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[dark10x]

This is actually kinda sickening to watch...

Digital Foundry needs to become an actual board of quality control, like how every game needs to be submitted to the ESRB/like authorities for rating before it can be sold at retail. Does your game run badly/is plagued with a host of errors and bugs? It should say that on the box at the point of sale. Just like the age rating.

Sick of having to sell janky, broken games and pretending that they're the next coming of Christ. That should fix boneheaded decisions such as these, to ship a patch that ruins your experience, or a game that should have been finalised and optimised months before hitting the shelves.

Heh, well, Tom used to work QA before DF...

...but really, we're not QA and don't really want to be. The QA process is super complex and detailed beyond the scope of what we're looking at. That said, I do wish this type of problem didn't slip through so often.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Jesus, that framerate graph is jagged like a saw blade. There's something seriously wrong there.

The one ray of sunshine - and without wanting to port-beg too much - is that when it does hit 60fps, the framepacing seems fine, so any future PC version should be okay (and not the unavoidably hitching messes the FFXIII ports were).

 

[UpUpDownDown]

This is actually kinda sickening to watch...

Digital Foundry needs to become an actual board of quality control, like how every game needs to be submitted to the ESRB/like authorities for rating before it can be sold at retail. Does your game run badly/is plagued with a host of errors and bugs? It should say that on the box at the point of sale. Just like the age rating.

Sick of having to sell janky, broken games and pretending that they're the next coming of Christ. That should fix boneheaded decisions such as these, to ship a patch that ruins your experience, or a game that should have been finalised and optimised months before hitting the shelves.

Don't fucking buy the game then?

 

[Toth]

This is actually kinda sickening to watch...

Digital Foundry needs to become an actual board of quality control, like how every game needs to be submitted to the ESRB/like authorities for rating before it can be sold at retail. Does your game run badly/is plagued with a host of errors and bugs? It should say that on the box at the point of sale. Just like the age rating.

Sick of having to sell janky, broken games and pretending that they're the next coming of Christ. That should fix boneheaded decisions such as these, to ship a patch that ruins your experience, or a game that should have been finalised and optimised months before hitting the shelves.

The game runs just fine though....you only notice these things if you actively look for them. I never experienced slowdown or 'broken frame rates' in 90+ hours of playing High mode on the PS4 Pro.

The vast majority of consumers do not care about frame rates over 30.

 

[Vexii]

Heh, well, Tom used to work QA before DF...

...but really, we're not QA and don't really want to be. The QA process is super complex and detailed beyond the scope of what we're looking at. That said, I do wish this type of problem didn't slip through so often.

Aaah I know, it's way too much to ask of you guys beyond the work you already do. You're fine as you are, I just really wish some devs would look at the praise you give to technically marvelous games and think to themselves "this is what we need to aim for."

And with you guys branching out into technical analysis and narrating your thoughts on the performance and tech behind games, I was actually hoping that this is where we were already headed.

And then The Last of Us dropped SS support for 1080p screens. And now this. It's a damn shame.

 

[Vexii]

The game runs just fine though....you only notice these things if you actively look for them. I never experienced slowdown or 'broken frame rates' in 90+ hours of playing High mode on the PS4 Pro.

The vast majority of consumers do not care about frame rates over 30.

It used to be that I didn't notice uncapped frame rates or bad frame pacing, but over the last 2 years of watching DF content, it's beaten that ignorance out of me and it's quickly becoming the first thing I notice.

And believe me, I used to be one of the dudes who would argue against 60fps being the norm. Now I'm not too fussed, but if you can't handle a flat 30fps in your games when you're pretty much already there minus some frame-time fixing, and most other devs can be bothered to put the extra care in, I don't think you have much business... Well, being in business.

Don't fucking buy the game then?

I already did. And sold it, long before this bullshit update broke it again, so I don't really get your point.

I think the amount of people who actually want a setting that fluctuates between 60 and 30 so wildly is so low that it isn't even worth mentioning. It must be even lower when you consider the PS Pro is a premium model and a lot of us want better performance too.

And this. What we were given was not a Pro update in any way, shape or form. The whole point of getting the more powerful hardware is to eliminate framerate issues.

 

[GametimeUK]

I know in the video they say people may enjoy the unlocked framerate, but I think I'm going to disagree. Anyone who puts up with an unlocked framerate on console probably does so because that's just how the game is made and they don't pay any attention to framerates. I think the amount of people who actually want a setting that fluctuates between 60 and 30 so wildly is so low that it isn't even worth mentioning. It must be even lower when you consider the PS Pro is a premium model and a lot of us want better performance too.

