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[Inuhanyou]

P.S The bit about building Kojima a studio is simply another example to prove the point that he does not care much about games that dont fit his portfolio. Are you telling me X1 fans dont want to play Kojima's next game? Are you telling me X1 owners dont want to play Shenmue? Why in the world are these games exclusive to PS4? Why is he letting Sony get all these exclusives? He was willing to moneyhat Titanfall and TR just to spite PS owners and yet he has no problems simple securing simultaneous release of games like Shenmue, Death Stranding, Nioh, Persona, Nier and Yakuza.

Why are you angry MS can't just get Japanese games onto their platform with a snap of the finger? From what i've seen, by and large that's not where MS's consumer base lies, so it makes sense for them to not focus on that.

Just because you like those kinds of games doesn't mean MS is stupid for not bending over backwards for all Japanese developers, especially when they wrote off Japan a long time ago for the most part.

The fact of the matter is the biggest Japanese devs have already released Xbox One games, these devs you mentioned are smaller devs that have no incentive to ever put their games on Xbox and waste their time. So why should MS care either?


You go on about how MS only cares about money but that's generally how it goes. Wildlands may have a metacritic score of 71, but who cares about that when its outsold pretty much all the smaller games you mentioned combined? That may not be what you like, but that's also smart business despite how you may think

 

[Gurish]

i love these posts and those are just from page 3.

I am glad gaf is catching on to Spencer's bullshit. I thought i was the only who didnt trust this guy always saying the right thing and then turning around and doing the complete opposite. For all his talk of being pro games and gamers and doing right by gamers, he has a pretty pathetic record when it comes to delivering.

I mean the guy cancelled a Fable game, a kamiya game, an Obsidian game, a new IP he announced in 2013 and then turned around and made the devs make yet another soulless gears of war game. the guy spent a $100 million on the rights to gears of war IP alone. Why not take that money and build kojima a $100 million studio. He spent $2.9 billion on fucking minecraft. imagine the kind of talented studios you can build with that much cash. They could be set for decades pumping out new IPs one after another. Horizon cost Sony $48 million. The first three Uncharteds cost Sony $20 million each. that's chump change for a company like MS.

And what does he want to do now? Focus on service based games instead of single player games Sony specializes in. To him, it's all about making the most cash instead of innovating and actually moving the industry forward. Games like Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon, Bloodborne and The Last Guardian wont make Sony billions, maybe a couple of hundred million tops, but they earn them cred with gamers who appreciate an alternative to dozens of soulless multiplayer shooters every year.

This guy is probably the only guy who looked at the Ghost Recon sales and Horizon sales and said you know what, I'd rather have the 73 metacritic game and the extra cash it brings than Horizon, a game that blew away pretty much everyone in the industry and set new standards for graphics, open world combat, writing, female lead and storytelling.

And yet Sony does more than just release these mega franchises. they are constantly patterning with Japanese studios to ship games like Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0 Nier 2, Nioh and Persona 5 this quarter alone. Why in the world are these games allowed to be PS4 exclusives? I understand Gravity rush since it's made by a Sony studio, but the others are third party games Sony didnt even bother to show off in their multiple press conferences last year. they are like free exclusives. Why didnt Phill go after these guys? I mean he gave us the answer a few days ago, but to me these japanese games are proof that this guy just doesn't give a shit about giving gamers what they want. he wants to make money and that's ok, just dont pretend that you are on the side of gamers and are doing your best to give them what they want.

What a phony.

P.S What did Sony do last gen when they were in last place? Losing billions every year, they decided to instead focus on their first and second party partfolio. Uncharted, Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, LBP, Infamous, MAG, fucking PS All Stars, TLOU, Heavy Rain, Beyond all new IPs. In one gen. They went out and bought Evolution Studios, GG, MM and Sucker Punch as soon as they started breaking even around 2009. What does Phill do? Cancel games, shut down studios and talk about how its not profitable to invest in SP games. Fuck off.

That's a pretty solid and accurate post imo, didn't think about it this way.

Though I think you can't blame Phil for the Minecraft deal, when we are talking about billions of dollars deals I'm sure it's coming from above him, you need to realize the gaming devision do need to justify its existence financially and Minecraft is a safe regular income for them.

But other than that you are dead on, I don't really see how much good Phil does for the gamers like he is trying to claim.

P.S Wildlands dropped to 71 since than and yea, it's a shame that he see Zelda and Horizon and than come to the conclusion MS needs its own Wildlands :/

 

[wachie]

i love these posts and those are just from page 3.

I am glad gaf is catching on to Spencer's bullshit. I thought i was the only who didnt trust this guy always saying the right thing and then turning around and doing the complete opposite. For all his talk of being pro games and gamers and doing right by gamers, he has a pretty pathetic record when it comes to delivering.

I mean the guy cancelled a Fable game, a kamiya game, an Obsidian game, a new IP he announced in 2013 and then turned around and made the devs make yet another soulless gears of war game. the guy spent a $100 million on the rights to gears of war IP alone. Why not take that money and build kojima a $100 million studio. He spent $2.9 billion on fucking minecraft. imagine the kind of talented studios you can build with that much cash. They could be set for decades pumping out new IPs one after another. Horizon cost Sony $48 million. The first three Uncharteds cost Sony $20 million each. that's chump change for a company like MS.

And what does he want to do now? Focus on service based games instead of single player games Sony specializes in. To him, it's all about making the most cash instead of innovating and actually moving the industry forward. Games like Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon, Bloodborne and The Last Guardian wont make Sony billions, maybe a couple of hundred million tops, but they earn them cred with gamers who appreciate an alternative to dozens of soulless multiplayer shooters every year.

This guy is probably the only guy who looked at the Ghost Recon sales and Horizon sales and said you know what, I'd rather have the 73 metacritic game and the extra cash it brings than Horizon, a game that blew away pretty much everyone in the industry and set new standards for graphics, open world combat, writing, female lead and storytelling.

