Except in real life we avoid looking at the sun. When watching a 2D panel in my home, I don't want to be made to look away from the display. That's is simply taking it too far and I'll have turned HDR off if that's where we wind up. Hopefully more players follow Oppo in including a strip metadata feature while passing Rec. 2020.
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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED
- Thread starter BumRush
- Start date
Except in real life we avoid looking at the sun. When watching a 2D panel in my home, I don't want to be made to look away from the display. That's is simply taking it too far and I'll have turned HDR off if that's where we wind up. Hopefully more players follow Oppo in including a strip metadata feature while passing Rec. 2020.
Metalingus5150
Member
I can't even imagine that. lol It's interesting where the future of this tech will take us.
Art Vandilay
Member
Watch an episode of a show like Modern Family and see if it looks normal to you. They're panning the camera like 90% of that show. I believe it's fixable though.
Art Vandilay
Member
FWIW, the 3D glasses that came with my Panny plasma looked like sunglasses.
vpance
Member
4K nits should be more than enough in home theater setups. 10K will be for the people who want to watch movies on their patio outside.
Or use it as a bug zapper.
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
I'm getting a 49 inch Sony 900e. My current TV is a 46 inch Sony Bravia from 2009. How big of a leap should I expect? Lol
Based_legend24
Neo Member
Would anyone recommend the Best Buy calibration service? I'm located in the Bay Area so if you know any calibrating services in the east bay, you can let me know as well. Thanks.
SwordStruck
Member
Haven't followed this in a while but looking to get a new model soon, are the B6P and KS8000 still the ones to go for (HDR, <$2000)? Leaning towards the B6P because of the OLED screen but that'll mean a 55" instead of tje 65" Samsung.
Hey everyone
I own a full HD 58 Pana plasma (VT11 if I'm not mistaken, bought around 2010).
How much difference will I see if I upgrade (or downgrade,who knows) to a 55 4k Samsung KS 6000 ?
Will I miss the deep blacks? Will the brightness make up for it? Will the HDr or the res? Sizewise am I screwed ?
Not sure what to do but wanna be ready for Scorpio.
OLED is out of the question ($$$).
I own a full HD 58 Pana plasma (VT11 if I'm not mistaken, bought around 2010).
How much difference will I see if I upgrade (or downgrade,who knows) to a 55 4k Samsung KS 6000 ?
Will I miss the deep blacks? Will the brightness make up for it? Will the HDr or the res? Sizewise am I screwed ?
Not sure what to do but wanna be ready for Scorpio.
OLED is out of the question ($$$).
Z9D is around 26ms input lag on a 4K source with or without HDR if I remember correctly, how does that compare to the E6? For some reason I thought the E6 had worse input lag, that was a consideration for me too as I was choosing between the same two TVs.I would have bought the Sony ZD9 if not for the subpar input lag. It's the best display released last year. It's fucking crazy how many dimming zones it has and how good their processing is at eliminating any halo effects. I still remember how FALD looked in 2008 when I bought my Samsung A959 LCD. Their flagship at the time with I believe like 64 dimming zones. It was certainly impressive but the halo effects and high input lag were killing me. As such it's life in my home was short lived and replaced in 2010 by a Pioneer KRP-600M (to this day still the best display I have ever owned).
I was watching Pan in HDR at a friends house. I was sad when I went back home and watched it on my LG E6. Looked like some dim dull shit. OLED has a long way to go for HDR and I'm not sure they will be able to ever catch up in nits. I blame the fucking EU. If it weren't for their stupid energy labels technology would be further ahead.
Like imagine this shot from Sunshine on a Sony ZD9 if they ever remastered that movie in HDR.
You would probably need sunglasses to watch this scene at max light output.
Haha! That's an awesome shot, I'd love to see it on the Z. The thing is though, not all of that shot would be insanely bright, only the highlights, the parts that appear white in that image.
Life of Pi has some excellent scenes to show off HDR which have similar colours to that shot. Lots of sun stuff.
