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[hodayathink]

I find it funny people think this is a thing unique to Microsoft.

Welcome to the modern AAA console games industry. Perhaps the closures and cancellations Sony did a while back has already escaped people's minds.

Sony gave Stig something like 3-4 years to work on his game without any public spotlight before they cancelled it, and arguably only fired the team because there was really nothing else for them to work on (IIRC, they had already re-hired Balrog to start pre-production on the new God Of War). As mentioned earlier, they closed Evolution because of Driveclub, but they also allowed them to basically completely move over to Codemasters as an intact team, and even allowed them to work a little more on Driveclub after doing so. Sony Bend is going to go something like 6 years between shipped games. Then we get to games like TLG, which MS would have pulled the plug on years ago when they realized it wasn't coming out on PS3(360 as it were). If anything, Sony gives their developers (first party especially) too much rope and sometimes they end up hanging themselves with it.

 

[Can Crusher]

To the surprise of no one? Look at what they did to Rare after spending 350 million on them. Or Lionhead, they killed that shit. Bungie left their ass, couldn't take the bullshit anymore. Now Platinum calls it quits.The devs of Gears of War 4 were working on their own IP until they too got that shut down, so MS could pump yet another Gears nobody really wanted.

Look at the state of MS first party, it's goddamn terrible. 343i is a bust, they have basically turned Halo into a run of the mill franchise. Forza is now a yearly franchise, holy smokes. But yay, they spent 2 billion on Minecraft.

 

[wapplew]

Microsoft used to be really cool during xbox 360 era. They even had a headstart over Sony when it comes to exclusive JRPG selections, such as:

Blue Dragon
Lost Odyssey
Tales of Vesperia
Magna Carta 2
Infinite Undiscovery

Now?

.....

Everyone forget about Eternal Sonata when we mention 360 JRPG time/exclusive...sad.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

If you actually bothered to read the OP, it's well sourced. If you have a counter argument of similar quality I'd be interested in reading it.

If all you want to do is come and shit on the OP while making it personal then I'm really not interested in reading that.

The OP is all speculation and guesswork and only tells the one side of the story as MS have not and do not comment on issues or circumstances like this. If its well sourced then where is the counterpoint to what an anonymous dev has said? I get that feelings are running high right now and many people are disappointed that Scalebound is no more (is the OP?) but I would expect this thread to keep growing and I would expect to see similar threads pop up over the next few weeks as well.

You can all chime in with how Microsoft are the worst comapny to work with in the world, ill leave you to it. Enjoy

 

[jelly]

What happens if Playground games move onto bigger and better things like an all platform game. Probably the best partnership they've made in recent times.

 

[DongBeetle]

The fact that Rare missed most of the 7th gen is an injustice in its own right, especially after they had been producing great game after great game.

After having spent so much time in the games industry, Microsoft still doesn't seem to understand what their userbase actually wants. They list other exclusives as alternatives to this one but none of those really scratch the same itch

 

[sphinx]

I wouldn't be shocked if he tries to ensure no Japanese developer he's friends with to work with them.

I guess the "honor and shame" thing does apply in this case lol

the japanese dev world is a community and people know each other there, I am gonna bet Kamiya is going to grill MS whenever he cans. MS being a non.factor in Japan won't help matters.

 

[Metal B]

Look at the state of MS first party, it's goddamn terrible. 343i is a bust, they have basically turned Halo into a run of the mill franchise. Forza is now a yearly franchise, holy smokes. But yay, they spent 2 billion on Minecraft.

To make it even more funny, Minecraft isn't even a Xbox exclusive title.

 

[SolarMystic]

https://kotaku.com/how-a-small-game-studio-almost-made-it-big-1696997142
You should actually read the article.

This is the first time reading that article. This is really shitty of MS. Really shitty.

 

[Theorry]

Not every partnership end sour, there are success stories like Playground Games, Moon studio and Iron Galaxy, MS help put them in the map.
Shit happens I guess.

