Triggerhappytel
Member
This is how I feel too. Sailing >>>>>> Twilight Realm.
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Twilight Princess is definitively better than Wind Waker
- Thread starter Regiruler
- Start date
This is how I feel too. Sailing >>>>>> Twilight Realm.
Wow! If only all of these aspects weren't stuck in the worst 3D Zelda game.
Alright, you won me over as far as that goes at least
Afraid you'll never convince me of LA's dominance though.
It's okay. Our owl cult will get you one day.
Wind Waker is a joy to look at; Twilight Princess constantly tricks you into thinking your dog kicked mud all over your TV.
WW is an adventure that feels very personal; TP is an obligation to people you barely know or care about.
WW's dungeons are far more memorable and fun than their reputation would have you believe; TP's get too much praise for silly, pointless things like "it's not a temple, it's an overly convoluted house! Wow!"
WW's Gannondorf actually exists and is, for once, threatening and cool; TP's is an afterthought. WW's final fight against him is an awesome-looking thrill from start to climactic end; TP's is a rehash of an earlier boss.
...And there's really no point of comparison to WW for this one, but one can't not mention that TP's wolf segments, especially the tear-gathering sections, are absolutely anti-fun, pacing-killing trash. Plus the snowboarding, on-rails flying bit, mandatory fishing... All kinds of weird, sharp turns that add little.
I'm not sure there's anything TP does better, honestly... Well, actually, the double clawshots are pretty cool, though far too limited. But cooler than WW's hookshot, I suppose. So that's something.
WW is an adventure that feels very personal; TP is an obligation to people you barely know or care about.
WW's dungeons are far more memorable and fun than their reputation would have you believe; TP's get too much praise for silly, pointless things like "it's not a temple, it's an overly convoluted house! Wow!"
WW's Gannondorf actually exists and is, for once, threatening and cool; TP's is an afterthought. WW's final fight against him is an awesome-looking thrill from start to climactic end; TP's is a rehash of an earlier boss.
...And there's really no point of comparison to WW for this one, but one can't not mention that TP's wolf segments, especially the tear-gathering sections, are absolutely anti-fun, pacing-killing trash. Plus the snowboarding, on-rails flying bit, mandatory fishing... All kinds of weird, sharp turns that add little.
I'm not sure there's anything TP does better, honestly... Well, actually, the double clawshots are pretty cool, though far too limited. But cooler than WW's hookshot, I suppose. So that's something.
I haven't played TP HD, so I can't speak in regards to any changes there..
However, between TP for Wii and WW for GC, I vastly prefer WW.
This can be boiled down to two things.. I rather like the colourful world of WW, and I absolutely loathed the required waggling of TP, which in part was because of my being left-handed and the game's inability to properly register any movement made.
I'm rather certain that the above complaint would be rendered void by the HD remaster of TP.. And eventually I'll get around to that, but for now WW will remain my favourite of the two.
However, between TP for Wii and WW for GC, I vastly prefer WW.
This can be boiled down to two things.. I rather like the colourful world of WW, and I absolutely loathed the required waggling of TP, which in part was because of my being left-handed and the game's inability to properly register any movement made.
I'm rather certain that the above complaint would be rendered void by the HD remaster of TP.. And eventually I'll get around to that, but for now WW will remain my favourite of the two.
smashballTaz
Member
I have finished Wind Waker, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword. They are all fantastic games. I absolutely fell in love with the characters and story of Skyward Sword, other than the intense hand-holding it's hard for me to grasp why people seem to dislike it so much.
Is genuinely hard for me to pick a favourite.
Is genuinely hard for me to pick a favourite.
I gotta say, I like the "save my sister" angle, very cute to see a Link with an actual loving family. The beginning of the game where he waved at his granny when leaving outset island actually put a tear in my eye.
I like Skyward Sword but "dem bosses"?🙄
I disagree. They're both mid-tier Zelda games but I'd still give the edge to WW. The Great Sea is just pure Nintendo whimsy at it's best. The great sea is also full of secrets and I actually quite enjoy the sailing. By comparison TP can't decide whether it wants to retain that Nintendo whimsy or go full generic, dark fantasy and the two never really mesh together quite right. The game's rendition of Hyrule is so lifeless and empty.
