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Buffy the Vampire Slayer turns 20
- Thread starter AoM
- Start date
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Is a musical high school drama show that started out good but quickly devolved to shit the closets substitute to a meh Joss Whedon show that people adore that was about a badass young woman kicking ass and dealing with shit? No
My class of middle schoolers watch Jane the Virgin, and the Walking Dead. Probably shows like the Flash and whatever's on Netflix.
Good they watchin JTV, now get them to watch Crazy Ex-Girlfriend
EverythingShiny
Member
So happy to see the Giles love in this thread. He's hands down one of my favorite characters in tv/books/film (except for his arc in season 7, which I hated) and Anthony Stewart Head is an amazing person.
Like a lot of others, Season 3 is my favorite by far, although I do love Season 4, even if I hate the Riley subplot. I watched The Body with my mom and I don't think a show has ever made me cry that hard. It's a masterful episode.
As for Angel, favorite character is a tie between Wesley and Lorne. I really love Lorne and it's such a shame Andy Hallet died so young
Buffy/Angel are definitely in my top 5 favorite shows. As a young woman with a single mom and a younger sister, a lot of Buffy's struggles really resonated with me.
Like a lot of others, Season 3 is my favorite by far, although I do love Season 4, even if I hate the Riley subplot. I watched The Body with my mom and I don't think a show has ever made me cry that hard. It's a masterful episode.
As for Angel, favorite character is a tie between Wesley and Lorne. I really love Lorne and it's such a shame Andy Hallet died so young
Buffy/Angel are definitely in my top 5 favorite shows. As a young woman with a single mom and a younger sister, a lot of Buffy's struggles really resonated with me.
PeterLegend
Member
My favorite seasons were 2 and 3, i also liked 4. Seasons 5, 6 and 7 were a bit depressing
That episode originally aired the day before my father died from a sudden heart attack. I have such incredible emotions attached to it and it was so spot on, in the various ways people handle grief. I have such respect for that episode and I actually think it was strangely comforting, seeing characters I enjoyed, deal with the same thing right before /at the same time, as I was.
Decided to try jumping in to see season six now, but the starting recap made it seem a bit sudden so I went back to season 5 episode 14 as the starting point and it seems like it will work out well enough to re establish the characters and their relationships in regards to how they will matter in season 6, especially between Spike and Buffy.
I hope this thread and all the recent buzz from the 20th anniversary brings some attention to this show from people who haven't tried it out before.
It really is one of the GOAT shows, and one of the reasons TV's so much better these days.
When this show came out, TV was so different. Fantasy shows in particular were almost entirely based on standalone monster-of-the-week formats. This show came busting out of the gate with big epic season arcs, characters who changed drastically over the course of seasons, and a hell of a lot of depth. I would argue that it's every bit as important as the Sopranos in terms of its influence on modern TV.
Gonna do a rewatch myself soon I think.
It really is one of the GOAT shows, and one of the reasons TV's so much better these days.
When this show came out, TV was so different. Fantasy shows in particular were almost entirely based on standalone monster-of-the-week formats. This show came busting out of the gate with big epic season arcs, characters who changed drastically over the course of seasons, and a hell of a lot of depth. I would argue that it's every bit as important as the Sopranos in terms of its influence on modern TV.
Gonna do a rewatch myself soon I think.
Buffy is still one of my favorite shows, I need to rewatch them. I was never huge into S5 or S6 but my opinion could change on a rewatch. I liked S1 simply for the simplicity of it. Who knew then that Darla would such an important character later in the series lore.
I think season 7 had the potential to be really good an Nathan Fillion had a chances to be one of the better villains, but it always seemed like it got its legs cut out from underneath about halfways because SMG decided to bolt. I can understand why she did, but maybe not the best decision long term. What is she even doing now anyway?
I think season 7 had the potential to be really good an Nathan Fillion had a chances to be one of the better villains, but it always seemed like it got its legs cut out from underneath about halfways because SMG decided to bolt. I can understand why she did, but maybe not the best decision long term. What is she even doing now anyway?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but the thing with how the show ended is that throughout the series they emphasize the balance of power between good and evil and that if something drastic happens to throw the scale at one end then the universe sort of compensates for that to even things out.
So after unlocking every would-be slayer, i'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and what would have happened in favor of Evil to combat this change. (The Apocalypse in Angel is the answer?).
So after unlocking every would-be slayer, i'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and what would have happened in favor of Evil to combat this change. (The Apocalypse in Angel is the answer?).
Yeah I think the Apocalypse is what balanced the scales. With that many slayers they had to have something big to tip it. Fandom estimated 100-500 called, and with each dying and making a new one there will always be that many now.
