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[benicillin]

That's not the point. It's about wanting a 50 state strategy, but not giving a shit about a Dem's race because they apparently don't align 1:1 to what Bernie considers the greatest issue.

I would imagine Bernie Sanders probably wants Ossof to win because he's a Democrat but has no desire to campaign for him because his message doesn't make sense for that race at all. Someone asked him his opinion and he gave it in a poor way that he walked back later. This whole entire thing feels like people putting way more importance on something than the people actually involved do.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

i would like to point out that the specific bill heath mello cosponsored did not in fact force women to get ultrasounds: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/20/1654741/-David-Nir-is-wrong

Well in that case, looks like Mello was pro choice after all! Pack it up folks!

Spoiler

lol if you think this distinction is all that important

 

[Father_Brain]

Bernie didn't give a shit about the Ossoff race because he wasn't a progressive. So much for the that 50-state strategy, no?

Is there any indication that Ossoff wanted or sought Bernie's endorsement? Bernie should have been more diplomatic, no question, but I don't see why he should have inserted himself into that race if he wasn't wanted.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

I would imagine Bernie Sanders probably wants Ossof to win because he's a Democrat but has no desire to campaign for him because his message doesn't make sense for that race at all. Someone asked him his opinion and he gave it in a poor way that he walked back later. This whole entire thing feels like people putting way more importance on something than the people actually involved do.

You don't need campaign in GA, but at least pretend to give a shit, and not throw out stupid remarks because he's not fulfilling some kind of yes, you got it, purity test.

 

[Team Alucard]

Harry Reid was staunchly pro-life and was the #1 congressional democrat for most of the past decade.

 

[Angry Chair]

Has he been going cross country supporting pro-life candidates outside of Mello? And it's a deal because democrats want to fucking win offices...

Touche. You're still wrong on how this story turned into a big deal though. Only purists would care if it wasn't for Bernie being more critical of dems not fiscally progressive enough than those that aren't socially progressive enough.

 

[aeolist]

Well in that case, looks like Mello was pro choice after all! Pack it up folks!

Spoiler

lol if you think this distinction is all that important

i think facts are important and people are saying that he wants to make women get ultrasounds. that's not true.

the post-20 week ban is bad enough without making shit up.

e. 20 weeks not 12

 

[guek]

I would imagine Bernie Sanders probably wants Ossof to win because he's a Democrat but has no desire to campaign for him because his message doesn't make sense for that race at all. Someone asked him his opinion and he gave it in a poor way that he walked back later. This whole entire thing feels like people putting way more importance on something than the people actually involved do.

What's really ironic is that Bernie critics HATE that Bernie's opinions and endorsements seem to matter so much but fail to realize blowing up about something like this only feeds into that narrative. The people that decry him for being propped up as a progressive gatekeeper keep propping him up as a progressive gatekeeper because they enjoy trying to knock him down.

i would like to point out that the specific bill heath mello cosponsored did not in fact force women to get ultrasounds: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/4/20/1654741/-David-Nir-is-wrong

Yeah, I'm still confused on how that bill is anti-abortion. Mello did vote for a bill that required a doctor be present at the time of abortion though, which does limit access considerably.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Is there any indication that Ossoff wanted or sought Bernie's endorsement? Bernie should have been more diplomatic, no question, but I don't see why he should have inserted himself into that race if he wasn't wanted.

The "most popular politician in the country"? I assume he would've at least preferred something other than a shrug, and "not good enough".

 

[Cocaloch]

If you're going to compromise, compromise. If you're going to stand firm, stand firm. But you can't preach hard for standing firm on A and then compromise on B.

I don't understand why you can't have this approach. It seems to rely on the idea that if you are for compromise in any situation then you must be for compromising in every situation. That doesn't seem right to me.

I'm willing to compromise on my lunch, but I'm not willing to compromise on my interpretation of the Armenian genocide.

 

[Prodigal Son]

No Bernie. I'm usually with you but we don't compromise our principles this easily. Especially not on something as fundamental as the right to control your own body.

Is Bernie the most popular politician in the US?

Literally yes.

 

[fantomena]

The "most popular politician in the country"? I assume he would've at least preferred something other than a shrug, and "not good enough".

