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[boiled goose]

The facts:

White voters make up 71% of total voters.
White Evangelical Voters are a significant 26% of total voters.
What is the turnout rate for this demographic? A whopping 85% turnout rate.
What was the Trump-Clinton Spit in this demographic? 80% to 16%

Source:
https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/11/data-shows-a-downward-demographic-spiral-for-republicans/

Now here is my interpretation.

Did racism play a role? Yes
Did sexism? Yes
Did frustration with government? Yes
Did frustration with growing wealth inequality? Yes
Did Hillary make mistakes? Yes

However, I would argue that if people were voting rationally, very few could justify voting for Trump over Clinton for many of their stated issues. You care about Clinton's conflicts of interest, pay to play, corruption, etc.? OK I hear you, but it was plain to see Trump would be worse. Spoiler: he was.
Do they care about honesty? Trump was proven time and time again to be a huge liar and a con man.
Do you care about the economy or healthcare? Obama and Clinton not remotely perfect, but Trump would be worse. The man is an incompetent buffoon.
Do you care about national security? Incompetent buffoon
If you are openly racist or sexist at this point in history you clearly haven't thought things through either.
Do they care about "family values"? Trump and family values???

Why is it that these voters could hold contradictory positions? Why is it that they could vote against their own interests when it's so obvious to anyone else? Why are they racist or sexist in today's modern age? Why do they have so much fear of the other despite facts challenging their preconceptions? Why can they claim to value family values, but then show extreme double standards for a man who admitted to sexually assaulting women, committed adultery, has multiple divorces?

Why?
Because they have been trained to not think rationally and to not care about facts. They have been trained that personal beliefs are more important than reality. They have been trained that if you believe something hard enough, it somehow becomes real. They have been trained to hold contradictory views, make excuses, have double standards, use mental gymnastics to hold onto precious personal views.

This is why you can't entirely fight back with facts or evidence or reason.

You have to teach people to be able to evaluate what is real and what isn't. You have to create a society that values reason, facts, and evidence. This is not the case currently in the US.

If we live in a society where people can exempt a precious thing called religion from basic scrutiny, why can't people do the same for political views?

 

[madstarr12]

People simply cared more about "shaking up" the system more than anything else. Overall, Clinton was seen as having a better temperament, better for foreign policy, better for the economy, someone who "cared" about the everyday citizen, and more experienced. But none of that was important for them, they just wanted "change", they didn't care how they got it, they just wanted it. Many of them are happy with the change that's happening, but plenty are upset about it, which begs the question: Why did these people vote for Trump, hoping that he was lying?

Ignorance also played a big part, selfishness was also a factor.

 

[Extollere]

I don't think this is entirely unrelated, but there was a pretty good read about why facts don't change people's minds in the New Yorker recently. Thought it was interesting.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

 

[Air]

I'm shocked. Shocked!

 

[PKrockin]

Well from my own experience I've spoken to many white Christians who think they are the most persecuted group in the US. The Bible tells them they will be persecuted, so they must be. So any accusations of racism and sexism fall on deaf ears, because if it's not that bad for them, it can't be that bad for black people.

If you ask me, the deciding factor was the large proportion of undecideds last election, and they were probably swayed last minute by the last major news story right before the election being that bullshit letter from Comey.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I mean, this isn't really anything new at the end of day.

 

[xxracerxx]

Single issue voters are the fucking worst.

 

[Team Filler]

White voters make up 71% of total voters.
White Evangelical Voters are a significant 26% of total voters.
What is the turnout rate for this demographic? A whopping 85% turnout rate.
What was the Trump-Clinton Spit in this demographic? 80% to 16%

I know it's not fair to paint such broad strokes, but numbers like this only reinforce my view that religion is such poison, and should always be treated with severe disdain.

 

[boiled goose]

Well from my own experience I've spoken to many white Christians who think they are the most persecuted group in the US. The Bible tells them they will be persecuted, so they must be. So any accusations of racism and sexism fall on deaf ears, because if it's not that bad for them, it can't be that bad for black people.

If you ask me, the deciding factor was the large proportion of undecideds last election, and they were probably swayed last minute by that bullshit letter from Comey.