Um, that change had already happened - Buffy was following a new trend, not setting it. In particular, Babylon 5 came out several years before and completely rewrote the script for how sci if tv shows worked, with a 5 year story arc, massive character changes and development, and people dying etc. Compared to Star Trek at the time and it's noticeable how different it was.
(Yes, sci-if and not fantasy, but it was a wider trend at the time to move away from singular episodes and into proper character arcs and in-depth narrative).
I'd argue that X-Files started the long arc type shows, but Buffy really changed the genre forever. They don't teach college classes on X Files or Babylon 5 after all
BKatastrophe
Member
I guess I'm coming in years after it's done, but the stuff I've been reading and watching indicates that they had some shit going on, were frustrated, and accidentally took it out on each other and that they're cool now. Nothing deliberate or intentional or over the top (I've seen some talk about Charisma being verbally abused and degraded after she got pregnant).
Buffy didn't invent ongoing narratives or anything, but it did it better than anybody had done it before at least in terms of fantasy/sci-fi.
Although admittedly, Babylon 5 was pretty damn close, and did some very interesting things that set it apart from the pack.
Here's a pretty cool article that outlines in much greater detail a lot of the reasons why Buffy (and the Sopranos) were two most important shows that changed the TV landscape towards the end of the 90s.
In regards to Buffy and serialization:
They teach college classes on anything. Also reading through what 'Buffy studies' comprises doesn't exactly sell me on them... And actually they do teach classes on B5 because of the special effects used...
In reality though, all that happened was fantasy and sci-if caught up with more normal tv shows. Soap operas had year long character arcs, changing narratives etc and ha had for decades already. Similarily, British sci fi tv shows had been doing the same since the 70s.
That's an incredible coincidence. Very late condolences.
I'm glad it affected you in a comforting way. I can see how it could. That's one of my nightmare scenarios, sudden loss of that kind. It's terrifying.
So there aren't really shows about highschool teens going through teenage stuff these days? As someone who grew up with Buffy and Popular, and then saw the next crop of kids get Veronica Mars, that's very interesting.
Perhaps entertainment skews in a more escapist direction these days, although The Walking Dead is a superb substitute for Angel. Hell, Supernatural is a decent Buffy successor; just without the highschool backdrop.
Freddy=Legend
Member
I guess Riverdale could fill that high school show void if it does well. Enjoyed the first episode & heard it stays pretty strong.
NinjaCoachZ
Member
One of the best moments is when Angel thinks Willow was vamped, comes to tell the rest of the gang she's dead while genuinely seeming like he's trying to choke back tears, and Willow just goes "Hey Angel" and without skipping a beat he just says, "Hey Willow." Then everyone goes dead quiet and Angel takes five seconds to process what just happened before suddenly going, "Wait..."
BKatastrophe
Member
"Doppelgangland" is fucking aces as an episode.
First instance of having characters consciously go to and from a dimension/alternate timeline in a singular episode. It became much bigger and more frequent in Angel.
EDIT: Actually I lied. "Anne" is the first instance of that. Interesting when taken as foreshadowing for LA being a dimensional hotspot.
bitbydeath
Member
The foreshadowing of Dawn was the best, they put it in as a riddle in season 3 and she didn't arrive til like season 5.
Innuendo84
Banned
I have never watched Buffy. I always though it's a dumb American tv series about school kids fighting vampires (which it kinda is). Recently I read the BBC article about how influential it was and I was like "what the hell are you smoking?". So now I watched the whole season one and I'm hooked. I will probably try to convince my wife to watch it with me, but she hates horror movies, so I will probably have to watch it on my own (she loves Dr. Who, so maybe there is hope since they are a bit similar).
Sadly the only thing I regret is that I did not watch it when I was in high school and now I'm a bit too old for this series (33 years old), so some things won't resonate with me anymore.
Sadly the only thing I regret is that I did not watch it when I was in high school and now I'm a bit too old for this series (33 years old), so some things won't resonate with me anymore.
BaronLundi
Member
I went through the same journey... I was about 35 when I started watching Buffy a few years ago (and Angel immediately after that because we couldn't get enough) and it was one hell of ride.
For what it's worth the wife hates horror movies too and she had a blast. There's only a handful of scary scenes in the series - "horror film scary" that is. I'd me more concerned if she hated really funny and/or sad stuff.
Just tell her that the only reason the 2005-modern Doctor Who exists was because of Buffy and how it personally inspired Russell T Davies.
Stallion Dan
Member
Eh, not even forshadowing. Random crazy man could call anyone not on the show during S3 Curds and Way and 'OMG foreshadowing'.
BKatastrophe
Member
But it is foreshadowing.
Little sister is coming and counting down from 730 WAS foreshadowing. 730 days till Buffy died.
