definitely amazing. Although there definitely seemed something strange about the suit. Something about the cape and where it was attached or something.

 

[kubus]

I saw the movie for the first time last Friday and I went again yesterday. I had no expectations whatsoever, I didn't even know what the movie was about except that is is a spin-off that is supposed to be a little grittier than the other films and it is a prequel (but I didn't know where it fit in the timeline).

I left the cinema with my mouth wide open, absolutely blown away by what I just saw. I have to say the first 30 minutes/hour I really wasn't feeling it and it's been a few years since I saw the original trilogy (and I only saw TFA once when it was in theatres) so I was really confused about some things. Like, I was even struggling with whether the rebels and the alliance are the same thing (I'm not a huge fan of Star Wars if you can't already tell , though I love the films).

The second half of the movie (probably after Jedha) was just so good! It kept me on the edge of my seat all the time, and the finale... I didn't know if everyone was gonna die or not, but I faintly remembered that it was mentioned in earlier films that everyone died during this mission. So when the characters started dying one by one I felt this huge sense of dread . I actually really appreciated the sorta romantic tension between Cassian and Jyn but I am really glad they didn't kiss or whatever. To me they were two characters who finally started to understood they were very much alike when they already knew they weren't gonna live for more than 5 minutes. Very tragic. I think the novelization describes it beautifully: "He hadn’t known her, didn’t know her, of course. There wasn’t the time." It almost makes me want to see the supposed "alternate ending" where everybody lives .

Anyway I think I'm gonna rank this as my favorite Star Wars movie. I liked TFA too but it was just as a "Cool, they tried making a new Star Wars movie and it worked!" kinda thing while Rogue One is a "Holy crap I didn't know I needed this movie this much until I finally saw it" kinda thing.

 

[SpaceWolf]

There's something that's been lingering in the back of my mind that I don't fully understand. Really fucking nitpicky and ultimately unimportant, but still a little puzzling. Vaguely the conversation in the movie went something like this:

-Oh no, theyve closed the shield gate! Now we're trapped!
-Well, we could transmit the plans to the rebel fleet instead! But we'd have to signal them that it's coming.
-Someone has to take the shield gate down to transmit!

So, they came up with an alternate plan because the shield gate was closed, but their new plan relies on the shield gate being open. I half expected the next line to be "Oh, really? Nevermind then, back to plan A."

I mean, I know sending the plans straight to a capital ship was for the best anyway considering the hot battlezone but I'm not really following the logic of that particular conversation there. Probably more of a clarity problem than an actual logic problem.

Plan A involved escaping the planet via their ship...which they couldn't manage to achieve because the shields were up. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

Excellent film all round except I felt the wannabe Han Solo was completely pointless.

I'm not sure which character this is supposed to refer to.

 

[Waldini]

The thing that keeps popping is ... why didn't the Rebel Fleet sent someone down to the surface of Scarif once the Shield went down?

They could've picked up Jyn and Cassian? Although I've got a feeling that ... with the deleted scene(s) of her and Cassian running down the beach, that would've actually happened.

 

[SpaceWolf]

The thing that keeps popping is ... why didn't the Rebel Fleet sent someone down to the surface of Scarif once the Shield went down?

There wasn't nearly enough time. The base was destroyed barely a couple of minutes after the shield went down, and at that point the rebels had no means of communicating with Jyn and Cassian to work out where they were in the event of a pick-up.

 

[andythinkpad]

There wasn't nearly enough time. The base was destroyed barely a couple of minutes after the shield went down, and at that point the rebels had no means of communicating with Jyn and Cassian to work out where they were in the event of a pick-up.

It has nothing to do with time. Star War is cheese ass sci-fi opera. The leads got killed because the movie producers wanted to kill them. I am indifferent to their fates but they couldn't get a decent romantic subplot out of the script is very poor storytelling.

 

[SpaceWolf]

It has nothing to do with time. Star War is cheese ass sci-fi opera. The leads got killed because the movie producers wanted to kill them. I am indifferent to their fates but they couldn't get a decent romantic subplot out of the script is very poor storytelling.

Uh...

If you're going to nit-pick a particular story element, don't dismiss the perfectly logical explanation just because you wanted the story to turn out a different way.

Also, don't lambast the writers for "very poor storytelling" just because they didn't indulge you with a generic romance which would have made the film that much more bland and predictable. Male and female characters can interact on screen platonic without any kind of need for the writers to shoe-horn in a "romantic suplot" to please a certain subset of the audience.

 

[Symphonic]

Giacchino is a hack. He's JJ's buddy but has delivered nothing memorable of note having written scores now for Star Wars, Planet of the Apes, Jurassic World...He's not even capable of holding Williams water. Does nothing but write in little fragments. No themes.

Compare this score to Joel McNeely's awesome Shadows of the Empire and it's like listening to Beethoven's 9th. Giacchino doesn't deliver on any of the golden assignments he lands, but he keeps getting work because of his connections. Certainly not his talent.

He's been disappointing the past year or 2 but lol. Rogue One is debatably his most theme-y score of all time.

The bolded is especially nuts. You've gotta get some perspective.