And yet Sony does more than just release these mega franchises. they are constantly patterning with Japanese studios to ship games like Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0 Nier 2, Nioh and Persona 5 this quarter alone. Why in the world are these games allowed to be PS4 exclusives? I understand Gravity rush since it's made by a Sony studio, but the others are third party games Sony didnt even bother to show off in their multiple press conferences last year. they are like free exclusives. Why didnt Phill go after these guys? I mean he gave us the answer a few days ago, but to me these japanese games are proof that this guy just doesn't give a shit about giving gamers what they want. he wants to make money and that's ok, just dont pretend that you are on the side of gamers and are doing your best to give them what they want.

What a phony.

P.S What did Sony do last gen when they were in last place? Losing billions every year, they decided to instead focus on their first and second party partfolio. Uncharted, Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, LBP, Infamous, MAG, fucking PS All Stars, TLOU, Heavy Rain, Beyond all new IPs. In one gen. They went out and bought Evolution Studios, GG, MM and Sucker Punch as soon as they started breaking even around 2009. What does Phill do? Cancel games, shut down studios and talk about how its not profitable to invest in SP games. Fuck off.

Nailed it.

You can look up my posts on how I keep calling out Spencer for his BS.

 

[SlimySnake]

Why are you angry MS can't just get Japanese games onto their platform with a snap of the finger? From what i've see, by a large that's not where MS's consumer base lies, so it makes sense for them to not focus on that.

Just because you like those kinds of games doesn't mean MS is stupid for not bending over backwards for all Japanese developers, especially when they wrote off Japan a long time ago for the most part.

The fact of the matter is the biggest Japanese devs have already released Xbox One games, these devs you mentioned are smaller devs that have no incentive to ever put their games on Xbox and waste their time. So why should MS care either?

No, as head of their games division, that's his job. To make sure, his precious gamers he loves to talk about so much are getting all the games available.

It's not like he's funding development of those games through his first party studios. All he has to do is make sure he matches whatever support Sony is offering.

I also dont understand how you can say he wrote off Japan a long time ago without realizing how bad that sounds. I dont even like those japanese games. only Nioh and Kojima's game interest me. I just dont understand why he would let Sony take these exclusives. Like four of them this quarter alone. At least try and get one of these games.

P.S I am not angry. Just disappointed. My gaf account didnt activate until late 2015 so most of my angry sony rants are on different forums. But i liked MS' output early this gen. They had easily the better launch lineup than Sony. Ryse sucked but that's mostly on Crytek. Titanfall was a great game, and Sunset was my GOTY that year when Sony just released a mediocre Infamous game and rushed out DriveClub and called it a day. I looked at Sunset and thought that hey maybe MS will finally start making more than just shooters. But nope, three years and two very mediocre Halo and Gears entries later, its clear Phill was just bullshitting us.

Though I think you can't blame Phil for the Minecraft deal, when we are talking about billions of dollars deals I'm sure it's coming from above him, you need to realize the gaming devision do need to justify its existence financially and Minecraft is a safe regular income for them.

No doubt. thats a massive deal. but he is the head of their gaming division and even if Satya told him to make it happen, the buck stops with him. he chose to deliver on the $2.9 billion deal and chose to let Sony take four really cheap exclusives in Yakuza 0, Nier, Nioh and Persona 5. I would love to find out how much if at all Sony actually funded these games. BB was a Sony funded game with the IP being owned by Sony. That i understand is probably something Phill cant secure, but these games are not expensive games to secure a simultaneous launch for.

 

[barit]

You have some good points SlimySnake but the one with Horizon as the first Sony RPG is unfortunately wrong. I wish Sony would bring out a real 1P RPG this gen (something inspired of the FF franchise for example) but Horizon is just an action open world game with very very light RPG elements. In fact I found it so dissapointing about Horizon that I wish GG will improve this aspect in their sequel big time. All the fucking blue and purple junk you can loot and they are useful for absolutely nothing than buying some armor and weapons for one time. And the skillsystem is pretty barebone too. There is plenty of room for improvements before you can call Horizon a RPG. Heck, even Bloodborne gives you more choices and different playstyles than Horizon could ever dream of.

 

[wapplew]

i love these posts and those are just from page 3.

I am glad gaf is catching on to Spencer's bullshit. I thought i was the only who didnt trust this guy always saying the right thing and then turning around and doing the complete opposite. For all his talk of being pro games and gamers and doing right by gamers, he has a pretty pathetic record when it comes to delivering.

I mean the guy cancelled a Fable game, a kamiya game, an Obsidian game, a new IP he announced in 2013 and then turned around and made the devs make yet another soulless gears of war game. the guy spent a $100 million on the rights to gears of war IP alone. Why not take that money and build kojima a $100 million studio. He spent $2.9 billion on fucking minecraft. imagine the kind of talented studios you can build with that much cash. They could be set for decades pumping out new IPs one after another. Horizon cost Sony $48 million. The first three Uncharteds cost Sony $20 million each. that's chump change for a company like MS.

And what does he want to do now? Focus on service based games instead of single player games Sony specializes in. To him, it's all about making the most cash instead of innovating and actually moving the industry forward. Games like Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon, Bloodborne and The Last Guardian wont make Sony billions, maybe a couple of hundred million tops, but they earn them cred with gamers who appreciate an alternative to dozens of soulless multiplayer shooters every year.

This guy is probably the only guy who looked at the Ghost Recon sales and Horizon sales and said you know what, I'd rather have the 73 metacritic game and the extra cash it brings than Horizon, a game that blew away pretty much everyone in the industry and set new standards for graphics, open world combat, writing, female lead and storytelling.

And yet Sony does more than just release these mega franchises. they are constantly patterning with Japanese studios to ship games like Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0 Nier 2, Nioh and Persona 5 this quarter alone. Why in the world are these games allowed to be PS4 exclusives? I understand Gravity rush since it's made by a Sony studio, but the others are third party games Sony didnt even bother to show off in their multiple press conferences last year. they are like free exclusives. Why didnt Phill go after these guys? I mean he gave us the answer a few days ago, but to me these japanese games are proof that this guy just doesn't give a shit about giving gamers what they want. he wants to make money and that's ok, just dont pretend that you are on the side of gamers and are doing your best to give them what they want.

What a phony.