Then next season, Restless, Buffy saw a clock say 7:30 and Tara said 'That clocks totally wrong.' (360 days by then) And 'Be back before Dawn.-
Restless foreshadowed a shit ton more but my hand is,broken and typing with one finger sucks
I seem to be the only one that called out the Spike 'Christ on Cross' pose foreshadowing at the time and everyone thought I was crazy
If I get on my speaking s9fware later I'll regale you with the stairs death foreshadowing and 'That's not the way out.'
I could talk about Restless all dayanami seriously
Stallion Dan
Member
I disagree, or at least believe it is the worst kind of foreshadowing.
Everything in a movie or TV show should happen for a reason, otherwise it's pointless. Buffy drops so much meaningless nonsense that only sometimes gets followed up on, and some of it is a real stretch (credit card/death date) or like curds and whey (totally non specific).
There is so much of it that it feels more like it was just put in to be co-opted later by whatever it could, rather than true foreshadowing.
Curds and wheys followed with 'little sister is coming is home ' and counting down from 730 like I said in my post above yours, and that's pretty damned specific.
I am going to make a giant Restless foreshadowing post later, now.
the_sun_king
Member
Just because it was rather obtuse doesn't mean it wasn't "true foreshadowing". Buffy's dreams about Little Miss Muffet ARE foreshadowing; the writers have blatantly admitted so!
Stallion Dan
Member
After the fact doesn't matter. Is like when The Beatles just made up rubbish for lyrics and when fans invent some deep meaning they just went along with it.
The 730 thing could have been a reference to SMG's contract ending at end of S5. By time end of S4 could easy been co-opted.
Like I said, is a lot of stuff that just goes nowhere and means nothing.
After reading this thread I started rewatching the series. I have never watched all episodes and never in order only watched a few times after school as a kid.
So far Im enjoying season 1,but you can easily tell the low budget as they clearly didnt have money for Sarah Michelle Gellar could brush her teeth. I swear that in every episode she has something between her teeth.
So far Im enjoying season 1,but you can easily tell the low budget as they clearly didnt have money for Sarah Michelle Gellar could brush her teeth. I swear that in every episode she has something between her teeth.
This...is not something I have ever noticed. How about the rest of the cast? Does Anthony Stewart Head have crumbs on his upper lip?
It definitely was a guilty pleasure for me, but I can't deny its good moments. My favorite episode is the one when everyone loses their voices, I think is "hush", I saw it mentioned in the first posts of the thread. The series overall is just too corny, with "witty" moments that fall flat, I never could like Whedon's writing, and I know I'm in the minority, none of his shows have appealed to me.
I did enjoy the movie though, even if it's trash, it's kind of self aware. I probably shouldn't rewatch it though it would destroy whatever little fun memories I have of it.
You see this is what I find really corny, and the series is full of moments like this, of course if you enjoy them the series must be amazing for you.
I did enjoy the movie though, even if it's trash, it's kind of self aware. I probably shouldn't rewatch it though
it would destroy whatever little fun memories I have of it.You see this is what I find really corny, and the series is full of moments like this, of course if you enjoy them the series must be amazing for you.
Hahaha, ya, no.
The real answer.
God Yes.
I forgot how much I love Snyder.
"It's worth nothing, Harris. Whatever comes out of your mouth is a meaningless waste of breath, an airborne toxic event."
"I love the smell of desperate librarian in the morning."
"You... all of you... Why couldn't you be dealing drugs like normal people?"
"Congratulations to the Class of 1999. You all proved more or less adequate"
BKatastrophe
Member
Joss had a rough outline for through S5 if I'm not mistaken. If you think it's bad foreshadowing, then that's fair. It is obtuse nonsense, but that's how that works sometimes. Until the actual foreshadowed event happens, it comes off as nonsense or unremarkable. The fact remains that it is foreshadowing.
I can think of too many other instances of stuff in prophetic dreams and whatnot that they never followed up on.
Speaking of that, I forgot I was going to make a foreshadowing post about Restless, this year's girl, and OMWF. Wonder if I should break it into another thread?
Looking forward to it wherever you do it. I remember those episodes well enough to enjoy reading about them, but poorly enough to be surprised.
Although Whedon has said that he doesn't represent anything, I definitely subscribe to Alastair's (Dusted podcast) theory that he represents Whedon himself, his inability to forgo some jokes, or other peculiar happenings (e.g., the Mayor's "Well, gosh" at the end of S3).
I actually think Joss was lying about him not meaning anything, as I talk about in my meta of foreshadowing. It wasn't IMPORTANT but represented each person's 'place' in the group. Spirit, heart, head, and hand.
Okay, going to post my 6 page foreshadowing thing now. Hold on to your butts.
Foreshadowing in the Buffy verse
In this post I'm going to talk specifically about four episodes: Graduation Day, This Year's Girl, Restless, and Once More with Feeling. The first three dealing with Dawn and the death of Buffy (and I'll likely wax poetic about my much reviled at the time theory of ‘Spike redemption based on dreams and wounds' so feel free to skip that), with Once More with Feeling having more General foreshadowing for the rest of six and of seven.
