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[Aguero9320]

Why would they cancel it at this point for any other reason than it was going to be really bad?

No loss to me personally, after the last E3 showing I was out.

 

[icespide]

MS didnt cancel Recore and its broken and seems unfinished, so why this?

Recore probably wasn't a money pit

 

[Axass]

No ill-will towards Xbox fans, but seeing as big daddy Microsoft wants the gaming division to go that route anyway, frankly I hope that they get out of gaming, at least as far as the console business goes, ASAP. The trends they keep trying to push ever since they entered the industry aren't healthy, this generation less than ever. Especially if those tweets about Microsoft witholding payment and treating Platinum like shit are true. Wouldn't be the first time they did it after all: Phantom Dust.

 

[Arklite]

Kamiya is an industry vet, his games have been high quality throughout and this should've been a solid collaboration between a platform holder and a well respected development firm. Speculation about where mismanagement lay personally doesn't make me think of Kamiya first given recent history of both sides.

 

[2 Slice Toaster]

It's just seeming that there is enough evidence mounting even if circumstantial that MS was meddling.

That's the best kind of evidence, especially for people already inclined to believe a particular narrative.

 

[Obliterator]

McWhertor is from Polygon and and was at Kotaku for years.

Well if this all ends up being true and it's pretty much all on MS then frankly fuck them.

I'm still not going to take a side yet until we get more concrete information from reliable sources but this will be some total bull shit if it pans out.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Something smells bad here. It's not as if Platinum have either a reputation for really late delivery, shoddy engines or subpar games. Maybe they hit a dud here but I'd be amazed if MS wasn't to blame in a large capacity. Kamiya acts like a big man so maybe he should come out and spill the beans.

Sounds like Kamiya has health problems he has to cope with first.

 

[Maxrunner]

Until you and I have the facts, it is probably best to stop the name-calling, corporation or not.

The thing with Ms is that they have that image of being the evil company and things like this certainly doesn't help to dispel that feeling. It's like they want easy and fast money but many times they do these stupid things.

 

[Brazil]

McWhertor is from Polygon and and was at Kotaku for years.

Microsoft is one detailed report away from becoming a personal enemy of mine.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

MS didnt cancel Recore and its broken and seems unfinished, so why this?

Recore is a way smaller game.

 

[facetheslayer92]

Agreed on all points. I have wondered if the original Titanfall had been a bigger deal and helped them stay competitive in 2014, would they have tried to utilize it like Mass Effect? A "console exclusive" from a developer they do not own, that becomes heavily associated with the Xbox brand.

I think a lot of this problem started from 2009 onward. MS became very comfortable relying on Halo/Gears/Forza/Fable, and the fanbases for multiplatform shooters primarily being on Xbox 360. Fast forward to 2013, and the shoehorning of Kinect and resulting MSRP difference between Xbox One and PS4 completely flipped the script on them. This year will be pretty fascinating to see what their approach is.

Alot of their budget in the late 2000s must have gone towards Project Natal aka Kinect. Specifically Kinect games. Either that or Microsoft doesn't care about first parties outside of Halo, Gears, and Forza.

 

[Papacheeks]

You were saying the games were poorly rated because Nintendo didn't promote the Wii U.

No i didn;t dude that was someone else who said the games were not that great to begin with go reread. I was correctling him that most of what Platinum puts out are pretty damn good games, with Bayonetta 2 being a high point along with Vanquish.

No Wii U aka Nintendo did not promote W101 or Bayonetta 2 well, w101 actually got the shaft and even PG tweeted about it.

MS was a publisher that was treating the game like big blockbuster which would have helped elevate PG to be in the spotlight for once to maybe sell their games to a larger user base.

 

[Regiruler]

Recore probably wasn't a money pit

It was on unity and a budget title on a very obviously smaller scope.

 

[giancarlo123x]

MS didnt cancel Recore and its broken and seems unfinished, so why this?

Low budget title, no advertisement, vs large scale flagship title.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

But it was at 2016's E3, trailer, interview and all

https://youtu.be/aV7ob_aJjUk

What happened in these months between then and now?

 

[Glass Rebel]

I believe a poster in this thread named Matt is a developer. Or at least close to people who do.

He didn't accuse MS of anything in THIS situation but he did say Milestone meddling is a way to help shutter a project and that MS HAS been involved in this practice before.

