ViolentP
Member
My point is that market demand isn't always due to intelligent consumerism.
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It's hard to believe that we're in 2017 and 60 frames isn't standard on consoles
- Thread starter The Dude
- Start date
My point is that market demand isn't always due to intelligent consumerism.
Maxey
Member
So you're saying people who don't mind 30 fps are less intelligent?
ViolentP
Member
Nothing wrong with not minding it. I don't mind it. But to actively not strive for better performance in lieu of shinier graphics is unintelligent, yes.
The Artisan
Member
still pretty incredible visuals though, at a frame rate like that.
SpiceMelange
Member
Huh? How is it unintelligent? Its fine preferring eye candy over responsiveness. Whatever gives you more enjoyment out of your game (you know, the whole point of a video game).
You're not replying to me, but I don't think people who are okay with 30 are less intelligent.
But people also didn't mind the sound quality of cassette tapes and VHS. What moved the industry forward was the people who make professional music and video deprecating older, lower quality formats and pushing new ones.
I think developers, in general, should push for 60. Not because there is massive demand, but because it moves the overall quality of the medium forward a bit. Console makers should incentivice this positively, by offering preferential store placement for games with a steady 60FPS. Maybe a "best performing" category.
afternoon delight
Member
Who's embarrassed though?
Fredrik
Member
No one?? I remember the discussions clearly, many thought that MGS3 was a downgrade from MGS2.
HueyFreeman
Banned
The mudslinging of the 60 frames cult. What a bullshit response.
LittleBigGamer
Banned
It's hard to believe that we're in 2017 and some people continue to believe that 60 frames is a matter of better-new hardware and not a matter of developers' choices-decisions.
we could have 60fps in all PSOne games in 1994.
80-90% of PS5 and XBOXtwo games will be 30fps again.
we could have 60fps in all PSOne games in 1994.
80-90% of PS5 and XBOXtwo games will be 30fps again.
perfectsil
Member
If you play on a console you accept whatever resolution/frame rate a game runs, because what else are you gonna do about it?
lol this is good as hell 👌
Maxey
Member
What if 60fps comes at the expense of some incredible stand-out innovation that demands a lot from the weak CPU? What if I want a big world that can't be achieved at 60fps? You can't have one thing while having the other that easily.
No doubt, but in the case of MGS V, I feel the open world didn't add much to it. Could've been a tighter game with smaller, better designed and more detailed hub maps and the gameplay wouldn't suffer one bit from it, while still keeping the 60fps target.
Quite.
We've had consoles capable of outputting 60fps since 1997 (and probably1987).
Interesting. How much testing have you done with this?
But the games have high I.Q.
Maxey
Member
I thought 30fps in games actually meant they'd have superior IQ compared to 60fps games.
Fredrik
Member
Big open worlds at 60fps is no issue what so ever with the current consoles. The problem is that the devs want to keep the graphic fidelity and resolution as close to the PC version as possible. As someone said above, all games could've been 60fps on PS1.
Maxey
Member
Given hardware limitations, devs have to deal between keeping high performance or achieving high detail and this is particularly tough on open world games. MGS V achieved 60fps by having maps with average tree/foliage detail and low density of objects on consoles but if a dev wants to increase detail and density to achieve their game design goals, that comes at the cost of framerate. As I said before, being able to target between different framerates gives devs more freedom for their design decisions, something that would become a problem if 60fps became a mandate.
Devs don't do 30fps to spite players or because they're dumb lazy morons who can't code for shit, they do it because given what they have to work with, they need to compromise something to achieve something else. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
on finite fixed hardware you'll always be able to get more out of it by taking twice as long to build a frame. It's just physics.
I mean, technically the only reason 60fps is a thing because TV display timing was done as cheap as possible so they used the 60hz of the power lines in the US. If history had been any different then we'd be on here asking why games are 55 fps instead of 110.
I mean, technically the only reason 60fps is a thing because TV display timing was done as cheap as possible so they used the 60hz of the power lines in the US. If history had been any different then we'd be on here asking why games are 55 fps instead of 110.
60 fps (polygonal graphics) enjoyed it's heyday on the dreamcast/ PS2 because of the limits of 480i CRT. We haven't yet had a console that had SO much power that it could easily run a modern game at the now standard 1080p. The scorpio might just pull it off but.. within a year developers will focus that power on higher details in 4K and they'll keep the framerate consistent across resolutions rather than tweaking it up.
60 FPS looks fantastic when it's locked , really it's a total game changer for just about anything but , when that's prioritized above all else you have to sacrifice quite a bit.
