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Source - Eurogamer

Gameplay footage showing the Batman game that evolved into Shadow of Mordor has appeared online.

Once upon a time, developer Monolith was working on this Batman project with the hope it would tie in with Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight film series. However, the game was eventually scrapped - reportedly in part due to the films' director never officially giving the idea his blessing.

A 2019 episode of Did You Know Gaming? reported that this cancelled Batman project - which was codenamed Apollo - would have featured a variety of stealth and combat mechanics inspired by the Arkham games, open-world technology and the foundation of what would eventually become Shadow of Mordor's Nemesis system.

Now, a collection of images and snippets of gameplay from Monolith's cancelled Batman project have made their way online.

Shared to social media platform X, these show a glimpse at Batman gliding over the streets of Gotham, the game's Batmobile, gadget loadouts, stealth sequences and more.

But, as we know, this game never made it to completion. As X user SpideyRanger notes in their thread: "Warner Brothers didn't think that having two Batman gaming franchises was a great idea so the Batman game was retooled to a Lord of the Rings project and that's how we got 'Shadow of Mordor'."

 

[HL3.exe]

This is known for awhile, but good to see more footage.


some more history.

 

[flying_sq]

I could use another Shadow of Mordor game, they were pretty fun

 

[IAmRei]

I thought it was monolith soft : ))
But, dang, it looks promising

 

[Kiya's Guard]

So if I killed the batmetal joker, he would return as the jack nicholson's version and become derpier? Damn it WB, why didn't you let this happen!

 

[VolticArchangel]

Looks like an early prototype/precursor to Arkham.

 

[IAmNotFromDelaware]

I could use another Shadow of Mordor game, they were pretty fun

Instead we got to Gollum...

I'm not even sure if they can make another Mordor game. I believe the license no longer belongs to them. Hopefully I'm wrong. I absolutely love the series and spent countless hours on it.

 

[Hollowpoint5557]

Batman died so the Shadow games could live and I'm OK with that. That being said, it's time for another great Batman game.

 

[AJUMP23]

I am glad we got Mordor instead. Could have been a cool batman game with Nemesis system.

 

[Topher]

Sucks we never got more Mordor games.

 

[jason10mm]

I wonder if Batman branding bad guys in BvS was some echo of what he might have done in this game. Batman recruiting goons to his side isn't really what I think of with Bats, but having baddies that defeated him get stronger has merit.

I'm not sure what IP the nemesis system would work really well for. A mafia/yakuza game? Some sort of demon v angels thing? Gladiators?

 

[Diddy X]

Interesting, I've been playing Shadow of Mordor these days, fun game.

 

[tkscz]

Looks like an early prototype/precursor to Arkham.

Shadow of Mordor had come out after Arkham City, so it feels more like a prototype of just Arkham Knight.

 

[Hemingwayoffbase]

The nemesis system for Batman would be awesome if it only applied to super villains.

Like imagine if you beat the Penguin early in the game, and then he comes back stronger later in the game. Echoes how the comic stories usually work. Like they “get released from Arkham Asylum” and now they’re stronger and more pissed at Batman.

This could be a cool spin on the famous Mr. Freeze boss fight from Arkham City, but for all the big bad guys.

 

[darrylgorn]

I gave Mordor (and Shadow of War) a ton of chances, but kept falling asleep at the monotonous environments and seemingly endless fighting. I think the mechanics would have been more impactful if the game didn't feel so damn bloated.

 

[kiphalfton]

I gave Mordor (and Shadow of War) a ton of chances, but kept falling asleep at the monotonous environments and seemingly endless fighting. I think the mechanics would have been more impactful if the game didn't feel so damn bloated.

Exactly. Only played through the first sandbox in SoM, and that map was just so crappy and wasn't what I was expecting.

Essentially just became orc killing simulator like some people have labeled it, and even then it wasn't that good in that respect.

 

[Danjin44]

I thought it was monolith soft : ))
But, dang, it looks promising

 

[CamHostage]

Early prototype footage, so I can't judge too much, but they made a smart decision to refocus the concept with what they liked here in a different scenario. Cool to see though.

The nemesis system for Batman would be awesome if it only applied to super villains.

Like imagine if you beat the Penguin early in the game, and then he comes back stronger later in the game. Echoes how the comic stories usually work. Like they “get released from Arkham Asylum” and now they’re stronger and more pissed at Batman.

This could be a cool spin on the famous Mr. Freeze boss fight from Arkham City, but for all the big bad guys.

Eh, but that's just level balancing. If you beat the boss and then the boss comes back, they'll have a different final form or attack pattern, in order to be harder than last time. And you always beat the boss, because it's a video game system.

Nemesis system isn't a binary system, it doesn't go "win = friend" or "if=win then anger=+1000" ; that'd be easy. Nemesis (as I understand it, I've read about it but haven't played SoM) is more a recruiting and conversation system where small rivals have different logic paths that you affect with your actions, and can you can shift their path and even win character over by actions in the game that affect their mindset. This type of system works best in micro and accumulated events rather than macro; instead of one boss or one gang flipping allegiances when you beat a boss, the characters in the world react to you beating a boss, and some fighters will be even more violent but others will join your heroic cause based on actions you took getting there which they saw benefitting their interests. It's a complex concept, and it makes sense to me why so few games then or now (patent or otherwise) have tried a similar system.

 

[Moses85]

I cant see any similarities to mordor games..

 

[Bridges]

I'm not sure what IP the nemesis system would work really well for. A mafia/yakuza game?

I had never considered it before, but the Nemesis system would be so cool in a Yakuza/Judgment/Like A Dragon game (in the brawler style, at least. Not sure how enjoyable that'd be turn based but maybe).

