marimorimo
Member
Damn even more reason to stick with my Wii U that I have a shit ton of accessories for.
Even a friggin mic!!!
Even a friggin mic!!!
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Nintendo Switch Joy-Con $80, Pro Controller $70
- Thread starter Spy
- Start date
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I have the same worry. I mean worry is too strong a word as I can deal with using the Grip if need be. I'd just rather not hassle with it and just play on TV with pro controller and leave the joy cons on the tablet all the time for quick switching and not hassling with moving them back and forth to charge.
PeterLegend
Member
I thought the dock had extra hardware in it but it appears all the hardware is in the tablet.
When you undock the tablet just downclocks huh...
So really the dock is just a device to help hold the console and provide ports to the tv...For $90 LOL
When you undock the tablet just downclocks huh...
So really the dock is just a device to help hold the console and provide ports to the tv...For $90 LOL
sixteen-bit
Member
In that case I wonder if we'll see cheaper 3rd-party docks in the future.
Pokemaniac
Member
Based on what we know, I suspect the dock may at least contain an HDMI controller plus a lightweight CPU to facilitate moving the data around. At the very least, it seems to be doing some stuff that seems beyond the capability of plastic and some wires.
You guys did notice when the console was undocked there was text on the TV talking about docking it, right? No way a 3rd party is gonna get the ok to add all that stuff. Plus it's most likely telling the Switch to ramp up the CPU speed, I doubt when plugged into just a charger that stuff will kick in.
Papacheeks
Banned
It's been pointed out there is no extra processing what so ever, the dock is straight up ports to go out to TV, USB and DC power.
Papacheeks
Banned
lol. NO.
The surface Pro 3 dock has an actual ethernet port,2x usb 2.0 ports, 2x 3.0 USB ports all can be used for storage, along with an audio jack, and a mini display port.
It does way more and that's why it's more expensive.
But even the first generation docks had an ethernet port, display, and usb for external storage use. For a little over a $100, you can't even use the switches usb for storage.
The minimum DIY solution right now is gonna be around $60, $30 for the USB-C adapter (with power, USB, and HDMI), and $30 for the power supply...you could skimp on the latter but USB-C power is a bit of a mess right now and I wouldn't cheap out on it. Well and HDMI cable but you probably have one laying around, or it's another few bucks at most.
WordAssassin
Member
Oh dang, I had no idea they used sensor bars in arcades now!! So if Gyro is an acceptable method of doing FPS games, the IR Camera goes back to being.. dumb and worthless. Pht.
Ok so
SP3: 2 USB, 2 USB 3, Audio, MidiDisplay Port, over $100
Switch: 2 USB, 1 USB-C, HDMI port, under $100
I don't really.. see an issue here. The Switch has a couple less ports, and as such costs less but is still in a comparable ballpark?
Whether or not you can use the dock's USB ports for storage has no effect on the cost of the dock. It's not a hardware issue preventing that use.
Best option for some would be buy the AC Adapter and an additional USB-C to HDMI and then just move the dock around.
Well it depends on what's "acceptable". There's probably gonna be some drift without a fixed point of reference like a sensor bar so true line of sight aiming could be tricky to make consistent, but if gyro aiming with a cursor (no line of sight aiming) is considered good enough for whatever uses then it's not that big of a deal. Light gun games were hard to do line of sight aiming with on Wii to begin with cause the single sensor bar (easy to lose tracking when pointing to the opposite side of the TV) so I think it'd be ok.
But yeah the IR camera...I have no clue what to think of it. Even just from a technical perspective I'm curious what it sees cause if it can sense depth and shapes I'm wondering if it does some level of basic 3D mapping (a la Kinect and stuff) and what range it can actually see/sense stuff.
WordAssassin
Member
Given that the prices are "normal" for these kinds of docks, I think it's just sticker shock from people who have never seen them before and had no idea how much the cost. To the uninformed, the Dock looks like a plastic shell with a couple ports for $90 which is fucking crazy, but once you see what's in it and compare it to similar devices, and keep in mind there's some kind of chip in there to tell the Switch to go from Handheld Mode to upclocked Docked Mode, it makes sense. It's still a hard price to swallow though.
Oh wow, very interesting. So as long as there's a cursor/crosshair on screen gyro should be fine then? Might not be as good as, or piss off people who prefer, line of sight shooting but I guess if it works, it works?