Jup.

 

[Black Mantis]

To make it even more funny, Minecraft isn't even a Xbox exclusive title.

Do you really think any publisher would turn Minecraft into an exclusive title at the point Microsoft bought it?

 

[SolarMystic]

Sony gave Stig something like 3-4 years to work on his game without any public spotlight before they cancelled it, and arguably only fired the team because there was really nothing else for them to work on (IIRC, they had already re-hired Balrog to start pre-production on the new God Of War). As mentioned earlier, they closed Evolution because of Driveclub, but they also allowed them to basically completely move over to Codemasters as an intact team, and even allowed them to work a little more on Driveclub after doing so. Sony Bend is going to go something like 6 years between shipped games. Then we get to games like TLG, which MS would have pulled the plug on years ago when they realized it wasn't coming out on PS3(360 as it were). If anything, Sony gives their developers (first party especially) too much rope and sometimes they end up hanging themselves with it.

My point was that game cancellations and the like are not uncommon in the industry as a whole, not if Sony has a 1:1 same exact scenario. I don't care about the console war stuff, don't have time for that crap, too many good games on both consoles to play.

 

[willbsn13]

What happens if Playground games move onto bigger and better things like an all platform game. Probably the best partnership they've made in recent times.

They're transitioning into being a two team studio now;

- One working on Forza (small portion on FH3 DLC and the rest on FH4 I'm assuming)

- And another working on a new IP that isn't a racing game. Nothing has been said about it other than that, but obviously the Horizon series has been doing well enough for them to branch out into other areas which is good, could be a Xbox/W10 exclusive?

 

[Jumeira]

I'd add Double Helix/Iron Galaxy, Armature, Capcom and Insomniac to that list as well.

Don't forget Respawn, MS saved Titanfall

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Do you really think any publisher would turn Minecraft into an exclusive title at the point Microsoft bought it?

If Minecraft 2 happens it will not be on PS4 and Switch.

 

[Crayolan]

Wow, that Phantom Dust story...

Really bad look for MS right now.

 

[runnin_blue]

Disclosure: I've read the OP, not the entire thread yet. So sorry if already mentioned.

I don't understand the bit about how Darkside "signed a contract" to produce a multiplayer game based on Phantom Dust for 5 million dollars, then a week later Microsoft demanded a 6 hour singleplayer portion be added but didn't offer any extra money. Fast forward and Darkside goes out of business...

What was the point of the contract?

If someone says "I'll give you $60 to mow my lawn" and then on the day I rock up to get started they say "I want you to mow my lawn and ALSO wash my car, for that original $60". I'd ask for more money. If the answer's no, I'd walk.

 

[LuvOfThaGame]

I dont like seeing games cancelled either, but do you really expect MS to keep throwing money down a hole when the quality is not up to their contracted standards? This is how Ive understood how these cancellations went down. Would you keep on paying a contractor to build you a deck out of popsicle sticks? Probably not.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

It's a no-win for Microsoft here, they're a business after all. They need to appease shareholders (legal obligation) as well as fans.

Give more time and money to a developer, with no guarantee of the final product being any good or selling well? Nope.

Push out the game regardless, knowing that it will be a mess and hurt your reputation among gamers further? Nope.

Sony and Nintendo are different, Japanese companies tend to have less pressure from shareholders, and are able to focus on long-term strategy if they want to. US shareholders are generally short-term and like to apply any pressure they can to achieve that short term gain for themselves.

 

[anothertech]

Fck this sht.

Mismanaged Fable

Mismanaged tomb raider

Mismanaged D4

Mismanaged phantom dust

Mismanaged scalebound

I mean, the list of upcoming games for the Scorpio is just depressing at this point.

 

[Savantcore]

Disclosure: I've read the OP, not the entire thread yet. So sorry if already mentioned.