Sky Walker
Member
It sure is OP. While WW is great game and I liked it: It has only 4 dungeons and their overall design is the weakest "from the puzzles to the level design" if you compared it to TP dungeons or any other 3D Zelda. Sailing feels cool at first but then it becomes redundant as there is not so much to do and exploring it isn't that rewarding. Not to mention the Triforce quest at the end of the game is the worst of all, even the HD ver modifications couldn't help it.
I always felt it was the weakest among the whole 3D Zelda entry.
Pankratous
Member
Twilight Princess is my favourite Zelda ever.
Shin Johnpv
Member
For me TP is by far the better game.
KojiKnight
Member
Back on the topic at hand, I honestly think the only thing WW really needed was you have the ocean open up much much sooner. Nothing like getting the boat and wind Waker and being blue balled by the talking figure had telling you you can't explore yet.
The ocean begged to be explored... Meanwhile Hyrule Field in TP felt like a chore. Calling Epona was a chore. Running or fighting mounted enemies? Chore.
The rest? I honestly don't remember... The game was super forgettable to me. I beat the game, I remember the ending. I remember the ages it took to get out of the village. I remember the big headed shop keeper kid... And to this day I have nightmares about ooccoo. That's it.
This.
The ocean begged to be explored... Meanwhile Hyrule Field in TP felt like a chore. Calling Epona was a chore. Running or fighting mounted enemies? Chore.
The rest? I honestly don't remember... The game was super forgettable to me. I beat the game, I remember the ending. I remember the ages it took to get out of the village. I remember the big headed shop keeper kid... And to this day I have nightmares about ooccoo. That's it.
This.
One of the best things about the Zelda series is that everyone has different favourites, experienced the games in different time periods of their lives, and I think we can all agree that they are mostly top notch games.
Here are my Zelda opinions which you may agree or disagree with.
I loved Twilight Princess. I loved Skyward Sword. After comapring the two I like Twilight Princess more, despite Skyward Sword having Groose and an awesome Zelda!
Here is my opinion that goes against the majority....... I can't get on with Wind Waker, the dungeon design is good, but I dislike the characters and can't stand the ocean.
Ocarina of Time meant the most to me at the time, and was a big part of my life, but I enjoy playing TP or SS more these days.
Here are my Zelda opinions which you may agree or disagree with.
I loved Twilight Princess. I loved Skyward Sword. After comapring the two I like Twilight Princess more, despite Skyward Sword having Groose and an awesome Zelda!
Here is my opinion that goes against the majority....... I can't get on with Wind Waker, the dungeon design is good, but I dislike the characters and can't stand the ocean.
Ocarina of Time meant the most to me at the time, and was a big part of my life, but I enjoy playing TP or SS more these days.
epicnemesis
Member
TP had some serious pacing issues and the world sucked, but it had by far the best dungeons and boss fights in any zelda game.
Its always hard to retroactively rate the series, so you have to rate it based on how strongly you felt about the game when you first played it*
*with the exception Majora's Mask which really took a leap in enjoyment when I played it years later.
Its always hard to retroactively rate the series, so you have to rate it based on how strongly you felt about the game when you first played it*
*with the exception Majora's Mask which really took a leap in enjoyment when I played it years later.
Azure Phoenix
Member
It bugs me when I see people singing the praises of Snowpeak, aside from the setting being a bit different there was nothing special about it. At one point during that dungeon there is a puzzle that could literally be solved by Link carrying an item through a door into the other room, but no, he has to put it down before walking through - at that point I realised that the formula had gone stale.
Nah, I finished replaying it a short time ago. The Wind Temple is the worst "final" dungeon in any Zelda game, tedious and boring without any real challenge.
megashock5
Member
Love them both, but the stealth/barrel section of WW keeps me from playing through it again.
The camera just isn't good enough to know where the guards are, which makes it painful. Other than that, they're both fantastic and have their own charm.
The camera just isn't good enough to know where the guards are, which makes it painful. Other than that, they're both fantastic and have their own charm.
I don't know why, but apart from the very good mansion dungeon, i feel like i forgot nearly all dungeon from TP... And i rememebr nearly all from Wind Waker, OOT, Majora's Mask and even Skyward Sword.
I think that's because despite them being quite big, the dungeon in Twilight Princess always have the same kind of pattern, Mark Brown really nailed it in his video. (Which probably have already been quoted but, oh well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTsgWepH3GY )
And for the rest, Wind Waker was his own expereience yeah, even if i don't like staring at the sea so much, at least it was something i didn't do in OOT. The overworld cut in 4 piece in Twilight Princess felt so much more empty to me....