Is Bernie the most popular politician in the US?

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Is Bernie the most popular politician in the US?

That's what I've been told.

 

[Keri]

I don't understand why you can't have this approach. It seems to rely on the idea that if you are for compromise in any situation then you must be for compromising in every situation. That doesn't seem right to me.

I'm willing to compromise on my lunch, but I'm not willing to compromise on my interpretation of the Armenian genocide.

Well, the thing Bernie is willing to compromise on is women's rights. As a woman voter, it's definitely something I'll remember, if he ever runs for President again.

 

[Cocaloch]

Well, the thing Bernie is willing to compromise on is women's rights. As a woman voter, it's definitely something I'll remember, if he ever runs for President again.

And that's fine, but that's also not a blanket rejection of compromise.

 

[Cipherr]

What does the Democrat 50 state strategy calls for exactly?

It calls for a form of compromise. By literal definition it calls for loosening your grip on issues you care about to get right leaning liberals in seats in deep red areas.

You can't have a viable 50 state strategy without it. The problem is which issues you choose to loosen. There's a lot of different areas, from Healthcare and economics and dozens of others. But somehow... I just fucking knew Women and or Minorities were going to be the ones they went after.

 

[aeolist]

Well, the thing Bernie is willing to compromise on is women's rights. As a woman voter, it's definitely something I'll remember, if he ever runs for President again.

yeah but we knew this already when he endorsed tim kaine for vice president

 

[guek]

It calls for a form of compromise. By literal definition it calls for loosening your grip on issues you care about to get right leaning liberals in seats in deep red areas.

You can't have a viable 50 state strategy without it. The problem is which issues you choose to loosen. There's a lot of different areas, from Healthcare and economics and dozens of others. But somehow... I just fucking knew Women and or Minorities were going to be the ones they went after.

They didn't "go after" women here. Caution and suspicion is warranted but the official stance is tow the party line. Mello is vocally on board with that.

 

[ErasureAcer]

yeah but we knew this already when he endorsed tim kaine for vice president

Ba boom-tsh.

 

[Armaros]

yeah but we knew this already when he endorsed tim kaine for vice president

Any receipts on Kaine endorsing or putting forward anti-choice legislation?

Or is this your classic, fake 'whatabout' deflection with no actual basis in truth?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

yeah but we knew this already when he endorsed tim kaine for vice president

Are you implying that the position Heath Mello has taken is identical to the one Tim Kaine has taken? Because it's not the same at all.

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

I disagree with Bernie here on women's rights. It's disappointing how much right to choose is going backwards the past couple years.

 

[aeolist]

Any receipts on Kaine endorsing or putting forward anti-choice legislation?

Or is this your classic, fake 'whatabout' deflection?

He backs a parental consent law in Virginia which has a judicial bypass. He supports a ban on "partial birth abortions so long as there is an exception for the life and health of the mother". He also favors an "informed consent provision" in Virginia which requires abortion providers to "give women information about a whole series of things, the health consequences, et cetera, and information about adoption."
"Those, I have supported," said Kaine. "But I don't think ultimately we ought to be criminalizing abortion."

he also said he's personally opposed to abortion because of his faith but doesn't want to overturn roe v wade. all this sounds more or less exactly like mello to me.

 

[Armaros]

he also said he's personally opposed to abortion because of his faith but doesn't want to overturn roe v wade. all this sounds more or less exactly like mello to me.

So no, nothing alike, good to know you are up to your usual things again.

 

[old manatee]

yeah but we knew this already when he endorsed tim kaine for vice president

Supporting Tim Kaine was pragmatic, though.

 

[Suikoguy]

So no, nothing alike, good to know you are up to your usual things again.

The real question is, would he spit on him in public?

 

[aeolist]

and let me be clear, i think democrats like tim kaine and heath mello are shit. i think the party has been compromising on this issue for decades. i would personally never want to vote for a political candidate who supports any kind of abortion restrictions at all (though i have, i.e. tim kaine). health care should be a universal right for all citizens paid for by the government, and i would not want that without free and open access to abortions for all.

however i think this particular hand-wringing from centrists is incredibly hypocritical after the kinds of people who have been openly embraced by the party forever. for most people this is about trying to tear down bernie sanders more than anything.