Maybe if you saw it in person you'd think differently, it's never uncomfortable to watch. But everyone is going to have a different preference / tolerance. Having that much extra brightness for the highlights just helps with HDR. If the content is being mastered at 1,000, 2,000 or 10,000 nits, how is it counter intuitive to get as close to that as possible?
Oh boy, tell me about it! I've been eagerly anticipating that 4K Blu Ray
I haven't seen the show at all yet, I'm pretty excited to check it out!You mean the Panasonic V10 series from 09. There was no VT10 (or 11 for that matter). Also there is no KS 6000 so you are getting your model numbers a bit mixed up here. I assume you are talking about the cheap and widely popular KS8000 series in the US.
If so no the blacks won't be a downgrade. In fact the V10 couldn't display very deep blacks to begin with. Factor in the multiple black level rises your set had over the years and I'd say it's more grey than black now. To put up some numbers. The Panny plasma had a level of 0.04 cd/m2 which is the same the Samsung has today. Basically everything else will be miles better, black levels will be a match for what your set had back when it was new.
BriareosGAF
Member
Right, and of course in addition to duration it's an issue of screen coverage. Maximum brightness as described currently I believe is something like M% of screen for N seconds where I don't remember what N is, but it's not long, and M is like 10%. You can imagine how energy saving requirements, etc., affect all of this too.
Energy consumption and the generated heat due to that and energy saving requirements are obviously the biggest obstacles. I recall that the 4000 nits monitor from Dolby is currently liquid cooled (obviously not a consumer market option) and it has a power draw that would probably would make it illegal to sell it in Europe.
Metalingus5150
Member
When's the TV coming in? Gonna give us impressions? lol
RadarScope1
Member
Awesome. I was worried about this reading some of the last few pages. Still hoping I can get one this year.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
There's a KU6000 series.
Art Vandilay
Member
What is the consensus at to brightness on the B6 for regular SDR content? Using the Xbox One calibration, it has my brightness at 55 which seems a bit high. Gamma is 2.2, contrast is 92, OLED light is 47.
Most calibrations I see are 50-53.. I have 51, Contrast 85, Gamma 2.2
55 and I felt like it starts to veer towards too gray in the blacks ever so slightly
On another note..
What is ARC exactly? I know it's "Audio Return Channel" so I assume the HDMI out of a 4K receiver would have to go in to this one?
I'm running my console and PC through to HDMI directly to the TV for now (while I save for a receiver).. and have one in HDMI ARC.. all my HDMI Inputs are getting sound via Optical out of the B6 to my receiver right now so wasn't sure what ARC is doing exactly.
Am I correct about ARC just being the one that gets fed from the receiver or is there something else I'm missing?
What is ARC exactly? I know it's "Audio Return Channel" so I assume the HDMI out of a 4K receiver would have to go in to this one?
I'm running my console and PC through to HDMI directly to the TV for now (while I save for a receiver).. and have one in HDMI ARC.. all my HDMI Inputs are getting sound via Optical out of the B6 to my receiver right now so wasn't sure what ARC is doing exactly.
Am I correct about ARC just being the one that gets fed from the receiver or is there something else I'm missing?
It means you can unplug that optical cable from your B6 because the ARC sends the sound to your receiver from the TV including from other devices plugged into it. Stereo and DD5.1 only.
Art Vandilay
Member
Thanks, is your OLED light still at 45?
I finally found the review of the Z9D that tested input lag on 4K / 4K HDR sources if anyone else is interested. I was 1ms off, it's actually 27ms, which is still pretty decent, and should dispel the notion that Z9D suffers from poor input lag for gaming.
https://hdtvpolska.com/sony-zd9-kd-65zd9-test-flagowy-telewizor-ultra-hd-z-direct-led-i-hdr/
https://hdtvpolska.com/sony-zd9-kd-65zd9-test-flagowy-telewizor-ultra-hd-z-direct-led-i-hdr/
Although based on that explanation I would be using up an HDMI port for just audio out then correct?
