platypotamus
Member
Iconic Masters is just the reserved list with all cards having a new super type of "icon" so that they aren't exactly functional reprints.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Giant Panda
Member
👍👍👍
Old frames are obsolete.
It's right after AKH, yeah.
I'm starting to suspect the amount of products released this year will be just as high as last year.
Imperfected
Member
They already printed that Second Sun's Approach alternate win-con thing. Cast it, cycle seven with New Perspectives, cast it again.
Don't actually do this, by the way. This is like playing Blood Moon in friendly EDH multiplayer games. I don't care how good of an idea it looks like, it's not worth getting kicked repeatedly in the dick.
Definitely so. Also just call it DOMINARIA.
Reintroduce the plane and say "here's some old school cards"
The old frame masterpieces will be tweaked so they have the symbol and everything, count on it.
You don't need that jank. Cast it once, then cast it off of Aetherworks Marvel or vice-vesa.
I'm hoping for Beta templating, personally. Make them as wordy as possible
Imperfected
Member
If you're trying to make New Perspectives cycling a win condition you can't be worrying about jank. It's going to be jank, it's not really going to work, and everyone's going to hate you.
Also, don't vice-versa on Second Sun's Approach, there's a "cast from your hand" clause on it. (Probably don't play Second Sun's Approach to begin with, but make sure it's actually going to trigger the win condition if you do.)
Ah yeah the clause. So you have to free cast the first one earlier in the game (what you want to do anyway because 7 life is a huge swing) and then cast the second one normally. 7 mana is not terrible to get to.
haha this is a neat little clause
I foresee judge calls
Damn, I really want to make this jank. I mean it's possible to really get the win condition. You really just need to tutor up the second one after you cast the first.
Trying to build G/W Without Gideon Ally of Zendikar and Heart of Kiran feel's almost impossible =/ It's not so much the Mana cost of Heart of Kiran, but more the fact that it can't be crewed by Planeswalkers, So Nissa effectively does nothing, and turning on Rhonas is alot harder without Nissa around to pump your 3 power guys.
I mean is it an almost foregone conclusion that Heart, Felidar, Gideon are all getting banned or is there any chance that Gideon/Heart stick around
I mean is it an almost foregone conclusion that Heart, Felidar, Gideon are all getting banned or is there any chance that Gideon/Heart stick around
Cat or Saheeli is almost a sure thing, byt I think Gideon and Heart will stick around. I don't think Heart is that OP without Gideon to go with so if they ban one of those two I think it'll only be gideon.
Imperfected
Member
The actual cat part of copycat just seems like such a stupidly obvious ban I don't know why you wouldn't do it. Now that the set's going out of Draft rotation the card doesn't even matter to anyone outside of Copycat players in basically the entire world, whereas someone might fall on their head and decide to play Saheeli normally, hypothetically.
I think felidar guardian is more playable than saheeli by themselves, but I get why they'd ban the uncommon instead of the mythic rare.
Gideon is definitely the big draw of playing white at this point since Dromoka's Command rotated. G/B just seems safer as far as viability goes and now with Rhonas you have a shell that will be around until fall 2018.
I'm guessing Felidar and Gideon get banned this time around. Soon as Mardu started leaning heavily on Gideon is when that deck became too good.
I'd rather have cat over saheeli
divisionbyzorro
Member
People playing Gideon in the beta annoy me.
Of course, if he doesn't get banned...
Of course, if he doesn't get banned...
Ultimate_Trainer
Member
There's some stupid infinite combo stuff you can do with 2 cats and Panharmonicon. Cat should be the ban if they were doing the combo.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I'm fairly confident control will be a thing. However, after actually playing with the set, I think Kefnet isn't worth it. They gave us a beautiful long game draw spell with Pull From Tomorrow, so we don't need the Azure Mage effect to get inevitability through card advantage, and there are better wincons.
phase 1: drop Kefnet turn 3
phase 2: bounce Sunscorched Desert for the next 20 turns and counter everything
???
profit
eazy
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Gideon and Felidar Guardian are both getting the axe.
But Temur Tower has proved it can handle Gideons /wotc
I really hope it gets banned so I can buy some for cheaper.
charlequin
Banned
In Dominion we call these players "Village Idiots," lol.
It was, like, already solicited tho?
Yep, I wouldn't bet like good money on it, but I'd bet more than zero.
I'm curious how close to the actual old frames these would have to be for people to feel like they were legit.
There was never any indication whatsoever the number of products would decrease, just that the spacing might improve and there might be fewer randomized products.
If Iconic Masters is real, it probably means they swapped stuff around to put Commander in the summer and Masters sets going forward in the pre-Xmas season, which makes sense since they can promote Commander more easily in between blocks and because September to January is the longest gap in the Standard Expansion calendar so an alternate limited draft format can squeeze in there better than the spring. If that's the case it'd be an improvement to the spacing issue but leave the number of pack-based products the same as last year (four expansions and two supplementals.)