 

[Trunx81]

Now imagine the performance on PS3, if you know the SoM port …

 

[CamHostage]

I'm not sure what IP the nemesis system would work really well for. A mafia/yakuza game? Some sort of demon v angels thing? Gladiators?

GTA SA and VCS had a gang recruiting system, where conquering a territory gave you team members you could call upon to be an backup gunman when roaming about an area. I remember it being simplistic fun as a side event of conquering the map area by area, and you would have invasions where rivals try to flip the spot, but otherwise I remember it being very basic and binary. You either owned a territory or you didn't. A Nemesis system would give each character a range of wants as they roam their city, so if you have a habit of running over civilians in a certain block, a mommy group might take up arms to protect their streets, or if you constantly face fights with a certain gang by just fisticuffs rather than guns, they'd come to respect your honor and not shoot at you when you drive in, or if a certain cop busts you twice on a block, he'd be confident that you're trouble if you come into town again and would tail you as you look for missions. (Those ideas are still basic in logic conditions, Nemesis seems like it'd work best when it's subtle, but there's a lot of ways to color a map as big and populated as a GTA city.)

Doesn't the most recent WatchDogs have some type of recuiting system to it too, with backstories to characters that change the tasks needed to get them?

 

[jason10mm]

Early prototype footage, so I can't judge too much, but they made a smart decision to refocus the concept with what they liked here in a different scenario. Cool to see though.



Eh, but that's just level balancing. If you beat the boss and then the boss comes back, they'll have a different final form or attack pattern, in order to be harder than last time. And you always beat the boss, because it's a video game system.

Nemesis system isn't a binary system, it doesn't go "win = friend" or "if=win then anger=+1000" ; that'd be easy. Nemesis (as I understand it, I've read about it but haven't played SoM) is more a recruiting and conversation system where small rivals have different logic paths that you affect with your actions, and can you can shift their path and even win character over by actions in the game that affect their mindset. This type of system works best in micro and accumulated events rather than macro; instead of one boss or one gang flipping allegiances when you beat a boss, the characters in the world react to you beating a boss, and some fighters will be even more violent but others will join your heroic cause based on actions you took getting there which they saw benefitting their interests. It's a complex concept, and it makes sense to me why so few games then or now (patent or otherwise) have tried a similar system.

The way it worked in the Mordor games was certain "sub boss" baddies had specific traits you could determine and use to defeat them or choose to recruit. When you beat them you could "possess" them into being a loyal ally and then you could target enemies to help them get promoted and essentially subverting enemy command structures from within. Any enemy that beat you would get promoted to a sub boss themselves or gain more power if they were already a boss.

It was frustrating initially as a player because you HATED to see these fuckers gloat when they beat you, but later on it was quite cool to work the enemy network to your favor by helping "your guys" win over others. So any new IP just needs a system to replicate the "you got defeated" (in the morning games you were basically a ghost so you just respawned) part and then the "you are MINE" possession bit.

 

[CamHostage]

The way it worked in the Mordor games was certain "sub boss" baddies had specific traits you could determine and use to defeat them or choose to recruit. When you beat them you could "possess" them into being a loyal ally and then you could target enemies to help them get promoted and essentially subverting enemy command structures from within. Any enemy that beat you would get promoted to a sub boss themselves or gain more power if they were already a boss.

It was frustrating initially as a player because you HATED to see these fuckers gloat when they beat you, but later on it was quite cool to work the enemy network to your favor by helping "your guys" win over others. So any new IP just needs a system to replicate the "you got defeated" (in the morning games you were basically a ghost so you just respawned) part and then the "you are MINE" possession bit.

Right, it makes sense what the developers got out of it and how it affected play in SoM.

Apparently there were a ton of factors in Nemesis (including adjustable rank, power levels, fighting styles, relationships, location, traits of strengths and weaknesses,) and lots of those elements affected the long-term play experience for gamers, albeit in the end it kind of boils down to a collectible. Win over as many Warchiefs and Captains as you can and they're yours to use when you need them, kind of like pets or base stations. In the beginning, you're weak and alone (and the Nemesis system further punishes you by remembering who kicked your ass,) but win over the nemeses and you have a network of an army at your disposal.

Finding other uses of Nemesis-style game systems is tough. They've so far, as far as I can tell, have worked out to work with three factors:

• power/recruit levels (by having more foes you've won over, you have a stronger fighting force for challenges deeper into the game,)
  context-sensitive events (I remember Infamous originally had civilians rooting for you with cheers and signs if you had good karma or booed you and formed mobs against you if you had bad karma, also GTA I believe changed store signs and marque colors if you won a territory?),
• and conversation trees (when you talk to people, they have different responses depending on what you have done in the game since last chat, or whether you have had positive or negative influence on the character's traits/relationships.)

A system like Nemesis can make the world feel more alive and active, as things you do in play affect how the world and its characters react to those events. You know when a Chief is extra pissed at you, because you've seen his face before and you know what happened last time. (You might also know that he has learned a few of your moves, as that's in the fighting style knowledge base, so you may have to be smarter a second time in spamming your favorite attacks.) A Nemesis system can also, however, make it feel more videogame'ey, as players start to figure out how to game the system, and get obsessed with conquering as many foes as there are to collect even if when they've surpassed the usefulness. Or it can feel frustrating, as it could add even more grinding to your progress and make too much of the early play (when you don't know any better) affect the rest of the trajectory of your entire experience. So a future use of such a system would hopefully find ways to make it organic and constantly evolving.

We'll see what Monolith's next game, Wonder Woman, can do with the system.

 

[hussar16]

I never liked the arkham games the art style was weird and it was a mashy button action game. This realstic batman game fits what I would play