How is losing a game library I paid money for a favor?
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iOS 11 is 64-bit only - 32-bit apps no longer work (i.e. some games)
- Thread starter Vashetti
- Start date
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I think it is absolute crap. Apple makes billions of dollars and for them to not support compatibility just shows they care more about their trendy tech than good 32-bit games.
We can all play 64-bit Candy Crush now.
This has to be one of the biggest digital letdowns. How many other services have made a large majority of their games unusable?
This shouldn't be about better performance. If they can make touch screens and micro processors then these billionaire techs can make 32-bit games compatible.
Apple oozes with money. They should at least have a better solution or something. I find it more insulting that all our money went down the drain for an iOS update.
We can all play 64-bit Candy Crush now.
This has to be one of the biggest digital letdowns. How many other services have made a large majority of their games unusable?
This shouldn't be about better performance. If they can make touch screens and micro processors then these billionaire techs can make 32-bit games compatible.
Apple oozes with money. They should at least have a better solution or something. I find it more insulting that all our money went down the drain for an iOS update.
Toadthemushroom
Member
If you've got an old iPhone before the 2013 iPhone 5s (first 64 bit iPhone) and iPad before the 2013 iPad Air, I'd keep them on iOS 10 and have them archive old apps.
Those two devices will be five years old before they stop getting updates - I doubt they'll get iOS 12 in late 2018 - so that makes the most sense.
A touch hyperbolic.
-Every game made within the last four years will be 64 bit, that includes way more than just Candy Crush. There's a lot of great stuff out there which will continue to be forwards compatible.
-Any iOS device with a 32 bit CPU (i.e. iPad 4 or earlier, iPhone 5/5C or earlier) will remain fully compatible with older 32 bit games
-Any iOS device on iOS 10 - will remain compatible with 32 bit apps.
The bigger issue to me is the scrubbing of 32 bit apps in search results on the App Store. I believe those apps should continue to appear live to anyone still on iOS 10 or on a device that still supports them.
Those two devices will be five years old before they stop getting updates - I doubt they'll get iOS 12 in late 2018 - so that makes the most sense.
A touch hyperbolic.
-Every game made within the last four years will be 64 bit, that includes way more than just Candy Crush. There's a lot of great stuff out there which will continue to be forwards compatible.
-Any iOS device with a 32 bit CPU (i.e. iPad 4 or earlier, iPhone 5/5C or earlier) will remain fully compatible with older 32 bit games
-Any iOS device on iOS 10 - will remain compatible with 32 bit apps.
The bigger issue to me is the scrubbing of 32 bit apps in search results on the App Store. I believe those apps should continue to appear live to anyone still on iOS 10 or on a device that still supports them.
To the people blaming the devs: have you ever worked on a large software project?
The devs abided by Apple's rules at the time of release, and then Apple decided to change the rules.
And now the devs are supposed to pay for it? years after they released the app?
Some of those devs don't even exist anymore, and those who do moved on to new projects.
i.e. the people who worked on the original project won't remember the codebase very well, so updating the app will take a lot of resources.
That's why MS don't break compatibility.
Would you still blame the devs if PCs stopped supporting 32 bit apps 3 years from now?
The devs abided by Apple's rules at the time of release, and then Apple decided to change the rules.
And now the devs are supposed to pay for it? years after they released the app?
Some of those devs don't even exist anymore, and those who do moved on to new projects.
i.e. the people who worked on the original project won't remember the codebase very well, so updating the app will take a lot of resources.
That's why MS don't break compatibility.
Would you still blame the devs if PCs stopped supporting 32 bit apps 3 years from now?
Karspankey
Banned
It isn't up to Apple to update your games. They can't do that for people. Like a previous post said, devs have had four years to get with the times.
Ninja Kn1ght
Member
Apple has a responsibility to keep their platform running well, should they be required to support old apps forever? They'd probably do it if it were feasible. Instead developers have had years of warning to update their apps (in most cases all that's required is a rebuild with a modern version of Xcode)
If they can't be bothered to do that much in three years they've obviously stopped caring and there's a pretty decent chance some other change will break it anyway. Looking to the future is better than being shackled to the past, even if I'll miss FFT.