Look at some of the games running 60 fps on console and they run closer to 720p which looks pretty fuzzy these days ... and that's even on a PS4 pro (Ni-oh being the example I'm thinking of). You can also get away with it if you drop the overall detail level... so that means you end up with a game that looks like a really solid Xbox 360/PS3 game which isn't a bad thing really but I guess most people want more these days ? Developers especially.
60 FPS looks fantastic when it's locked , really it's a total game changer for just about anything but , when that's prioritized above all else you have to sacrifice quite a bit.
Look at some of the games running 60 fps on console and they run closer to 720p which looks pretty fuzzy these days ... and that's even on a PS4 pro (Ni-oh being the example I'm thinking of). You can also get away with it if you drop the overall detail level... so that means you end up with a game that looks like a really solid Xbox 360/PS3 game which isn't a bad thing really but I guess most people want more these days ? Developers especially.
boiled goose
good with gravy
.
Come on people. There will always be a tradeoff regarding eye candy/scale and performance.
Plenty of games work at 30fps and would not exist otherwise.
Onlinehero
Member
nextgeneration
Member
Yes, more so this than anything else.
The Dude
Member
Absolutely not true lol
Woo-Fu
Banned
It's hard to believe we're in 2017 and forum posters still haven't realized that 60FPS is a trade-off that not all developers feel is warranted.
Think about it, that horsepower spent getting to and maintaining 60FPS can be spent on a lot of other things, a lot of other things most developers seem to feel is more important for their games.
That tradeoff will exist whether it is 2000, 2017, or 2117.
Think about it, that horsepower spent getting to and maintaining 60FPS can be spent on a lot of other things, a lot of other things most developers seem to feel is more important for their games.
That tradeoff will exist whether it is 2000, 2017, or 2117.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
4k tho!!!
I hate it.
Fbh
Member
As a console gamer in the year 2017, with gaming being one of my main hobbies, as someone who also posts on GAF, follows gaming media and listens to gaming podcasts and stays up late to watch E3 conferences (time difference)....making me a more "enthusiast" consumer than the average person buying games.
I just don't really care.
Like, yeah 60fps is nice and yeah there is clear difference. But 30fps also feels perfectly fine to me and in the vast majority of games I just don't see performance as something that makes or breaks the game (unless it has severe drops below 30fps). I can be playing Nioh or Nier Automata and change over to Horizon and for me it just doesn't feel like this unresponsive sloppy slideshow some people make 30fps out to be. If anything I think that on limited hardware Horizon gains way more from looking absolutely amazing than it would from being 60fps.
When I see a cool game being revealed "will it be 60fps" just isn't something that really crosses my mind and I honestly also don't get the meltdowns we get in some threads when a game is revealed to be 30fps. I understands it's very important to some but to me it isn't and I guess there are plenty of people like me since I've never noticed the framerate reflecting on sales numbers
I just don't really care.
Like, yeah 60fps is nice and yeah there is clear difference. But 30fps also feels perfectly fine to me and in the vast majority of games I just don't see performance as something that makes or breaks the game (unless it has severe drops below 30fps). I can be playing Nioh or Nier Automata and change over to Horizon and for me it just doesn't feel like this unresponsive sloppy slideshow some people make 30fps out to be. If anything I think that on limited hardware Horizon gains way more from looking absolutely amazing than it would from being 60fps.
When I see a cool game being revealed "will it be 60fps" just isn't something that really crosses my mind and I honestly also don't get the meltdowns we get in some threads when a game is revealed to be 30fps. I understands it's very important to some but to me it isn't and I guess there are plenty of people like me since I've never noticed the framerate reflecting on sales numbers
curiouscharles
Member
OMFG THE STUPID CONTINUES.
ok somebody fess up, you're all just comedians right? RIGHT?
[seriously wtf at some of the posts in this thread]
17 Seconds
Banned
lmao, you take this shit waaay too seriously
LightofRohan
Member
I prefer 60fps because if it dips to 50fps it's not that big of a deal, if a game dips to 20fps its real noticeable. But if it manages a rock-hard 30fps and accomodates for that framerate then I don't give a fuck. It's a game and framerate literally has nothing to do with how good a game is (unless it's noticeable), a shit game at 120fps is still a shit game, a fantastic game at 30fps is still a fantastic game.
Tales from my ass, but I'm pretty confident that most players prefer the 30 FPS higher fidelity mode in Nioh. Not all developers find it worthwhile to devote the extra time and resources necessary to implement those options.
OfTheOverflow
Member
Because most people will be more impressed by the eye candy than what some people at a glance won't even recognise as 60fps. It's more of a business choice than an artistic one, really.
Jeronimo Jones
Member
It's more about priorities than what year it is, honestly.
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