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Can the Switch buck the trend and be a successful environment for Western 3rd parties

legend166

Member
Historically, Nintendo consoles have not produced a conducive environment for the flourishing of Western developed and published third party games. I know the Wii sold something like 500 million third party games, so I'm not talking as a general "third parties don't sell on Nintendo!" thing. More specifically, AAA games marketed at 18-40 year old males.

There's a lot of reasons for this. Nintendo have generally cultivated a younger audience along with those not so predisposed to the violent asthetic that has dominated western video games for 20+ years. The Wii didn't allow them to use the HD dev pipelines they spent millions investing in. The Wii U was just a disaster all round. After their failures on the Wii U, Ubisoft are basically refusing to publish any more M rated games on Nintendo consoles, and to this point, support from this segment again appears anemic for the Switch.

I get this - the Switch was very much an unknown quantity, with Nintendo coming off its worst performing console in their history. If I was a business manager at a Western publisher, I certainly wouldn't have been jumping up and down to support it.

However, all initial signs point to the Switch being a break out hit. Seemingly bar a natural disaster, it's on track to outs the Wii U LTD in its first year alone. The hybrid concept appears to be a hit. Nintendo finally have put out a system that supports up to date development tools and engines.

So the question is - will any of this result in a successful western third party publishing environment?

The big thing Switch has got going for it, more than probably any Nintendo console in history, is someone could look at a game (assuming feature-parity) and choose the Switch version because the ability to take it on the go is something that the PS4 and Xbox One can't match (no, internet connection + extra device dependent remote play doesn't count, even if in your specific use case it works). In a world where everything else under the sun is mobile, I think this is a huge selling point. Obviously not everyone will care, especially those who place a bigger emphasis on visual fidelity.

And that brings us to the big hurdle - power. The Switch gives up a lot here, but it's yet to really be seen exactly how much (I don't think we've got a single game yet that was actually developed for the Switch in mind, right?) It's got UE4, which is a plus. Can it do a pretty good approximation of your standard PS4/XB1 title at 720p/30fps? Or is the difference just too great to make it worth while?

Anyway, what do others think?
 
With indies? Sure. I think it's a good environment for them.
With AAA I'm not entirely sure. The portability is nice and it'll provide a better selling point than in previous generations, but it's a two way street. If you don't bother building an audience for over a decade I'm not sure you can expect to be welcomed with open arms.
We'll see
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
I think it'll do well with titles that work in the handheld format.

So puzzle games, platformers, other smaller titles.

I honestly don't see big budget games other than Nintendos doing well on it at all. I think its a mix of the userbase, and honestly, the power.

Not that it matters anyways, really don't see COD, Destiny, GTA VI, etc going to it.
 

Richie

Member
I'm hoping Skyrim on Switch is a success (and I truly believe it shall be so) for that may cause the Western giants to consider giving the platform more serious support.
 

DMONKUMA

Junior Member
Drunk Uno?

But seriously I don't think it really needs west AAA. It's just needs strong first-party titles.good support from indies and Japanese third parties. In fact that what Nintendo definitely needs to capture is more support from Japanese that they haven't really collaborated with.
 

Eolz

Member
Well, that will also depends on the western third parties efforts.
Bethesda is showing an unprecedented effort on their side for example, and while EA is bringing only one game (and might be half-assed), it's one that should sell well.
If they succeed, and they then don't do any efforts afterwards, that's also on them.

Nintendo is trying to bring some different audiences, and did a lot of efforts to make it easier for developers this time (be it in terms of hardware or tools). The death of the Vita will also help bringing more japanese third party support.

Nobody forgot what they did on the Wii and WiiU, or their lack on interest on the Nintendo handhelds (all while doing ports on the PSP and Vita, less successful and less powerful platforms than those consoles).

Honestly, I'm not confident in western third parties ever really bringing support in time or with the resources necessary to do well. Sometimes, it's due to multiple complex factors, but sometimes, it's just simply a lack of interest from them (to not go into details).
 
I personally would buy many third party games on the Switch over my PS4 or Xbox One due to portability reasons. That would be the first time for me to prefer third party on Nintendo hardware since the SNES. I know I'm not the only one, but I'm not sure how many others feel the same way.
 

cheesekao

Member
It all depends on several key factors imo:
1. How capable the Switch is in handling AAA downports. This is an unknown at the moment.

