Kayo Police
Member
Yes, just copy OW loot box system and ill be willing to put down thousands of $$$.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Battlefront 2 will have micro transactions, but won't be P2W
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Namegoes_Here
Member
This is why I think boosters shouldn't be available until at least a month after release. That way the late arrivals and those who don't have time for the game can at least progress and compete like EA claims they want, while still giving the early adopters the chance to not get creamed by people with looser wallets.
TheSpoiler
Member
Yeah that sounds even worse with the star card system following the mts
Starcards were irrelevant to Fighter Squadron in Battlefront 1, so I am keeping my fingers crossed that they've basically done the same thing here. If I have to grind so that I can have a 20% quicker cooldown on my torpedoes, I think I am out.
ArkkAngel007
Member
The star cards will probably fall under these categories:
- Weapons
- Skins
- Hero (to use outside of designated maps and/or factions)
- Ability upgrades (Classes, heroes, vehicles; set to common, uncommon, rare, and epic)
- Possibly special classes or additional ones to the default options
Now, in the first EA Battlefront the single uprade tier for abilities were primarily, if not exclusively, tied to cooldowns. While it helps, it didn't affect the balance really compared to the abilities themselves.
Hopefully those upgrades keep to that.
As it is, these cards are RNG based in crates (so loot boxes). So there's no guarantee someone will be better off paying than someone playing on a per crate basis.
NullPointer
Member
Companies always say their paid DLC isn't pay to win, and yet almost all of it includes better stats, or allows paying customers more options. And unless they're only selling visual customizations, they're wrong.
Are they selling any competitive advantages over non-paying players? That's the question.
Are they selling any competitive advantages over non-paying players? That's the question.
BassForever
Member
As with all these I need to see how it affects the balance of people who pay vs 100% free players. I still hate fee to pay elements in $60 games.
joe_zazen
Member
On an individual basis, sure. But as a group, payers>grinders, rich>poor, just like life.
The Faceless Master
Member
so you mean that just like with paid map packs, this will segregate players into those willing to spend more money and those not willing?
only now, you'll actually get to play against the filthy poors and steamroll them!
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Basically grind for years or pay to win. Where did I see this before.
Game looks amazing but I'll pass.
Game looks amazing but I'll pass.
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I hope it's not an insufferable treadmill masquerading as a normal unlock and progression component in a full priced game.
IsntChrisL
Member
I knew they'd fuck something up. It's better than the season pass model but I hate when games slow down progression to encourage players to buy points. I think Titanfall 2 has a good compromise.
ArkkAngel007
Member
AFAIK it's just buying the same crates that you spend in-game credits on.
We'll have to see:
- Fund cost of the crates
- In-game credit earn rates (hopefully better than the first]
- Drop rates in the crates
- Exchange rates for duplicates, and if there are factors that stack duplicate drops against new ones outside of rarity. That's even if there's an exchange system in place
- Balance of upgrades and drops vs default options
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Free maps, weapons, characters, etc is the only time I'm okay with microtransactions in retail games.
Maybe COD will get it right next year...
Maybe COD will get it right next year...
If they weren't intending to sell competitive advantages, they'd be shouting from the rooftops that all microtransaction stuff is cosmetic. Unless they start doing that, the game is all but guaranteed to be pay-to-win.
joe_zazen
Member
No, just talking statistics and probabilities. There might be unlucky individuals that won't 'win' good stuff; but taken as a whole, buyers will have better stuff than grinders.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
The original Battlefront 2 had paid DLC. And it was just the cut maps from Battlefront 1 along with Kit Fisto and Asajj Ventress.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Doesn't sound any different from DICE games since BF3, so unless there is a broken AF weapon that takes forever to unlock for free, i don't have a problem with it.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Microtransactions is how it has to be if you're not going to charge for DLC. You can't just give things away for free.
But get the right fuck outta town with this "your choice/timesaving option" bullshit. You're not doing us a favor by letting us pay you to make the progression you intentionally designed to be the way it is, less arduous and time consuming.