I think that's because despite them being quite big, the dungeon in Twilight Princess always have the same kind of pattern, Mark Brown really nailed it in his video. (Which probably have already been quoted but, oh well... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTsgWepH3GY )
And for the rest, Wind Waker was his own expereience yeah, even if i don't like staring at the sea so much, at least it was something i didn't do in OOT. The overworld cut in 4 piece in Twilight Princess felt so much more empty to me....
iShouldGoPro
Member
It makes my heart light up that the majority of this thread has good taste.
WW is far superior.
I couldn't even finish TP.
The game is unoriginal and I think that's because... of us.
Nintendo wanted to replicate a "mature" legend of Zelda game for the fans that cried like babies after the reveal of toon link and didn't want to try out an actually good Zelda game.
WW is vast and unique. Every island was fun to explore and discover. It brought some great characters to the table and the boss battles were awesome.
WW is better. No question
WW is far superior.
I couldn't even finish TP.
The game is unoriginal and I think that's because... of us.
Nintendo wanted to replicate a "mature" legend of Zelda game for the fans that cried like babies after the reveal of toon link and didn't want to try out an actually good Zelda game.
WW is vast and unique. Every island was fun to explore and discover. It brought some great characters to the table and the boss battles were awesome.
WW is better. No question
Glass Rebel
Member
Not as silly as the constant praise WW gets for its "exploration".
brandonh83
Banned
My man. Skyward is incredible.
While I like the dungeons overall in Twilight Princess, the problem that has been forgotten with them is that the game just straight up either copies puzzles from past Zelda games or the items in dungeons just exist not for actual new puzzles but to gate you from progressing further. Snowpeak is a perfect example of that where the item you get contributes nothing to the puzzle solving but is just there to destroy some ice blocks that stood in your way. While it has the most dungeon content in the series I feel like the dungeons in OoT and Skyward Sword quality is way superior and as a result overall way better.
Especially Skyward Sword has in my opinion stepped it up big time in that regard as while it has still these extreme pacing flaws like Twilight Princess plus Fii existing, its dungeon content is way more clever, original & novel than any past Zelda game.
Wind Waker is not even in the discussion. The dungeons are straight up of bad quality and actively annoying.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Better than Wind Waker? Maybe. Better than Wind Waker HD? No way. By the end I just wanted it to be over.
Vital Tundra
Member
Yeah for the most part. WW has the charm though.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Skyward Sword is better than both.
Breath of the Wild is better than all three.
Breath of the Wild is better than all three.
Polioliolio
Member
Eew, hell no.
And ya know what.. I loved the sea in Wind Waker. Loved it! The only thing wrong with it is there's no fish or animals in it.
And ya know what.. I loved the sea in Wind Waker. Loved it! The only thing wrong with it is there's no fish or animals in it.
On paper Twilight princess does have a lot going for it.
However compared to wind waker it sometimes feels derivative and half baked.
Wolf Link isn't great. The beginning isn't great. The overworld isn't quite as interesting.
However you are right in saying it has some areas where it's design is way more interesting like the dungeons, items, and bosses.
Wind Waker edges out for me because it is ultimately a more charming and memorable experience.
However compared to wind waker it sometimes feels derivative and half baked.
Wolf Link isn't great. The beginning isn't great. The overworld isn't quite as interesting.
However you are right in saying it has some areas where it's design is way more interesting like the dungeons, items, and bosses.
Wind Waker edges out for me because it is ultimately a more charming and memorable experience.
brandonh83
Banned
There's more to the dungeon than that and the music and atmosphere is also fantastic. Sometimes just a setting along with figuring your way through is enough, and while maybe not all puzzles were genius, it had a lot of very good ones across the game.
I feel like I'm the only one who enjoyed exploring TP's overworld. Though the lack of anything to find kind of spoils it. The hidden grottos are a miss too since you need to be up close to see them so sometimes it's easy to just run past one without realising. They're also usually located in the middle of the field rather than a place that you're curiosity will draw you to.
This is why I appreciate the Koroks in BotW. It's a neat reward for just going off the beaten track and stumbling upon an interesting looking corner of the world. (I wonder how my feelings of the past 3D Zelda games will change when I revisit them after playing this game...)
They could have done something with TPHD and placed new chests with the stamps around the world to add something to find to reward exploring. Unfortunately they just replaced the contents of preexisting chests.