Oh! I forgot to add those statistics.
Many white evangelicals believe that white people have it worse than black people.

Again, it's racism fueled by a belief completely unsupported by the facts.

 

[JORMBO]

Trump won because Hillary ran a bad, lazy campaign with no real message.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Stop giving them a pass. They weren't conned or tricked or conditioned or brainwashed or whatever.

It was clear what Trump was the entire time. This is what they wanted.

 

[Gutek]

Republicanism is the largest cult in the world. And there is nothing you can do about it in a free speech society.

Right wing radio and FOX have done a tremendous job.

 

[megarockexe]

Well, that and the memeificafion of Trump. People just couldn't stop talking about him, despite being a terrible candidate.

 

[wildfire]

Some of these people simply are more like Trump than you realize. They aren't living in a fantasy land. They are bullshit artists.

 

[xxracerxx]

Trump won because Hillary ran a bad, lazy campaign with no real message.

Jesus. Go back and listen to her speeches, there was a clear message of progress.

 

[boiled goose]

Stop giving them a pass. They weren't conned or tricked or conditioned or brainwashed or whatever.

It was clear what Trump was the entire time. This is what they wanted.

Saying they are somewhat incapable of basic reasoning because they have been indoctrinated or brainwashed is not giving them a pass at all.

I mean, this isn't really anything new at the end of day.

I'm pointing a finger at religious type thinking itself. I haven't seen that angle very often.

Trump won because Hillary ran a bad, lazy campaign with no real message.

I hear you in that Hillary could have won in spite of not being able to count on 20% of voters.
That 80-16 split would not change much no matter what Hillary did.

It's hard to win when 25% of the electorate does not agree to the same reality.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Saying they are somewhat incapable of basic reasoning because they have been indoctrinated or brainwashed is not giving them a pass at all.

Yes, it is.

You're shifting part of the responsibility for their vote off of them and on to the ones doing the indoctrination.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Well from my own experience I've spoken to many white Christians who think they are the most persecuted group in the US. The Bible tells them they will be persecuted, so they must be. So any accusations of racism and sexism fall on deaf ears, because if it's not that bad for them, it can't be that bad for black people.

If you ask me, the deciding factor was the large proportion of undecideds last election, and they were probably swayed last minute by the last major news story right before the election being that bullshit letter from Comey.

Oh Lord, I know. I've pretty much just given up trying to talk to these people. I just can't do it anymore.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

There's also a popularity vote - if someone goes by who they like most, and follows zero issues, then it'll be influenced by those around them.

And what floats your ear better - a career politician or a businessman Trump?

If that's ALL you know from it, I can say a lot of ppl who want to stay willfully ignorant of politics (and for good reason - politics itself has a bad name, so no one likes to talk about it) will likely go for Trump.

And then go... "Oh shit, he was for THAT??"

 

[PKrockin]

Jesus. Go back and listen to her speeches, there was a clear message of progress.

Whether she had a message or not, it wasn't able to get through to anyone because all the media did was cover Trump and his message.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Yes, it is.

You're shifting part of the responsibility for their vote off of them and on to the ones doing the indoctrination.

Not really. I can say that explains their present condition and still fault them for not making an effort to change.

It's like how you can say someone's behavior might have been the result of childhood trauma or abuse, but still hold them responsible if they themselves abuse another.

 

[invaderzim69]

People wanted "change" and they thought Trump would be the one to do that, and now we are witnessing those changes before us. Trump and the Republican party are showing what they are really about.

 

[boiled goose]

Yes, it is.

You're shifting part of the responsibility for their vote off of them and on to the ones doing the indoctrination.

Am I blaming organized religion and society at large in part? Sure.

If you want to blame indoctrinated and uneducated people ENTIRELY that is up to you. I don't think beliefs are a matter of choice. You are either convinced of a claim or you aren't. If your brain is not trained to evaluate claims, then you will be convinced of inaccurate things.

This "libertarian" view of "free will" is also something that religions cling to, but doesn't exist in reality.

I'm more interested in winning and fixing problems than a mere attribution of blame.

 

[madstarr12]

Trump won because Hillary ran a bad, lazy campaign with no real message.