It's just seeming that there is enough evidence mounting even if circumstantial that MS was meddling.

Yeah, we need someone to dig deep here. I don't know how much you know about Japanese culture yadda yadda...

 

[Mass_Pincup]

The decimation of MS first and second party games started with Mattricks. This can't be a serious post.

Under Mattrick MS was actually opening studios, The Coalition, MS' Victoria Studio, Twisted Pixel and Press Play were all created or acquired during Mattrick's tenure.

 

[carlsojo]

Hey, journalists - maybe don't tweet your insider knowledge in vague statements but write an actual article? Either it was off-record or not. Don't tease with information you have if you have reason to believe it's true without actually giving it to us.

It's almost like they want to take the time to gather all the facts and confirm them before pushing out a full article...

Like a journalist.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

MS didnt cancel Recore and its broken and seems unfinished, so why this?

Cheap as chips.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

It's almost like they want to take the time to gather all the facts and confirm them before pushing out a full article...

Like a journalist.

That's crazy talk

 

[LeleSocho]

McWhertor is from Polygon and and was at Kotaku for years.

Well i really want to know the full story now.

 

[Betty]

Kamiya is an industry vet, his games have been high quality throughout and this should've been a solid collaboration between a platform holder and a well respected development firm. Speculation about where mismanagement lay personally doesn't make me think of Kamiya first given recent history of both sides.

Sounded like the game ran terrible because MS wanted certain things included, i'm guessing co-op, and wouldn't budge on the issue.

So the game came to a standstill.

 

[RedStep]

Yet they released ReCore and Quantum Break.

Maybe they're learning? Or maybe this was in way worse shape or not nearly as far along as those? You don't throw away millions of dollars for nothing. Doesn't make them the good guys but nobody would intentionally do that so there's a reason for it.

 

[Eolz]

But it was at 2016's E3, trailer, interview and all

https://youtu.be/aV7ob_aJjUk

What happened in these months between then and now?

The fantastic world of (AAA) game development.

 

[Kaako]

McWhertor is from Polygon and and was at Kotaku for years.

OK, now I need to know the details for this shitshow.

 

[Icolin]

Well i really want to know the full story now.

Same here. This is intriguing, to say the least. Paging Jason Schreier.

 

[Pathfinder]

Yet they released ReCore and Quantum Break.

ReCore likely wasn't as expensive and Microsoft has a long-standing history with Remedy. Not to mention QB wasn't broken or unfinished on a technical level.

 

[Salty Rice]

Recore probably wasn't a money pit

By Phils logic it would have been "better" for us to cancel it.

 

[James Scott]

Hope it's not too much of a set back for Platinum Games. The news of potential publisher meddling is pretty upsetting.
Hope they get some more projects soon.
Hope Kotaku looks into this further. Would be interested to hear what happened

 

[shark sandwich]

Sony should just buy it and release it as Lair 2 lol.

I'd love to see a Lair x Crimson Dragon crossover.

 

[Skulldead]

I have a feeling the multiplayer coop thing was probably not in initial plan... but ms seem to push in that direction a lot lately. Pretty sad for PG i was looking to that game to get à xbone...

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Something smells bad here. It's not as if Platinum have either a reputation for really late delivery, shoddy engines or subpar games. Maybe they hit a dud here but I'd be amazed if MS wasn't to blame in a large capacity. Kamiya seems to have balls, so maybe he should come out and spill the beans.

Edit: The last bit sounded assholey - edited to be more line with what I wanted to say.

He has a big mouth, he's not stupid.

He'd almost certainly be sued by MS if he came out and spoke about anything regarding this.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Under Mattrick MS was actually opening studios, The Coalition, MS' Victoria Studio, Twisted Pixel and Press Play were all created of acquired during Mattrick's tenure.

To be fair, that's also when MS was still doing a good job (more or less) with Xbox. Remember, shit was sweet till that X1 reveal...

 

[Outrun]

You'll do what?

Nothing.

I suspect that a lot of MS-shitting has to do with console warz.

Think for a moment, if the game had potential, MS would be supporting it.

There is a lot that we do not know about the situation, but people like the one that you quoted are ready to hulk up...

