well i guess i was wrong having fun all this past week playing zelda!
silly me!, thanks for teaching me whats best
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Jimquisition: Weapon Durability, Fanbase Fragility (Mar. 13th, 2017)
- Thread starter L~A
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well i guess i was wrong having fun all this past week playing zelda!
silly me!, thanks for teaching me whats best
lvl99 Pixel
Member
have you played it or are you just basing this on a few peoples opinions?
thats not going to ever warrant a patch, thankfully.
Am I qualified to review Forza in a reasonable manner if I hate car sims and don't find them fun regardless of what they do or how they work?
People who are upset about this review: would you rather have every review be identical and "correct"? Obviously there is a non-zero percentage of people who somewhat like or even dislike BotW. Doesn't it make sense that there would be a review that captures their perspective? Someone will read this review, it will resonate strongly with them, and they will skip a game they might not enjoy.
Of course personally I think that Jim came at the game with the wrong mentality and that there is an all-time great experience to be found with the right perspective. But we shouldn't pretend his opinion is "wrong", just that he was unfortunate enough to not find a way to meet the game in an effective way. We all have games like this.
Of course personally I think that Jim came at the game with the wrong mentality and that there is an all-time great experience to be found with the right perspective. But we shouldn't pretend his opinion is "wrong", just that he was unfortunate enough to not find a way to meet the game in an effective way. We all have games like this.
Yes? Why wouldn't you?
Vampirolol
Member
It's not. It's one of the best things about the game and that is clear as day.
Honestly I wish Botw received mixed reviews so we could avoid all these people, who probably loved Witcher 3 to death, explaining why their expectations and their ocd should ruin a well done game.
The truth is, the mechaninc is perfectly implemented in the game. Weapons in Botw are part of the survival aspect, and add to the exploration and the experience. You want to find new ones, and you want to use the ones you have. There is a ton of them, with different abilities, and the fact that you can't repair a weapon invites you to try different approaches.
You also can find the type of weapon you love in minutes.
It's not like people hate limited bullets in games, right? Because it's the same thing.
The fact that the community is focusing on weapon durability is really surprising, but when a game reaches 98 (whoops 97) on metacritic, you know what you're going to get.
One can dislike it, I respect that, but don't act like this is stupid and should have been addressed in the reviews, because it's a non problem for most of humanity.
But the tones are now "if you like it you are a fanboy/stupid" so thank you Jim and Zelda fanboys.
It's a central gameplay system, and the entire combat system - including weapon design and drops - are directly reliant upon its tuning.
It's not being patched.
How is it poorly implemented?? How does that break the inventory system?
Absolutely as long as you state that fact up front. That would be a review I would like to read.
Yes, absolutely. If you were interested enough to review the game then your perspective is useful for a person who has hated all car sims but it somehow still interested in reading a Forza review. This scenario exists and happens over and over again.
elrechazado
Banned
You missed clearly where he explicitly explained that he's going by his own opinion which makes it objectively true. How do you people miss the firm tongue in cheek as he acknowledges that this is his opinion of what he likes in games?
90% of this thread consists of setting up and then knocking down this strawman.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
I'm not following.
Say that you acquired all kinds of tires in Forza, but they degraded after a few turns. That would make you hold on to the rarest, best tires, right? What if you had to stop the car and change tires every 10 turns or so.
To be honest, I didn't like the weapon durability mechanic at first. However, it soon became clear to me the positives. For one, it allows me to play around with different types of weapons. For another, it changes how I approach combat. Instead of just attacking and dodging, I actually use runes, bows, shields, etc. in combat.
Yeah and it's possible to never farm in the game. It's possible to constantly find better, new weapons while also improvising in the spot.
In my 30+ hour experience it's perfectly balanced and functional.
And you don't have to pause to switch weapons?
Comically flawed false equivalence. The comparison would only be valid if your shoes/clothes degraded in Zelda, halting your physical movement, which they don't. Combat is a substantial but not ubiquitous part of BotW - it's possible to avoid combat altogether in countless situations and you also have plenty of other options besides weapons.
PunjabiPlaya
Member
If or when you actually play the game, you'll understand how the system works and is implemented. How unfortunate that you actually have to play a game to understand how fun it is.
Whaaat? I've seen videos of the game aside from the one in the OP, and have read this thread full of people that have played it how annoyed they are with weapons busting quickly. I'm also talking about the loads of Zeldas I did play an how the lack of a quick item swap button was one of the things that eventually turned me off of the series. If going into a menu frequently changing items was a chore in previous games, it follows that going into a menu frequently changing weapons is just as much of a chore, I think?