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The only source we have that they can't just print old frame cards is Maro, and frankly, Maro is frequently full of shit on non-design topics. Stick the holostamp where it is now on every card (bring up a little black oval around it), and who cares if its "machine readable." It's a bonus card in 1/144 packs. Invocations hardly look "machine readable" either.
pseudocaesar
Member
Im new to Magic, I went to the open day last week, and loved it. I got given the freebie decks to play with, but I am attempting to build my first deck. I love Green/Black, and am focussing on Shadows over Innistrad and Eldritch Moon to build my first deck with. I like the theme, and also would prefer to just build my first deck from one block. I have talked to some people at my local store, and they are telling me things like mana curves etc. I have a basic understanding of things, but want to know what to look for, what to avoid doing etc. How many cards in total I should have, ratio of lands/creatures etc. I have a few pre built decks I bought that I have played with, but really want to get in to building a deck of my own.
A Black Green deck from Shadows Over Innistrad block will primarily be based around delirium. You're going to want to run lots of cards with different types that can fill your graveyard to enable delirium quickly. Note: if a card has two types, like (Artifact Creatures) both will count for delirium.
Vessel of Nascency and Grapple with the Past are the two cards most typically used to hit delirium, since they both fill your graveyard and give you card selection.
As far as land to spell ratio and deck size: constructed decks are usually 60 cards. You can't go under 60 and you generally don't want to go over 60. You're limited to 4 copies of any one card (other than basic lands), so going over 60 just decreases your odds of drawing your good cards.
24 lands and 36 non-lands is a good baseline for most 60-card decks, but some decks want more or fewer lands. Control decks that look to slow the game down, for example, generally run more lands, because they need to make sure they play a land every turn to get to their big finishers and board wipes. Aggressive decks will usually run fewer lands because their curve is so low that they rarely need more than 3 or 4 lands in play to win the game. To start, I'd recommend sticking to 24 lands and adjusting as you get a grasp on if you're drawing too many or too few lands. One thing to keep in mind is that cards that search up lands, especially low-cost ones like Traverse the Ulvenwald and Attune with Aether are going to usually decrease the number of total lands you play, but increase the ratio of lands that tap for green you'll want to run.
Creature-wise, again, it varies from deck to deck. Control decks typically will run fewer than 10 creatures. Aggressive decks will run a lot of low-cost creatures. Most decks are going to want around 20 creatures (plus or minus 4). When considering creatures and other spells for a BG delirium deck, pay special attention to cards that benefit from having delirium and/or from being in the graveyard. Cards like Drownyard Temple and Haunted Dead are good, because they give you things to do with your mana even when you can't, or don't want to play cards from your hand. In the case of Haunted Dead, it also helps to turn Delirium on since you discard two cards into your graveyard.
One thing that beginners often ignore is removal. Putting a good amount of removal (ways to deal with your opponent's threats) in your deck is crucial. Magic is a game that, at it's best, has a lot of interaction. Be sure to include ways to interact with your opponent. Cards like Murder, Clip Wings and Kindly Stranger can help you deal with your opponent's problem creatures.
One last note that I like to stress for beginners: Unless they say otherwise, activated abilities can be used virtually whenever you want, even during an opponent's turn. It's a good idea to get into the habit of waiting as late as possible to activate abilities and cast instants to leave options open for yourself. You can wait until the end of your opponent's turn to activate Vessel of Nascency or cast Grapple with the Past, for instance. That way you're making your decisions with more information and you can shift your strategy more easily when things change. You can even activate abilities and cast instants in response to what the opponent is playing. In that case, your ability or instant will have its effect first, which could entirely mess up your opponent's plans.
SigmasonicX
Member
I would recommend focusing first on modifying the prebuilt decks you have. What cards do you think can be swapped out for outright better ones? Are there particular card interactions you like that you want the deck to focus more on? What can you learn about the decks through playing with them?
After that, look for cards or strategies you like, and then make decks from scratch based on them. People often turn their noses up at netdecking, but there's nothing wrong with doing that at your level. Look for interesting decks that use a strategy or cards you like, then just copy it as best you can, making appropriate swaps for price or availability.
Things like understanding mana curve past a beginner level are best done after the above, I feel.
EDIT: Kudos to Yeef for using inexpensive cards for examples.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Streamlining my cycler deck a bit.
Archfiend of ifnir laying down counters instead of eot -1/-1 is the real deal. I've killed gods by combining him with Yahenni's Expertise.