No you can have for example your PS4 plugged into it and it works like normal when using it.
Where ARC comes into play is when using the smart TV apps like Netflix, Amazon etc. Sure you could use optical out to get your sound to the receiver but that is one cable too many. It's also used to send TV audio to the receiver when using the internal tuner to watch regular TV.
I finally found the review of the Z9D that tested input lag on 4K / 4K HDR sources if anyone else is interested. I was 1ms off, it's actually 27ms, which is still pretty decent, and should dispel the notion that Z9D suffers from poor input lag for gaming.
https://hdtvpolska.com/sony-zd9-kd-65zd9-test-flagowy-telewizor-ultra-hd-z-direct-led-i-hdr/
If only I had a few grand lying around!
vpance
Member
Probably if Rec. 709 doesn't ring a bell for you in regards to SDR content.
Probably will have tears in your eyes and cursing yourself why you waited so long. Almost 8 years of technology change. Wait till you see HDR for the first time.
That's the exact opposite of what should be happening. Horizon should look jaw dropping in HDR with amazing contrast and colours.
You must be having a setting mismatch. Is your HDMI port set to enhanced? HDR and RGB settings on your PS4 set okay?
I'm about to buy a KS8000 from Costco in a few days. I know it's not OLED, but I'm not goign to spend $2500+ on a 65 inch OLED. I'll reassess 3-4 years from now when there's more competition and I can get razor thin 75 inch OLED TVs for $2,000.
I currently have the 55UT50 Panny plasma from 2013. I know the Samsung KS8000 has great picture quality, but I'm assuming that my Plasma will still be much better for films because of the deep blacks? What should I be expecting in terms of picture quality differences?
Thanks.
I currently have the 55UT50 Panny plasma from 2013. I know the Samsung KS8000 has great picture quality, but I'm assuming that my Plasma will still be much better for films because of the deep blacks? What should I be expecting in terms of picture quality differences?
Thanks.
As I had mentioned, I am using it like a 'regular' HDMI port and just have a console plugged in to it.
Your explanation sounds the same as the other response. I could either use it as an audio out to my receiver (as opposed to optical) to get sound from the TV apps and consoles..or just plug a console in to the port and have audio out via optical where I still get sound from TV apps and consoles. What am I missing?
Again, I do not have a 4K receiver so my consoles (and PC) have to be plugged to the TV.. I'm using my receiver as a stereo receiver basically. I don't see how using up an HDMI port for Audio Out via ARC benefits me in this situation.. either way I have audio in to my receiver.. but with the ARC route I lose an HDMI port for video...but it sounds like I'm not getting an important part here..
I actually have it at 40 now.
I can't fathom how people think OLED won't get bright enough for them.. at 40 in a dim room (no windows) it is bright to me.. I run my 4K computer MUCH more dim.
When I had some beers while playing Zelda I bumped OLED Brightness up to 60 for fun and I felt like I was sucked in to the world.. but the next day my eyes felt fatigued as if they had been peeled open for a while (or I was fatigued because of beer).
I did enable hdr on my HDMI port and enabled her on my ps4 and out RGB in automatic. Even my girlfriend commented saying "why does the picture look so much worse now?" After I enabled hdr.
Art Vandilay
Member
Agreed, these sets are definitely bright enough for me. My issue is just with the getting rid of black crush. The image is really dim in HDR or at least that's how it seems when playing HZD. Think I may have to turn on dynamic contrast.
Edit: I bumped brightness up to 52 and it looks much, much better in HDR without having to turn on dynamic contrast. Not sure if this is a panel specific issue or not.
Yeah, I can't either, it can get incredibly bright. I actually run my C6 at 35 and it's plenty bright, also brighter than what I run on my other displays.
Perhaps some just don't let their eyes adjust, as most displays out of box pop, thus in comparison, any tweaking downwards would look initially dull.