2. Is Nintendo willing to push these titles? Historically speaking, Nintendo doesn't heavily market non-exclusive titles like Sony/MS does.

3. Has the buying habits of the fanbase changed? This is the biggest issue right here.
 

Sulik2

Member
No. Its easy to see why too. To have robust third party support you need to be the market leader or be easy to develop for. Nintendo definitely isn't the market leader and they have an incredibly weak console that requires it to be played portably. Both will make porting current gen games down difficult. Nintendo's insistence on using old cheap hardware and weird hardware options is why they can't get third party support on their home consoles.
 

Nairume

Banned
I'm not going to say it's impossible, but it's going to take both Nintendo and said 3rd parties making a genuine effort to work together on making things work, as well as realizing that audiences sometimes take time to build up.
 

JMY86

Member
You may see a few ports here and there but overall I would say you probably won't many AAA third party games on the Switch.

I don't think so. The problem isn't that Nintendo is not the market leader. MS is not the market leader. Valve is not the market leader. Nintendo's problem is their consoles are below the performance window targeted by major publishers.

If Switch was architecturally similar to Xbox One, it would get the majority of 3rd party games, even if it was a distant 3rd in the console race.

Well said.
 
No. Its easy to see why too. To have robust third party support you need to be the market leader or be easy to develop for. Nintendo definitely isn't the market leader and they have an incredibly weak console that requires it to be played portably. Both will make porting current gen games down difficult. Nintendo's insistence on using old cheap hardware and weird hardware options is why they can't get third party support on their home consoles.

I don't think so. The problem isn't that Nintendo is not the market leader. MS is not the market leader. Valve is not the market leader. Nintendo's problem is their consoles are below the performance window targeted by major publishers.

If Switch was architecturally similar to Xbox One, it would get the majority of 3rd party games, even if it was a distant 3rd in the console race.
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
It all depends on several key factors imo:
1. How capable the Switch is in handling AAA downports. This is an unknown at the moment.

So far? Poorly.

Dragon Quest Heroes 2 comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhM2LishpXc

Not only 30fps vs 60 for the others, but also looks quite poor as well.

Reminds me of my current shit computer. Where I have to go into the graphics settings in my games and turn everything to low 1 by 1 till I get decent framerates.
 

legend166

Member
No. Its easy to see why too. To have robust third party support you need to be the market leader or be easy to develop for. Nintendo definitely isn't the market leader and they have an incredibly weak console that requires it to be played portably. Both will make porting current gen games down difficult. Nintendo's insistence on using old cheap hardware and weird hardware options is why they can't get third party support on their home consoles.

I mean, that's not borne out by history though. The PS3 is a great example. And the Xbox 1 right now.

What you need to have is a proven market that will buy your games. Previous Nintendo consoles didn't have this.
 

WillyFive

Member
It's perfect for most indies; but AAA development won't work because the Switch can't run the games they are making. They would need to make a new game just for Switch, and that is not a sound strategy for million dollar productions.

It was different in the Wii era, when the Wii could get multiplats because publishers were also supporting the PSP and PS2 concurrently with PS3 and 360 (such as Sonic Unleashed, Medal of Honor, Star Wars The Force Unleashed, etc.), but all big budget game development in the West has aimed at PC, Xbox One, and PS4; getting the game down to Switch hardware is too much of a jump.
 

thefro

Member
Sports games should do decently with local MP on the go if the ports aren't awful.

I would bet on anything with good local MP at this point, plus the obvious genres Nintendo has been strong in (platformers, family-friendly) and a big adventure/RPG audience after Breath of the Wild.
 

David___

Banned
I can see the Switch being a good home for indies like the Vita was.

For AAA Nintendo needs to take the time to build a community that would actually buy them. For that to happen they would need to help any major pub port their games over and that costs time and money for something that might not even pay off
 

Calm Mind

Member
Not impossible. Just unlikely. Honestly, I don't think the Switch needs them to be successful. Not even in the west.
 

Eolz

Member
So far? Poorly.

Dragon Quest Heroes 2 comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhM2LishpXc

Not only 30fps vs 60 for the others, but also looks quite poor as well.

Reminds me of my current shit computer. Where I have to go into the graphics settings in my games and turn everything to low 1 by 1 till I get decent framerates.

That's like looking at Assassin's Creed 3 to see what the WiiU was capable of.
Both ports were done quickly for launch and with no budget/resources.
 

