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Housemarque (Resogun) added PC due to console sale difficulties, talks future games

Er, what is your takeaway from the interview?
That there are too many bad games flooding the store each Tuesday and that games get ignored easily not only months later but a few weeks later including hm games which are of a higher quality than most indie releases.


Maybe being on steam where some genres take off will also help them. Possibly having cheaper sales and it's a positive overall.
 

Spman2099

Member
Many people seem have a toxic take on indies in the console gaming community. They frequently disregard them out of hand. It is too bad, but it is the reality of the situation.
 

Decado

Member
Going multiplatform will help, but given the genre style they shouldn't expect massive sales on steam. The visibility issue will be even bigger on steam where there are noteworthy releases practically daily.

Twin stick shooters also haven't had any breakout successes, though I'd be shocked if the sales weren't more than with the porting cost. Still, for best results they better release the game day and date with consoles.
 

XaosWolf

Member
If Resogun and Alienation come to Steam I will buy them again immediately.
And yet again if they join the indie party on the Switch.

Was actually talking about this with a friend like 2 days ago because I Alienation ended up being exactly what we were looking for. Only trouble is whilst he can borrow his brother's PS4, he then can't play it online due to the need for PS+.

Looking forward to Nex Machina and Matterfall (hope the latter ends up multiplatform too) and I will easily buy them for their singleplayer but at the same time I really want more online coop stuff in their preferred genres.
 
That sucks but truth is here much more games to play on consoles than before .
So it's best that you go multiplatform .
Also i think people getting tired twin stick shooters \ shmups since they are so many now .
People also wait for sales since they are so many now compare to before.
 
I can only speak for myself, but the jump from $10 to $15, then to $20 (and beyond) for the "premium" indie titles is what pushed me away from them. That and the prices going up in Canada.

I'm far less likely to take a plunge on a game that now costs almost triple what it used to only ~10 years ago, doesn't have a demo, and can't guarantee backwards compatability. It's why I buy all of them on PC now. Not only do I get the best-looking version, but it's cheaper and will work essentially forever.

Another factor I feel he missed out mentioning is the standardization of retail titles being available digitally as well, and often at sale price at or below indie pricing. For some, they think, "Why would I buy this indie game for $25,when I can get this couple-months old 'full' retail release for $30?"

Whether that's a "fair" comparison or not, I feel it's at least part of the issue they're facing.

That there are too many bad games flooding the store each Tuesday and that games get ignored easily not only months later but a few weeks later including hm games which are of a higher quality than most indie releases.


Maybe being on steam where some genres take off will also help them. Possibly having cheaper sales and it's a positive overall.
I agree that the PC crowd can be more amenable to certain genres. If, however, you think that having too much crap in the store is responsible for their poor sales, then a Steam release would, in theory, be a disaster.
 
Many people seem have a toxic take on indies in the console gaming community. They frequently disregard them out of hand. It is too bad, but it is the reality of the situation.
Too many of them are just bad and shouldn't be allowed imo

It's the equivalent of letting any film or garage film on Netflix or something which doesn't happen from what I've seen.
 

patapuf

Member
If they see more potential on Steam i don't think "too many games" is the problem.

Though competition is certainly tougher than it used to be, on all platforms.
 
I think last gen there were more promotions like the xbox summer specials where they really hyped up those releases. Also more digital games had demos that you could try.

This Gen it seems like "oh yeah we have digital indie games too..." Not really a push for them and hardly any demos.

(Also I will totally purchase Resogun if it comes to pc)

I think this is part of the problem. I tend to rest a lot on those kind of promotions to buy indie games because it help me to know they existed in first place.

I was huge on indies last gen but I cant tell what are the top indie games in current gen beside Ori, Resogun (launch title) and Rocket League. Curiously is more easy to know for me what indie games appeals to me in Nintendo's machines. I bought Snake Pass because all the media "first UE4 game on Switch" buzz and I like Shinnen Multimedia games
 
If Housemarque is having some issues with sales on PS4, does this point to major curation problems on the system?

From my experience, they make fantastic games but is Sony letting them get lost in the shuffle despite their big conference pushes?

Not really - the issue isn't curation. I'd say there are two major issues, one of which the head of Housemarque brings up.

Arcade-style shooters are just not as popular now as they were years ago. To an extent, they were a fantastic fad that newly created digital platforms allowed to exist. I agree with him that these types of games haven't found a ton of success this generation, and that is regardless of platform. I'm a huge of fan of Housemarque's output, but its obvious that they are going to need to expand on the types of games they deliver in order to continue finding success.