 

[CloudyTuba]

Plan A involved escaping the planet via their ship...which they couldn't manage to achieve because the shields were up. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?

That's the point. Plan A involved escaping the planet via ship. Plan A required the shield gate to be open. Plan A was stated to be no longer viable because the shield gate closed.
In response, they formulated Plan B, which...also required the shield gate to be open and also was not possible because the shield gate was closed. Plan B did not solve their problem at all. It was just different.

The thing that keeps popping is ... why didn't the Rebel Fleet sent someone down to the surface of Scarif once the Shield went down?

They could've picked up Jyn and Cassian? Although I've got a feeling that ... with the deleted scene(s) of her and Cassian running down the beach, that would've actually happened.

This is related to the question I was previously asking above.

The Battlefront game includes a section of running on the beach with the plans with the goal of taking them to a landed U-Wing. In the next phase, the Walkers attempt to stop the U-Wing from escaping. If the rebels fail, the U-Wing is destroyed. Since trailers depict scenes like these that were not in the movie, I believe that the DLC was developed based on an older edit of the movie before the changes were made to the last act.

I'm guessing that in the original version, the reason why they have to transmit the plans (Plan B) is because their ride and any possible alternatives were destroyed by Walkers and they can't get off the surface regardless of whether the shield gate is open or not.

 

[SpaceWolf]

That's the point. Plan A involved escaping the planet via ship. Plan A required the shield gate to be open. Plan A was stated to be no longer viable because the shield gate closed.
In response, they formulated Plan B, which...also required the shield gate to be open and also was not possible because the shield gate was closed. Plan B did not solve their problem at all. It was just different.

They moved to Plan B because they would never have been able to get to their ship after the Stormtroopers swarmed on their position in addition to their ship blowing up and their pilot dying in spectacular fashion. At that point, it was physically impossible for them to hand the plans to the Rebels in person, so they had to settle for uploading the plans to the rebels instead.

 

[CloudyTuba]

They moved to Plan B because they would never have been able to get to their ship after the Stormtroopers swarmed on their position in addition to their ship blowing up and their pilot dying in spectacular fashion.

But the reason why stormtroopers were swarming all over their position was because of the bombs they planted across the base as a distraction, which was part of Plan A in which they escape in a ship. And Bodhi only blew up after they had already formulated Plan B, so it was not formed in response to his loss. Remember that he helped them get the message out for Plan B.

You put the series of events in the order you mentioned and things make sense, but that's not the order they actually happened in, right? They still had Bodhi when they formed plan B and the raucous around the base was an intentional part of plan A.

 

[SpaceWolf]

But the reason why stormtroopers were swarming all over their position was because of the bombs they planted across the base as a distraction, which was part of Plan A. And Bodhi only blew up after they had already formulated Plan B. Remember that he helped them get the message out for Plan B.

You put the series of events in that order and things make sense, but that's not the order they actually happened in, right?

The Stormtroopers weren't swarming over their position because of the bombs. The bombs were supposed to, and did have, the opposite effect. It drew the vast majority of the Imperial Forces away from the base so they could engage the Rebel Assault Team outside.

It played out like this...

The Rebels begin to enact Plan A, Jyn, Cassian begin to sneak into base whilst the assault team get into position while planting bombs around the facility outside, creeping as far as they can go into the base without being detected, Cassian orders the assault team to blow up bombs and to generally cause chaos to lure the Stormtrooper Guards away from the Data Room so they can engage the assault team. Bombs blow up, much like as predicted, the strom-troopers are drawn away from the Data Room. Cassian and Jyn seize the opportunity to sneak into said Data Room.

Plan A is going to plan. However, some random stromtroopers stumble upon the Data Room and realize there's been a breach. Realizing that they're not going to be able to escape from the base alive whilst surrounded by so many stormtroopers as they begin to converge on their position, Cassian and Jyn decide to switch to Plan B, which will not require them to leave the base alive whilst still getting the opportunity to send the Rebels the Death Star plans.

That's how I remember the order of events playing out. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Plan B is only possible because there are Rebel fleets in orbit, which they didn't actually anticipate to come. Plan A is a very long shot to begin with, and at the time the chance of Jyn and Cassian getting safely to shuttle grows ever slimmer. They switch to Plan B because it has the higher chance of succeeding.

 

[Won]

I'm pretty sure the idea was that there is neither a Plan A nor a Plan B. Surviving the whole thing was never on the agenda.

 

[SpaceWolf]

I'm pretty sure the idea was that there is neither a Plan A nor a Plan B. Surviving the whole thing was never on the agenda.

They had the pilot standing by with the ship to get them the hell out of there. To succeed, Plan A involved at least one of them surviving so they could hand the plans over to the rebels in person.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I'm pretty sure the idea was that there is neither a Plan A nor a Plan B. Surviving the whole thing was never on the agenda.

What do they want to do with the data they stole, then? I mean, I get that they all think it's a suicide mission with little to nil chance of survival, but are they just planning to play catch with the data drive or something?

 

[Ban Puncher]

Saw it today.