This Year's Girl and Graduation Day have been a highly debated topic in this thread alone.
First: Graduation Day (pt II).
Buffy's dream while she is in a coma from Angel feeding from her. The room is packed (as was Dawn's room when Buffy discovered she wasn't real), and they first talk about a cat. A cat that no one owns, and that flashes back and forth to a dark-haired girl. Could be Faith? Could be a refence to Dawn.
Then there's the line:
Buffy: There's something I'm supposed to be doing.
Faith: Oh yeah, Miles to Go. Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7-3-0.
This is the most widely talked about part of the dream sequence. Because at the time the episode was aired (or supposed to air), there were 730 days until Buffy's death in season 5.
They then have a conversation that is obviously about Angel, and then talk about the ‘stuff' again, which Faith gives to Buffy. There is a fan theory going around that, because Dawn looks less like Buffy and more like Faith, the monks fucked up and modeled her after the dark-haired slayer, but relegalized and gave her Buffy's blood. Stupid theory, but figured I'd mention it, as it would be then foreshadowing that Faith is giving her all her stuff.
On to this Year's Girl, with the juicier bits:
This Faith and Buffy dream sequence begins with them making a bed that reminds you of the room Faith ‘left her stuff in' in season three. ”They smell good don't they.' Is the first line, as Faith and Buffy adjust the clean sheets. ”Clean sheets. Like Summer." (As in Summers, a brand new clean one). Faith says she wouldn't know, because Dawn is not hers, not in that sense.
Again, the most talked about part of the sequence:
Buffy: I wish I could stay but..
Faith: You have to go.
Buffy: It's just with...
Faith: Little sis coming. I know. So much to do before she gets here.
Many people at the time figured that ‘little sis' meant Faith herself, as she would wake from her coma later in the episode. But nope. And then the dripping blood and Faith saying ‘Damn. Just when we made it so nice.' Has made fans speculate that again, Dawn was created from BOTH slayers, as they both dreamed about her. We find out soon that this dream was not in fact Buffy's, it was Faiths.
Alright. That's the last of the little stuff. On to Restless. Like I said, I could talk about Restless ALL DAY. I will not be focusing on the Dawn bits here, but I will put them first if you want to skip the rest.
Of course, Restless is the episode that makes NO sense on the surface. It's a huge dream seque3nce, with all the scoobies caught in it. But the foreshadowing is insane. As Joss has said, only the Cheese Man didn't mean anything at all (though some argue the placement of the cheese meant shit lol)
We start with Willow and Tara. Tara mentions Dawn again, saying ”I think we should worry, that we haven't found her name." Again about a cat. Willow later says ”She's not all grown yet." Which was true at the time.
Incidentally, fans figured out the poem written on Tara's back was about controlling one's lover. Epic foreshadowing there.
The drama stuff is Willow pretending to be who she's not, which got lost in the ‘drug addiction' metaphor of season six of not being the yellow bright girl, but a power hungry witch.
Also, of course Riley is Cowboy Guy and I CAN'T AGREE MORE.
Giles mentions the Musical number too lmao.
Props and props is about how vampires are always considered wrong
Willow then gets lost finding herself after meeting the ‘spirit' Cheese Man (he's not touching them, so spirit).
”Why is there a cowboy in Death of a Salesman anyway?" indeed. GO AWAY RILEY. Ahem. My issues, ignore. Tara of course then warns Willow about the path of dark magic and power (I wish it would have stayed power and not drugs). Buffy's rant about men foreshadowed her ‘I don't love Riley' bit.
‘You must have done something.' ‘I rarely do anything. I am very seldom naughty.'
Buffy rips off her ‘costume' and it's old dopey Willow, but still I believe the metaphor is about her travels down dark paths. Then of course, she is ‘killed' by the First Slayer my draining her spirit.
Xander:
Xander's dream is mostly about his self-confidence issues. He is also the only person in Restless who goes upstairs/is upstairs and doesn't die, so note that.
He continues to end up in his basement room, where his father is shaking the door at the top of the stairs. ‘That's not the way out.' Well, he doesn't die, so sure.
SPIKE! Swinging in the sun, wanting to be a watcher. Foreshadowing. Also, wearing Randy's suit and ‘Spike's like a son to me' from Tabula Rasa. Also that he sees Buffy as more childlike than he should, and he wants to protect her from things he cannot.
And then the hilarious Anya sequence that shows how much he kinda disregards her. Foreshadowing Hells Bells in season six. And then of course Willow and Tara getting sexy cause he's a boy.
Also note how everyone tells him ‘They are way ahead of him.' Again with the self-confidence issues.