This is why I appreciate the Koroks in BotW. It's a neat reward for just going off the beaten track and stumbling upon an interesting looking corner of the world. (I wonder how my feelings of the past 3D Zelda games will change when I revisit them after playing this game...)
They could have done something with TPHD and placed new chests with the stamps around the world to add something to find to reward exploring. Unfortunately they just replaced the contents of preexisting chests.
the reverence the wind waker gets is baffling. the game is strong on a presentation level and that's it. the hd remake did a lot to alleviate some of the pacing issues, but does nothing to fix some of the more core problems caused by rushing the game out to the market. the dungeon design, specifically stuff like returning to the forsaken fortress, is just pretty bad at times.
nice story, good characters, memorable art direction... but that doesn't make for a good game. it makes for good window dressing.
tww is strangely a prototype for breath of the wild. the 3d zeldas all were in a way - nintendo's been chasing that open world 3d zelda for a really long time. i think they more or less nailed it with botw, and were lacking in the department that makes tww memorable for people.
twilight princess feels pretty good though. the first dungeon's fairly meh, but the remaining eight or so work really well. i even liked hyrule castle (which pales in comparison to botw's now). the game feels like ocarina of time with worse pacing, but the best dungeon design. and midna is good enough to carry the story on the presentation side.
nice story, good characters, memorable art direction... but that doesn't make for a good game. it makes for good window dressing.
tww is strangely a prototype for breath of the wild. the 3d zeldas all were in a way - nintendo's been chasing that open world 3d zelda for a really long time. i think they more or less nailed it with botw, and were lacking in the department that makes tww memorable for people.
twilight princess feels pretty good though. the first dungeon's fairly meh, but the remaining eight or so work really well. i even liked hyrule castle (which pales in comparison to botw's now). the game feels like ocarina of time with worse pacing, but the best dungeon design. and midna is good enough to carry the story on the presentation side.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Twilight Princess looks a lot better too, skip.
... lol
Twilight Princess has:
-The worst intro in a Zelda game to date
-HERDING CATTLE
-Stale overworld with zero sense of adventure
-Melodramatic story
-Terrible villain
-Dreary visuals that have aged to shit
Boring, generic character and enemy designs
Items that become meaningless after their respective dungeon
-Shitty characters
-Ooca
-Melodramatic story
-The forest temple, lakebed temple, city in the sky, palace of twilight, hyrule castle - all trash dungeons
-Midna turns gross at the end 0/10 WORST GAEM EVAR
I'm a big fan of TP - I'd possibly put it in my top 5 - but lol no. WW is infinitely more charming, has a way more exciting exploration factor, way more fluid combat, better design overall, a way better story and villain, better music, etc etc
There seems to be a shared criticism for WW's dungeons, but personally I enjoyed them all. They stand out to me in positive ways similar to some of the great dungeons of TP...but I suppose I'm alone in that opinion. Still doesn't make TP a better overall game than WW, imo.
Twilight Princess has:
-The worst intro in a Zelda game to date
-HERDING CATTLE
-Stale overworld with zero sense of adventure
-Melodramatic story
-Terrible villain
-Dreary visuals that have aged to shit
Boring, generic character and enemy designs
Items that become meaningless after their respective dungeon
-Shitty characters
-Ooca
-Melodramatic story
-The forest temple, lakebed temple, city in the sky, palace of twilight, hyrule castle - all trash dungeons
-Midna turns gross at the end 0/10 WORST GAEM EVAR
I'm a big fan of TP - I'd possibly put it in my top 5 - but lol no. WW is infinitely more charming, has a way more exciting exploration factor, way more fluid combat, better design overall, a way better story and villain, better music, etc etc
There seems to be a shared criticism for WW's dungeons, but personally I enjoyed them all. They stand out to me in positive ways similar to some of the great dungeons of TP...but I suppose I'm alone in that opinion. Still doesn't make TP a better overall game than WW, imo.
DieNgamers
Member
Twilight Princess is a vastly inferior game to me. It's baffling how Nintendo got so many things wrong after being on the right path with WW.
- No sense of adventure
- 6 hours of intro on rails
- Ugly in most parts
- Tries to be "dark" but just feels grey (or brown)...Majora's Mask succeeded where this one fails
- Controls and animations feel clunky as hell.
- Annoying dungeon design. WW's were easy but they had a certain flow to them and used mechanics in a more intuitive way. TP constantly stops the flow and holds your hand
- Much less memorable characters
- Fucking Twilight Realm
There are some cool moments (everything involving Zoras and that snow dungeon with the creepy Yetis) but overall I was shocked how bad TP aged compared to WW.