I think it's just a case of give the community what they are asking for. If you can't do that then fair enough. Surely they knew a locked 30 is far more desirable from us Pro owners.

 

[Ferr986]

The game runs just fine though....you only notice these things if you actively look for them. I never experienced slowdown or 'broken frame rates' in 90+ hours of playing High mode on the PS4 Pro.

The vast majority of consumers do not care about frame rates over 30.

Do you really think I'm looking to see flaws when playing?

No, it's not a dealbreaker enough to sell a game, but I noticed framepacing problems without anyone telling me with Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 or FFXV.

Really, I'm not looking for it and I'm happy that some of you guys don't notice it, but I do.
I noticed the framepacing with the FFXV Judgement demo before DF even pointed at it, and that was base PS4 that had lesser framepacing. That's why I played 120 hours in Lite mode (well, 11:30, probably tried to play 30 mins or so in HQ mode before bailing out).
Same as how I noticed it with the Dark Souls 3 beta when there wasn't also a DF article.

Some people notice it more than others, same as how some people gets crazy with downsampling while I barely notice shit, that doesn't mean I'm on the right thinking it does almost nothing. I just don't notice the sharper image as much as others. Framerate plays exactly the same.

Again, it's not a dealbreaker enough, I have +300 hours in Bloodborne and +200 in Dark Souls 3 and these are a mess of framepacing problems. But it bothers me and I wish devs would be more careful with it.

 

[Cyriades]

Cap it at 48fps. That's a multiple of 24 frames

 

[belvedere]

This game is only perpetuating the myth that unlocked framerates are bad 100% of the time. FFXV is already a choppy, jittery mess with tons of frame pacing problems so that appears to only exaggerate the issue.

Unlocked framerates aren't always a bad thing. Wildly varying, dramatic drops in frames are a bad thing. There's plenty of game engines capable of more consistent frame rates.

 

[SlimySnake]

How can these guys be so clueless. First framepacing issues on the Enhanced version and now after we all switch to the Lite version they ruin that as well.

Maybe it's a cultural thing?

 

[Vexii]

This game is only perpetuating the myth that unlocked framerates are bad 100% of the time. FFXV is already a choppy, jittery mess with tons of frame pacing problems so that appears to only exaggerate the issue.

Unlocked framerates aren't always a bad thing. Wildly varying, dramatic drops in frames are a bad thing. There's plenty of game engines capable of more consistent frame rates.

40fps at a 60hz refresh rate will always mean that 1/3rd of frames will take longer to refresh than the other 2/3rds. This will always cause a visible hitching, ruining what should be a smoother presentation than a locked 30fps cap.

This is why an unlocked frame rate is almost always a bad thing.

 

[Broadbandito]

How can these guys be so clueless. First framepacing issues on the Enhanced version and now after we all switch to the Lite version they ruin that as well.

Maybe it's a cultural thing?

different strokes for different folks. I welcome the variable unlocked framerate. I'm sure there will be improvements over the next year as well.

 

[Dunkley]

I honestly was just hoping down the line they'd employ the adaptive Vsync solution found on the Xbox One as an option to fix the frame pacing.

Unless there is some inherent reason which makes it harder to implement that on Sony's platform.

 

[Mindman]

Time to sell the PS4 version and wait for the PC version in its complete state for a second playthrough. Not gonna deal with jittery performance with no options to fix it. Such a shame. Just should have kept Lite mode the way it was and added this one called "Unlocked" mode. ;\

 

[Toth]

Do you really think I'm looking to see flaws when playing?

No, it's not a dealbreaker enough to sell a game, but I noticed framepacing problems without anyone telling me with Bloodborne, Dark Souls 3 or FFXV.

Really, I'm not looking for it and I'm happy that some of you guys don't notice it, but I do.
I noticed the framepacing with the FFXV Judgement demo before DF even pointed at it, and that was base PS4 that had lesser framepacing. That's why I played 120 hours in Lite mode (well, 11:30, probably tried to play 30 mins or so in HQ mode before bailing out).
Same as how I noticed it with the Dark Souls 3 beta when there wasn't also a DF article.

Some people notice it more than others, same as how some people gets crazy with downsampling while I barely notice shit, that doesn't mean I'm on the right thinking it does almost nothing. I just don't notice the sharper image as much as others. Framerate plays exactly the same.

Again, it's not a dealbreaker enough, I have +300 hours in Bloodborne and +200 in Dark Souls 3 and these are a mess of framepacing problems. But it bothers me and I wish devs would be more careful with it.

