Hate is not a belief
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"The Last Night" (Milkshake Duck incarnate) E3 Trailer [XBO/Win10/Steam 2018]
- Thread starter NeoRaider
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Hate is not a belief
Charles Brandon
Member
PSY・S;240265121 said:
I see why you say that and I agree that indication seems to be that it does but I'm still going to wait to find out for sure. Doesn't look good at this stage though.
Who told you #AllOpinionsMatter?
kitsunelaine
Banned
Put yourself in the shoes of the people these messages target. It's more than leaning left. You can lean left and still be a total douchenozzle. It's about basic human empathy and what power dynamics you want to support in relation to how where your money goes affects other people. It's honestly not as hard to understand as you make it out to be.
Muffin1611
Banned
I mean, if he's too obvious with the anti-women propaganda the game could get sued where I live. Or not allowed to sell, not completely sure how it works.
It's highly unlikely, but that the possibility even exists is baffling.
You mean what he said in 2014, 2015, 2016 and April 2017, right?
Stead Fast
Banned
Well, this thread has doubly depressed me now, first because it was a harsh reminder that GG is still lurking behind a lot of projects, and will still garner support for these projects because 'game looks good breh!', and then moreso since those propping these games up refuse to a) do some homework on their staff before heading a PR campaign, and b) discounting everything offensive that person has said and done as a naive caricature that doesn't represent the person himself. Oh, and since Lineham seems to be quite the hypocrite on social media when he feels attacked, I'll add that to the glum facts I've learnt from this thread.
This should be in the OP as an update along with Raw Fury's statement:
Idle Thumbs: https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/9728-cyberpunk-cop-killah-aka-the-last-night/#comment-324625
Yeah, we'll see in the final game how the themes play out. The game is still on my radar. The only games I couldn't touch were Hatred and I wasn't wrong on missing out on that. We'll see if this improves or not.
"Trust us, he's totally a cool dude and he totally ASSURED us there's nothing like his abhorrent views in the game."
Yeah, ok. I'll be waiting on the reviews to address the story.
Subway Diet
Member
Point 3 reads like "Exact same story, only we've hidden the gross shit better. Don't worry, though. Game'll be tooting like a dog whistle symphony!"The dude tweeted that he changed since the gamergate tweets
https://twitter.com/timsoret/status/874112392967274496
I will give him the benefit of the doubt .... but I will need more than 3 tweets to be sure that he REALLY changed
MarkMclovin
Member
Game looks visually stunning.
Will get Day 1 on Steam if it's not coming out on PS4.
Will get Day 1 on Steam if it's not coming out on PS4.
Unfriendly TimeTraveler
Member
Shame the guy isn't a good person. Hopefully his and the publishers statements on him are true (it's wishful thinking mostly). The probabl em is that if he is still the way he is then when creating anything your views will impact what you create most of the time.
Just want to see how the game turns out but this has put a lid on my hype for this game because it does look interesting and looks blade runner/cyberpunk as hell.
Just want to see how the game turns out but this has put a lid on my hype for this game because it does look interesting and looks blade runner/cyberpunk as hell.
Commiting to double dipping seems premature. What if the game ends up sucking?
Charles Brandon
Member
PSY・S;240266469 said:
LOL yes, it does not good.
Lady Siara
Member
Not a fan of this way of thinking. Obviously this sort of thing is handled differently by different people but to sort them all into a "if they ___, then they think ___." is disingenuous. I know I don't fall into that camp and I'm sure there are many others who don't either.
I'm disappointed in the dev's comments and the concept for the game is making me wary but I still want to give it a chance. It'd be a shame to dismiss it not for its merits but for its creator's world view.
thehellofitall
Member
Well, shit in my porridge. That's disappointing.
This is an amazing post, holy fuck :lol
The creator's world view is the plot of the game.
7DollarHagane
Banned
It's not a bad thing to play the game and find out for yourself what kind of message it has or doesn't have.
At that point I think we can make these conclusions.
qa_engineer
Member
Had to google milkshake duck. I thought I was pretty knowledgeable when it came to interweb jargon. Nope.
ShironRedshift
Member
Indeed. I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Both time and money are limited. There aren't enough dollars in my bank account, or hours in the day, to play all the games I want to play, watch all the TV series I want to watch, read all the books I want to read, or take part in all the activities I want to take part in. That being the case, since I have such an abundance of choice, the least I can do, when I find out a game is created by sexists/racists/bigots, and it no way hurts me to avoid it, to not go through with actually buying it so as to not only show that I don't personally stand for that, but also to avoid putting money into the wallets of sexists like that and letting their influence and voices grow any larger than they absolutely need to in the process. Regardless of how amazing the game looks, how cool the action or set-pieces or premise or what-have-you appears to be, this remains true.
Point being, this is a case where I know the game is apparently created by a... not-so-nice individual, to put it mildly. It in no way actually pains me to avoid it, no matter how good the game looks. Even without the game in my life, I still don't have enough hours in the day to play everything I want to play and a backlog a mile long. That being the case, why wouldn't I take the simple step of avoiding buying stuff like this, if for no other reason than to say that I don't stand for stuff like that and refuse to support games that I know were created by individuals who hold such views? Yeah, before anyone says it, of course in doing so it's not like I'll stop sexism or anything. I know that. But that need not be the case and that's no reason not to do what little each of us can do to make a difference, and when we are able to avoid buying stuff like this, choose to do so in order to avoid making the problem even worse at the very least, and letting such voices grow any louder any more influential than they absolutely have to be?
