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IMF "experts" finally admit they screwed over Greece
- Thread starter TheLaughingStock
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NeOak
Member
When you stand to gain a lot.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
the definition of 'mistake' doesnt actually include the words 'on purpose'
George Washington
Member
This.
Where in the article does it mention that these mistakes were on purpose / intentional?
In fact, the article goes on to say:
-The report is candid on a significant number of mistakes.
-Two critical mistakes are not mentioned. The first one is technical.
Edit:
The IMF did mess up with Greece but insinuating that it was intentional and not just some mistake requires evidence. The IMF's actions seem incompetent more than anything else.
I still find it hilarious in hindsight how demonized Greeks then finance minister Varoufakis was for simply, and eloquently pointing this out. Especially the usually on-tone German press totally lost their shit at the time.
History will not be kind to those involved in this, especially the dumb ass "austerity" stuff that was pushed down their throat.
History will not be kind to those involved in this, especially the dumb ass "austerity" stuff that was pushed down their throat.
Portugal since giving the middle finger to the austerity hawks, have been doing fine. The economy is throttling up, unemployment is lowering, deficit this past year was the lowest ever since Portugal became a democracy and people seem to find new hope. But correct the problems left by austerity will take years.
Varoufakis is one of the most entertaining and intelligent interview subjects ever. Makes an ostensibly dull subject resonate.
Kill Your Masters
Member
Cocaine, the drug of choice for bankers, makes you overconfident.
Giant Panda
Member
I really hope people don't take this as Greece solely being a victim. Their stupid policies are why they were in that mess.
Germany wanted no debt forgiveness iirc.
The IMF have been the most dove-ish member of the troika towards Greece for quite a long time now. Since 2010 I think there has been a real rethink of their entire approach. Not just because of Greece but also their handling of things like the 1997 Asian financial crisis too.
Regardless, it is worth remembering that the IMF is only part of the story. What shouldn't be forgotten is that it was european structures and institutions which caused the crisis and then perpetuated it.
Regardless, it is worth remembering that the IMF is only part of the story. What shouldn't be forgotten is that it was european structures and institutions which caused the crisis and then perpetuated it.
Coriolanus
Banned
Adopting the euro is why they were in that mess.
The IMF has been calling for debt cuts, lower primary surplusses and such for a while now but the other parts of the troika talked them down from it. I wish Schäuble was capable of introspection like that.
No idea what to do about Greece. Getting them off the Euro might theoretically help but not as long as the debt is in Euro. And forced conversion to drachma is pretty similar to a default.
No idea what to do about Greece. Getting them off the Euro might theoretically help but not as long as the debt is in Euro. And forced conversion to drachma is pretty similar to a default.
True Savior
Member
They already said the same about Portugal.
Fuck imf and any supporter of austerity opression over europeans.
Fuck imf and any supporter of austerity opression over europeans.
Vlodril
Member
The imf is at fault for trying to apply a recipy that had failed before and was obviously still failing. still on the troika part they were probably the more sane. Fuck Schäuble since he is responsible for a lot of what has happened to greece (and to europe).
Kite
Member
lol OP is being misleading, on purpose? IMF admitted they fucked up, nothing more.
Coriolanus
Banned
Ah...sorta. Schauble did exactly what was expected of him. With the kerfuffle in 2015, most of the blame really lies with Tsipras, whose fecklessness was most fascinating.
Unfortunately what was expected of him by the German electorate was to punish debtors and reward savers. Not to fix Greece but to punish them for their dishonesty and excessive spending. Reports about the suffering of the people there weren't nearly as common as worries abut "our money".
What? The only mistake was letting the failing country that is Greece in in the first place and then they should have just cut them out.
If Merkel and Schäuble would have followed the german electorate Greece would have defaulted and left the EZ in 2013 and 2015. Majority of germans were against the bailouts.
Yeah but that happened so what do you do now? Just saying "this shouldn't have happened" doesn't fix the problem.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Wait..... who hasn't the IMF screwed? Like really what country have they "helped" out of poverty? That then stayed out of poverty while paying the IMF off.
At this point? No idea. Would have to look more into the current situation but as I will just be pissed again, I won't do that.