Plum

Member
I mean, that's not borne out by history though. The PS3 is a great example. And the Xbox 1 right now.

What you need to have is a proven market that will buy your games. Previous Nintendo consoles didn't have this.

This has already been said before but it's definitely telling that much of the Switch's success can be attributed to a big-budget open world action/RPG/adventure/whatever game. Without Zelda the launch wouldn't have been nearly as impactful, and if the trend continues with Splatoon 2 (which I'd consider "core") and Skyrim it could show that the Switch isn't just another casual machine. Hell, 1-2-Switch for all intents and purposes flopped in many parts of the world, the most casual success on the Switch so far is Mario Kart.

EDIT: Though, of course, I don't see this leading to full 3rd party support. It still depends on a lot of things going right in the near future.
 
It will get a few western Third Parties and Japanese Third Parties. Along with Nintendo's First Party, Third Party exclusives, and indies I think it will have plenty of games once tge games that are currently in the pipeline start releasing.
 

Guardians

Banned
If 3rd Partys would help to make the Nintendo Switch a success with awesome games, than they get a system with customers who buy their games ;)

I hope everyone understands what I mean, it's also in 3rd Partys hands if they can make money from customers of the Nintendo Switch ;)

But they need to support the Nintendo Switch as soon as possible, and don't make heartless ports, and release the games with all the love the other console versions get ;)
 
I don't see AAA jumping in. Some of the most anticipated games of the year are too far along for them to just start a Switch port and have it release in time. Its gonna take a year or more for them to actually focus on it if at all. Indies are killing it though keep it up.
 

Nagito

Member
I mean, that's not borne out by history though. The PS3 is a great example. And the Xbox 1 right now.

What you need to have is a proven market that will buy your games. Previous Nintendo consoles didn't have this.
I think people are also forgetting that a lot of big AAA companies are making online focused games like destiny or the division and Nintendo is going to have a online paywall later on this year so companies might be waiting to see how many people sub first.
 

mlclmtckr

Banned
People are saying Switch can't run Western AAA multiplats but a lot of those games have PC versions with settings that go really, really low. It's not a question of being able to literally run the games.
 

Eolz

Member
Ohh yeah? Where did you see that?

Where did I see what? Both ports were made for launch, DQH1+2 looks worse than Hyrule Warriors on several points, and it's known that AC3 was a straight port with no resources.
The fact that KT said that their engine is now ready for multiplat dev with the Switch and that what we've seen from Fire Emblem Warriors, a game likely out this summer and getting a 3DS port at the same time, is already pushing better geometry and details than this is telling.
 

PikkonX

Member
If 3rd Partys would help to make the Nintendo Switch a success with awesome games, than they get a system with customers who buy their games ;)

I hope everyone understands what I mean, it's also in 3rd Partys hands if they can make money from customers of the Nintendo Switch ;)

But they need to support the Nintendo Switch as soon as possible, and don't make heartless ports, and release the games with all the love the other console versions get ;)

Exactly my thoughts.

Third parties can succeed. And the earlier they start announcing/launching titles, the better, as it would allow them to somewhat "cultivate" a better market on Switch for their future games. I think Skyrim will do very well, but a GTAV port would end up with a ridiculous attach rate over time. The market is there, but not for half-assed titles.
 

Guardians

Banned
Exactly my thoughts.

Third parties can succeed. And the earlier they start announcing/launching titles, the better, as it would allow them to somewhat "cultivate" a better market on Switch for their future games. I think Skyrim will do very well, but a GTAV port would end up with a ridiculous attach rate over time. The market is there, but not for half-assed titles.

Agreed ;)
 

Hattori

Banned
maybe mid-tier titles and indies. the west is currently in a graphics arms race and Switch doesn't fit the mold.
 

ldar247

Banned
People are saying Switch can't run Western AAA multiplats but a lot of those games have PC versions with settings that go really, really low. It's not a question of being able to literally run the games.

Isn't the Switch GPU is like 200 gflops or some shit? There aren't any modern AAA games that're playable on a card anywhere near as weak as that.
 