And he's back in the basement. Because he believes he will be stuck there forever, and he doesn't want to become his abusive father. ‘That's not the way out.' Again. Cheese Man holds the cheese near his chest, for the heart reference.
Giles ‘tells him the others have gone on ahead'. Again, everyone is ahead of him. And then no one speaks English anymore because he believes he's stupid.
God, the Snyder-Xander conversation is amazing. ”Where are from Harris?" ”The basement mostly."
”You're a whipping boy, raised by mongrels and set on a sacrificial stone." A lot of us at the time thought this meant Xander's death, like Joyce and Tara and Buffy, was also coming. I posited later that ‘That's not the way out.' Saved him.
And then of course, the first slayer kills him by ripping out his heart.
Giles:
Jesus, this one and Buffy's are the biggest. He is controlling Buffy, but sees her as a child at the same time. He wants a family, his ‘orgasm friend' is pushing an empty stroller and is pregnant (some say another reference to Dawn)
THE SPIKE PHOTOSHOOT. OMG OMG
Oliva is sobbing on the crypt, an empty stroller again, and no longer pregnant. Either a reference to Buffy's death, or that Dawn was one who should have died.
Spike's posing, putting on airs of being the big bad vampire.
And then, the thing that got me laughed at for YEARS until it actually came true:
Giles: ”I still think Buffy should have killed you."
And then Spike, in response, strike a pose: A perfect representation of Christ on the Cross. Redemption and sacrifice.
This triggered the Redemptionista movement in fandom hardcore, and I kept churning out evidence throughout season five that I was right; all of his ‘injuries' sustained after Intervention were ‘wounds of the cross' (bite to the side, the hands with the sword blade, and finally, the crown of thorns after Buffy's death). Again was told I was crazy, and season six kinda made me think I was wrong, but then seven happened and I was right and yay.
ANYWAYS.
Cheese Man again, with Cheese on his head, which represents Giles being the ‘head'. Joss is a LIER.
Xander: ”I promised Anya I'd be there for our big night." FUCK YOU XANDER. *crying*
”Some primal, animal, force."
”That used to be us." A reference to how very old the Slayer line is, basically since humans were a thing.
And then Giles sings and I forget to like, do anything but fangirl, but I'll try. It's called the Exposition Song, because it's just exposition lol
”No wait.."
And then the First Slayer Kills Giles by scalping him, as he is the head.
The watch returns as he still controls Buffy and is a watcher. ”You never had a watcher." Ugh.
BUFFY:
Pretty much the most important dream of course, cause it's Buffy.
Buffy wakes up after Anya begs her in the exact room Faith and her prepared for Dawn, down to the posters.
Buffy : ”Faith and I just made that bed."
Tara: ”For who?" (Little sister)
Buffy: ”I thought you were here to tell me."
Then:
Buffy: It's so late.
Tara: Oh. That clocks completely wrong. (It was now 360 days until Buffy's death, it's not getting late, it's nearly there)
There is then a reference to Buffy being the Hand (fighter) and a direct quote of the first Slayer from Intervention in season five from Tara.
The bed is suddenly made, all ready again.
Buffy leaves the room, and of course, Tara says:
”Be back before Dawn."
Buffy's mother being stuck in a wall might be reference to her tumor, or her separation from Buffy because of college. The mice thing makes me think it's the tumor 
Riley: Hey there killer. Another reference to what a Slayer is. The gun on the table pointed in her direction.
Adam without the monster is a BEAUTIFUL thing too.
Adam: Aggression is a natural human tendency, though you and me come by it another way.
Buffy:
Adam: Is that a fact? (Of course we later learn in season seven that Slayers are in fact, made from demons)
Then some funny, and the demons start coming, and Buffy has her weapons. But her weapon is the Slayer itself; the mud on her face, the essence of what she is.
I do love the color shift here. She is a slayer, at her core, but different. She has people that help and care for her, and isn't alone. Riley, seeing what she is, leaves her. Which of course, happens to everyone's delight in season five.
An then, my favorite scene.
The hallway to sand. The desert. This might be because the desert is where I grew up. But anyhow.
Buffy has her first conversation with the First slayer.
”Someone has to speak for her,"
”I have no speech, no name; I live in the action of death, the blood cry, the penetrating wound. I am destruction—absolute, alone."
What a slayer has been since Buffy became one.
”The Slayer does not walk in this world." After Buffy reminds her that she is not alone.
”I walk, I talk, I shop, I sneeze. I'm going to be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out, and I don't sleep on a bed of bones."
Buffy is NOT a mindless creature of destruction, even if it is the core of her nature.
Cheese Man and the Cheese in his hands. LIES JOSS. IT MEANS A LITTLE BIT, Buffy was the Hand.
They fight of course, Buffy wins, and then the First Slayer stabs her in her arms, which is interesting. Buffy ignores her, and the dream breaks. ”You are not the source of me." Except sorry Buffy, she is.