P.S What did Sony do last gen when they were in last place? Losing billions every year, they decided to instead focus on their first and second party partfolio. Uncharted, Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, LBP, Infamous, MAG, fucking PS All Stars, TLOU, Heavy Rain, Beyond all new IPs. In one gen. They went out and bought Evolution Studios, GG, MM and Sucker Punch as soon as they started breaking even around 2009. What does Phill do? Cancel games, shut down studios and talk about how its not profitable to invest in SP games. Fuck off.

What's wrong with focus on service games? Are you saying people who like Ghost Recon are not gamers?
So Spencer decided he focus on majority part of gamers mean he not delivering on doing right to gamers?
He just doing it in different way.
Instead of pleasing gamer like gaf member, he choose to please gamer of all kind, on macro level.
Instead of making individual games to cater different taste, he create a better environment for all kind of gamer.
Better hardware (soon), better service, game refund, game pass, BC, innovate and support new business model etc, not just multiplayer lover or single player lover, it benefit everyone.

Spencer have been delivering at all front and to you biggest complaint, Microsoft studio have been releasing games at the pace they always been since Xbox one launch, whether or not he's delivery on that front depend on individual taste.

 

[Inuhanyou]

P.S I am not angry. Just disappointed. My gaf account didnt activate until late 2015 so most of my angry sony rants are on different forums. But i liked MS' output early this gen. They had easily the better launch lineup than Sony. Ryse sucked but that's mostly on Crytek. Titanfall was a great game, and Sunset was my GOTY that year when Sony just released a mediocre Infamous game and rushed out DriveClub and called it a day. I looked at Sunset and thought that hey maybe MS will finally start making more than just shooters. But nope, three years and two very mediocre Halo and Gears entries later, its clear Phill was just bullshitting us.

Your not understanding what i'm saying. It doesn't matter what MS does...outside of those devs aiming specifically at the AAA western market like the bigger players, those smaller devs in Japan don't care about Xbox and they don't care about MS, and Xbox's own userbase has proven the inverse as well. Its not a matter of MS throwing money at them to 'fight Sony' or stop Sony from having third party exclusives from Japan, that a very short sighted view of things.

MS has wisely chosen to fight on their own turf where they know they are best, and just because you can't come to terms with that doesn't mean they are in the wrong.

 

[SlimySnake]

Your not understanding what i'm saying. It doesn't matter what MS does...outside of those devs aiming specifically at the AAA western market like the bigger players, those smaller devs in Japan don't care about Xbox and they don't care about MS, and Xbox's own userbase has proven the inverse as well. Its not a matter of MS throwing money at them to 'fight Sony' or stop Sony from having third party exclusives from Japan, that a very short sighted view of things.

MS has wisely chosen to fight on their own turf where they know they are best, and just because you can't come to terms with that doesn't mean they are in the wrong.

It's his job to make those devs care about the Xbox. The X1 might be getting outsold by the PS4 2:1 but that's still 30 million players in just over three years. And dont tell me the Xbox fans dont care about those games. Dark Souls 1 was released on the X1 and sold just as well as it did on the PS3. Same goes for several other japanese games like Resident Evil, DMC and Final Fantasy. It's ridiculous for you to say that the userbase doesnt care about Japanese games when MS themselves went out of their way to secure FFXIII last gen. It seems to me they just care about popular japanese games that sell well and leave all other games to Sony knowing full well there is demand for JRPGs and japanese games on the Xbox consoles.

There is nothing wise about pigeonholing themselves into one genre, but i guess we are talking in circles now so let's agree to disagree.

What's wrong with focus on service games? Are you saying people who like Ghost Recon are not gamers?
So Spencer decided he focus on majority part of gamers mean he not delivering on doing right to gamers?
He just doing it in different way.
Instead of pleasing gamer like gaf member, he choose to please gamer of all kind, on macro level.
Instead of making individual games to cater different taste, he create a better environment for all kind of gamer.
Better hardware, better service, game refund, game pass, BC, innovate and support new business model etc, not just multiplayer lover or single player lover, it benefit everyone.

Some might argue this is more "for the gamer" in the long run.

I am not buying the better hardware bullet point. he might not have been the head of xbox at the time, but he was up there when they delivered an underpowered console for $500. And then three years later he was caught with his pants down when rumors of the Neo showed dev kits going out to devs beating him to the market by a full year. It was hilarious to see him show absolutely nothing other than a vague 6 tflop number at E3 last year because at that point he literally had nothing while Sony had devkits out with patented checkerboarding techniques all mapped out by then.

It's great that he has created a better 'environment' for gamers. though without games, wtf is the point. it's like going to an expensive ballpark on a non-game day. sure some third party teams might come and play in your stadium every now and then but you have no team to call your own.

i have been playing pretty much every third party game released last year on my Pro at 4k hdr. my psn speeds are fine. updates are downloaded before i get home. games get installed in seconds unlike x1. sure the hardware will be outmatched by the x1 next year but which x1 owner can say they have played FFXV, BF1, CoD, Mass effect and Re7 at 4k HDR? they currently do not have it better.

Like I said earlier, focusing on service games is fine. My problem is with his wording. He clearly states that the money is not there for SP games Sony makes. nvm the fact that most sony games all have some form of online component. i refuse to believe that X1 owners dont want an Uncharted or the last of us or The last guardian or Horizon or God of War of their own. they dont just want to play Destiny, BF1, and CoD all year.

 

[sviri]

They could actually coast off what's already been announced, though this might give us an idea of when Knack 2 & Gran Turismo Sport may be releasing.

Oh yeah! I can't wait for that.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It's his job to make those devs care about the Xbox. The X1 might be getting outsold by the PS4 2:1 but that's still 30 million players in just over three years. And dont tell me the Xbox fans dont care about those games. Dark Souls 1 was released on the X1 and sold just as well as it did on the PS3. Same goes for several other japanese games like Resident Evil, DMC and Final Fantasy. It's ridiculous for you to say that the userbase doesnt care about Japanese games when MS themselves went out of their way to secure FFXIII last gen. It seems to me they just care about popular japanese games that sell well and leave all other games to Sony knowing full well there is demand for JRPGs and japanese games on the Xbox consoles.