Here it comes... Skyward Sword has its own problems but it's better than both of them.
- No sense of adventure
- 6 hours of intro on rails
- Ugly in most parts
- Tries to be "dark" but just feels grey (or brown)...Majora's Mask succeeded where this one fails
- Controls and animations feel clunky as hell.
- Annoying dungeon design. WW's were easy but they had a certain flow to them and used mechanics in a more intuitive way. TP constantly stops the flow and holds your hand
- Much less memorable characters
- Fucking Twilight Realm
There are some cool moments (everything involving Zoras and that snow dungeon with the creepy Yetis) but overall I was shocked how bad TP aged compared to WW.
Here it comes... Skyward Sword has its own problems but it's better than both of them.
Flakster99
Member
I couldn't agree more. Pound for pound I found more highs in Twilight Princess than Wind Waker and the lows were less than Wind Waker. Both good games, though yeah, Twilight Princess >>>> Wind Waker.
People says Twilight Princess is all brown and yet the opening it pretty green, the twilight realm is full of purples, Lake Hylia is lovely and blue. It's obviously not as colourful as Wind Waker, but it's not like to was sapped of all colour.
Really, it's only Kakariko Village that can truly be described as overly brown due to the combination of being in a rocky area surrounded by rust.
Really, it's only Kakariko Village that can truly be described as overly brown due to the combination of being in a rocky area surrounded by rust.
brandonh83
Banned
No sense of adventure in Twilight Princess now? Come the fuck on.
Pretty much every complaint I see about Zelda games are exaggerated as hell. Not all of them, but certainly a fair share, especially when it comes to Skyward Sword.
Pretty much every complaint I see about Zelda games are exaggerated as hell. Not all of them, but certainly a fair share, especially when it comes to Skyward Sword.
That's some racist stuff brah
Flame Lord
Member
Windwaker is massively over hyped. It had the potential to be great but them rushing it out fucked it over hard. It doesn't have that many dungeons, and of the ones it has the only one I found kind of challenging was the one of the last ones you took the Makar through. The Triforce gathering part is fucking AWFUL. I remember when I first played the game and got to that part I literally stopped playing the game for a year before I came back and finished it, and they really only slightly improved it in the HD version, it was still pretty bad there. Even the final dungeon was a fucking joke. A boss rush wouldn't have been so bad if it was at the end of an actual dungeon, but it was all there was to it, and the fact that you couldn't even use your newer gear on old bosses made it feel completely pointless.
Windwaker to me is honestly probably the worst of the mainline Zelda games I played. It had a lot of stuff going for it but I can't ignore the low dungeon count, the fact that they're all piss easy and that Triforce gathering trash. I think the only reason it gets put up so high for people is it's art style, which is great, but that's about the only thing going for it. TP is kind of the inverse of WW to me, I don't like the artstyle, everyone in it but Zelda, Link and like two other NPCs look like freaks, but at least it has a decent amount of dungeons, and most of them more challenging than what Windwaker has to offer.
Windwaker to me is honestly probably the worst of the mainline Zelda games I played. It had a lot of stuff going for it but I can't ignore the low dungeon count, the fact that they're all piss easy and that Triforce gathering trash. I think the only reason it gets put up so high for people is it's art style, which is great, but that's about the only thing going for it. TP is kind of the inverse of WW to me, I don't like the artstyle, everyone in it but Zelda, Link and like two other NPCs look like freaks, but at least it has a decent amount of dungeons, and most of them more challenging than what Windwaker has to offer.
Ocarina_117
Banned
You know the constant discussions amongst Zelda fans ranking their favourite entries is always something I love reading.
Speaks volumes for the consistently high quality of a series spanning 30 years.
The release of BoTW seems to have revolutionised the series,
, once again and I'm excited for it's future.
Speaks volumes for the consistently high quality of a series spanning 30 years.
The release of BoTW seems to have revolutionised the series,
not gaming
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Wow, we might be setting a new record in being totally wrong here!
I accept that some people wanted yet-another-Zelda, with the same focus on complex dungeons etc, but I absolutely did not. BotW is amazing, and pretty much everything I've dreamt a Zelda game could be. And I violently disagree that it's basically just Skyrim with a Zelda skin.
I hope they continue developing this formula in the future, and that they never again go back to how every Zelda since OoT has been structured.