There endth the lesson on Restless. There is TONS more, and I typed this up during a quick rewatch, but yeah. Sorry for going on and on.
OMWF.
Foreshadowing in Once More with Feeling You Say? I say yes.
Much subtler of course than the other foreshadowing. Tara on the stairs (which for some reason mean death in this show), singing about leaving. Spike hitting a dead end on his way to ‘save' Buffy. Spike grabbing a priest and begging for 'sweet release'. Spike saying 'Someday he'll be a real boy.'
"first he'll kill her, then I'll save her." was a reference to the tear-jerking "Every night I save you" speech from Spike earlier in the season. and OW OW OW Also for the final battle Buffy is pretty much literally dressed in Spike's usual armor of leather coat and red shirt. They are wearing the same clothing, and he hadn't worn what fandom refered to as the 'red shirt of evil' in a long time before that.
I am sure there is more but this is already 6 pages and likely full of typos, so...I am done now. Enjoy if you like meta-analysis of foreshadowing. Point out if you think I am wrong.
SORRY FOR GOING ON AND ON. I AM A HUGE GEEK.
And now I am watching OMWF for the 150th time, thanks guys.
Here, a present:
https://youtu.be/5Xh8duZ1-j0
Sweet being an amazing villian and Dawn's hippy thing that made me feel weird even as a straight woman. "What I mean, I'm 15, so this Queen things illegal."
In this post I'm going to talk specifically about four episodes: Graduation Day, This Year's Girl, Restless, and Once More with Feeling. The first three dealing with Dawn and the death of Buffy (and I'll likely wax poetic about my much reviled at the time theory of ‘Spike redemption based on dreams and wounds' so feel free to skip that), with Once More with Feeling having more General foreshadowing for the rest of six and of seven.
This Year's Girl and Graduation Day have been a highly debated topic in this thread alone.
First: Graduation Day (pt II).
Buffy's dream while she is in a coma from Angel feeding from her. The room is packed (as was Dawn's room when Buffy discovered she wasn't real), and they first talk about a cat. A cat that no one owns, and that flashes back and forth to a dark-haired girl. Could be Faith? Could be a refence to Dawn.
Then there's the line:
Buffy: There's something I'm supposed to be doing.
Faith: Oh yeah, Miles to Go. Little Miss Muffet counting down from 7-3-0.
This is the most widely talked about part of the dream sequence. Because at the time the episode was aired (or supposed to air), there were 730 days until Buffy's death in season 5.
They then have a conversation that is obviously about Angel, and then talk about the ‘stuff' again, which Faith gives to Buffy. There is a fan theory going around that, because Dawn looks less like Buffy and more like Faith, the monks fucked up and modeled her after the dark-haired slayer, but relegalized and gave her Buffy's blood. Stupid theory, but figured I'd mention it, as it would be then foreshadowing that Faith is giving her all her stuff.
On to this Year's Girl, with the juicier bits:
This Faith and Buffy dream sequence begins with them making a bed that reminds you of the room Faith ‘left her stuff in' in season three. ”They smell good don't they.' Is the first line, as Faith and Buffy adjust the clean sheets. ”Clean sheets. Like Summer." (As in Summers, a brand new clean one). Faith says she wouldn't know, because Dawn is not hers, not in that sense.
Again, the most talked about part of the sequence:
Buffy: I wish I could stay but..
Faith: You have to go.
Buffy: It's just with...
Faith: Little sis coming. I know. So much to do before she gets here.
Many people at the time figured that ‘little sis' meant Faith herself, as she would wake from her coma later in the episode. But nope. And then the dripping blood and Faith saying ‘Damn. Just when we made it so nice.' Has made fans speculate that again, Dawn was created from BOTH slayers, as they both dreamed about her. We find out soon that this dream was not in fact Buffy's, it was Faiths.
Alright. That's the last of the little stuff. On to Restless. Like I said, I could talk about Restless ALL DAY. I will not be focusing on the Dawn bits here, but I will put them first if you want to skip the rest.
Of course, Restless is the episode that makes NO sense on the surface. It's a huge dream seque3nce, with all the scoobies caught in it. But the foreshadowing is insane. As Joss has said, only the Cheese Man didn't mean anything at all (though some argue the placement of the cheese meant shit lol)
We start with Willow and Tara. Tara mentions Dawn again, saying ”I think we should worry, that we haven't found her name." Again about a cat. Willow later says ”She's not all grown yet." Which was true at the time.
Incidentally, fans figured out the poem written on Tara's back was about controlling one's lover. Epic foreshadowing there.
The drama stuff is Willow pretending to be who she's not, which got lost in the ‘drug addiction' metaphor of season six of not being the yellow bright girl, but a power hungry witch.