Exactly, which is what i said. Some Xbox users care about the popular Japanese games like FF, DMC, Resident Evil and now Souls, and so MS does as well. It also so happens that they don't need to do much to entice those third parties onto their platform.

But for developers smaller than that like Platinum who have never made any smash hit franchises sales wise, or Atlus who's biggest game has only cracked a million globally, there's absolutely no incentive because Xbox gamers don't care about those smaller Japanese games and those devs base in japan don't care about Xbox. And, that's perfectly fine for what MS is going for. Their platform doesn't have to be all things to all people.

Sony doesn't try to ape MS just to get their piece of the pie in the multiplayer and service game side of things, why should we unfairly expect MS to do that?

 

[GHG]

What's wrong with focus on service games? Are you saying people who like Ghost Recon are not gamers?
So Spencer decided he focus on majority part of gamers mean he not delivering on doing right to gamers?
He just doing it in different way.
Instead of pleasing gamer like gaf member, he choose to please gamer of all kind, on macro level.
Instead of making individual games to cater different taste, he create a better environment for all kind of gamer.
Better hardware, better service, game refund, game pass, BC, innovate and support new business model etc, not just multiplayer lover or single player lover, it benefit everyone.

Spencer have been delivering at all front and to you biggest complaint, Microsoft studio have been releasing games at the pace they always been since Xbox one launch, whether or not he's delivery on that front depend on individual taste.

I'll be brief here and just say that the only way this industry will continue to grow is through innovation and creativity. In all industries where these two things are prominent there is often a struggle between those who simply want to make money and those who seek to create something new and fresh. A balance needs to be struck and the most successful companies tend to strike that balance, almost perfectly.

In the case of Phil and MS I don't see their current approach as being balanced. Despite what they like to say, they are more focused on making as much money as quickly as possible than anything else. Nothing wrong with that, but just be honest and say that is your priority for goodness sake instead of selling a lie. There is also nothing wrong with saying you want to focus on GaaS per-se but if you're going to go down that road what are you bringing to the table? What are you doing differently? If all they are going to do is pump out safe souless clone after safe souless clone under this model then they can fuck right off.

People want to see something different from them. After well over a decade in this industry, Xbox as a brand is still searching for it's identity and it's clear to see why.

 

[Inuhanyou]

You started very reasonable and then you went off the rails "and then they can fuck right off" according to who? Their base who is over 40 million active users?

It seems your coming from a place of their current business model not being what you personally want, but its not an objective assessment of MS's strategy.

Its like how people lambast Konami hoping their fail cause they left core gaming, they are doing great for themselves! It may not be what you or I want from them, but if they think its good business, that's just how it is

 

[wapplew]

I am not buying the better hardware bullet point.

I should add "soon" in better hardware part.

It's great that he has created a better 'environment' for gamers. though without games, wtf is the point. it's like going to an expensive ballpark on a non-game day. sure some third party teams might come and play in your stadium every now and then but you have no team to call your own.

One of the most beloved gaming ecosystem, Steam, what game valve have release since Dota2? All their games is service game and that didn't stop Steam become favorite platfrom on PC.
As a platform holder, Spencer is delivering everything that worked on Steam to console, features that love by millions of gamers.
As for Microsoft studio publishing effort, I've been critical on them not willing to invest on actually game development for long time but he promise up investment.
More than 1 billion investment into the industry, studio get project, devs get pay, this is good news however you cut it.
Whether or not the outcome satisfy your gaming taste is different story.

 

[SlimySnake]

You started very reasonable and then you went off the rails "and then they can fuck right off" according to who? Their base who is over 40 million active users?

It seems your coming from a place of their current business model not being what you personally want, but its not an objective assessment of MS's strategy.

Its like how people lambast Konami hoping their fail cause they left core gaming, they are doing great for themselves! It may not be what you or I want from them, but if they think its good business, that's just how it is

You are on a board for gamers. Gamers want more games. They want a variety of games.

This isn't a board for walk street investors or shareholders of miCrosoft or Konami. Who here gives a shit about Konami making money now that they aren't making games anymore. Why would i care about their bottom line if that isnt going towards making video games.

 

[Inuhanyou]

You are on a board for gamers. Gamers want more games. They want a variety of games.

This isn't a board for walk street investors or shareholders of miCrosoft or Konami. Who here gives a shit about Konami making money now that they aren't making games anymore. Why would i care about their bottom line if that isnt going towards making video games.

But your missing what i'm saying entirely, i'm saying MS are focusing on gamers. Where you guys are going wrong is trying to attack them for not focusing on what you specifically like as gamers!

GaaS gamers love what MS is doing, MS also get plenty of third party and Japanese games which are not service based. i think you guys are being unreasonably harsh on MS just because they aren't following a particular core gaming oriented business model you happen to enjoy(aka copying Sony)

They don't have an obligation to cater to your specific enthusiast tastes when for the most part they don't need to, and their strategy attracts devs who have their own kinds of games already.

Sony does what they do best, MS does what they do best. That should be all there is to it!

 

[GHG]

You started very reasonable and then you went off the rails "and then they can fuck right off" according to who? Their base who is over 40 million active users?

It seems your coming from a place of their current business model not being what you personally want, but its not an objective assessment of MS's strategy.

Its like how people lambast Konami hoping their fail cause they left core gaming, they are doing great for themselves! It may not be what you or I want from them, but if they think its good business, that's just how it is

So what is it about then? Are we now more concerned about the financial health of these companies rather than the games we get to play? Are you a hobbyist or are you a share holder come financial analyst? Like I said earlier, there is a balance to be struck. You can be both healthy financially and be creative/innovative at the same time. Sony have proved it, Nintendo have proved it and most shocking of all, RROD aside, Microsoft proved it during the first 3/4 years of the Xbox 360.

I personally don't care if there are 40 million* people who are happy with their output at the moment, I don't think it's good enough and very few people will honestly look back on this current period from them and say "those where some of the best times I've ever had gaming, thanks Microsoft". It's the same as how there are millions of people lining up to play yet another angry birds clone or the next Kim K mobile game. I. Don't. Care. Yes they might do well financially but are these games going to be remembered? Not really. Are they pushing the industry forward in a positive way, creating new standards for the medium? Definitely not.