The issue i'd levy at PSN is that their storefront is not well presented. It worked well in the first year, when releases were infrequent, but now that we have people launching as many things as possible whenever they want, finding new & popular items that you may want can be a bit of a chore. Most recently, I encountered this with Persona 5 - the night of launch, I signed into the PSN store hoping to find it in one of the pre-created tabs; Coming Soon or the Hot New Releases or whatever tab yielded nothing. I had to manually search Persona 5, and that was a big release.

I would say the issue is more presentation, rather than curation, as its not like the big front pages of the store are being drowned out by 'Life of Black Tiger'-tier shit.
 
I hear PS4 players say that they will wait to play an indie once it is on ps plus constantly. Since those are the types of games that most often make it to the service you feel like a sucker if you actually buy them.
 

XaosWolf

Member
I tried Resogun recently.

It's really good, simple to learn but hard to master. Very hard.

Resogun is rock-solid. Its is everything a modern day Defender should be.
And then they added voxels and DLC and they didn't even need to. =D

Nex Machina is being made in collaboration with the guy behind Smash TV so the pedigree is there for that too.

Here's hoping they take a shot at Joust.

I hear PS4 players say that they will wait to play an indie once it is on ps plus constantly. Since those are the types of games that most often make it to the service you feel like a sucker if you actually buy them.

Yeah. Alienation for instance.
Though Helldivers kinda ate its breakfast the year before as a sci-fi DeadNation.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Couldn't the same be said about PC? "Will wait for steam or humble sale" etc

"Will wait for a sale" isn't the same as "will not buy at all because the thing I am already paying for to allow multiplayer will give it to me free" and are not the same thing and don't foster the same mentality.
 

PantsuJo

Member
I think this is part of the problem. I tend to rest a lot on those kind of promotions to buy indie games because it help me to know they existed in first place.

I was huge on indies last gen but I cant tell what are the top indie games in current gen beside Ori, Resogun (launch title) and Rocket League. Curiously is more easy to know for me what indie games appeals to me in Nintendo's machines. I bought Snake Pass because all the media "first UE4 game on Switch" buzz and I like Shinnen Multimedia games
That's because indies are the second "force" on Nintendo platforms.

Aside from Nintendo productions, there are very few third party games avaliable and indies benefit from this situation.

Realistically speaking, Nintendo systems are the only profitable environments for indies, in the current console market.
 
I assumed this was the reason why, but still very interesting to read. Had no idea last generation was the golden age for digital games, and this just illustrates how hard it is for digital games to stand out in the super crowded digital space these days.
 

Corpekata

Banned
The whole Wait for PS+ / Wait for Humble Bundle crowd is a lot smaller than people on sites like this think. It's certainly a part of the more vocal hardcore crowd, but typically that crowd isn't going to get them big hit status anyway.


I'm not sure I see Nex Machina doing that well on either platform really. It looks solid but the arcadey indie at least seems to have fallen a bit out of favor.
 
I'm still surprised Sony hasn't acquired Housemarque, the studio has done great work for them and they only make quality titles. It seems like Sony isn't really interested in acquiring more studios, but if they were Housemarque is an obvious pick.
 
Housemarque is one of the best devs in modern games.

Resogun deserved to be paid for... PS+ freebie status was an insult when stuff like Knack and Killzone Shadowfall weren't fit for sale by comparison.

Then Alienation released, and all people did was complain about no local co-op, 30 fps, and wait for PS+ like always. They could definitely have hit 60 fps for something like that on PC, and PC gamers probably wouldn't be so anti-online co-op.

They're probably getting some real love and gratitude with the beta for Nex Machina on PC, positive Digital Foundry coverage etc. I bet TotalBiscuit will have a great WTF is ready to go. Similarly, I bet it was good for arrowhead to go back to PC with Helldivers too... more permanence, less disregard. $1 summer sale would still better than $0 and everyone making sure to redeem it while it's free.

I say this as a dedicated PS4 owner, with no laptop to play on for a year or so now.
 

Budi

Member
I'm glad seeing them coming back to their roots, they've been dearly missed! Welcome back and hopefully the sales will flourish once again.
 

scitek

Member
They're really good at the shootemup genre, though. I hope they don't shift genres to gain more attention and then pump out a mediocre game because it's not in their wheelhouse.
 

Spman2099

Member
Too many of them are just bad and shouldn't be allowed imo

It's the equivalent of letting any film or garage film on Netflix or something which doesn't happen from what I've seen.

I would say the percentage of quality indie games released on PSN is much higher than the percentage of quality movies released on Netflix...
 