What I am trying to say is that the majority do not really care about varying frame rates. Give me a fully playable game that doesn't run like a slug and they are fine. I never noticed anything game breaking with BB either. More FPS is always nice but I think it's very easy to overstate its importance to the average consumer.

 

[BRocknRolla]

So apparently I made a big mistake in waiting for this patch to continue playing. Yeah... I think I'm done with the FF series.

 

[Poppyseed]

Cap it at 48fps. That's a multiple of 24 frames

Huh? That would do no good at all. I don't think you understand how monitors and refresh rates work. A cap, firstly - is not always a good thing unless the frame rate hits that cap at all times. FFXV doesn't hit 48fps at all times. And second, most TVs and monitors run at 60hz, so a 48hz lock would run terribly on these display devices.

This patch is a joke. Glad I beat the game before the release of this downgrade.

 

[Tyaren]

Lol, they fucked it up. Oh Square Enix...

That being said, I luckily don't notice framepacing and I will keep playing the game in the visually stunning HQ mode. Even if the Lite mode would've run in a locked 60fps I probably wouldn't have switched to it.

 

[Poppyseed]

So apparently I made a big mistake in waiting for this patch to continue playing. Yeah... I think I'm done with the FF series.

I don't blame you. I tried the HQ mode when the game came out and couldn't stand more than 60 seconds before switching to Lite Mode. Now that this option has been stripped, I'd just abandon the game personally, if I hadn't beaten it already.

 

[xion4360]

dont get why this sucks isnt more obvious to the developers..just fucking give us a lock 30fps option with lite, or fix the damn framepacing on high.

well at least this keeps me from having to choose how to play the game. HIGH is the only option... performance wise it ends up being a stuttery mess eitherway, but at least with high you get better resolution, filtering and the cloth physics dont look off.

 

[WickedLaharl]

The people working on this games technical aspects are completely incompetent and must be implementing changes with no external feedback.

 

[BRocknRolla]

I don't blame you. I tried the HQ mode when the game came out and couldn't stand more than 60 seconds before switching to Lite Mode. Now that this option has been stripped, I'd just abandon the game personally, if I hadn't beaten it already.

Frame pacing and occassional frame drops in general aren't huge issues for me (Bloodborne for example never caused me any pain in that regard), but FFXV is on another level. I am almost always the sort of person who chooses visual fidelity over increased fps as well, so the HQ mode seemed like a no-brainer until I actually tried to play it. I was totally unable to ignore the frame pacing or get used to it. Lite mode was a huge drop in IQ, but it was much easier on my eyes. And now I have no option but to embrace the frame pacing issues? Seriously, I didn't think they'd necessarily fix the HQ mode, but I never expected them to break the lite mode.

 

[belvedere]

40fps at a 60hz refresh rate will always mean that 1/3rd of frames will take longer to refresh than the other 2/3rds. This will always cause a visible hitching, ruining what should be a smoother presentation than a locked 30fps cap.

This is why an unlocked frame rate is almost always a bad thing.

In that example, sure. The sweet spot referenced in an Ars article from years ago was 48 FPS, IIRC. If the framerate can consistently stay at 48fps or higher, jitter is much less noticeable at 60hz. Dramatic frame drops are what's truly jarring for many people, and seems to be confused with jitter quite often for whatever reason.

I guess the real question is, will the Pro's spec boost over PS4 allow for that consistency?

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Jesus Christ. This is the patch I've been waiting for?

Guess I'm holding out for the PC version.

Weren't a lot of people here holding off buying FFXV because they were waiting for stable performance from this patch?

I pre-ordered the damn game and noped out of it after three hours because this patch was promised for December. I was hoping that they'd at least fix the frame pacing if the Lite mode wasn't up to snuff. There's absolutely no way in hell I'd subject myself to a full playthrough with the game in this state.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

The unlocked frame rate works well enough from what I tested so ehhhhh... not bothered by it in the least bit. It averages out at 45-50 for the most part and feels like a step up from locked 30.

What doesn't work though is the fact that it feels clear from the onset that the game was designed for 30 fps based on how the animations play, and how the combat works out in the end. Parrying attacks with a short frame of reference is much harder now e.g Cactaurs. The battle looks like it plays in a fast way and definitely needed to be tweaked to work better here. Not to mention scrolling around on the world map is also faster now, which makes for some uneven experience. But all said, I think this unlocked mode should work well during some of the more mundane tasks like fishing.