So shut up with that condescending, insulting garbage and instead talk about the user benefits of this business model, that actually do exist.
(edit He does this in the sourced interview, IGN's editor decided it wasn't important. Still, EA PR should shut up with that.)
I at least hope the progression won't be a bunch of ass like how Battlefield used to be. Or worse.
Ideally it's cosmetic items only (it won't be.)
Gravemind IV
Member
As long as it's not blatant P2W, I am more than fine with it.
Having segregated and subsequently dying playlists like in BF1 will always be way way worse.
Having segregated and subsequently dying playlists like in BF1 will always be way way worse.
Psychoward
Banned
In those games they don't lock the weapons and abilities behind rng, that's the key difference
Also star card upgrades are objectively better variants of the default ones so
That's the definition of P2W. You flat-out admit you can spend money now to gain progression that takes weeks of playtime. Like, it seems people have trouble understanding this very simple thing. The fact you can gain anything by playing bears NOTHING regarding the system being P2W or not. And if it's 'important' to note this then you are basically saying the items you unlock will have gameplay impact. And if you can pay X money gain the equivalent X gameplay time (and the itmes it unlocks) then that's P2W. There's no other term for that.
Plumpbiscuit
Member
It was Xbox Marketplace DLC added in after the game's release, but yeah I prefer downloading extra content like that at a price than having endless microtransactions.
eh. for battlefront i used a lot of the default or easily unlocked gear most of the time and had no problem being competitive.
Psychoward
Banned
Bacta bomb was a dlc card and was broken for a while and is still borderline broken today
comshoplesce
Member
instant no buy for me 
TheSpoiler
Member
That deluxe weapon was fucking broken for a long time as well. And like I said, having jet packs allowed people to just get up in better areas or escape which made lower level players who hadn't reached that area at a disadvantage. Allowing people to pay makes it worse depending on how they balance the game.
Some of you guys always have a weird sense of equivalency when it comes to this game. The excuses their using for this game as being not p2w is rather laughable, yes, but I don't think it's gonna game-breaking nor will it overshadow all the good they've talked about with their content so far.
Also, many of us still playing the first game in the community thread manage to still make gangbusters on the match scoreboards with nothing but the vanilla weapons and abilities which upgraded naturally.
(Fuck the early version of the DL44 though)
Also, many of us still playing the first game in the community thread manage to still make gangbusters on the match scoreboards with nothing but the vanilla weapons and abilities which upgraded naturally.
(Fuck the early version of the DL44 though)
ComputerBlue
Member
If the content is substantial. Take Uncharted 3 vs 4 for example.
3 had map packs which went free for everyone after a couple of years. In total it has something like 35 maps.
4 has no map packs, in exchange it has microtransactions and locked weapons behind loot crates, and it might have 15 maps in total when all is said and done.
I do appreciate when games don't have a season pass, but if the trade off is lots of items locked behind randomized loot boxes and weak post launch support, then I dunno. They're both equally crap.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Someone show me an interview where a developer claims their game WILL be pay to win
Novel Mike
Member
The web site already contradicts them about it being P2W.
Seriously fuck off EA, not ever going to buy this game with shit like that in it.
Seriously fuck off EA, not ever going to buy this game with shit like that in it.
show us where it says it's P2W
ebullientprism
Member
Would have preferred cosmetics instead of actual in game weapons and items. Not as bad as map packs/premium but this is still pretty bad.
Because you just know they will make this shit grind heavy.
Because you just know they will make this shit grind heavy.
ArkkAngel007
Member
Here
Loot crates where you get star cards. Which so far include ability upgrades for heroes, vehicles, and heroes. They are also likely including weapons, unlocking heroes for cross faction play, and skins.
Right now I say people are exaggerating since it is RNG still and we don't know the earn and exchange rates, but the risk is there.
Being able to pay increases the rate you get drops compared to whatever grind, so it's an avenue of potentially better chance of higher drop acquisition through frequency. And faster cooldowns is an advantage, even if weapons and the abilities themselves are balanced by default.