It's not about the way in which these games are given to us, or the devices they are on, it's a question of what are they doing for us as gamers. Are they taking us to new worlds? Are they giving us new gameplay mechanics? Are they giving us new experiences? Does the package feel fresh? When angry birds first came out I didn't have a problem with it, it was actually different and defined a whole era of mobile gaming. The hundreds of clones on the app store that might still do well financially for the creators however? No, I don't care for those.

*P.S. I'm one of those 40 million "active" users. Let me tell you what I use my Xbox one for at the moment; watching TV shows with my wife. Stop throwing that statistic out there as if it actually means something in the context of this discussion.

 

[Bold One]

Too good lol this thread given birth to Bollywood Kaz, special guest in Uncharted Lost Legacy

I feel like I should be getting some credit for Bollywood Kaz

 

[GHG]

But your missing what i'm saying entirely, i'm saying MS are focusing on gamers. Where you guys are going wrong is trying to attack them for not focusing on what you specifically like as gamers!

GaaS gamers love what MS is doing, MS also get plenty of third party and Japanese games which are not service based. i think you guys are being unreasonably harsh on MS just because they aren't following a particular core gaming oriented business model you happen to enjoy(aka copying Sony)

They don't have an obligation to cater to your specific enthusiast tastes when for the most part they don't need to, and their strategy attracts devs who have their own kinds of games already.

Sony does what they do best, MS does what they do best. That should be all there is to it!

What does MS do best though? Before it was online multiplayer, then they tried to make it kinect, then they tried to make it TV (which may have actually worked since that's what my Xbox one is currently used for, so bravo I guess...), and now they are trying to make it GaaS.

That's the point many people have made in this thread, they are always bouncing around from one thing to another in persuit of money. They are the only current gaming company where if you buy their hardware, other than most 3rd party games (and Halo/Forza), you genuinely don't know what you're​ going to get.

If someone asked me what types of experiences I expect to get from the Xbox platform over the next few years I genuinely wouldn't know what to say.

There is a reason Sony and Nintendo manage to consistently sell consoles worldwide and its not because people like the colours on the boxes or the logos. It's because those brands have created an identity for themselves through consistency. People will blindly buy those consoles because they know exactly what they are going to get and they have never been let down in that respect.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I am not buying the better hardware bullet point. he might not have been the head of xbox at the time, but he was up there when they delivered an underpowered console for $500. And then three years later he was caught with his pants down when rumors of the Neo showed dev kits going out to devs beating him to the market by a full year. It was hilarious to see him show absolutely nothing other than a vague 6 tflop number at E3 last year because at that point he literally had nothing while Sony had devkits out with patented checkerboarding techniques all mapped out by then.

It's great that he has created a better 'environment' for gamers. though without games, wtf is the point. it's like going to an expensive ballpark on a non-game day. sure some third party teams might come and play in your stadium every now and then but you have no team to call your own.

i have been playing pretty much every third party game released last year on my Pro at 4k hdr. my psn speeds are fine. updates are downloaded before i get home. games get installed in seconds unlike x1. sure the hardware will be outmatched by the x1 next year but which x1 owner can say they have played FFXV, BF1, CoD, Mass effect and Re7 at 4k HDR? they currently do not have it better.

Like I said earlier, focusing on service games is fine. My problem is with his wording. He clearly states that the money is not there for SP games Sony makes. nvm the fact that most sony games all have some form of online component. i refuse to believe that X1 owners dont want an Uncharted or the last of us or The last guardian or Horizon or God of War of their own. they dont just want to play Destiny, BF1, and CoD all year.

Are you comparing PS4 Pro and Scorpio at E3 last year? One was six months from release and the other was ~18...

 

[SneakersSO]

There is such a thing as GaaS gamers now? That's where we're at?

Look, GaaS games & the audience they build up aren't planned; they can't be forecasted. It's not something a publisher can force, although the signs that a game is going to wind up becoming a GaaS game can certainly be there from a mile away. Not just that, GaaS games are similar in nature to MMOs in that people don't tend to play multiple of them at the same time, thanks in large part to some of the time sinks that are designed into these types of game.

Right now, there is a gold rush on GaaS titles because how much revenue they can generate. Everyone is going to want to get in on the action. This is just going to oversaturate this huge umbrella genre and leave very specific titles ruling the roost of this model, similar in trend to how the market reacted to both Multiplayer FPSs & MMOs over the last 15 years. And unlike the MMO & Multiplayer FPS gold-rushes, service games actually have far fewer limits impeding their ability to be successful, meaning we're going to increasingly see this coming from multiple angles, not just triple-A publishers.

In 2009, when everyone was chasing CoD, we'd have never seen an indie developed & funded multiplayer FPS become one of the biggest success stories of that year even with CoD ruling the roost, but that is where we are in 2017 with Player Unknown's Battlegrounds. Games like that, or Rocket League, didn't start their lives with the intention of becoming this revenue-generating service game - they were just good games that fans wanted more of in order to keep playing. This isn't the sort of thing you can just try & replicate. Ubisoft's The Division proved this: huge initial playerbase & sales, but they all quickly dropped off, and several efforts to bring those users who already bought the game back to play it have all fell short.

All of this is meant to point out one obvious point - any publisher, especially a 1st party, would do well to try & sell a diverse portfolio of titles, or to find a niche of titles that they can sell to the core gaming demographic, and budget them so that they can still do well without having the earnings of a GaaS title. Sony's strategy has yielded them a healthy, diverse software library which has brought an intrinsic value proposition to the table for their platform that the market is responding well to. And by making the budget of their efforts reasonable, they've ensured that they can continue producing titles that aren't overlapping with the efforts of all their 3rd party partners.

MS fans who see the focus & effort & hollow promises of their preferred platform holder and aren't satisfied with their trajectory versus the other two largely successful platform holders in the market should be voicing their discontent with the people running that ship. There's no reason for MS to be in the situation they're in when they have two strong, successful platform-holder business models doing exceedingly well in the marketplace.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

It was hilarious to see him show absolutely nothing other than a vague 6 tflop number at E3 last year because at that point he literally had nothing while Sony had devkits out with patented checkerboarding techniques all mapped out by then.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure checkerboard rendering isn't patented by Sony.