 

[randomusername]

Thank god I'm not bothered by the 'huge' variable framerate. I'm actually enjoying the heck out of the new patch and gone back to the game. Just throw in a 30 fps lock for those bothered and everyone wins

 

[Jashobeam]

Thank god I'm not bothered by the 'huge' variable framerate. I'm actually enjoying the heck out of the new patch and gone back to the game. Just throw in a 30 fps lock for those bothered and everyone wins

yup the game is more responsive, its a world of difference to me. I can warp in the air with a single button press, before the patch I had to mash on triangle to get Noctis to warp in the air, now its instant. The battles are so much smoother to play now. I stopped at chapter 6 around December and now I'm happy to finish the game with the way it is, glad I waited.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Thank god I'm not bothered by the 'huge' variable framerate. I'm actually enjoying the heck out of the new patch and gone back to the game. Just throw in a 30 fps lock for those bothered and everyone wins

I have to agree a 30 fps lock is absolutely needed here on lite mode so that all bases are covered. I wouldn't consider this a downgrade in any way and i hope se doesn't remove it altogether.

It reminds me of TLOU fiasco where a few dropped frames made people so angry that Naughty Dog removed supersampling altogether from Pro in 60 fps mode, which was a shame.

 

[Vexii]

In that example, sure. The sweet spot referenced in an Ars article from years ago was 48 FPS, IIRC. If the framerate can consistently stay at 48fps or higher, jitter is much less noticeable at 60hz. Dramatic frame drops are what's truly jarring for many people, and seems to be confused with jitter quite often for whatever reason.

I guess the real question is, will the Pro's spec boost over PS4 allow for that consistency?

Unfortunately from what I'm seeing, no, that's definitely not the case.

Honestly. Why was this change even necessary? And why did it have to be all or nothing? It's just terrible, terrible practice.

 

[Fluffhead14]

i got through the performance issues, but i really wish they'd just make the ACTION BUTTON DIFFERENT THAN THE JUMP BUTTON. Good lord.

also, let's make the jump button different when riding a chocobo for literally no reason.

i have such a love/hate with this game. pretty cool story that inexplicably leaves out portions of the narrative. pretty cool open world that inexplicably has terrible fetch quests and wastes large swaths of its map. pretty cool battle system overall that inexplicably has the worst camera work i've maybe seen in a game.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Think I will stick with High Quality mode, now if only they could sort out the frame pacing on PS4, like they have on XB1.

 

[Marmelade]

I have to agree a 30 fps lock is absolutely needed here on lite mode so that all bases are covered. I wouldn't consider this a downgrade in any way and i hope se doesn't remove it altogether.

It reminds me of TLOU fiasco where a few dropped frames made people so angry that Naughty Dog removed supersampling altogether from Pro in 60 fps mode, which was a shame.

They still don't offer downsampling to 1080p Pro users even after improving the frame rate...

 

[jxN3]

Got the game as a gift, it's been sitting sealed for a while now. I was waiting for the updated Pro patch, added cut-scenes and story stuff to get the best experience possible..

What a freaking bummer this news is...

 

[Peroroncino]

Wow... I feel a bit sorry for people who were waiting for this patch before starting the game.

 

[Backfoggen]

Does this mean the game defaults to the variable fps mode on the Pro? That's messed.

 

[adamsapple]

Yikes, saw this video right after the Horizon video. What a huge 180.

Extremely disappointed they still haven't addresses the frame pacing but I've seen enough people comment on how it's not really that big of an issue if you don't notice it (that's me), so whenever I play this (still have my copy shrink wrapped), I'll prefer the higher quality visuals.

 

[thelastword]

DF is the last word on console tech performance imo. I completely ignore the other console tech analysis sites because usually the leave out stuff and their tools aren't as good.

Is this post attempting sarcasm? The other tech sites are pretty good and have discovered many things DF weren't even close to discovering...I suspect you have not been following or you're just blindsided by DF for some reason.

This is actually kinda sickening to watch...

Digital Foundry needs to become an actual board of quality control, like how every game needs to be submitted to the ESRB/like authorities for rating before it can be sold at retail. Does your game run badly/is plagued with a host of errors and bugs? It should say that on the box at the point of sale. Just like the age rating.

Sick of having to sell janky, broken games and pretending that they're the next coming of Christ. That should fix boneheaded decisions such as these, to ship a patch that ruins your experience, or a game that should have been finalised and optimised months before hitting the shelves.

You know how many of you have played variable framerate games and though it was all smooth 60fps.....Hell, some people played 15fps N64 games in the past and called it the greatest game they ever played....However N64 days was way back then, recently, on the 360, we played many games that was not close to a locked 60fps but we all felt was better in terms of response than 30fps games....Interesting how times have changed...