I don't understand the bit about how Darkside "signed a contract" to produce a multiplayer game based on Phantom Dust for 5 million dollars, then a week later Microsoft demanded a 6 hour singleplayer portion be added but didn't offer any extra money. Fast forward and Darkside goes out of business...

What was the point of the contract?

If someone says "I'll give you $60 to mow my lawn" and then on the day I rock up to get started they say "I want you to mow my lawn and ALSO wash my car, for that original $60". I'd ask for more money. If the answer's no, I'd walk.

Still, employees say they were committed to pulling it off. This was their first solo project. They wanted to prove they were good enough to do it.

Obviously that turned out to be a bad move.

 

[Jumeira]

Three devs in less than two years, starts to look a lot like a pattern. That Phantom Dust story, Jesus Christ.

You going to ignore all the successful partnerships they've had? Fable Legends looked poor from the first day and was reportedly losing a significant amount, more so then a normal AAA game, PD was a budget release (which seems to be the real victim here) and Scalebound seems like (from Eurogamer) development hell with the main creative having to take time off due to mental health with most of the leads, the only pattern is that MS will not continue to fund games that seem troubled and are far too costly, which is just business. We should really wait to get the full story.

To the surprise of no one? Look at what they did to Rare after spending 350 million on them. Or Lionhead, they killed that shit. Bungie left their ass, couldn't take the bullshit anymore. Now Platinum calls it quits.The devs of Gears of War 4 were working on their own IP until they too got that shut down, so MS could pump yet another Gears nobody really wanted.

Look at the state of MS first party, it's goddamn terrible. 343i is a bust, they have basically turned Halo into a run of the mill franchise. Forza is now a yearly franchise, holy smokes. But yay, they spent 2 billion on Minecraft.

God damn where to begin? Where are you getting your news?

Rare do what they want, they don't want to make another Banjo. Infact Sea of Thieves is thier dream project.

Lionhead has a string of duds, see above.

MS allowed Bungie to part ways, very rare for a corporation to do so

Coalition have a hit on their hands and are being guided by one of the industry greats

Forza Horizon 3 is the best racing game this gen, it's part of the Forza family but the yearly cycle releases 2 completely different games so you comment isn't accurate

343i have work to do still but have created a multiplayer that has been well received and widely known as the best playing Halo in years .

 

[Team Andromeda]

With the cancellation of Scalebound, we have the third instance this gen of Microsoft cancelling a third party game because it didn't make expectations, leaving the developer in a poor situation.

God fanboys are out in force again. Every corp will evaluate a project and I'm guessing after 4 years and millions spent and Platinum games not being able to hit the next milestone that was it and no more money was allowed to be spent on the project, that happens and it happens with many corps and sadly loads of games I would have loved to seen make it through

Platinum games have 4 years and still couldn't deliver, its their fault. The mistake MS made was investing in the overrated corp and not going with FromSoftware and making an O.TO.GI III and having SEGA and From make a sequel to Chromhounds
Platinum games are overrated, they mostly sell like crap (just ask SEGA) and the corp simply had too many projects on the go at one time and it's quite clear quality (and the Teams health) suffered as a result; Star Fox Zero was rubbish and looked like crap, The Turtles game a joke and Transformers not much better. The likes of FromSoftware are so much better

 

[runnin_blue]

Obviously that turned out to be a bad move.

Yeah, I saw that bit. Still doesn't make sense.

I understand passion and endeavour, but business 101 people. FFS.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

OK, so you are adopting the doomsday scenario for Scorpio then?

It is confusing. Sometimes it is exclusives that sell consoles. Other times, it is superior multiplatform titles...

I guess dispite the supposed hardware superiority, no multiplatform titles will look superior.

And on top of that MS has no fresh exclusives...

They are fucked and should pack it in.

Nintendo goes third party.
Microsoft goes third party.
Sony inherits the Earth.

 

[kyser73]

It's threads like these that remind me that very few people on the gaming side know anything about MS' history as a company.

Yes it's business to review & cancel projects. It's also business to not constantly shift project scope, goals and outcomes.