The whole Wait for PS+ / Wait for Humble Bundle crowd is a lot smaller than people on sites like this think. It's certainly a part of the more vocal hardcore crowd, but typically that crowd isn't going to get them big hit status anyway.


I'm not sure I see Nex Machina doing that well on either platform really. It looks solid but the arcadey indie at least seems to have fallen a bit out of favor.
.
 

XaosWolf

Member
Housemarque is one of the best devs in modern games.

Resogun deserved to be paid for... PS+ freebie status was an insult when stuff like Knack and Killzone Shadowfall weren't fit for sale by comparison.

Then Alienation released, and all people did was complain about no local co-op, 30 fps, and wait for PS+ like always. They could definitely have hit 60 fps for something like that on PC, and PC gamers probably wouldn't be so anti-online co-op.

They're probably getting some real love and gratitude with the beta for Nex Machina on PC, positive Digital Foundry coverage etc. I bet TotalBiscuit will have a great WTF is ready to go. Similarly, I bet it was good for arrowhead to go back to PC with Helldivers too... more permanence, less disregard. $1 summer sale would still better than $0 and everyone making sure to redeem it while it's free.

I say this as a dedicated PS4 owner, with no laptop to play on for a year or so now.

So local coop was patched in later, huh.

If people complained then that might be why Nex Machina is releasing with local coop only. And that'd be something PC players will always clamour for. (Including me because pretty much all of my gaming friends are too far away)
 

drotahorror

Member
I'm still surprised Sony hasn't acquired Housemarque, the studio has done great work for them and they only make quality titles. It seems like Sony isn't really interested in acquiring more studios, but if they were Housemarque is an obvious pick.

Well if this article is any indication, I'd say Sony has no interest in the # of sales HM is making. I'd hate for them to acquire HM and then dismantle them like they have some other teams that didn't have good sells.
 

dl77

Member
Crying shame really as Resogun was possibly the best PS4 title for a good few months after launch. As someone who's bought all of their console games since Super Stardust HD (as well as Elfmania and the original Stardust back in the Amiga days!) I find it slightly worrying that a top tier developer of highly acclaimed titles is struggling to make exclusivity work for them.

Is it a case of, as in mobile app stores, there being such a proliferation of rubbish out there (I'm looking at you Life of Black Tiger) that it's hard for people who aren't aware of these titles to separate the wheat from the chaff?

Hell could it be because there's always some sort of sale on there and people are hanging around until it drops in price? Is it because PS+ is essentially an indie service on PS4 so people are assuming that all the big titles will inevitably appear on there? I'm guilty of that. I want to play Abzu but I'm assuming it'll drop to a few quid or will appear on PS+ soon enough.

Not sure what the answer is but I'm not convinced that cost is the issue as £10-15 isn't a huge sum of money to drop on a game. Plus, I'm fairly sure that out of the indie developers out there on console Housemarque get a lot more coverage than most whether it's through websites, magazine articles or trailers/reveals at the big game events.
 
Well if this article is any indication, I'd say Sony has no interest in the # of sales HM is making. I'd hate for them to acquire HM and then dismantle them like they have some other teams that didn't have good sells.
They seem perfectly happy continuing to fund their projects though, like Matterfall. Yes I'd hate to see them be dismantled too, better they go multiplatform than close down.
 
I hear PS4 players say that they will wait to play an indie once it is on ps plus constantly. Since those are the types of games that most often make it to the service you feel like a sucker if you actually buy them.

Could Sony just drop the PS+ free games at this point? Sure, people would be pissed but they will still have to pay up in order to play online, and they are so far ahead of MS and Nintendo in the market would it really matter? Would single-platform people would drop their PS4s as primary consoles, as well as their investment in that ecosystem, to go somewhere else? Doubtful. Sony would not only save money but encourage digital game sales since there would be no chance of a game going free in the future. What percentage off PS+ subscribers are there JUST for the free indie games? 20%? 50%?

I don't think Sony would ever do this because of the PR black-eye, so I guess they are stuck with this problem forever.
 

see5harp

Member
Resogun was the best launch game and it wasn't even close. It being a PS Plus title I thought should have really made the profitable, but no one knows how that stuff actually works.
 
Could Sony just drop the PS+ free games at this point? Sure, people would be pissed but they will still have to pay up in order to play online, and they are so far ahead of MS and Nintendo in the market would it really matter? Would single-platform people would drop their PS4s as primary consoles, as well as their investment in that ecosystem, to go somewhere else? Doubtful. Sony would not only save money but encourage digital game sales since there would be no chance of a game going free in the future. What percentage off PS+ subscribers are there JUST for the free indie games? 20%? 50%?