 

[bidguy]

Under Mattrick MS was actually opening studios, The Coalition, MS' Victoria Studio, Twisted Pixel and Press Play were all created of acquired during Mattrick's tenure.

mattrick is just the forum scapegoat

the suits at ms are still there in the background.

what i dont get is how darkside got treated so badly while studios like moon or mdhr are generally very positive towards ms.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

Under Mattrick MS was actually opening studios, The Coalition, MS' Victoria Studio, Twisted Pixel and Press Play were all created of acquired during Mattrick's tenure.

And if you agreed with it (lol) or not, you can't blame Mattrick for not having a vision. MS these days doesn't seem to have a vision other than relying on FGH (Forza, Halo, Gears).

 

[Maxrunner]

Maybe they're learning? Or maybe this was in way worse shape or not nearly as far along as those? You don't throw away millions of dollars for nothing. Doesn't make them the good guys but nobody would intentionally do that so there's a reason for it.

Well they bought Nokia...for billions

 

[FelipeMGM]

lol

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

By Phils logic it would have been "better" for us to cancel it.

Just take it as stupid automaton PR spin. Don't try to find the logic on it.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Well they bought Nokia...

I mean they did tank it first

 

[JP]

The thing that really worries me about this is what it could do to Platinum.

What I mean is that if the rumours of Microsoft moving the goalposts and knowingly setting unachievable goals are true then the contract termination could be positioned as Platinum's fault. We'll never know the terms of the contract but if Microsoft had lost interest in this game being released then it could well be beneficial for them to end it in this manner and blame it on Platinum not achieving goals rather than just stating they didn't want to fund it any more.

Depending on the contract, it could be possible that Platinum are beholden to Microsoft and need to recompense them due to it being positioned as their fault for not achieving the set goals, rather than the reverse if Microsoft just said they weren't paying for it anymore.

Clearly, there is a hell of a lot off supposition in what I say and I'm basing it on stuff that we don't even know is true but we do know that Darksiders didn't survive Microsoft moving the goalposts several times during the development of Phantom Dust.

Seeing that the top people in Platinum that were working on the game seemingly vanish a few weeks ago and them possibly taking time due to mental issues brought on by this could mean that they have very good reason to be doing that.

Again, I'm not saying that this is what's happened, it may well not be, hopefully this is not what's happening at all.

 

[Crayon]

Microsoft is one detailed report away from becoming a personal enemy of mine.

They will eventually have the same reputation in gaming that they have everywhere else.

 

[Granjinha]

It was on unity and a budget title on a very obviously smaller scope.

and even that was rushed

 

[hawk2025]

I keep seeing this argument that this makes sense because Microsoft can move the resources elsewhere.

If the current lineup is already big enough with a small handful of games that it's stretching the Xbox division's budget thin, this is even worse news than Scalebound being cancelled by itself.

Y'all are painting this scenario as a good thing, but it only looks worse.

 

[RefigeKru]

Looking at the footage I don't even blame Microsoft.

Imagine it from their perspective. They probably thought they were getting Vanquish, and ended up with

This reminds me of Lair.

 

[Skinpop]

Milestones are always a matter of trust because whatever's contracted is never going to be described in such forensic detail that the publisher can't turn round and say, "Nope, we're not signing off on that" if it suits them.

Its just the nature of the beast, and if the publisher decides they want to call time on a project failing milestones is just a standard precursor.

can't remember which dev and publisher it was.. maybe bethesda.. anyway they had this habit of disapproving and changing milestones, which put external devs in a situation where they'd have to borrow more money. they'd end up being owned by the publisher - which obviously was the strategy from the beginning. Deliberately not signing off on things is exactly what they did-
Seem like the kind of thing MS would do.

 

[Azerth]

I have a feeling the multiplayer coop thing was probably not in initial plan... but ms seem to push in that direction a lot lately. Pretty sad for PG i was looking to that game to get à xbone...

co-op was teased since the reveal

 

[robotrock]

But it was at 2016's E3, trailer, interview and all

https://youtu.be/aV7ob_aJjUk

What happened in these months between then and now?

some fucking bullshit

 

[bidguy]

This reminds me of Lair.

looks more like that dragon rail shooter thing they released at launch

 

[m23]

Under Mattrick MS was actually opening studios, The Coalition, MS' Victoria Studio, Twisted Pixel and Press Play were all created or acquired during Mattrick's tenure.

Mattrick was also the reason MGS came to Xbox.