Archtreyz

Member
People are saying Switch can't run Western AAA multiplats but a lot of those games have PC versions with settings that go really, really low. It's not a question of being able to literally run the games.
Even so, I think most people playing it on the low end PCs aren't doing it because they want to. If you can pay the same amount of money for a PS4/X1 and Call of Duty, or a Switch and Call of Duty, wouldn't the higher fidelity versions be more appealing? Portability is a bonus, but not all people game on the go and the market may not be there for it.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
I think Blunty brought up an excellent point about the potential third party ports on the Switch. The portability of Switch games could be a major selling factor & a great reason to get your game on the platform (if possible). If you're already gonna sacrifice performance for a console, why not sacrifice a little more for the Switch?

That said, Nintendo still has the stigma of "third party games don't sell on Nintendo systems" as well as how inherently weak the Switch is compared to the competition to get through. And while getting major engines like UE4 & Unity on the Switch running from the start is great, some publishers have in-house engines that they haven't even bothered to get running on the Switch (as of when this post was written). As such, getting western third parties on the Switch hype train will be a bit tough. However, I see a bright future for Japanese third parties & indies on the Switch (the latter of the two we're already seeing).
 

knitoe

Member
Nope for non exclusives AAA, but plausible for lesser titles.

1) AAA games are mostly graphically powerhouse. A "down port" wouldn't work too well on the Switch.

2) The Switch is a secondary system. Thus, I can't imagine many will buy a "down port" AAA version over their "main" console one.

This will forever be Nintendo until they make a device that has similar power as Sony and Microsoft.
 

Dremorak

Banned
So far? Poorly.

Dragon Quest Heroes 2 comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhM2LishpXc

Not only 30fps vs 60 for the others, but also looks quite poor as well.

Reminds me of my current shit computer. Where I have to go into the graphics settings in my games and turn everything to low 1 by 1 till I get decent framerates.

Not a good comparison considering it runs worse than the ps3 version and also apparantly the pc version runs like shit too.
 

18-Volt

Member
I don't think so. The reason that western third parties are staying away from Nintendo isn't userbase or anything. Many western publishers give their developers freedom. As developers they would want ease of development, therefore choosing better hardware to work on, no matter how commonly used they are or anything. Working on platforms with different tech is incredibly time and resource consuming. I mean, Switch could quadruple the total sales of Xbox one but you'll still see more and more games coming out for the system.

Second, handheld taboo. Still many developers believe handhelds are mostly owned by kids aged between 6-9. Starting with DS that information is no longer true but developers don't usually care. Handheld = toy, that idea will never change.

Third, from time to time many developers might need to contact the hardware producer, and doing this with Nintendo is incredibly hard. Relationships between Nintendo and western companies are very complicated. Nintendo is more nationalistic and conservative compared to other Japanese third parties so reaching out to them is a lot harder than the others. Plus their western subsidiaries are completely useless as they're run by Japanese HQ.

On the other hand, I totally expect some of the big Nintendo loyalists to be back big time, Ubisoft, WB Games but guys like Take Two, EA, Activision, Eidos (Square) will continue to stay away from Nintendo.
 
Its possible, but I don't see them reaching ps4 levels. Its a very uphill battle, mostly because I don't see Nintendo putting the effort in advertising games like call of duty or reaching deals with third party devs for equal content and support. My expectations are that fucking low, buut I hope Nintendo turns things around. They really don't want to lose that momentum this fall with no third party support.

Anyway the online gameplay has to be identical (as well as overall Content). Also, the games need to be advertised just as much as other platforms. No obviously inferior port bullshit. If cod ww2 is coming out on the switch, its already to meh start for no advertising the same time as ps4/xbone. If they don't start advertising at E3 at least, both Nintendo and third party ports are sabotaging their sales.
 

Guardians

Banned
No. Its easy to see why too. To have robust third party support you need to be the market leader or be easy to develop for. Nintendo definitely isn't the market leader and they have an incredibly weak console that requires it to be played portably. Both will make porting current gen games down difficult. Nintendo's insistence on using old cheap hardware and weird hardware options is why they can't get third party support on their home consoles.

I thought the GPU in the Nintendo Switch is more modern than in the other consoles, and it's also the fastest mobile chip on the market right now? Am I wrong? ;)
 

Spman2099

Member
The Switch had a strong launch. Bolster it with a consistent lineup of quality games, and secure partnerships, and I think it can absolutely be a hit with Western 3rd party developers. However, Nintendo is going to have to do some legwork here. After they secure some big 3rd party western releases they need to promote them. Success breeds success.

Nintendo just needs to be the least Nintendo they have ever been and they could make a huge, impressive push.
 
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