If they can't be bothered to do that much in three years they've obviously stopped caring and there's a pretty decent chance some other change will break it anyway. Looking to the future is better than being shackled to the past, even if I'll miss FFT.
Apple wants to drop the 32-bit instruction set from their chips entirely, including for Macs. I'm pretty sure if Microsoft was manufacturing their own chips for Windows the same thing would occur there. It's not a 1:1 comparison.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Apple isn't the one screwing you.
Expecting any app to work forever without being updated by the dev is quite frankly ridiculous.
It's Apple's walled garden and their storefront, not The Devs. Maybe Apple should refund consumers for their lost 32bit apps then?
That's bullshit, it's up to them to stop removing features, the same way they removed Rosetta on OSX!
There's no way I can understand how you people are defending anti-consumer practices. New 32 bits apps aren't even developed anymore, they just need basic legacy support, that's all.
If you guys are happy to get screwed and lose your digital purchases, good for you. I'll never consider that consumer friendly.
GhostTrick
Banned
If they didn't close down their Phone OS, people could use workarounds. Apple does though. So i'd say putting blame on apple is justifiable.
You want a walled garden, make sure shit works.
Blam
Member
Microsoft has already technically done this with most of their products as they are nearly always installed in 64-bit.
They are completely removing support for it on a hardware level.
Ninja Kn1ght
Member
It's certainly possible but is it the right call for the platform overall? Supporting legacy apps forever limits your options. Sometimes you just have to make a clean break.
Omegasquash
Member
Agreed, and there are more than one on my phone that haven't been updated in awhile. It sucks, because I'm going to lose something, but at the same time, the dev should have updated it. Maybe it will get an update, but I haven't seen any comment on it.
Shrug, and move on. It sucks, but only to the point that I let it get to me.
Blam
Member
Ehh not really tho you can't do the same thing on android either. If an app was made for ARM-x86 you'll won't be able to install it on a ARM system.
The new chips due in the new macs and the next phone alongside iOS 11 don't contain the 32-bit instruction set so it's a matter of hardware incompatibility.
Emulation meanwhile for Macs should be an option but it's highly unlikely for phones due to the performance overhead that would likely require.
On a software level sure, but Microsoft does not control the hardware, any until those manufacturers decide "no more 32bit", MS can continue to support 32bit via emulation to a reasonable performance cost.
Karspankey
Banned
^^^
We have a product for people who aren't able to move on from 32-bit, it's called iOS 10
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Nobody is saying you should be happy to loose old apps, the point is that Apple isn't the one to blame. It is developers responsibility to keep their apps updated and functional. They had years to do it in his case, it's not being sprung on them last minute. It's their fault they didn't.
Apple designs their own chips for maximum efficiency and power, which is why they are usually a year ahead of everyone else's phones that use generic chipsets, and in an upcoming phone they are obviously dropping all 32 bit compatibility at the hardware level to increase power efficiency and density; frees up space on the chip for new forward looking features.
I am going to keep a couple of my older iOS devices around permanently on iOS 10 or earlier. It's a tragedy that the Cave games will stop working. But it's time to move on at the hardware level.
Why?
I don't think you understand what forced obsolescence means. The only thing being made obsolete here is apps that haven't been updated in 4-5 years, from which Apple does not benefit financially.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
You have a walled garden, you remove dead plants. When you let others plant and maintain flowers in your garden, it's not your fault if they die from neglect.
I am an EE engineer. So if you are saying it improves those, you need to explain how.
It makes interoperability/compatibility worse because it is literaly removing compatibility.
As you can see it also requires more dev resources due to required updates. And you could always make 64bit apps if you wanted to. So its only worse.
What does security has to do with 64bit?
Storage - i guess they can save some storage if they don't need the 32bit libraries, but i wouldn't expect it to be much.
Performance - i rarely needed 64bit integers, so where is the gain?
The only gain i see is reducing the size of their next chip - i.e. they can make it cheaper to produce.
Why would i stick with an old os/hw? I have windows 10 with a gtx970 and the latest security updates from MS and i can still play 20 year old games.
Blam
Member
yes but any time you emulate something you're always giving up accuracy and performance in some way.
And emulating 32-bit apps is honestly not worth it. If your app is legacy and it's still in 32-bit you need to drop that shit pronto and get something else made or recompile your product for a better instruction set.