She literally has repeated things like "Make the economy work for everyone, not just those at the top", and "debt free college" and "profit sharing for employees" and "Paid family leave" and........she's had plenty of messages. All the media wanted to cover, was her emails, or Trump's controversial nonsense.

 

[ImaLemming]

I don't think this is entirely unrelated, but there was a pretty good read about why facts don't change people's minds in the New Yorker recently. Thought it was interesting.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-change-our-minds

I can tell you why facts don't change people's minds in one sentence:

Because humans are miserable little piles of confirmation bias, double standards, and entrenchment.

(And secrets, I guess)

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Single issue voters are the fucking worst.

Was talking with my wife the other night and the fight over abortion is ruining this country's politics. The GOP knows as long as they hold a "pro life" stance they will never lose a large section of voters. They could make people's lives a living hell and those people would be satisfied knowing at least someone can't get an abortion.

Even if you are anti abortion you can still fight that fight and educate it regardless of who is in power, and of course plainly choose not to have an abortion.

 

[To Far Away Times]

The two most powerful policy positions you can have in politics:

Pro-life
Reduced taxes on the wealthy

 

[boiled goose]

I can tell you why facts don't change people's minds in one sentence:

Because humans are miserable little piles of confirmation bias, double standards, and entrenchment.

(And secrets, I guess)

Definitely. Now the question is, do we equip humans with tools to try to minimize these effects or train them to use those errors to confirm personal views?

 

[LegendofJoe]

Latino Americans aren't voting. That needs to change NOW.

 

[Ithil]

Well from my own experience I've spoken to many white Christians who think they are the most persecuted group in the US. The Bible tells them they will be persecuted, so they must be. So any accusations of racism and sexism fall on deaf ears, because if it's not that bad for them, it can't be that bad for black people.

If you ask me, the deciding factor was the large proportion of undecideds last election, and they were probably swayed last minute by the last major news story right before the election being that bullshit letter from Comey.

They have come to believe that "racism" is some far away, near mythical concept, that almost no one is. They certainly don't think "hating minorities and non-white people" is being racist, hell they likely feel that's the normal order of things and that "racism" must be something else.

It's perhaps "something that happens to other people" to them.

 

[Bit-Bit]

Where were all the racists the last two elections when an actual black guy was running for president?

I'm just saying.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Am I blaming organized religion and society at large in part? Sure.

If you want to blame indoctrinated and uneducated people ENTIRELY that is up to you. I don't think beliefs are a matter of choice. You are either convinced of a claim or you aren't. If your brain is not trained to evaluate claims, then you will be convinced of inaccurate things.

This "libertarian" view of "free will" is also something that religions cling to, but doesn't exist in reality.

I'm more interested in winning and fixing problems than a mere attribution of blame.

If you think Fox News and their ilk disappearing would fix the issues in this country you're sorely mistaken.

They are fully functioning adults at the end of the day. They cast that vote.

 

[LosDaddie]

uh, there's nothing new in the OP.

White evangelicals voting for the GOP in massive numbers is common knowledge. These are quite literally the "Family Values" voters.

Trump won because Hillary ran a bad, lazy campaign with no real message.

Abuela was simply a horrible, lazy candidate. She never won a competitive race in her life.

But no, she did have a message. She thought she was entitled to many people's votes, and campaigned as such.

 

[PKrockin]

Oh Lord, I know. I've pretty much just given up trying to talk to these people. I just can't do it anymore.

I act like I'm on their side and try to get them to realize how bad black people have it, but the instant I say the word racism they completely shut down, as if I'd just suggested the earth is flat. That triggered safe space snowflake shit is some amazing projection. If I avoid saying the word racism and just talk facts and data it doesn't really work well either though. They will dismiss even Census data. A fact-based approach is pretty useless against conspiracy theorists.

They have come to believe that "racism" is some far away, near mythical concept, that almost no one is. They certainly don't think "hating minorities and non-white people" is being racist, hell they likely feel that's the normal order of things and that "racism" must be something else.

It's perhaps "something that happens to other people" to them.

I just had a conversation yesterday with someone who doesn't consider himself racist, he just hates Muslims because he hasn't met one he considered friendly. As in, like, smiled and said hello. According to him, they all glare daggers at him for his white skin. So he's not racist, he thinks it's justified to hate Muslims because of that. He denies projecting, he really thinks they all hate him for being white.