Also, of course Riley is Cowboy Guy and I CAN'T AGREE MORE.
Giles mentions the Musical number too lmao.
Props and props is about how vampires are always considered wrong
Willow then gets lost finding herself after meeting the ‘spirit' Cheese Man (he's not touching them, so spirit).
”Why is there a cowboy in Death of a Salesman anyway?" indeed. GO AWAY RILEY. Ahem. My issues, ignore. Tara of course then warns Willow about the path of dark magic and power (I wish it would have stayed power and not drugs). Buffy's rant about men foreshadowed her ‘I don't love Riley' bit.
‘You must have done something.' ‘I rarely do anything. I am very seldom naughty.'
Buffy rips off her ‘costume' and it's old dopey Willow, but still I believe the metaphor is about her travels down dark paths. Then of course, she is ‘killed' by the First Slayer my draining her spirit.
Xander:
Xander's dream is mostly about his self-confidence issues. He is also the only person in Restless who goes upstairs/is upstairs and doesn't die, so note that.
He continues to end up in his basement room, where his father is shaking the door at the top of the stairs. ‘That's not the way out.' Well, he doesn't die, so sure.
SPIKE! Swinging in the sun, wanting to be a watcher. Foreshadowing. Also, wearing Randy's suit and ‘Spike's like a son to me' from Tabula Rasa. Also that he sees Buffy as more childlike than he should, and he wants to protect her from things he cannot.
And then the hilarious Anya sequence that shows how much he kinda disregards her. Foreshadowing Hells Bells in season six. And then of course Willow and Tara getting sexy cause he's a boy.
Also note how everyone tells him ‘They are way ahead of him.' Again with the self-confidence issues.
And he's back in the basement. Because he believes he will be stuck there forever, and he doesn't want to become his abusive father. ‘That's not the way out.' Again. Cheese Man holds the cheese near his chest, for the heart reference.
Giles ‘tells him the others have gone on ahead'. Again, everyone is ahead of him. And then no one speaks English anymore because he believes he's stupid.
God, the Snyder-Xander conversation is amazing. ”Where are from Harris?" ”The basement mostly."
”You're a whipping boy, raised by mongrels and set on a sacrificial stone." A lot of us at the time thought this meant Xander's death, like Joyce and Tara and Buffy, was also coming. I posited later that ‘That's not the way out.' Saved him.
And then of course, the first slayer kills him by ripping out his heart.
Giles:
Jesus, this one and Buffy's are the biggest. He is controlling Buffy, but sees her as a child at the same time. He wants a family, his ‘orgasm friend' is pushing an empty stroller and is pregnant (some say another reference to Dawn)
THE SPIKE PHOTOSHOOT. OMG OMG
Oliva is sobbing on the crypt, an empty stroller again, and no longer pregnant. Either a reference to Buffy's death, or that Dawn was one who should have died.
Spike's posing, putting on airs of being the big bad vampire.
And then, the thing that got me laughed at for YEARS until it actually came true:
Giles: ”I still think Buffy should have killed you."
And then Spike, in response, strike a pose: A perfect representation of Christ on the Cross. Redemption and sacrifice.
This triggered the Redemptionista movement in fandom hardcore, and I kept churning out evidence throughout season five that I was right; all of his ‘injuries' sustained after Intervention were ‘wounds of the cross' (bite to the side, the hands with the sword blade, and finally, the crown of thorns after Buffy's death). Again was told I was crazy, and season six kinda made me think I was wrong, but then seven happened and I was right and yay.
ANYWAYS.
Cheese Man again, with Cheese on his head, which represents Giles being the ‘head'. Joss is a LIER.
Xander: ”I promised Anya I'd be there for our big night." FUCK YOU XANDER. *crying*
”Some primal, animal, force."
”That used to be us." A reference to how very old the Slayer line is, basically since humans were a thing.
And then Giles sings and I forget to like, do anything but fangirl, but I'll try. It's called the Exposition Song, because it's just exposition lol
”No wait.."
And then the First Slayer Kills Giles by scalping him, as he is the head.
The watch returns as he still controls Buffy and is a watcher. ”You never had a watcher." Ugh.
BUFFY:
Pretty much the most important dream of course, cause it's Buffy.
Buffy wakes up after Anya begs her in the exact room Faith and her prepared for Dawn, down to the posters.
Buffy : ”Faith and I just made that bed."
Tara: ”For who?" (Little sister)
Buffy: ”I thought you were here to tell me."
Then:
Buffy: It's so late.
Tara: Oh. That clocks completely wrong. (It was now 360 days until Buffy's death, it's not getting late, it's nearly there)
There is then a reference to Buffy being the Hand (fighter) and a direct quote of the first Slayer from Intervention in season five from Tara.
The bed is suddenly made, all ready again.
Buffy leaves the room, and of course, Tara says:
”Be back before Dawn."