I wont be the least bit surprised if MS pulled the same scope-changing BS on Platinum as they did with Darkside. Scaleebijnd wasn't a game outside PG's developer skill set, and as has been noted, their track record for project delivery is very good.

 

[Zemm]

Poor 3rd party relations, poor reputation worldwide (outside the US), console exclusives also on PC, I think the Xbox division is in serious trouble if Scorpio doesn't sell like crazy. All chickens seem to be in that basket right now.

 

[Kaelan]

Poor 3rd party relations, poor reputation worldwide (outside the US), console exclusives also on PC, I think the Xbox division is in serious trouble if Scorpio doesn't sell like crazy. All chickens seem to be in that basket right now.

Yep. Also I doubt third parties will even want to support the Scorpio with how Microsoft tends to handle third party relations. Plus with the pro already out Microsoft will have to go above and beyond for people to support it or take advantage.

 

[cripterion]

So MS meddled and ruined this game? I don't get where games like Forza Horizon can be one of the most polished 3rd Party games, and that's because of Playground games. Yet when a game gets cancelled, it's Microsoft's missmanagment. This is the almost always the case in GAF debates. Games are good in spite of Microsodf, games are bad/cancelled becuase of Microsoft.

Sure doesn't sound that way on their Windows 10 platform lol

 

[Spiral Insanity]

You know how it goes. "eggs in one basket". If these third parties are staking their very company's fate to a single project, they're asking for trouble.

Naturally first party studios don't have that luxury. Microsoft deserves no sympathy for not finding other work for, let's say Lionhead, than to milk Fable dry.

It isn't that simple. And if you know PG, they certainly didn't have their eggs in one basket. But this could have ruined them still.

God fanboys are out in force again. Every corp will evaluate a project and I'm guessing after 4 years and millions spent and Platinum games not being able to hit the next milestone that was it and no more money was allowed to be spent on the project, that happens and it happens with many corps and sadly loads of games I would have loved to seen make it through

Platinum games have 4 years and still couldn't deliver, its their fault. The mistake MS made was investing in the overrated corp and not going with FromSoftware and making an O.TO.GI III and having SEGA and From make a sequel to Chromhounds
Platinum games are overrated, they mostly sell like crap (just ask SEGA) and the corp simply had too many projects on the go at one time and it's quite clear quality (and the Teams health) suffered as a result; Star Fox Zero was rubbish and looked like crap, The Turtles game a joke and Transformers not much better. The likes of FromSoftware are so much better

Shame on you.

 

[jdstorm]

Rare do what they want, they don't want to make another Banjo. Infact Sea of Thieves is thier dream project.

That may be true of the current personel at Rare. However the People who were the heart and soul of Pre Microsoft Rare had to go the Indy Kickstarter route in order to make the games they wanted to make.

That's hardly a well managed success story.

 

[Harlequin]

Poor 3rd party relations, poor reputation worldwide (outside the US), console exclusives also on PC, I think the Xbox division is in serious trouble if Scorpio doesn't sell like crazy. All chickens seem to be in that basket right now.

I have a hard time believing that they expect it to "sell like crazy". They seem to be eager on positioning it as a high-end top-of-the-line machine and if there's any substance to that marketing talk, they'll most likely have to sell it at a significant loss for it to be appealing to casual gamers at large which... I guess there's a chance of them doing that? But still, I can't really see them pricing it that low TBH. I think it's going to be more in the PS3 launch price ballpark.

 

[plasmawave]

If Minecraft 2 happens it will not be on PS4 and Switch.

I think it will.

 

[Kazuo Hirai]

I think it will.

Maybe he means it will be mobile only (which not include windows phone)

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Especially considering not only how many projects Platinum takes on but they also have a very shaky track record when it comes to quality software. For every Bayonetta and Vanquish there is a Korra or TMNT.