Also, screw Draghi and the others.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
This must be like the 4th or 5th time in 7 years their research wing has come to the same conclusion.
Too bad people most of the people with power inside the IMF aren't willing to act on any of this.
Too bad people most of the people with power inside the IMF aren't willing to act on any of this.
I feel like it's diminished Germany's hand in Europe a bit (or would have, if not for Trump following soon after). While Greece and Italy used to look strongly to Germany, now they are closer to France because of a less punitive position on debt. Ordoliberalism is a good doctrine in general, but Germany's taken it too far.
Germany needs to back the fuck off when it comes to other countries affairs.
Coriolanus
Banned
which would've probably been better for all parties in the long term (banks excepted).
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
The IMF has been consistently screwing countries for decades though. This is nothing new.
They can admit this, they will however still screw Greece over as it is not getting a resettlement from them.
They however don't lead by example. They are calling on the EU to cut Greek debts.
They however don't lead by example. They are calling on the EU to cut Greek debts.
I still think that is a very fragile grow that might crumble with rhe first financial instability, but it has been great to see and shows that austerity never brings progress.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
This. It was obvious to anyone paying attention at the time what was going on.
Frankfurter
Member
The debt cut is there anyway, just not in the way the IMF wants it to happen (i.e. zero percent bonds vs. a direct cut).
On the primary surplus part, yeah that's just Germany and a couple others being stupid. I think the demand still is 3.5%?
Exactly, you have to work really hard to get things as wrong as the IMF does as constantly as it does. Whether its on purpose, or selective delusions.
Its amazing, you can have an institute like this in our so called enlightened ago of science, but then thats economics for ya.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Their research wing is the one releasing most of these reports admitting this. Nobody is bound by any of it.
Their political wing that makes decision of course ignores everything since its more interested in saving a few political careers in Europe than it is in listening to reason.
Now the IMF may have another Argentina on it hands and all because they ignored any of the lessons learned there. The European members of the fund in their arrogance decided transferring all the burden of losses from their banks to Greece by not allowing any debt cut before the bailout was a good idea and the IMF was all to happy to ignore its Argentina clause that disallowed that because GSK was looking to further his political career by bringing the fund out of irrelevance.
Now Greece is stuck in limbo and there is no obvious end to the bailouts.
I agree.
In the end it's gonna be either a massive debt cut (which is basically political suicide in the north, even with a SPD chancellor in germany it would be) or default (which is basically political suicide in Greece).
But we all know it's gonna be some half assed solution for the next 2 years until the next bailout will be needed.
andythinkpad
Member
Who doesn't IMF screw over though? IMF screw over every Soith American country.
BTW Greece could have been first one leave EU amd Euro, instead they will be the last one out. Not wise move.
BTW Greece could have been first one leave EU amd Euro, instead they will be the last one out. Not wise move.
🤷 ¯_(ツ
_/¯Yep, it's good to keep Hanlon's Razor in mind: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." I think the IMF released a report in the last year or two where they admitted that austerity seems to slow economic growth. Guess they finally learnt the obvious
Corruption and tax avoidance is probably more to blame.
There was a huge amount of bullshit in the press at the time, but there were fundamental issue with the Greek economy that writing off a load of debt wasn't going to fix. And the Greeks didn't seem to do themselves any favours either at the time.
Same in Ireland; we fucked up. The books couldn't balance. There were massive outside pressures them from the German's/EU banks to handle it a certain way, etc.
There are loads of lessons to learn, but the EU as a whole went into panic mode.
nice to hear
Make Greece more like Germany, ie less corruption and tax evasion and you wouldn't have much of a problem even with the euro.
Im not saying austerity is good, but that debt restructuring should come with strict demands to reforms in a country seem obvious to me and the more German influence Greece has in terms of running the country the better.
Switch back to drachme and the country would not necessarily perform much better since reforms would just be curtailed by a weakening currency.
Im not saying austerity is good, but that debt restructuring should come with strict demands to reforms in a country seem obvious to me and the more German influence Greece has in terms of running the country the better.
Switch back to drachme and the country would not necessarily perform much better since reforms would just be curtailed by a weakening currency.
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