Archfiend of ifnir laying down counters instead of eot -1/-1 is the real deal. I've killed gods by combining him with Yahenni's Expertise.
splashing green just for Noose Constrictor and sideboard doesn't seem that great to me
I built a pretty similar deck, but splashing white for Cast Out instead - instant speed all-purpose removal (including gods) with W cycle sounds good to me
not too happy about the deck so far, though. it seems awfully vulnerable to aggro
e; nvm, I get it now - it's the drake haven/archfiend all-in combo
I built a pretty similar deck, but splashing white for Cast Out instead - instant speed all-purpose removal (including gods) with W cycle sounds good to me
not too happy about the deck so far, though. it seems awfully vulnerable to aggro
e; nvm, I get it now - it's the drake haven/archfiend all-in combo
TheBlackMarvel
Member
Yeah, I can agree with that. THey usually do a good job with the world building though.
Is it just me who sees Rhiana there?
I mean, they do change, just subtly.
did some testing with a B/W zombies deck, gotta say it's pretty fun. This is what I came up with so far
https://deckstats.net/deck-12910955-263cd889e8dbaabb9951e66020218c3e.html
Binding Mummy is surprisingly rather good in combination with the zombie token spawners. I don't think the double Oketras and Giddeons feel out of place at the moment, Oketra is easy to acticate in this deck. I had Dusk // Dawn in an earlier version for some mean blowouts + recursion but, well, with the lords and mimics and Giddeon emblem you end up killing your own board
any suggestions? More zombies? Scrounger? Fatal Push?
https://deckstats.net/deck-12910955-263cd889e8dbaabb9951e66020218c3e.html
Binding Mummy is surprisingly rather good in combination with the zombie token spawners. I don't think the double Oketras and Giddeons feel out of place at the moment, Oketra is easy to acticate in this deck. I had Dusk // Dawn in an earlier version for some mean blowouts + recursion but, well, with the lords and mimics and Giddeon emblem you end up killing your own board
any suggestions? More zombies? Scrounger? Fatal Push?
GregLombardi
Member
I can safely say this will not be the solution to the reserved list problem. If it were, they would have used it already.
Also if iconic masters is real then lightning bolt would almost assuredly be in it, no?
Imperfected
Member
What are the things on the reserved list they would even print if they could? (That people would care about, I mean. I guess there's about a hundred useless garbage creatures and ante cards on there.)
I mean, I can't imagine them wanting to have more Ancestral Recalls or Time Walks out in the wild, anyway.
I mean, I can't imagine them wanting to have more Ancestral Recalls or Time Walks out in the wild, anyway.
This is the list i'll be running at the SCG open in a week. Didn't screenshot a list because there's only one new card in the list.
G/R Pummeler
4 Attune with the Aether
4 Blossoming Defense
2 Rush of Adrenaline
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
3 Harnessed Lightning
3 Fling
4 Highspire Infusion
4 Invigorated Rampage
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Aether Hub
4 Game Trail
4 Botanical Sanctum
5 Forest
3 Mountain
The 2 restrictions I gave myself for building this list was everything must give energy if possible and all pump must be instant speed as to win with Fling in response to anything. There is also blue for dispel in my sideboard as counters will be the only way to stop my fling IIRC.
G/R Pummeler
4 Attune with the Aether
4 Blossoming Defense
2 Rush of Adrenaline
4 Servant of the Conduit
4 Voltaic Brawler
3 Harnessed Lightning
3 Fling
4 Highspire Infusion
4 Invigorated Rampage
4 Electrostatic Pummeler
4 Bristling Hydra
4 Aether Hub
4 Game Trail
4 Botanical Sanctum
5 Forest
3 Mountain
The 2 restrictions I gave myself for building this list was everything must give energy if possible and all pump must be instant speed as to win with Fling in response to anything. There is also blue for dispel in my sideboard as counters will be the only way to stop my fling IIRC.
Well, they gain absolutely nothing from the vintage market - the value of a black lotus doesn't impact them at all. Printing more in a new set would result in sales, as people would want those iconic cards and it might lead to a surge in vintage tournaments.
All theoretical of course - they won't reprint them, and there's no easy way round the reserved list. It's not just about those specific cards, it also prevents functional reprints.
Imperfected
Member
I mean, if you could actually find wiggle room to squirm around the Reserve List's underlying intent, it'd probably be better to just blanket ban the cards rather than reprinting them in most cases.
I enjoyed it. Played for the first time then signed up for the pre-release on my way out.