Most definitely not worth it because of how slow it would be.
Toadthemushroom
Member
We have a product for people who aren't able to move on from 32-bit, it's called iOS 10
Or any of those old iOS devices people have lying around. An iPhone 3GS or iPod Touch 3rd gen is the best for legacy 2008-2010-era apps and games.
As I posted earlier, my issue is with the scrubbing of 32 bit apps from search results, which does mean you can't pick up an older device or buy an older device and start filling it with legacy games, at least in an effortless way.
Yo, this. Seriously. How long do devs need to stay on a project? It's an unfair obligation.
Everyone blaming Apple instead of devs. Was it Gamespy's fault that EA and other devs didn't provide a work around for old games when they shut down? No it was the dev's fault. No you shouldn't expect them to update an old ass title either.
If you want to play old games just hold on to an old device. SNES is obsolete, you can't put that cartridge in a switch. You can still use the original hardware, same as here.
If you expect 5 year old software to continue running on newer OS and hardware with no updates I don't know what to tell you.
If you want to play old games just hold on to an old device. SNES is obsolete, you can't put that cartridge in a switch. You can still use the original hardware, same as here.
If you expect 5 year old software to continue running on newer OS and hardware with no updates I don't know what to tell you.
They should stop pestering us with pop up messages if we do not want to upgrade our devices to iOS 11.
I just picked up my first iDevice ever last week (iPhone 7) and from all the apps I've tried so far only one or two warned me about not being compatible in the future.
In my opinion, Apple can't be responsible for devs abandoning their software and they can't be limited by them when coming up with new products, people who want to keep the 32-bit apps can simply stick with iOS 10 as it seems to be perfectly functional.
Hopefully this means we'll get less shovelware to browse through during the initial launch of iOS 11.
EDIT: Before I forget, does the App store warn buyers that certain apps are 32-bit only?
In my opinion, Apple can't be responsible for devs abandoning their software and they can't be limited by them when coming up with new products, people who want to keep the 32-bit apps can simply stick with iOS 10 as it seems to be perfectly functional.
Hopefully this means we'll get less shovelware to browse through during the initial launch of iOS 11.
EDIT: Before I forget, does the App store warn buyers that certain apps are 32-bit only?
Technical details aside, from a resource management perspective reducing the number of architectures to support makes all of those things better because you can bring the full force of your testing and development teams on one architecture instead of two.
Interfectum
Member
Don't some of those games require mods or fan made patches to run properly?
Omnii-chan
Member
Yeah, I tried signing into my old apple ID from 3GS/4 usage days to my sisters old ipad air gen 1 she's getting rid of to see if any of my old games still worked.
Not a single one.
Bioshock, Doom Resurrection, Resident Evil Mercenaries, all gone.
No more Apple products for me if this is what happens.
Not a single one.
Bioshock, Doom Resurrection, Resident Evil Mercenaries, all gone.
No more Apple products for me if this is what happens.
Windows 64-bit doesn't support 16-bit programs natively. Of course it is still different than the iOS case.
LordRaptor
Member
You what? It certainly does
Android doesn't show you apps that are incompatible without telling you that they are incompatible as your screenshot proves
Blam
Member
Only a few of them most of them run properly under DOSBox anyways.
So this about reducing apple's costs (dev time/chip size) at the expense of devs and customers.
stan423321
Member
Please. Memory model isn't anywhere close to only thing Apple can consider an important change. They can change their syscall convention, remove some old library doing deep iOS stuff, or declare support for some new UI mode critical, or do the same with displays in new devices.
"Just so old apps can run" is such a dismissing, direct representation of this sentiment. While we're at it, why won't we brick the older devices with a pseudo-update encouraging people to get new ones with all the better features? There are plenty of logical reasons to not continue supporting them just so old hardware can run.
All of these games were removed for other reasons than "no 32-bit".
Civilization Revolution 1 & 2. Shame. Hope 2K updates them.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
Good bye, Guitar Hero and DDR S/S+.
And they need to do that because?.... It shouldn't be down to the developer to update something if the platform holder changes stuff.
Bioshock was purged years ago iirc.
Do you also not buy any more sony products because none of the $60 full price games you bought on PS3 don't run on PS4?
Karspankey
Banned
...then...who is going to update it? The cloud?
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