These were low budgets games that needed to be made in a hurry, you can't really compare them to their bigger and better efforts (though Transformers was ace). If we're talking track records, Kamiya made Resident Evil 2, Devil May Cry, Okami, Viewtiful Joe, Bayonetta and The Wonderful 101. That's one hell of a track record.

God fanboys are out in force again. Every corp will evaluate a project and I'm guessing after 4 years and millions spent and Platinum games not being able to hit the next milestone that was it and no more money was allowed to be spent on the project, that happens and it happens with many corps and sadly loads of games I would have loved to seen make it through

Platinum games have 4 years and still couldn't deliver, its their fault. The mistake MS made was investing in the overrated corp and not going with FromSoftware and making an O.TO.GI III and having SEGA and From make a sequel to Chromhounds
Platinum games are overrated, they mostly sell like crap (just ask SEGA) and the corp simply had too many projects on the go at one time and it's quite clear quality (and the Teams health) suffered as a result; Star Fox Zero was rubbish and looked like crap, The Turtles game a joke and Transformers not much better. The likes of FromSoftware are so much better

Yikes.

 

[Guymelef]

Level-5, Mistwalker, Platinum, what's next?

 

[Dehnus]

Nintendo goes third party.
Microsoft goes third party.
Sony inherits the Earth.

And then, through every speaker and every cellphone it will play: https://youtu.be/MolJ4IntStw

You will then see a white asteroid returning to earth, on impact a blue and white vapor will envelop the earth. Once the dust settles, a man wearing nothing but a ripped of keikogi, can be seen heading to the SEGA building in Haneka, strangling everybody at the CEO board and place Dreamcast 2 on the table. On the date on 20-2-2020 (20th February 2020 for you Americans, at 20:20 in the evening), he shall start his war against Sony and the world shall see it is good.

As was written by the letters of Prophet Hideki Sato to the Sinful Chairmen of the board who just sided with the Judas Peter Moore. .


No all kidding aside: MS is fucking up bad, and simply has no exclusives that aren't catered to DudeBros or Petrolheads. Sure there is cuphead, but wouldn't surprise me if that will get cancelled soon as well at some chairmen meeting of the board in favour of "Xbox For Business! Use your Xbox one to spy on your workforce via Kinect 2.0!" or some shitty thing like that that nobody asked for.

 

[Nessus]

As a huge Age Of Empires II fan I never got over how MS closed Ensemble Studios before Halo Wars was even released. It didn't matter how well the game did (it ended up selling over 1 million copies, making it the best selling console RTS ever, even now) MS wanted Ensemble dead.

As for Scalebound, during a generation that already has so few exclusives, third party or otherwise, MS really can't afford to lose one of the few games that might have helped differentiate their console.

 

[Net]

God fanboys are out in force again. Every corp will evaluate a project and I'm guessing after 4 years and millions spent and Platinum games not being able to hit the next milestone that was it and no more money was allowed to be spent on the project, that happens and it happens with many corps and sadly loads of games I would have loved to seen make it through

Platinum games have 4 years and still couldn't deliver, its their fault. The mistake MS made was investing in the overrated corp and not going with FromSoftware and making an O.TO.GI III and having SEGA and From make a sequel to Chromhounds
Platinum games are overrated, they mostly sell like crap (just ask SEGA) and the corp simply had too many projects on the go at one time and it's quite clear quality (and the Teams health) suffered as a result; Star Fox Zero was rubbish and looked like crap, The Turtles game a joke and Transformers not much better. The likes of FromSoftware are so much better

This is tempting bait I admit.

 

[Can Crusher]

Sad to see shade being thrown at the developers. How the hell is MS a company that warrants that kind of defense? Baffling

 

[thomasmahler]

No all kidding aside: MS is fucking up bad, and simply has no exclusives that aren't catered to DudeBros or Petrolheads.

Hey, Ori caters to everybody And Ori is one of the biggest indie hits out there judging by review scores and sales numbers!