I brought my wife and two kids and they had a good time (plus I got 4 full-art foil lands). Then I got surprised that both of my kids wanted to come to the midnight pre-release event with me on Friday night. So, that event was a success, I guess.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
did some testing with a B/W zombies deck, gotta say it's pretty fun. This is what I came up with so far
https://deckstats.net/deck-12910955-263cd889e8dbaabb9951e66020218c3e.html
Binding Mummy is surprisingly rather good in combination with the zombie token spawners. I don't think the double Oketras and Giddeons feel out of place at the moment, Oketra is easy to acticate in this deck. I had Dusk // Dawn in an earlier version for some mean blowouts + recursion but, well, with the lords and mimics and Giddeon emblem you end up killing your own board
any suggestions? More zombies? Scrounger? Fatal Push?
Thoughts about Time to Reflect? It's just W to cast and it exiles anything blocking or blocked by a zombie, so it's a killer combat trick. Even if you don't have any in hand, you can really put the fear of God into opponents by making them think you have it and sending 2/2 tokens against way larger creatures. Maybe sneak in some more damage that way.
Also, what about Plague Belcher? It's another 3 drop competing with Diregraf Colossus and Lord of the Accursed, but it pings for 1 everytime a zombie bites it and a 5 power Menace beater for 3 is nothing to sneeze at.
I mean... the duals, obviously. Workshop, Metalworker, Sliver Queen, City of Traitors. There's plenty of interesting, not super-busted cards that I'm sure they'd love to reprint either in supplemental sets and/or as masterpieces.
Simply Sarah
Member
*tl;dr warning*
So getting around the Reserved List. For this first part I'll use Iconic for any generic term because it was suggested early. Reprinting with an Iconic supertype would not work because that would still be a reprint no different from doing it without Iconic. All that would change would be that all cards that got reprinted would get errata to have the additional Iconic supertype.
Now, the exact wording of the Reprint Policy is such that you could probably get around the current wording by printing entirely new cards identical to older cards except for having a different name and being Iconic. They could certainly print Purple Lotus as an Iconic Artifact that is otherwise identical to Black Lotus. But this still doesn't solve the issue because Black Lotus is still no less rare and you've simply introduced a second, different Black Lotus so either both are legal or one needs to be banned and you're back at the same point.
They could go a step further and print Purple Lotus as an Iconic Artifact with the ability "Icon - Black Lotus" where Icon basically says that the card is treated as identical to the named card for deck building restrictions. This seems like it would meet the letter of the current Reprint Policy.
Of course, even if the above solves the issue of upholding the legal letter of the Reserved List (which it may or may not and it's far from certain it would be needed anyway) it would still hit the spirit of it and it's unclear if they'd want that. It also wouldn't be the same since Purple Lotus and Yet Another Time Vortex aren't quite the same as the originals.
So getting around the Reserved List. For this first part I'll use Iconic for any generic term because it was suggested early. Reprinting with an Iconic supertype would not work because that would still be a reprint no different from doing it without Iconic. All that would change would be that all cards that got reprinted would get errata to have the additional Iconic supertype.
Now, the exact wording of the Reprint Policy is such that you could probably get around the current wording by printing entirely new cards identical to older cards except for having a different name and being Iconic. They could certainly print Purple Lotus as an Iconic Artifact that is otherwise identical to Black Lotus. But this still doesn't solve the issue because Black Lotus is still no less rare and you've simply introduced a second, different Black Lotus so either both are legal or one needs to be banned and you're back at the same point.
They could go a step further and print Purple Lotus as an Iconic Artifact with the ability "Icon - Black Lotus" where Icon basically says that the card is treated as identical to the named card for deck building restrictions. This seems like it would meet the letter of the current Reprint Policy.
Of course, even if the above solves the issue of upholding the legal letter of the Reserved List (which it may or may not and it's far from certain it would be needed anyway) it would still hit the spirit of it and it's unclear if they'd want that. It also wouldn't be the same since Purple Lotus and Yet Another Time Vortex aren't quite the same as the originals.
got a playset of Lilianas for 9.50 funky Euro dollars a piece, figured I can't do much wrong at that price - she's good. And some Oketras because they're cheap and I believe in her
I'd rather like to have some more options for the 2 drops, and the deck is *extremely* vulnerable to any form of sweeper right now. I was thinking of including Selfless Spirit, in the sideboard at least, but that still won't help me get around the -1/-1 spells. Any idea on how to make the deck more resilient to board wipes?
I'll try Time to Reflect, just not really a fan of conditional removals particularly when the opponent is aware of it. I also figured I'll need something for all those Glorybringers that are soon to be terrorizing standard. Plague Belcher could be good, but Colossus and Lord are sort of the centerpieces - I'm going to test it and see if I like it. I most definitely need more removals though
I'd rather like to have some more options for the 2 drops, and the deck is *extremely* vulnerable to any form of sweeper right now. I was thinking of including Selfless Spirit, in the sideboard at least, but that still won't help me get around the -1/-1 spells. Any idea on how to make the deck more resilient to board wipes?
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