The degradation system doesn't do any of that. In fact it does the opposite. It doesn't let you "play around with different types of weapons". If forces you to use whatever weapons you have to hand and could fit in your backpack.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Yeah you do. Quick select and inventory menu pause the game.
Jim is adept at the game of soccer played with hornet's nests. He's a GD genius.
That's all I can really say about the situation, having not yet played Zelda but knowing the ebb and flow of Jim's work over the years.
Never stops being hilarious (and likely true) though, despite the predictability at this point.
That's all I can really say about the situation, having not yet played Zelda but knowing the ebb and flow of Jim's work over the years.
Never stops being hilarious (and likely true) though, despite the predictability at this point.
he is talking about how you gott to press d-pad right and the game pauses while you select your weapon, not about pressing plus and select a new weapon
somehow that "pause" while you select a weapon, is "bad"
What do the other tyres get me? Can I do crazy drifts on one, get nitro on the next set and go off road on the next lot? Can I just change the tyres with two button presses? If so, I'm down.
Are you actually being serious? 60 odd people score it a 9 or 10, 2 disagree and that's your evidence? The 2 must be right and everyone else is biased for not agreeing with you?
Lanrutcon
Member
You're right, I don't believe it.
Asking that the reviews stating the game is absolute perfection be given as much attention as the review that says the game is good? yeah, pretty sure I'm not the one who's biased here.
Yes, that's exactly what I said. Everyone is wrong and the game is terrible. If I had a youtube channel you'd post something angry and unsubscribe.
Thank fuck for Jim, at least someone is speaking out about the bad points of Zelda.
I dont understand how nearly everyone can think its a perfect game, with some of its features and what I've seen and heard some criticise about it. Oops sorry, shouldn't have insulted your precious game unless I've played it.
I dont understand how people are so crazy, ddosing over it and whatever else. Is this insanity a recent thing or is it just a derivative form of religion.
I dont understand how nearly everyone can think its a perfect game, with some of its features and what I've seen and heard some criticise about it. Oops sorry, shouldn't have insulted your precious game unless I've played it.
I dont understand how people are so crazy, ddosing over it and whatever else. Is this insanity a recent thing or is it just a derivative form of religion.
I get being annoyed at having to pause the flow of the game to swap shields, weapons, arrows, and bows but honestly, I think being forced to do that in real time would make the game even more difficult, perhaps to its detriment. The controls are also pretty complex as it is.
I'm fine with it but I do wish it was a wheel
I'm fine with it but I do wish it was a wheel
I think you knew the answer to that question before you asked it.
Dude, the quick menu in BotW often lasts literally less than a second. It's a miniscule pause.
Come back to the thread when you've played the goddamn game.
They're different games using very different systems. It might annoy you, it might not, but you wont know until you actually play it.
Based on your posts though, I doubt you'll go into it wanting to like it, and it might just not be for you.
What exciting battles are you referring to? Doing melee combat for the 200th time? IMO, using the runes are a much more fun way of doing battles than using weapons.
I don't have a problem with the idea of weapon degradation, I just think the balance is off. If they made all weapons have twice as much durability, that would go a long way.
Also while we're at it, the default stamina meter could have been a bit bigger (like 2 or 3 upgrades worth higher).
Also while we're at it, the default stamina meter could have been a bit bigger (like 2 or 3 upgrades worth higher).
So you think it's more likely that all 60 of those reviewers are biased? You might want to have a good hard look at why you want to believe that, because the evidence just isn't there for you to have come to that conclusion.
Hey guys. Just because you're having fun doesnt mean the weapon durability criticism impacts your fun. Game is great, but having to farm for a weapon i like over and over because it breaks quickly isn't fun for me and others. It's just an incredible nuisance to worry constantly about the state of my weapons.
Thornton Reed
Member
Jim is quickly becoming my favourite person on the internet. That was hilarious. He has every right to go after and embarrass the shit heads who are trying to take down his site.
C.Olimar788
Member
It absolutely is. It breaks the flow of combat as well as is a severe sing against immersion - to speak of a game I've been playing a lot lately, Horizon Zero Dawn, whenever I felt a need to swap out my weapons mid-combat I would try to avoid doing so because of how it was detrimental to the feel of playing the game. If I was forced to do that during the middle of combat regularly I feel like it would make for a worse gameplay experience.