And I don't remember where I read it but somewhere in all the commotion I saw the IR Camera's range is 2 feet. I'll try to figure it out, might have even been in the conference itself?
If it can "map" stuff I wonder if someone would ever make a game where you could construct a level on your table for a 2D platformer or something, scan it, and play it?
Could be a lot simpler than that. Something like power alone it could assume it's just hooked up to a battery pack and stay handheld mode. If it's power and video output connected, docked mode.
In theory you could hook up video output adapter without any power, but it'd probably just ignore that rather than going docked power and eating battery, or just outputting the lower quality video from handheld mode. Although also in theory either scenario could be allowed if they wanted to.
Yeah pretty much. It's more flexible since you can wave it around wherever, but you lose the hard fixed calibration point you get with a sensor bar.
I thought I heard something like that range too. It's just really a bizarre addition. Like even if it could do a bunch...it's still confusing cause placement if nothing else. I'm still interested just cause they probably have some game in the works that I'd never possibly imagine.
Well something more than sandwich eating and other mini games.
I'll say what I've been saying in other topics: the PS3 being $599 at launch made sense for what was in the console. That doesnt mean it made sense for the market. That's the problem people have.
It's not ridiculous for a consumer in the $250-300 console market to do a double take when being offered $100 accessories more suited to the more expensive on average laptop market. Besides there are USB C docks that are almost half the price of Nintendo's and you can get far more capable docks at about the price Nintendo is asking for.
At the very least they could have put an ethernet port on the thing.
AtomicShroom
Member
I don't understand the pricing of these things still.
If two joy-cons are $80, and the dock is $90, and let's say the included HDMI cable and AC adapters are worth $10, then that means the console itself is only worth $119, which is absolutely fucking ridiculous and impossible.
I understand that devices are cheaper when sold together, but not THAT cheaper. There's something seriously wrong here where Nintendo can sell this whole package for $299, but as soon as the items become separated, their price increases tenfold.
If two joy-cons are $80, and the dock is $90, and let's say the included HDMI cable and AC adapters are worth $10, then that means the console itself is only worth $119, which is absolutely fucking ridiculous and impossible.
I understand that devices are cheaper when sold together, but not THAT cheaper. There's something seriously wrong here where Nintendo can sell this whole package for $299, but as soon as the items become separated, their price increases tenfold.
elrechazado
Banned
It's a features for value paid issue however, so the point remains valid
Papacheeks
Banned
Oh shit? Really , so it;'s more them writing the OS to use USB storage?
That jesus is such a dumb oversight.
A upconverter can be had for 50$ for HD, and the fact as Matt pointed out that NIntendo did not have the foresight to make external storage available for these usb is literally ludicrous. And like people have mentioned Storage on a SD card is not a sure thing for long term storage.
A external would be preferred especially since there's a giant space under the switch dock to possibly fit one in there and leave it there.
SystemUser
Member
Here is one from Apple that costs $50. It does not include the USB-C wall plug though. Apple charges another $50-$80 for the wall charger.
The pricing is inline with Apple's pricing of accessories. You can get the Monoprice version for $30, but that also doesn't include the power plug for the wall. I am not sure how much power the Switch needs, but it looks like USB-C wall plugs are $20-$50 in general. Also I am new to USB-C so I would need to by another USB-C cable for $5-10. I guess the dock price is not a crazy as it seemed at first.
SerTapTap
Member
What bothers me the most is the Nintendo console is generally supposed to be the one you play with your friends. The Wario Ware crew usually has a game you can play with many friends with ONE controller.
Buying each of your friends a $70-$80 controller is nuts. Even considering they split in half that's still $40 (which you can buy an unopened last-revision Xbox one/ps4 controller for), and there's surely games you're going to need/want a full joycon/pro controller for each player.
The dock is nuts too. I'm not sure how valid the USB C argument is (much of the premium seems to me to be because USB C is new so only people with new fancy phones buy them, and people with new fancy phones have $$$). Could be wrong, but I was expecting half the price. Expect all kinds of whining that they should sell a dockless version, which I always thought would be a disaster. To me the whole pitch of Switch was play any game any which way and it all just works.
Finally, what is with the $50 single joycon? Who is that for. That's almost insulting. What if you accidentally buy two left halves? What are you going to do with the one half you can't put into a grip/whatever. Who is THAT sure they're only going to have exactly 3 players (but not two players needing two full joycons) they pay $50 for one instead of $80 for 2? I can't imagine it's worth making the extra SKU and extra confusion.