I'm not saying what we have here is an ideal 60fps experience, it's more 45fps than 60fps and of course we expected better from Square, but it's still better for movement, traversal and battle over 30fps...I do agree that they should not have taken the 30fps capped lite mode out though and wish they had used some time to first and foremost get rid of the framepacing even though it introduced a tad more input lag into the equation.......As it stands, they should probably allow soft vsync on the PS4/PRO versions, they would reduce or eliminate framepacing on the high mode and even heighten the framerate in the unlocked lite mode as it currently stands. I think that would be a nice balance....

yup the game is more responsive, its a world of difference to me. I can warp in the air with a single button press, before the patch I had to mash on triangle to get Noctis to warp in the air, now its instant. The battles are so much smoother to play now. I stopped at chapter 6 around December and now I'm happy to finish the game with the way it is, glad I waited.

It hardly reaches 60fps through normal play and I expected a bit more, but it is indeed better for controller response as it is......Just like how I preferred Shadowfall and ISS unlocked, this is even more preferable since it's an RPG....I do wish they didn't lock out the "30fps capped" guys out though, they needed to keep a capped lite mode in as well.... I suspect that they felt the high mode is already capped at 30fps so they'll just make the lite mode the high framerate mode...which suggests that they may not even be aware of a framepacing issue in their game....Hmmm!........

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Yikes, saw this video right after the Horizon video. What a huge 180.

Extremely disappointed they still haven't addresses the frame pacing but I've seen enough people comment on how it's not really that big of an issue if you don't notice it (that's me), so whenever I play this (still have my copy shrink wrapped), I'll prefer the higher quality visuals.

Out of curiousity, what was the last game that you played with frame pacing issues?

 

[dark10x]

Is this post attempting sarcasm? The other tech sites are pretty good and have discovered many things DF weren't even close to discovering...I suspect you have not been following or you're just blindsided by DF for some reason.

Could this guy be anymore of a jerk? Good lord.

 

[AEREC]

So is lite mode no longer a locked 30 fps? I enjoyed the game in lite mode with the stable framerate...is that no longer an option?

 

[longlivegaming]

So is lite mode no longer a locked 30 fps? I enjoyed the game in lite mode with the stable framerate...is that no longer an option?

Should be fine if you avoid installing the patch.

 

[Peroroncino]

So is lite mode no longer a locked 30 fps? I enjoyed the game in lite mode with the stable framerate...is that no longer an option?

Nope, currently only high mode offers locked 30 but with a very annoying framepacing.

 

[jrcbandit]

I waited to play FF15 for this disappointing patch.... I guess I can keep waiting now for the March patch and someday cutscene patch since it's obvious the frame pacing will never be fixed in high mode and the "60 fps" mode is a crappy 40-50 fps mode.

 

[Elios83]

For me overall the game feels much more fluid than at 30fps also I've noticed that the image looks cleaner than before in lite mode.
Still it's disappointing that that they couldn't do anything for the stuttering and the promise of 60fps was pretty much broken as this is closer to uncapped frame rate.

 

[AEREC]

Should be fine if you avoid installing the patch.

Too late...I got the notification it was installed while playing For Honor.

Nope, currently only high mode offers locked 30 but with a very annoying framepacing.

Wow...who thought this was a good idea? I enjoyed the game the way it was. Hopefully they add a 30fps lock before the DLC releases.

 

[Darkman M]

Typical square enix

 

[Heartfyre]

Really love the update, but I've never understood why some people are so opposed to variable frame rates. It's obviously not ideal, but it's a damn sight better than a locked 30. The game feels much smoother at the higher frame rate now, having played through the game already and gotten used to 30FPS.

 

[dark10x]

Really love the update, but I've never understood why some people are so opposed to variable frame rates. It's obviously not ideal, but it's a damn sight better than a locked 30. The game feels much smoother at the higher frame rate now, having played through the game already and gotten used to 30FPS.

It's extremely bothersome to my eyes. Cannot stand the judder. It simply looks awful to me.

Frames persist on screen for varying lengths of time and I can clearly see it while playing. It just makes the game feel unpolished and janky to me.

 

[jwhit28]

Console gaming has gotten so ridiculous. Why would they replace the settings they already had instead of just giving people more options? I don't want to hear that it's for simplicity's sake when there are multiple youtube channels dedicated to figuring out what these settings actually do. I hope Microsoft sees this mess and just ask publishers to use PC style graphics settings for Scorpio.