Buffy's mother being stuck in a wall might be reference to her tumor, or her separation from Buffy because of college. The mice thing makes me think it's the tumor 
Riley: Hey there killer. Another reference to what a Slayer is. The gun on the table pointed in her direction.
Adam without the monster is a BEAUTIFUL thing too.
Adam: Aggression is a natural human tendency, though you and me come by it another way.
Buffy:
Adam: Is that a fact? (Of course we later learn in season seven that Slayers are in fact, made from demons)
Then some funny, and the demons start coming, and Buffy has her weapons. But her weapon is the Slayer itself; the mud on her face, the essence of what she is.
I do love the color shift here. She is a slayer, at her core, but different. She has people that help and care for her, and isn't alone. Riley, seeing what she is, leaves her. Which of course, happens to everyone's delight in season five.
An then, my favorite scene.
The hallway to sand. The desert. This might be because the desert is where I grew up. But anyhow.
Buffy has her first conversation with the First slayer.
”Someone has to speak for her,"
”I have no speech, no name; I live in the action of death, the blood cry, the penetrating wound. I am destruction—absolute, alone."
What a slayer has been since Buffy became one.
”The Slayer does not walk in this world." After Buffy reminds her that she is not alone.
”I walk, I talk, I shop, I sneeze. I'm going to be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out, and I don't sleep on a bed of bones."
Buffy is NOT a mindless creature of destruction, even if it is the core of her nature.
Cheese Man and the Cheese in his hands. LIES JOSS. IT MEANS A LITTLE BIT, Buffy was the Hand.
They fight of course, Buffy wins, and then the First Slayer stabs her in her arms, which is interesting. Buffy ignores her, and the dream breaks. ”You are not the source of me." Except sorry Buffy, she is.
There endth the lesson on Restless. There is TONS more, and I typed this up during a quick rewatch, but yeah. Sorry for going on and on.
OMWF.
Foreshadowing in Once More with Feeling You Say? I say yes.
Much subtler of course than the other foreshadowing. Tara on the stairs (which for some reason mean death in this show), singing about leaving. Spike hitting a dead end on his way to ‘save' Buffy. Spike grabbing a priest and begging for 'sweet release'. Spike saying 'Someday he'll be a real boy.'
"first he'll kill her, then I'll save her." was a reference to the tear-jerking "Every night I save you" speech from Spike earlier in the season. and OW OW OW Also for the final battle Buffy is pretty much literally dressed in Spike's usual armor of leather coat and red shirt. They are wearing the same clothing, and he hadn't worn what fandom refered to as the 'red shirt of evil' in a long time before that.
I am sure there is more but this is already 6 pages and likely full of typos, so...I am done now. Enjoy if you like meta-analysis of foreshadowing. Point out if you think I am wrong.
SORRY FOR GOING ON AND ON. I AM A HUGE GEEK.
And now I am watching OMWF for the 150th time, thanks guys.
Here, a present:
https://youtu.be/5Xh8duZ1-j0
Sweet being an amazing villian and Dawn's hippy thing that made me feel weird even as a straight woman. "What I mean, I'm 15, so this Queen things illegal."
Great write-up.
I had known about the roles the main three play for Buffy, but never made the connection between that and the placement of the cheese. "Restless" is probably my second favorite episode.
Also, not a popular opinion (but one I know others hold): OMWF does absolutely nothing for me. I can appreciate the time and effort put into it, but other than that, nada.
I had known about the roles the main three play for Buffy, but never made the connection between that and the placement of the cheese. "Restless" is probably my second favorite episode.
Also, not a popular opinion (but one I know others hold): OMWF does absolutely nothing for me. I can appreciate the time and effort put into it, but other than that, nada.
Holy shit at that essay...
While I am constantly impressed by Restless, and just how much of the series is foreshadowed in that episode, I'm also a bit skeptical that some of these things were planned or just put together to resemble what was said after the fact.
For example: The death of Buffy. Joss never had firm plans to end the series on her death AND only wrote the Season 5 finale the way he did because he was in rapidly degrading negotiations with The WB.
Makes me think the "death is your gift" stuff was them circling around and figuring it out later, rather than epic foreshadowing.
Now all of the Dawn stuff with the Faith dream sequences? That shit I believe.
While I am constantly impressed by Restless, and just how much of the series is foreshadowed in that episode, I'm also a bit skeptical that some of these things were planned or just put together to resemble what was said after the fact.
For example: The death of Buffy. Joss never had firm plans to end the series on her death AND only wrote the Season 5 finale the way he did because he was in rapidly degrading negotiations with The WB.
Makes me think the "death is your gift" stuff was them circling around and figuring it out later, rather than epic foreshadowing.
Now all of the Dawn stuff with the Faith dream sequences? That shit I believe.
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