Thus P2W
It details what star cards/crates are but doesn't say specifically what the microtransactions will be able to buy.
If you're able to purchase crates with access to all star cards, then it's P2W.
If it's limited to cosmetics or gestures or whatnot, then it's not P2W.
I want to see specifically where it says "these are the packs you will be able to buy, and these are what's in those packs"
I'm looking for actual confirmation not just assumptions.
The worst part of all these games these days is that from day one you feel outgunned as other folk have had the game a few hours and grinded away incessantly, so you feel like you're trudging around with a basic loadout while getting Homing Shot every 5 seconds, making that initial grind and unlocking phase feel even more hopeless and frustrating.
Why can't they just make a game with a good balanced set of weapons from the off and just get a good gameplay loop sorted. No one getting benefits, no grinding needed just to feel like you can be competitive.
Why I love Rocket League so much. I'd pay for cool cosmetic upgrades, especially customisable things (and NOT loot crates with random items you have no say over i.e. gambling, one thing Rocket League does badly I must say).
Just give us simplicity.
Why can't they just make a game with a good balanced set of weapons from the off and just get a good gameplay loop sorted. No one getting benefits, no grinding needed just to feel like you can be competitive.
Why I love Rocket League so much. I'd pay for cool cosmetic upgrades, especially customisable things (and NOT loot crates with random items you have no say over i.e. gambling, one thing Rocket League does badly I must say).
Just give us simplicity.
Fbh
Member
I guess it was obvious with the free maps .
It will probably come down to how balanced the weapons are and how much grinding is involved to unlock things for free.
If there is a steady flow to the free unlocks then I don't really mind that much. But if unlocking stuff is made into a grind (like in, say, F2P games like LOL) to push people into paying then I will be waiting for a steep discount before I buy (if ever)
It will probably come down to how balanced the weapons are and how much grinding is involved to unlock things for free.
If there is a steady flow to the free unlocks then I don't really mind that much. But if unlocking stuff is made into a grind (like in, say, F2P games like LOL) to push people into paying then I will be waiting for a steep discount before I buy (if ever)
ArkkAngel007
Member
It's not detailed that specifically anywhere to my knowledge.
However, what game out there has a loot crate system that has all these unlocks, yet only has a paid option restricted to cosmetics? Usually in cases where cosmetics are in paid loot crates, gameplay affecting aspects are earned in a completely different manner such as a XP upgrade or individual drop system (like Destiny).
Right now, the logical conclusion with information given is that all loot crates will have a pay option, just like every game I've come me across.
Sora the Cat
Member
Why are people still defending this? We have a lot of examples of games giving free stuff, maps and updates withouth having to sell anything else than cosmetic skins. This is EA, they should be able to apply this model and make it work. I really hope it's just cosmetic stuff, cause if not I'm out.
LurkingFear
Member
But... but... its in Pre-Alpha with decisions being made all of the time. Also, there is barely any official information how this will all work exactly.
Someone get this man a deathstick to relax.
deadscreensky
Member
Sounds like the definition of pay-2-win, just like in Battlefront 1. (Where you don't even get access to traits -- which include powerful abilities like literally taking less damage from enemies -- until you get to level 15, though you can pay to immediately unlock them!) I suppose at least there's apparently no overpowered season pass weapons you need to spend money to access this time, that's progress?
Every time I hear, "don't worry you can earn it in game" as an excuse it makes me shake my head, yeah; you can earn it in game. Now how long is it going to take you.
Money and time should never have effected competitive multiplayer games, however the greed is too strong. Making enough cash on selling your game just doesn't cut it any more, need to milk everything.
Money and time should never have effected competitive multiplayer games, however the greed is too strong. Making enough cash on selling your game just doesn't cut it any more, need to milk everything.
TacticalHotdog
Member
This doesn't sound like anything new. They've been selling "shortcut packs" for the Battlefield series since Bad Company 2.
http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Shortcut
http://battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Shortcut