 

[SneakersSO]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure checkerboard rendering isn't patented by Sony.

Nope, its not. But you'd need the sort of semi-SLI setup of the Pro's APU in order to pull it off.

 

[Aceofspades]

i love these posts and those are just from page 3.

I am glad gaf is catching on to Spencer's bullshit. I thought i was the only who didnt trust this guy always saying the right thing and then turning around and doing the complete opposite. For all his talk of being pro games and gamers and doing right by gamers, he has a pretty pathetic record when it comes to delivering.

I mean the guy cancelled a Fable game, a kamiya game, an Obsidian game, a new IP he announced in 2013 and then turned around and made the devs make yet another soulless gears of war game. the guy spent a $100 million on the rights to gears of war IP alone. Why not take that money and build kojima a $100 million studio. He spent $2.9 billion on fucking minecraft. imagine the kind of talented studios you can build with that much cash. They could be set for decades pumping out new IPs one after another. Horizon cost Sony $48 million. The first three Uncharteds cost Sony $20 million each. that's chump change for a company like MS.

And what does he want to do now? Focus on service based games instead of single player games Sony specializes in. To him, it's all about making the most cash instead of innovating and actually moving the industry forward. Games like Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon, Bloodborne and The Last Guardian wont make Sony billions, maybe a couple of hundred million tops, but they earn them cred with gamers who appreciate an alternative to dozens of soulless multiplayer shooters every year.

This guy is probably the only guy who looked at the Ghost Recon sales and Horizon sales and said you know what, I'd rather have the 73 metacritic game and the extra cash it brings than Horizon, a game that blew away pretty much everyone in the industry and set new standards for graphics, open world combat, writing, female lead and storytelling.

And yet Sony does more than just release these mega franchises. they are constantly patterning with Japanese studios to ship games like Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0 Nier 2, Nioh and Persona 5 this quarter alone. Why in the world are these games allowed to be PS4 exclusives? I understand Gravity rush since it's made by a Sony studio, but the others are third party games Sony didnt even bother to show off in their multiple press conferences last year. they are like free exclusives. Why didnt Phill go after these guys? I mean he gave us the answer a few days ago, but to me these japanese games are proof that this guy just doesn't give a shit about giving gamers what they want. he wants to make money and that's ok, just dont pretend that you are on the side of gamers and are doing your best to give them what they want.

What a phony.

P.S What did Sony do last gen when they were in last place? Losing billions every year, they decided to instead focus on their first and second party partfolio. Uncharted, Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, LBP, Infamous, MAG, fucking PS All Stars, TLOU, Heavy Rain, Beyond all new IPs. In one gen. They went out and bought Evolution Studios, GG, MM and Sucker Punch as soon as they started breaking even around 2009. What does Phill do? Cancel games, shut down studios and talk about how its not profitable to invest in SP games. Fuck off.

Couldn't have said it better. Great post.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Let me ask those of you guys criticizing MS over GaaS a question....you do realize that online multiplayer FPS, MMO and all these experiences ARE GaaS right?

How can people say MS are following trends, or one hit wonders, or don't have an identity, when their entire identity HAS been online massive multiplayer western games as a service in the first place? That's mostly all they've been known for, ever since they found their footing with Halo 2 over XBL and continued onto 360 with Gears, more Halo, COD, Forza and plenty of other games.

That's what they've been good at the whole time, just like Sony have been good at core single player oriented experiences. So how can one make the argument MS don't know what they are doing focusing on this?

 

[SneakersSO]

Let me ask those of you guys criticizing MS over GaaS a question....you do realize that online multiplayer FPS, MMO and all these experiences ARE GaaS right?

How can people say MS are following trends, or one hit wonders, or don't have an identity, when their entire identity HAS been online massive multiplayer western games as a service in the first place? That's mostly all they've been known for, ever since they found their footing with Halo 2 over XBL and continued onto 360 with Gears, more Halo, COD, Forza and plenty of other games.

That's what they've been good at the whole time, just like Sony have been good at core single player oriented experiences. So how can one make the argument MS don't know what they are doing focusing on this?

Because it ignores the reality of the market they are competing in, whereas when they struck out as being this pioneer for online play in the console space, is no longer the market they are operating in. It was one thing on the 360, when their system OS had clear advantages in online interactions versus their two biggest competitors, but that isn't the world they're currently operating in; the competition caught up.

Not only that, they are no longer the only ones offering the best online MP games in the console space anymore, nor has it been that since this generation started or even arguably since CoD4 was released; every publisher now offers extensive MP titles of all shapes & sizes in the console space. MS' natural advantage in this department is no longer a standout feature of their platform in anyway.

What is being expressed is an obvious frustration in that, what MS used to have was a balance in efforts in their portfolio, as someone else on this very page mentioned. We went from having titles like Viva Pinata, Fable, Banjo Nuts & Bolts, multiple SP indie efforts on a yearly basis, JP SP games that MS themselves were funding, and several other examples of non-MP focused titles that Xbox publishing actively sought out, to an obvious downscaling of efforts along with a consolidation towards a specific type of umbrella genre, which every 3rd party triple-A and various indie developers of all shapes, sizes, & platforms are all now catering towards as well.

 

[michaelius]

What's wrong with focus on service games? Are you saying people who like Ghost Recon are not gamers?

It's like bringing wood to the forest - half the industry is making GAAS as we speak so it's a waste of unique position first party studios are in where they don't have to pay royalties which could let them greenlight riskier projects.

 

[Septic360]

Lol Sony is coasting now...theyll show some GoW gameplay, more footage for TLOU and FF7 and Shenmue...

Their false sense of security and massive lead has them become complacent...

But from the horizon...the sound of DMX- X Gon give it to gets louder and

 

[polyh3dron]

Sony doesn't need to talk. They are dominating the console landscape right now and have had so many well-received first and third-party exclusives released this year compared to... Halo Wars 2... that it is making Xbox look bad, and Spencer talking about how these very games that have performed very well will not be the types of games they focus on was just pouring gasoline on the fire.