If it doesn't bother you, that's great! But it would bother me, and I hope it is addressed before I inevitably play BotW so I can have the best possible experience I can.
This is possible, sometimes things that sound bad on paper work out well. But it's rare, and everyone I've heard comment on weapon durability - barring random people on internet threads - have said that it isn't great. So I'm not getting my hopes up.
Maybe not consciously biased, but yes. Internet reviews for the Popular Games (Zelda, CoD, Mass Effect, most AAA franchises...) often skew towards the positive end of the spectrum for a number of reasons, such as hype cycle, pre-existing enjoyment existing, and the natural bias of reviewers. It happens time and time again, and is one of the reasons focusing so much on review scores helps approximately no one ever.
For some people, maybe Zelda is a perfect game. But for most of them it gets a 10/10 for other reasons, and it may be worth looking into the content of their reviews and opinions beyond just the score. For instance, I wonder how many reviewers noted the problems with weapon durability versus praised it for various reasons? I don't know the answer to this, but it may be worth looking into regardless.
This is the most fun combat system Zelda has had, though skyward sword did great with it's motion controls. Actually having to think outside of mashing a button, having to recognize what weapon both you and the enemy are using and what attacks are possible with both. Do you go for a quick fight with big damage while sacrificing defense, take a shield and go for parries, or use a spear and get quick damage at a distance. Even dark souls, it's just about rolling through the attack and managing stamina, especially since you can hold onto the same weapon the entire time, to ensure max efficiency.
If you don't want to do all that, cool, but that's on you, not the game.
I couldn't disagree more with Jim regarding BOTW's weapon durability, but that's ok. Different strokes for different folks. I kind of wish he didn't address the idiots ddosing him and leaving idiotic comments though. I don't think it adds anything of value and isn't worth addressing the trolls since they aren't going to learn anything.
dont do it then? if you dont want to pause to change weapons, just dont do it
you wanna to run away, and pretend you need to change your weapon realistically, you can do it
also, how can it be a sting on immersion, your fucking weapon just broke, what are you going to do? use a new one, the weapon you are using is not very efective against the enemy you are fighting, what would you do? use a different weapon!
Vampirolol
Member
Man, the whole media should drop review scores.
There was a review thread with more posts than this very thread for that. Don't think any if the reviews said it was perfection though, a couple said it might be the best they've ever played. Something I may end up agreeing with once I can finally stop exploring.
Everyone that likes the game =/= the few people who went crazy in response to this review.
You seem like your jimmies were rustled more than most, tbh. y u mad, bro
You're biased because you believe that the 10/10 reviews said the game was literally flawless, when the fact is these reviews noted flaws like the frame rate and voice acting but said they simply weren't enough to override their engagement with the other factors that were fun to them and how they viewed the package as a whole. They also didn't agree with Jim on weapon durability, at least to the extent that he did.
So, please, don't act as if you're all the more objective or sensible than people who love the game if you don't even know what the reviews said just because you're putting your stake in the lone 7/10 review.
This was never the question. The question is can you judge on its own merits, can you look behind your own nose. Ebert reviewed all the time movies which were not the kind of he prefers, but he was able to review them fairly and sometimes even gave them high scores.
When you approach something with "I don't like thing. Lets focus on the negative and ignore the good as much as possible", you suck as reviewer.
So yes, reviewing something you normally don't like is fair. But you should be able to take your own bias into account instead of being lead by it.
The Third Heat
Neo Member
Nintendo won't patch the durability "issue" because it's a feature not a flaw. I've said this before, but complaining about it is like hoping Uno takes out all the "skip" cards because nobody likes them. It's a fundamental part of the game.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Also, is Zelda a racing game?
As someone who also hates weapon degradation that gameplay has completely turned me off the game, is it common for weapons to break that quick or is it just cleverly edited to look that way? The constant interrupting of the combat is also a huge turn off, that alone would force me to avoid most combat encounters after awhile.
The trick is to let go and take weapons as they come. I think the core issue is some players (like yourself) like making a connection with their gear and the sentiment/feel they get from that. This is fine in 99% of rpgs/action games, but in Zelda it's not the point.
Embrace that weapons are transient. Once you do this you then literally never have to farm them or get irritated about it. All weapons break, it's a fact of life in Zelda. Now you can improvise though any situation and have a nicer, more chilled time.
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