 

[Father_Brain]

The "most popular politician in the country"? I assume he would've at least preferred something other than a shrug, and "not good enough".

You mean, like his subsequent endorsement of Ossoff? Because I think most people are in agreement that his initial response was dumb and needlessly provocative.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

he also said he's personally opposed to abortion because of his faith but doesn't want to overturn roe v wade. all this sounds more or less exactly like mello to me.

Tim Kaine, the guy that has a 100 percent rating of his votes in the Senate from Planned Parenthood?

 

[legacyzero]

yeah but we knew this already when he endorsed tim kaine for vice president

Lol

 

[Father_Brain]

he also said he's personally opposed to abortion because of his faith but doesn't want to overturn roe v wade. all this sounds more or less exactly like mello to me.

Kaine also supports the Hyde Amendment, though I do find Mello's record worse overall.

 

[KingV]

Well in that case, looks like Mello was pro choice after all! Pack it up folks!

Spoiler

lol if you think this distinction is all that important

It's because it's not as simple as you think in red states. A bill was going to get passed in nebraska. Period. and The bill mello supported was a compromised watered down version of what would have gotten passed otherwise. In a way, it s a win. I'm guessing you don't live in Nebraska (I do) and don't understand the dynamics of pro-choice politics in this state (hint, like 70% of the population identifies as pro-life... even if they have personally had abortions).

 

[aeolist]

Tim Kaine, the guy that has a 100 percent rating of his votes in the Senate from Planned Parenthood?

Since joining the Senate in 2012, Kaine has tried to cultivate an image as an abortion-rights champion. He’s pleased reproductive rights’ groups with a perfect voting record. He’s railed against GOP attempts to defund Planned Parenthood. And he’s celebrated in their legal victories, including last week’s Supreme Court ruling tossing out a Texas law that tried limiting a woman’s access to abortion clinics.

But he hasn’t always advanced policies directly in line with those of abortion rights advocacy groups. He pledged in his 2005 gubernatorial campaign to reduce the number of terminated pregnancies in the state by promoting adoption and abstinence-focused education. That cycle, the state NARAL chapter ripped Kaine’s GOP opponent, Jerry Kilgore, as “an extremely anti-choice candidate” but still withheld its endorsement of Kaine because he “embraces many of the restrictions on a woman’s right to choose.”

In a 2007 NARAL scorecard, Kaine was described as a “mixed-choice” governor and his state got an F grade thanks in part to a number of laws and other policies restricting access to abortions. Two years later, Kaine upset both local and national reproductive rights groups by signing a law that authorized the sale of customized “Choose Life” license plates. Kaine argued he was supporting free speech, but his critics complained that the law would fund pro-life organizations and didn’t square with another very important hat that he was wearing at the time: Obama’s personally picked head of the Democratic National Committee.

yeah that guy. they both have fairly mixed records on the issue.

 

[Keri]

yeah but we knew this already when he endorsed tim kaine for vice president

Even if Tim Kaine has an identical position on abortion, there is a huge difference between accepting the candidate for vice president, who accompanies your choice for president, and directly supporting a presidential candidate who has shown a lack of interest in fundamental rights. When I say I will remember this, if Bernie runs for President again, I mean that I will not vote for him in the Primaries.

 

[excelsiorlef]

yeah that guy. they both have fairly mixed records on the issue.

To be fair no one is running out to call Tim Kaine a progressive.

 

[aeolist]

Even if Tim Kaine has an identical position on abortion, there is a huge difference between accepting the candidate for vice president, who accompanies your choice for president, and directly supporting a presidential candidate who has shown a lack of interest in fundamental rights. When I say I will remember this, if Bernie runs for President again, I mean that I will not vote for him in the Primaries.

he campaigned for kaine once the 2016 primaries are over and is campaigning for this guy now that the mayoral primaries are over

i honestly do not see a difference

 

[O Canada Our Home and Native Land]

Even if Tim Kaine has an identical position on abortion, there is a huge difference between accepting the candidate for vice president, who accompanies your choice for president, and directly supporting a presidential candidate who has shown a lack of interest in fundamental rights. When I say I will remember this, if Bernie runs for President again, I mean that I will not vote for him in the Primaries.