Sony just needs to keep bringing the games, and they need Japanese developers to keep not caring to release Xbox One versions of their games.

 

[nbnt]

I think this silence definitely means they don't have anything to show at E3 and will just rely on Acti and Ubi instead.

 

[Inuhanyou]

What is being expressed is an obvious frustration in that, what MS used to have was a balance in efforts in their portfolio, as someone else on this very page mentioned. We went from having titles like Viva Pinata, Fable, Banjo Nuts & Bolts, multiple SP indie efforts on a yearly basis, JP SP games that MS themselves were funding, and several other examples of non-MP focused titles that Xbox publishing actively sought out, to an obvious downscaling of efforts along with a consolidation towards a specific type of umbrella genre, which every 3rd party triple-A and various indie developers of all shapes, sizes, & platforms are all now catering towards as well.

Oh come on, they barely supported Japanese games for like 2 or 3 years, with many devs having nightmare experiences working with them, to the point where MS themselves just gave up after they secured FF13, which probably was their only real goal in the first place, to grasp these titles away from Sony. To say they were known for funding Japanese games is a sham, and i'd know better than anyone about that.

The only major japanse games they ever really funded were the first blue dragon and lost odyssey. Sure there were a few stragglers they supported from third parties on OG Xbox like Panzer dragoon, Breakdown, Otogi, SMT Xbox and such, but these were when they were starting out, and they brought no success.

Same with Rare...they barely tried. they bought rare for all that money, made a crappy perfect dark sequel, one conker remake, one banjo game that wasn't even really banjo and...that's it

Most assuredly their interests even then lied in their bread and butter services sector

 

[Toki767]

Doesn't Sony actually have a history of having some small event or something of that nature where they show off/announce a bunch of games like a couple weeks before E3?

 

[orochi91]

Kaz is prime GIF material.

They're all so damn hilarious

XD

 

[phantasmic_glaive]

Because it ignores the reality of the market they are competing in, whereas when they struck out as being this pioneer for online play in the console space, is no longer the market they are operating in. It was one thing on the 360, when their system OS had clear advantages in online interactions versus their two biggest competitors, but that isn't the world they're currently operating in; the competition caught up.

Not only that, they are no longer the only ones offering the best online MP games in the console space anymore, nor has it been that since this generation started or even arguably since CoD4 was released; every publisher now offers extensive MP titles of all shapes & sizes in the console space. MS' natural advantage in this department is no longer a standout feature of their platform in anyway.

What is being expressed is an obvious frustration in that, what MS used to have was a balance in efforts in their portfolio, as someone else on this very page mentioned. We went from having titles like Viva Pinata, Fable, Banjo Nuts & Bolts, multiple SP indie efforts on a yearly basis, JP SP games that MS themselves were funding, and several other examples of non-MP focused titles that Xbox publishing actively sought out, to an obvious downscaling of efforts along with a consolidation towards a specific type of umbrella genre, which every 3rd party triple-A and various indie developers of all shapes, sizes, & platforms are all now catering towards as well.

And how they (MS) let that happen is beyond me. They had a whole gen to capitalize in console online infrastructures and let it go to waste. No innovation whatsoever, that I can remember, coming from the robustness of the Xbox 360 days.

PS3 slid by the whole gen with no cross-game chat. 😂

Wtf were they doing!?

OT tho, Sony's quietness is just a big luxury. When you service your fans you can do those things.

You know... my favorite person at Sony is Shawn Layden. I absolutely love his speeches, he takes pride in his build up. His opening speech of e3 2014 and the last psx were my favs.

...don't know why I wanted to share that.

 

[DieH@rd]

With PS4 cruising to 100 million sold and its game library approaching GOAT status, what needs to be said?

 

[StereoVsn]

The problem with focusing on GaaS is that those users only play a few of those games. Is MS going to deliver a more successful game then Destiny 2, Division, COD, Battlefield, Battlefront 2, GTA Online, RDR2 Online (you know that's coming), Sports (Madden/FIFA/NHL/NBA), Ghost Recon, whatever Bioware Destiny competitor is going to be, ESO, etc?

They would have to deliver something absolutely positively insane for people to flock to the platform. Otherwise they will sell a million or two copies to existing 30 mil or under Xbone user base (it's not even close to 40 mil) and call it a day.

I have some doubts on MS delivering a better game then heavy hitters from 3rd parties. That's the point, Xbone and PS4 already have plenty of GaaS games. Having one or two more does jack in differentiating the platform. On the other hand having a multitude of interesting and different IPs on multiple genres in addition to all the above Multiplats (for a lot of which Sony has marketing deals) is something that will attract gamers.

Maybe someone doesn't like P5 for its anime and TB combat but Nioh, Nier and Yakuza could be interesting. On the other hand someone else may like those games like Heavy Rain or Beyond while a 3rd person may like platformers like Ratchet and Crash. Another person may like Open World games and Horizon will be of interest or may like cinematic action games with Uncharted. None of these may sell a platform by itself but the wide variety coupled with the same selection of GaaS games will do that job and this is what has been happening beyond the whole Xbone launch fiasco and $499 Kinect bundles.

 

[Septic360]

This image lmao. That title alone would be called pure flamebait but to think it came out of Sony HQ ...on STAGE....AT E3!

And people give Aaron Greenberg shit about being cocky!

LMFAO!

 

[Toki767]

This image lmao. That title alone would be called pure flamebait but to think it came out of Sony HQ ...on STAGE....AT E3!

And people give Aaron Greenberg shit about being cocky!

LMFAO!

There's a pretty big difference between being cocky because you're selling almost 10x the competition and being cocky because you aren't even first place worldwide.

 

[IrishNinja]

sony could literally go radio silent for the remainder of this gen and their #buildinghtelist effort would stay speaking volumes to me, personally.

 

[Toe-Knee]

PS3 slid by the whole gen with no cross-game chat. 😂

Wtf were they doing!?

I was so annoyed when they added that. If someone isn't playing the same game as me chances are I'm playing something single player and don't want to hear them ramble at me.