Edit re HDR/Horizon above^
Dynamic contrast helps, I'd have to check my settings but I was able to get a good picture eventually, as it was also a bit dull for me. Doesn't help due to how the game looks naturally in SDR on these OLEDs. Was hard to see benefits until after a fair bit of tweaking.
I agree that the outrage of how bright, or dim, these OLEDs are is way overblown. Although, unlike you guys I keep my OLED light at 100.
Also earlier in the thread I complained about the motion handling of the b6 OLED (motion blur), but after turning down de-judder to a 3 from 10, it improved a bit. Still not perfect, but better than before.
It is just one less cable with ARC. I used ARC on my E6 with a receiver and it has less power than going over optical imo. So I have to turn my receiver louder on hdmi ARC.
holygeesus
Banned
The poster before was mentioning motion issues with games specifically though. Again, motion is not an issue with gaming. Sure, motion resolution isn't the greatest, but you have instant pixel response, with OLED, so you don't get the smearing you do with LCD sets, so I have no idea what the other poster was referring to, as these sets have the best motion in gaming, since CRT.
That's all the while not even mentioning the lack of DSE and blooming that LCDs feature both. OLEDs are perfectly suited to gaming.
Also I truly recommend not using any TrueMotion settings when gaming as they will lead to very laggy controls and increased response times.
I was referring to the motion resolution, not pixel response time. It's incredibly low, especially for a 4k television. What makes it more frustrating is that OLEDs have near instant pixel response times so in theory, they could have the best motion handling on the market.
holygeesus
Banned
The point is that the instant pixel response mitigates the low motion resolution.
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-usage/video-gaming/best
http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-usage/hdr-gaming/best
If you were using non-HDR game mode then you were using wide color gamut, which over saturates colors.
holygeesus
Banned
Doesn't HDR Game default to wide too though? I know you can change it in HDR mode and can't in regular 'Game'
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I still can't beleive the 2017 models from Samsung are worse than last year's KS 8000/9000.
Everything from Black levels to brightness levels and peak in both SDR and HDR modes, even the input lag and sound.
I posted about this in a previous post:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q7f
Even Samsung acknowledged that issue and they are investigating that issue. I hope it is not another Galaxy S7 issue where all the units will be pulled back from the market for being defective.
It seems the whole QLED tech in much behind OLED and even LED in almost every aspect because the tech itself is still LCD: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-type/qled-vs-oled-vs-led
Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp2WYhB_7dM
I wonder if they are going to release a new line this year that aren't QLED, just like the KS 8000/9000 but newer models with improved settings or are they going to improve the QLED models. Also why only very wide screens this year? No standard size like 48 inches which cost much less and are kinda affordable.
Everything from Black levels to brightness levels and peak in both SDR and HDR modes, even the input lag and sound.
I posted about this in a previous post:
http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/q7f
Even Samsung acknowledged that issue and they are investigating that issue. I hope it is not another Galaxy S7 issue where all the units will be pulled back from the market for being defective.
It seems the whole QLED tech in much behind OLED and even LED in almost every aspect because the tech itself is still LCD: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-type/qled-vs-oled-vs-led
Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp2WYhB_7dM
I wonder if they are going to release a new line this year that aren't QLED, just like the KS 8000/9000 but newer models with improved settings or are they going to improve the QLED models. Also why only very wide screens this year? No standard size like 48 inches which cost much less and are kinda affordable.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
It is a mystery. Maybe they rushed them out? Who know.....For the prices they are asking for QLED, I expected them to surpass the OLED, but well you know.
PLASTICA-MAN
Member
I couldn't find those models anywhere on the web, let alone a review for them. Can you link me to those? Thanks.
Someone told me their MU8500 looks bad too
From what I understood, according to this guide:
This year letter will be M. the MU models are the standard 4K models, the non SUHD models and possibily even without HDR10 like for the previous couple of years.
The top of the line non QLED models have to be the MS 8000/9000 but I never heard anything about them.