 

[thehypocrite]

Where were all the racists the last two elections when an actual black guy was running for president?

I'm just saying.

They were voting for the other guy and politicians that would obstruct every initiative of his. Unfortunately, that president could overcome their opposition for presidential elections.

 

[Tahnit]

I honestly think a majority of trump supporters are just stupid people. Plain and simple. Not intelligent rational human beings. Not empathic. Only caring about themselves.

 

[BADMAN]

I think there was a large percentage of Obama voters who didn't vote for Hillary based on wanting to hold her and the Democrats responsible for Hillary's corruption problems. This was a mistake in hindsight.

 

[boiled goose]

If you think Fox News and their ilk disappearing would fix the issues in this country you're sorely mistaken.

They are fully functioning adults at the end of the day. They cast that vote.

That's not what I'm saying at all. If Fox news disappeared they would just get misinformed elsewhere. They do not know how to distinguish reality from fantasy.

 

[Dylan Sexbang]

I honestly think a majority of trump supporters are just stupid people. Plain and simple. Not intelligent rational human beings. Not empathic. Only caring about themselves.

Really are. I realized this the day my friends told me he knows a border patrol agent who told him that we have immigrants from the middle east region crossing the Mexico-US border illegally.

EDIT: oh, and that he wanted a third term of Obama but voted for Trump over Hillary. The fuck

 

[LegendofJoe]

Evangelical voters won't matter if the Democratic party can engage the Latino community to get more involved in politics and vote. To do that they need to find and run more Latino candidates. It HAS to be priority number one for the Democratic party moving forward.

 

[yanipheonu]

It can be hard to remember that thinking something is right was never a guarantee it was true. Even smart people can get drawn into it.

At least Science and Rationalism have checks on that, and at least attempt to have reason and evidence to back up claims. But most humans don't appear to operate that way instinctually. We have to learn it.

The assertion that people, naturally, will make a rational choice in their own self interest has certainly taken hits lately.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Imagine that.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I know this guy who, though he didn't vote, would have voted for Trump. He believes that it's likely Trump could destroy the economy, start a war, even start a world war or nuclear war, but that we're safer with Trump because God would protect Christians under Trump, whereas Hillary is pro-choice so our souls would be at risk, and believes every Christian should be that.

Coincidentally he's the biggest fucking dumbass I've ever known by a huge fucking margin.

He also teaches (in Florida). Ugh.

 

[boiled goose]

Was talking with my wife the other night and the fight over abortion is ruining this country's politics. The GOP knows as long as they hold a "pro life" stance they will never lose a large section of voters. They could make people's lives a living hell and those people would be satisfied knowing at least someone can't get an abortion.

Even if you are anti abortion you can still fight that fight and educate it regardless of who is in power, and of course plainly choose not to have an abortion.

A bit off topic, but that is why I don't think the Democrats can be the "progressive social issues" party while embracing GOP like pro corporate economic stances.

They need to focus on broad intersectional populist issues.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Its a combination of that and Hillary being a charisma black hole. Let me remind you W got elected twice. You can never underestimate the effect of charisma.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Well yes, believing that virgins can get pregnant is a pretty poor foundation to build on for critical thinking.

 

[titiklabingapat]

I wasn't for accelerationism but you know what, we're already in it. Might as well go full throttle so they fucking feel the full effect and extent of it too. Enjoy the fucking ride, motherfuckers!

 

[cdyhybrid]

That's not what I'm saying at all. If Fox news disappeared they would just get misinformed elsewhere. They do not know how to distinguish reality from fantasy.

Misinformed? Did Trump not run on building a wall and banning Muslims? Did I dream the last 8 months?

 

[thehypocrite]

Evangelical voters won't matter if the Democratic party can engage the Latino community to get more involved in politics and vote. To do that they need to find and run more Latino candidates. It HAS to be priority number one for the Democratic party moving forward.

Let's give a pass to those delusional folks.

 

[Poppy]

people care more about tribalism than humanism, straight up. we arent so far removed from our pre agrarian selves yet. pehaps we never will be.

selfishness is the default state of man (perhaps of all life) and to go beyond it is not easy for everyone