It's always tough to see a news article like that. Scalebound never really appealed to me and I found it kinda shocking how it performed at Gamescom, but unless you hear both sides of the story, I always think it's unfair to judge. The game has been in development for a long, long time, so I'm guessing not everything went smoothly in development.

 

[Dizzy]

Strange how little money Microsoft was prepared to throw at Phantom Dust. Also sad is the 30 hour jrpg comments and unnannounced cgj trailer.


Think we all know though that Microsoft cares very little for anything without the Halo/Gears/Forza name. They only really go for safe bets.

 

[LukasTaves]

Yeah, this is what gets me. Platinum's record with Activision shows that they will get a game out in time within a budget no matter what. It seems odd that what struck them out could be an inability to work within time and budget constraints. By the rumors, overworking to meet deadlines was what put Kamiya and his team out of commission. I don't think putting all the blame on Platinum here is realistic given their track record, especially compared to the picture Darkside paint of MS.

When there's smoke from one source, maybe it's just smoke and mirrors. But when there's smoking coming from multiple directions, it starts to look like a fire.

None of previous platinum games were any where near the scope of Scalebound though. Graphics alone already set Scalebound apart from anything platinum had done.

And according to the guy that leaked in the first place, platinum wasn't delivering on that scope (for many reasons including the staff being soured after a culture clash over the look of the game) and ms wasn't willing to compromise.

It's a shame, because the game would be amazing if delivered, but I wouldn't fault them for after banking the game for nearly 4 years to hear that the developer needs more time and money to deliver a game with less features.

Now, perhaps the project was doomed from start, it's very easy for a company to miscalculate budget and time for a project bigger than anything they done before, and it's quite likely ms thought they were getting a super action rpg for cheap and that is a receipt for disaster when reality settle in.

 

[Theorry]

Strange how little money Microsoft was prepared to throw at Phantom Dust. Also sad is the 30 hour jrpg comments and unnannounced cgj trailer.


Think we all know though that Microsoft cares very little for anything without the Halo/Gears/Forza name. They only really go for safe bets.

Jup Sunset Overdrive is as safe as it can be...

 

[EvB]

That may be true of the current personel at Rare. However the People who were the heart and soul of Pre Microsoft Rare had to go the Indy Kickstarter route in order to make the games they wanted to make.

That's hardly a well managed success story.

Yeah totally

Phil Spencer taking the mantle of Xbox is one of the best things that could have happened for Rare. Because he's always said to people at Rare [as general manager of Microsoft Studios], 'Do what you want to do and we'll back you,' and he's always stayed true to his word in that regard. It was people in Rare's management at the time who said: 'Well, Kinect is a great opportunity for the studio - go all in on it.' So when executives at Microsoft see that the management team are passionate about doing that, they back them. Microsoft to their credit did that, and perhaps the story online isn't quite reflective of the truth.

Every company makes mistakes, and people forgive certain companies more than others. We all love Nintendo so much we can forgive them for whatever they do. We'll always forgive them, the day the next Zelda comes around. Everybody likes to create this narrative that Microsoft are evil, but that's not the case - they were very supportive. I guess there were a few people who have since left who thought: 'I wanted to be working on this game or my pet project, and I didn't get to.' And they've kind of painted a picture that it's all Microsoft's fault

 

[Axass]

Eurogamer sources say PG senior members left for a whole month due to stress and such.

Both sides seem at fault. There is more to this story.

Leaving because you're ill is "being at fault" now?

 

[Unknown One]

I find it funny people think this is a thing unique to Microsoft.

Welcome to the modern AAA console games industry. Perhaps the closures and cancellations Sony did a while back has already escaped people's minds.

This is a worthless post unless you post examples with creditable source.

 

[EvB]

This is a worthless post unless you post examples with creditable source.

Yeah, we need more listwars.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

MS should do what Sony have been doing lately, just let developers have all the time they need, sure it might mean some delays but it really hasn't done any damage to Sony at all.

 

[EVH]

Did anybody mention Jon Blow yet?

WTF