Could of done without the C3PO & R2D2 cameo, the cantina thugs from ANH cameo, the AT-ATs and AT-STs everywhere in out of place environments and a bunch of other shoe-horned in "HEY JUST WANTED TO REMIND YOU YOU ARE WATCHING A STAR WARS FILM" stuff.

The blue milk at the beginning did make me laugh because of how front and centre it was in that scene.

It was kinda neat how they had the stones to off everyone by the end but the characters all being kinda grey and dull meant I didn't really give a shit when they died. I cannot remember most of their names. I don't think kids will be bugging their parents for Rogue One figurines.

Studio suits meddled too much.

Better than the prequels as a movie on it's own but I hope that any future 'outside of the main titles' spin-offs are more original and less relying on old shit.

Oh wait the next film is about a young Han Solo?

 

[SpaceWolf]

....huh.

What scene is this from?

 

[Cheebo]

....huh.

What scene is this from?

When Han is talking with Luke and Obi-Wan

 

[Veritigo_X]

the AT-ATs and AT-STs everywhere in out of place environments

Agree with some of the cameos you mentioned (cantina guys ugh), but these are all terrain vehicles that are meant to be versatile. Where did we see them out of place?

 

[-griffy-]

All that heinous studio suit meddling, like Gareth Edwards and Gary Whitta writing the first draft of the movie so the team survives and Kathy Kennedy going "Nah, kill em all."

 

[WonkyPanda]

Is there a reason the imperials didn't just blow the Mon Cal ship out of the galaxy? Why did they have to board it?

Not that I'm complaining because we got that sweet, sweet Vader.

 

[iosefe]

All that heinous studio suit meddling, like Gareth Edwards and Gary Whitta writing the first draft of the movie so the team survives and Kathy Kennedy going "Nah, kill em all."

bruh.

they wanted to kill them all, but played it safe, then got the OK to kill them all

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Agree with some of the cameos you mentioned (cantina guys ugh), but these are all terrain vehicles that are meant to be versatile. Where did we see them out of place?

LOL, those AT-STs sure as hell weren't designed for Endor.

 

[OldRoutes]

Is there a reason the imperials didn't just blow the Mon Cal ship out of the galaxy? Why did they have to board it?

Not that I'm complaining because we got that sweet, sweet Vader.

The Empire doesn't know what the weakness is, at this point. If they have a good chance to capture the plans and get the answer, I guess it'd be worth it to take it.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

The Empire doesn't know what the weakness is, at this point. If they have a good chance to capture the plans and get the answer, I guess it'd be worth it to take it.

Yup, the original was destroyed on Scarif so the Empire needed/wanted them.

 

[aspaceman55]

[]

 

[Astral Dog]

So the Empire knew all this time there was a very small weakness on the Death Star !? :O

 

[Won]

What do they want to do with the data they stole, then? I mean, I get that they all think it's a suicide mission with little to nil chance of survival, but are they just planning to play catch with the data drive or something?

Maybe? I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure that Jyn gave the whole "changes" speech. They were solving one problem at a time and the situation funneled them into the transmission solution.

I just feel people here put more thought into it than the characters in the movie.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Is there a reason the imperials didn't just blow the Mon Cal ship out of the galaxy? Why did they have to board it?

Not that I'm complaining because we got that sweet, sweet Vader.

It might've had something to do with the Death Star plans on board, but besides that if the ship is already disabled they might as well board it and take some prisoners to get info on the rebellion. It's not like they're going anywhere.

A better question is how Leia's ship even escaped in the first place. You'd think they'd have star destroyers looking out for people trying to escape.

So the Empire knew all this time there was a very small weakness on the Death Star !? :O

This is sort of said in ANH. One of the officers mentions to Tarkin how they've analyzed the rebel's attack and realized there was a chance shit could go bad.

 

[SpaceWolf]

So the Empire knew all this time there was a very small weakness on the Death Star !? :O

No, they didn't. Galen explicitly mentioned that no-one in the Empire has any idea and he alone knew of the weakness and how it could be exploited.

 

[SpaceWolf]

When Han is talking with Luke and Obi-Wan

In the Cantina? I really don't remember that moment.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Maybe? I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure that Jyn gave the whole "changes" speech. They were solving one problem at a time and the situation funneled them into the transmission solution.

I just feel people here put more thought into it than the characters in the movie.

I'm not saying that they have meticulously prepared a highly coordinated scheme, but that doesn't mean they don't have any plan at all. "Get the data disk onto the shuttle and fly off somehow" is still a plan. That's what we're referring to "Plan A".

 

[Ban Puncher]

Agree with some of the cameos you mentioned (cantina guys ugh), but these are all terrain vehicles that are meant to be versatile. Where did we see them out of place?

AT-ATs are harsh terrain (but but but All Terrian!!) armoured assault vehicles, not really for beach-going base defence - especially anti-personal combat. That tank from the ambush scene earlier in the film could of been neat to expand on. Just seemed like another opportunity to plop something familiar into a scene to make old nerds in the cinema moist.

AT-STs will always be ridiculous, no matter the situation.

 

[Astral Dog]

CHOke on your aspirations was my favorite part in the movie