I don't think Sony would ever do this because of the PR black-eye, so I guess they are stuck with this problem forever.
Eh, PS plus isn't any more of a discouraging factor than 'I'll get it in a Steam sale' and Plus is guaranteed money for the devs. People aren't buying Housemarque's games like they used to because they aren't interested in playing them, not because it might be free on Plus.
 

Mivey

Member
Resogun was the best launch game and it wasn't even close. It being a PS Plus title I thought should have really made the profitable, but no one knows how that stuff actually works.
The dev who says it's not enough, would probably know about it.
 
That there are too many bad games flooding the store each Tuesday and that games get ignored easily not only months later but a few weeks later including hm games which are of a higher quality than most indie releases.


Maybe being on steam where some genres take off will also help them. Possibly having cheaper sales and it's a positive overall.

The real problem with the PS store isn't handfuls of "shitty" indie or even mobile-esque games imo.

It's 4 to 12 pages of avatars, themes, music game DLC songs, 4 packs of games no one wanted months ago being relisted, fifa coins or whatever F2P microtransaction currency bundles, bikini costume alts for whatever fighting or moe games that dump by the dozens (DOA5 at it's height)... along with the 3 to 5 versions of new AAA games that clog up the front page with their varying digital collector day 1 pre order ultimate bundle editions.

It makes things downright illegible.

Hell, I guarantee you the existence of avatars, themes and microtransaction items is why the more mobile-esque titles like Tennis in the Face (actually pretty fun) or those hidden object adventures games (I have family that likes those) always price $5-10 instead of $1-2... is because they'd price themselves into that avatar and theme range, and nobody would ever see them in the deals section. People would hit the page where "sick skull 420 sniper zombie" avatar comes up and then stop browsing.
 

Kouriozan

Member
That's sad but console maker gotta cultivate an audience for indies, you can't sell 2D games to your yearly AAA FPS audience.
 

Unknown?

Member
Doesn't make sense. 8 years ago indie games weren't even a big thing. There weren't any more big hits and a ton flopped still. I just don't see this to be true.

Going to PC is cool but I don't think console gamers treated indies any different back in 2009. I certainly don't remember people raving over Flower and there weren't even half the indies back then.
 

Yoday

Member
I think it has less to do with the audience not being there, and more to do with there being a lot more competition in the indie space. Yeah, they probably had an easier time selling a lot of copies in the PS3 era because there were a lot fewer quality games to choose from. That led to consumers being more focused on individual releases, and more press coverage. Now that there are a handful of games releasing on each marketplace every week it's going to be a lot harder to have a standout success.
 
They will do great on pc

I can see how with huge aaa advertising in general smaller games even though better games will get squeezed

Indies also have lots of competition from themselves

There's just so many games these days

Going multiplatform is reasonable
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
Housemarque, do what you gotta do to keep making more amazing games. There are quite a few of us that will be there day 1 regardless of project as long as that Housemarque quality & excellence is there. Easily some of the best tech wizards in the industry.
 
Just like with AAA I'm very selective about my Indy games now. There's just so many of them, don't have time and there more than a handful unlike last gen when stuff like Pixel Junk Monsters, Stardust, and Journey were shouted from the rooftops on how good they were.

Competition is just tougher now.
 
So local coop was patched in later, huh.

If people complained then that might be why Nex Machina is releasing with local coop only. And that'd be something PC players will always clamour for. (Including me because pretty much all of my gaming friends are too far away)

Yeah, it was but the relevance window had passed by then, and co-op at launch for Nex Machina is definitely in response to that (likely for the better). I'm not saying PC gamers don't appreciate and enjoy local co-op too, or don't take people to task, but I think the idea of games being designed with an online focus is just pretty culturally normalized there.

To this day, I still don't think single screen local co-op is logical for Alienation, but it's ok for some casual couch play. Nex Machina transplants you from arena to arena as you progress, so 2 players in the bounds of a screen makes sense. But Alienation's movement abilities, cat and mouse regen/reload fundamentals vs hordes, and open field of play meant everyone was supposed to be able to emergency dash way out of bounds from each other, with no tether to anyone else and no screen stretching zoom that would affect anyone else's ability to read the action.

It just "looked" like an arcade game and Dead Nation was co-op, so it had the expectation.
 
There's no fanfair anymore, a dozen of them get dumped on the store every week and they eat each others sales with few of varying quality being offered as PS+/gold games.
MS removing XBLA was a dumb branding choice too. Some of my favourite moments from last gen were with Summer of Arcade titles, but that's all gone.
..hoping this "Nindies" thing kinda works out.
 
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