The mental load of this console is higher than I ever imagined after that first reveal. Everything is so expensive, so many options, turns out some games CAN only be played with joycons/can't be played with tablet mode. It doesn't feel like there was any focus.
Buying each of your friends a $70-$80 controller is nuts. Even considering they split in half that's still $40 (which you can buy an unopened last-revision Xbox one/ps4 controller for), and there's surely games you're going to need/want a full joycon/pro controller for each player.
The dock is nuts too. I'm not sure how valid the USB C argument is (much of the premium seems to me to be because USB C is new so only people with new fancy phones buy them, and people with new fancy phones have $$$). Could be wrong, but I was expecting half the price. Expect all kinds of whining that they should sell a dockless version, which I always thought would be a disaster. To me the whole pitch of Switch was play any game any which way and it all just works.
Finally, what is with the $50 single joycon? Who is that for. That's almost insulting. What if you accidentally buy two left halves? What are you going to do with the one half you can't put into a grip/whatever. Who is THAT sure they're only going to have exactly 3 players (but not two players needing two full joycons) they pay $50 for one instead of $80 for 2? I can't imagine it's worth making the extra SKU and extra confusion.
The mental load of this console is higher than I ever imagined after that first reveal. Everything is so expensive, so many options, turns out some games CAN only be played with joycons/can't be played with tablet mode. It doesn't feel like there was any focus.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
The single joycon skus are probably mostly for replacing one someone loses or breaks.
Oh it's not about foresight, it's a deliberate decision on their part.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it changed at some point.
Crayon
Member
Check out the big brains on foltzie.
MadJackChurchill
Banned
PadWarrior
You don't say lol.
Only going to be buying the Joy-Cons because four theoretical controllers for $80 isn't bad, and the neon colours look amazing...when matched.
PadWarrior
Member
Lol
PadWarrior
You don't say lol.
Only going to be buying the Joy-Cons because four theoretical controllers for $80 isn't bad, and the neon colours look amazing...when matched.
This reminds me I need someone to replace the Wii U pro controller with the switch one in my avatar.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Does the double joycon pack come with a grip or do you need to buy that separately?
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
It does not include a grip.
SomedayTheFire
Member
ah god. I'm trying to think if I want to get an extra set of joycons or a pro controller. I would mostly be playing local MP with my niece and nephew and they prefer playing with normal controllers than separated ones like the wii
darkazcura
Member
I don't think it is an oversight. More like they probably haven't figured out how to deal with the fact that if you play games off of an external HDD in docked mode, the game will obviously not work when you lift it out of the dock. It's pretty contradictory to the marketing of the Switch which is that you can easily pick up and go whenever you want. This is why everyone complaining about lack of storage has struck me as odd. There really isn't much else you can do with a hybrid solution.
One solution is to make the external purely a locker with no ability to play games off of it, which is probably what will happen one day if I had to guess. I don't think many people will have so many games in the first year that will warrant this type of use so Nintendo has time to work out the software for when the games library becomes larger and larger.
digita1alchemy
Member
Implementation aside, do we know if Switch even has the capability to read data via its connection to the dock?
darkazcura
Member
I think there was a thread about the dock being able to support external HDDs, but there isn't a software solution for it yet..I'd have to dig through the dozens of Switch threads, though.
Anyway, isn't connecting an external Ethernet to the dock a form of the Switch reading data from the dock's connection?
Okami Haundo
Member
I don't have a link to it off-hand, but someone definitely confirmed that the dock "can" support external hard drives. The issue seems to be Nintendo not providing a software solution for this method yet.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Just get a pro then. Only get joy cons if you think you want more than two player motion controlled games, are want to do 4 player MK or whatever with the joy cons as individual controllers.
Otherwise, the pro controller is $70 vs. $80 for a joycon pair plus $30 for the charger grip, or $15 for a third party non-charging grip (GameStop has some up).
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
They could/should just make HDD to dock just a storage solution. Put in a data management app and let people move games back and forth between the hard drive and internal storage/internal SD card.
Still an annoyance for the console-mode only folk who'd like to go digital and play off the HDD since they don't care about switching modes. But still preferable to having to re download things or juggle multiple SD cards once your library size gets larger IMO.
darkazcura
Member
Yeah I mentioned that in my follow up paragraph. I know there is a solution, but I don't think Nintendo wants to risk confusing the message, and I think they wanted to focus on getting the hardware and OS completely right from the start. Maybe its too conservative, but looking at the 2017 schedule, I think most digital users are going to get by fine on an additional 64GB or 128GB card which is $20-$45 generally. I feel like Nintendo will have a solution for data management when the games library starts to get larger, but that's just my opinion obviously.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I'm mostly with you there.