If you're going to split hairs here, Bernie himself has a great voting record on women's rights. Not that I think he is going to run again.

 

[legacyzero]

To be fair no one is running out to call Tim Kaine a progressive.

"The most Progressive platform in history!" *

*Both have a history of Moderate behavior

he campaigned for kaine once the 2016 primaries are over and is campaigning for this guy now that the mayoral primaries are over

i honestly do not see a difference

Because there isn't one.

People are being selectively angry over this IMO.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

Tim Kaine is anti-labor and supports right-to-work, legislation that almost fucked my dad over and would have left us in poverty. Would it be reasonable for me to oppose supporting Hillary because she picked him as her running mate?

 

[aeolist]

i also don't recall people losing their shit when harry reid was made senate majority leader, and he does want to overturn roe v wade

 

[Jeffolation]

Well, the thing Bernie is willing to compromise on is women's rights. As a woman voter, it's definitely something I'll remember, if he ever runs for President again.

If an 80 year old man is the best democrats can muster in 2020 the party is so beyond fucked.

 

[YaBish]

You know what, I don't give a crap that Heath Mello doesn't support abortion rights. He's not on a policy level to impact that.

What I do care about is getting Jean Stothert out of the mayorship in my hometown. She's done literally nothing.

Edit: I see FyreWulf is already fighting the good fight. I'm not tied to Mello either, but he's definitely a better choice than Stothert, and I have no reservations about supporting him.

 

[KingV]

Tim Kaine is anti-labor and supports right-to-work, legislation that almost fucked my dad over and would have left us in poverty. Would it be reasonable for me to oppose supporting Hillary because she picked him as her running mate?

There is literally no acceptable reason NOT to support Hillary. Hillary did not fail in 2016, we failed her!

Yasss 👑

 

[Aaron Strife]

Ah okay, Now I understand better. Yeah, that's probably hypocrisy. How's Mellos other views?

He seems to be great on economic issues, I'd have no problem voting for him if I lived in Omaha.

I just don't like the idea of purity tests and that only Bernie gets to pick who's a real progressive and who's not.

 

[excelsiorlef]

"The most Progressive platform in history!" *

*Both have a history of Moderate behavior

Because there isn't one.

People are being selectively angry over this IMO.

It was a progressive platform...

Clinton also has progressive chops...

What's your point?

For the record I wanted Warren if that is of any value to you.

 

[Keri]

he campaigned for kaine once the 2016 primaries are over and is campaigning for this guy now that the mayoral primaries are over

i honestly do not see a difference

I see the point you are making, but why step in and comment at all? How is this mayoral election comparable to a presidential election, in importance, such as to justify the compromise? Maybe I'm missing something. I do generally understand pragmatism, but it seems like tossing women's rights aside, for the smallest possible reason.

 

[aeolist]

He seems to be great on economic issues, I'd have no problem voting for him if I lived in Omaha.

I just don't like the idea of purity tests and that only Bernie gets to pick who's a real progressive and who's not.

most bernie voters went for hillary in the general and nobody thinks that bernie is the arbiter of american progressivism except a few loons on reddit

the people who constantly bitch about purity tests are the ones who want to crucify bernie over a single issue supported by someone he (and the rest of the party) endorsed

 

[guek]

To be fair no one is running out to call Tim Kaine a progressive.

I thought this was about "don't label me a progressive" Orssof not immediately getting Bernie's "Progressive"(TM) stamp of approval.

 

[legacyzero]

It was a progressive platform...

Clinton also has progressive chops...

What's your point?

For the record I wanted Warren if that is of any value to you.

Hillary had to MOVE far enough left to match Bernie. Hillary a Moderate. She had to flip on so many things just to get there.

I'm not convincied. That's my point

Edit, yeah, I would have felt better about Warren. But an easy fix would have been to pick Bernie. Really.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

He seems to be great on economic issues, I'd have no problem voting for him if I lived in Omaha.

I just don't like the idea of purity tests and that only Bernie gets to pick who's a real progressive and who's not.

That's fair and I think Mello sucks even though he'd probably be perfect for me if he was my mayor, I just think the Ossoff comment is overblown, especially since he walked it back and Ossoff has explictly rejected the progressive label.