Worst addition to gaming ever IMHO. Sure you need to talk while playing mp games but otherwise it just ruins other types of game.

 

[Putty]

Lol Sony is coasting now...theyll show some GoW gameplay, more footage for TLOU and FF7 and Shenmue...

Their false sense of security and massive lead has them become complacent...

But from the horizon...the sound of DMX- X Gon give it to gets louder and

Is this N4G?

 

[immortal-joe]

sony could literally go radio silent for the remainder of this gen and their #buildinghtelist effort would stay speaking volumes to me, personally.

#buildingthelist is, without question, the best customer centric initiative I have ever seen in this industry.

Motherfuckers need to be reminded everyday that we got / are getting Yakuza 4, 5, Zero, Kiwami and 6.

They need to be reminded cause that shit is unbelievable.

 

[Rymuth]

And how they (MS) let that happen is beyond me. .

It isnt anything new, though. Motion controls, VR, indie games, digital game distribution--MS tends to be the last one to the party, long after several other parties have laid their stake and made it difficult for a new competitor to muscle their way through (the fact that MS usually goes about it in a boneheaded way doesnt help either)

Is this N4G?

Funny you should say that, I remember seeing that user name pop a lot in the N4G article comments.

 

[AudioEppa]

For the past month and a half I've already had this thought regarding Sony being intentionally quiet before E3. It makes perfect sense based on how they ended PSX. They know what's going right now.

A lot of people are running around building the narrative for MS's next arrival. It's almost like forgetting Xbox one existed, with this being their do over. Hoping the market will see it as the 360 Part 2.

Sony made big mistakes before PS3 arrived. Even when continuing to take a lot of hits afterwards. But PS4 wasn't a success on its own alone. All eyes were on them after the security breach. But PS3 wasn't quietly taken out back and put down. Sony loaded up on more games and introducing a little service called PS Plus.

What has powered PS4's global success has been the one and only message. Games. All kinds of games experiences for us to remember another 20+ years from now.

A new looking box with different tech inside is always nice. But it doesn't mean anything if the games don't connect with your audience and beyond.

Sony's E3 show I believe is going to highlight once again why their system is the place to play. With games we already can't wait to own. And brand new stuff to have our bank accounts begging for some mercy lol

I'm super excited for next month.

 

[Putty]

It isnt anything new, though. Motion controls, VR, indie games, digital game distribution--MS tends to be the last one to the party, long after several other parties have laid their stake and made it difficult for a new competitor to muscle their way through (the fact that MS usually goes about it in a boneheaded way doesnt help either)


Funny you should say that, I remember seeing that user name pop a lot in the N4G article comments.

Makes perfect sense...This is Gaf however and that sh!t needs to be left at the door...

 

[DieH@rd]

Spidey has be in development for probably 2 years.

Here's one of the only dev talks about this game
https://youtu.be/NI9NZsOWMQM?t=92

 

[Hydrargyrus]

i love these posts and those are just from page 3.

I am glad gaf is catching on to Spencer's bullshit. I thought i was the only who didnt trust this guy always saying the right thing and then turning around and doing the complete opposite. For all his talk of being pro games and gamers and doing right by gamers, he has a pretty pathetic record when it comes to delivering.

I mean the guy cancelled a Fable game, a kamiya game, an Obsidian game, a new IP he announced in 2013 and then turned around and made the devs make yet another soulless gears of war game. the guy spent a $100 million on the rights to gears of war IP alone. Why not take that money and build kojima a $100 million studio. He spent $2.9 billion on fucking minecraft. imagine the kind of talented studios you can build with that much cash. They could be set for decades pumping out new IPs one after another. Horizon cost Sony $48 million. The first three Uncharteds cost Sony $20 million each. that's chump change for a company like MS.

And what does he want to do now? Focus on service based games instead of single player games Sony specializes in. To him, it's all about making the most cash instead of innovating and actually moving the industry forward. Games like Uncharted, TLOU, Horizon, Bloodborne and The Last Guardian wont make Sony billions, maybe a couple of hundred million tops, but they earn them cred with gamers who appreciate an alternative to dozens of soulless multiplayer shooters every year.

This guy is probably the only guy who looked at the Ghost Recon sales and Horizon sales and said you know what, I'd rather have the 73 metacritic game and the extra cash it brings than Horizon, a game that blew away pretty much everyone in the industry and set new standards for graphics, open world combat, writing, female lead and storytelling.

And yet Sony does more than just release these mega franchises. they are constantly patterning with Japanese studios to ship games like Gravity Rush 2, Yakuza 0 Nier 2, Nioh and Persona 5 this quarter alone. Why in the world are these games allowed to be PS4 exclusives? I understand Gravity rush since it's made by a Sony studio, but the others are third party games Sony didnt even bother to show off in their multiple press conferences last year. they are like free exclusives. Why didnt Phill go after these guys? I mean he gave us the answer a few days ago, but to me these japanese games are proof that this guy just doesn't give a shit about giving gamers what they want. he wants to make money and that's ok, just dont pretend that you are on the side of gamers and are doing your best to give them what they want.

What a phony.

P.S What did Sony do last gen when they were in last place? Losing billions every year, they decided to instead focus on their first and second party partfolio. Uncharted, Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, LBP, Infamous, MAG, fucking PS All Stars, TLOU, Heavy Rain, Beyond all new IPs. In one gen. They went out and bought Evolution Studios, GG, MM and Sucker Punch as soon as they started breaking even around 2009. What does Phill do? Cancel games, shut down studios and talk about how its not profitable to invest in SP games. Fuck off.

I couldn't have said better

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Funny you should say that, I remember seeing that user name pop a lot in the N4G article comments.

Pretty sure I've seen the name pop up in the midst of a Eurogamer front page console war shit fest plenty of times as well. It has no place here.

 

[yurinka]

Amazing

 

[DieH@rd]

If things get ramped up, by the time of E3 somebody needs to create Kazification of legendary Indian Superman.

 

[Vroadstar]

Is this N4G?

All I can say is he is definitely a believer....

NICE! Deliver the games and Phil the chosen one will have redeemed Xbox's initial problems.

Can Xbox bring the fight to Sony? LETS SEE!