It will cost them some money though as I'll get things like MK8 and Splatoon 2 physically that were games/series I bought digitally on Wii U. Those pick up and play type of games are about the only thing I buy digitally on consoles.
But with limited storage and not wanting to shell out for an SD card after already having to pay for an overpriced $70 pro controller for my gaming preferences I'll buy nothing digital anytime soon.
So they lose some money their due to the retailer cut, shipping cost on physical games etc. And they'll lose a potential sale down the road as I don't collect physical games so I'll probably sell/trade them when I've lost interest. Maybe not MK as those games are infinitely replayable (until a sequel or Diddy Kong Racing or whatever takes its place). Splatoon I got sick of after a couple of months and expect the same again.
We dont need to go too far down the rabbit hole to get to basic data support. It would be highly unlikely to put USB on the dock and not have it support the USB data lines. The ethernet adapter support really closes the door on any technical concerns.
The issues would be maters of practicality. External HDD based games would crash when Switch was removed from the dock.
So the Switch would have to copy the game over to internal memory at boot, which would be like installing the game ever time you boot it.
I love cheap external hard drives, but heck with my Wii U I used a USB stick for one port and size simplicity. You could have multiple microSD cards for a reasonable price. Not the best price per GB, but the physical size can't be beat.
No, they just want you to buy the console itself. They inflate the price perception with accessories, but every hardware producer does that. A 360 controller is never worth $50 to begin with. Just like the Vita Memory Cards are not worth their price (they're like 10 times as expensive as normal SD cards).
So I just wonder: why would you need a second dock? Everything you need for gameplay is inside the box already. The only additional things you might need are:
- A pro controller
- 2 joycons + (charging) grip
If you have a second TV somewhere and really want to not move the dock along, then I'll get your point. But how many of us really run into that problem? Especially since the Switch can be used everywhere?
con-ca-te-nate
Member
My only grip is why they put two different colored joycons on the system. I would love a neon-blue only joycons god dangit. 
Okami Haundo
Member
I definitely agree! Micro SD seems to be the way to go for speed and practicality. External drives would only really work if Nintendo invested in making the transfer process quick and painless. Even then, games with larger file sizes could be a pain. I don't personally expect to see this option at any point in the near future.
I just hope Micro SD card prices change sometime soon. I'd like to buy a 256 or even 512Gb card for a reasonable price and just not have to worry for a bit. In the meantime, I'll probably just grab a 128Gb card and use it primarily for smaller games.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I don't have a use for it as I only game in my mancave, don't have kids etc.
But I can easily see why others would want a second dock.
Easy moving between a main area TV for the kids/families to use or during parties and the gaming room/media room/mancave/whatever where the Gaffer does their gaming.
Use at multiple households. Lots of uses there, people that go back home regularly and want to game with parents/siblings, divorced families where they want the kids they share custody of to be able to bring their switch along without having to unhook the dock everytime.
Specfic uses for sure, but it's the same problem with people not seeing why not having the charger grip attached is such an annoyance for some. People to easily dismiss other's usages and needs when they don't mirror their own.
No charger grip is no problem for someone who'll regularly switch and/or have the dock easily accessible. But it's a kick in the nuts to the console only gamer who's already annoyed that they have to buy this hybrid device to play Nintendo games when they'll never use the tablet an would like to stick it back in a shelf in their tv cabinet out of site--but have to buy a $30 charger grip to do that as otherwise its a pain to regularly get to the tablet to charge joycons.
$90 dock is absurdly priced, but most don't care as they have no use to have it docked to more than one TV. But it stings for a divorced parent wanting his children to be able to easily play switch on TV at both mom and dad's house. Or the family saving to buy one who'd like to easily be able to move it between the big screen in the living room to a secondary TV so their kids can play when they want without causing fights over a TV.
Just takes a little thinking outside your box and some empathy to see why thing that don't negatively affect us can be bigger issues for others.
FWIW, from reading press impressions from Switch demos, it sounds like many/most people actually prefer using Joycons in the Joycon holder over using the Pro Controller. One article I read said there's even a screen at the start of Zelda that recommends you use Joycons instead of the Pro Controller.