No matter how good this game looks, there are still way too many games (not to mention movies, TV shows, books, podcasts, music, etc) released everyday and not enough hours in our day or dollars in our bank accounts to possibly even begin to consume them all. That being the case, we all have to use something or another to decide which of those things we actually buy and which of them we use our time to actually play. So why not use something like this to influence that decision? Whether I buy it and play it or not, that deluge of choice remains. No skin off my back, no matter how amazing it looks, since there's a fuckton of other amazing stuff that I'll never get to no matter how hard I try.
So why not pass on something like this, if only to show my support to those hurt by the creator's words? In the end, it makes no difference to me personally, but it makes a fuckton of difference to people who are harassed and whose lives are still attempted to be made hell by GamerGaters and aligned groups everyday to not let the voices of those groups grow any louder or for them to be rewarded in any way. Doesn't that matter more than whether or not I play some game I'll in all likeliness forget about in 10 years (and even if I don't, is still unlikely to have any impact on my life either way)? I suppose everyone's priorities are different, but I personally just don't understand what's so hard about passing on a game like this, no matter how good it looks or whatever, when there's so much choice available these days even in terms of amazing looking games that that isn't saying too much by itself, but that's me.
I mean the dude supports GG so giving him money just to see if his game is still a men's right fanfiction isn't something people want to do.
Well there's more going on here if we're being honest. First, it's not just the game's message, it's the creator's viewpoint and the game is reflective of his beliefs. One of my favourite movies is Enemy, and the lead in that has quite the negative view of women, but it's just a story. The view is not shared by the actors or directors unlike The Last Night. Second, the message just so happens to be representative of one of the biggest problems in the gaming industry today which makes it unique in that respect. It's like if someone made a movie about Hollywood failing because of diverse casting or some shit. And last, I tend to view the money I spend on Indie games as support for their project and its creators, more so than when I buy AAA games. And I don't want to support this.
Muffin1611
Banned
Reading reviews should be enough for the people that would play the game to know if it doesn't contain his gamergate views.
Would be definitely a bad thing to give them the benefit of the doubt only to see those messages in the game after already having spent money on it.
MarkMclovin
Member
It's not about the game anymore.
I'd just look at the game and decide if you like it or not and then bail.
I'd just look at the game and decide if you like it or not and then bail.
This reminds me that I recently learned that William Golding (author of Lord of the Flies) was a massive, abusing, rapey arsehole. Sorta puts the book in a different light for me, but at the same time I'll still recommend it to people who haven't read it since it did make a profound impact on me. Of course Golding's been dead for ages so spending money on Lord of the Flies isn't exactly supporting a rapey arsehole financially.
Yeah, it's more complicated than that, but if you're talking with a human being, they aren't going to just say what they mean.
I can tell you're probably not a bigot from other cues, but for a lot of the people saying that they'll buy the game anyway? The cues and implications are pretty easy to read.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I mean, "Harrison Bergeron" is proof it's possible to do a "progressive dystopia" concept well without being anti-equality, in an overarching sense, so the idea that it's inherently wrong or a sign of this or that -ism to do a "what if contemporary social justice rhetoric drives us to a different kind of dysfunction" story is, at the very least, not historically true with respect to the act of storytelling.
That the game rips off virtually everything about its aesthetic is more egregious to me than that its creator has a few questionable views (art is and remains separate from the artist), tbh.
That the game rips off virtually everything about its aesthetic is more egregious to me than that its creator has a few questionable views (art is and remains separate from the artist), tbh.
RiggityRice
Member
Perhaps it's mentioned already but I didn't see anything on the matter in the previous pages..but uhhh any mention of physical copies being produced or is this digital only?
Random Human
They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
You know, it's okay to not buy a video game. Or even just wait a week or two to see reactions and figure out whether it is bad. Bursting in here to say DAY ONE BABY and DOUBLE DIPPIN' LIKE GEORGE COSTANZA sure does sound like dismissing legitimate concerns simply because you watched a cool video game trailer at E3. I get that it's a hype event all about getting people to consume, but the inability of some to even pump those brakes a little bit sure is something.
TheJollyCorner
Member
Agreed.
Can't help but imagine smug grins on the faces of some of the people making those posts. :/
Heavy Iron Industries
Member
Damn, as a person who doesnt own a xbox or Mac, i hope that this'll run on my low-end PC.
I'm 100% that some people just watched the trailer and didn't read the thread and just came to post about how excited they are for the game.
At that point it'd be too late as they already have our money.
Given the behavior of the creator and how it literally hasn't changed for years and that others on his dev team re liking tweets about "SJWs ruining gaming", I can't buy that the game hasn't changed from it's initial concept. Especially given indie games are often influenced even more directly by the worldviews of the devs themselves.
TheOnlyMook
Member
Didn't realize how deep this went. While the game still looks really good, not sure I could buy this in good conscience. I'll admit that I was a little flippant in my previous response and that's my bad.
Daffy Duck
Member
I'll be honest, I know practically zero about GG and have zero interest in any of it, it's the whole gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
I would rather be totally ignorant to it all. That's probably a totally wrong attitude to take but I don't want to know about it either. That's not me saying that with what limited info I do know about it that it was OK or anything for the record.
it's more that "what if the feminists won and it was HORRIFYING" is a really dumb and immature concept that completely misses the point of cyberpunk as a genre and just generally sounds unappealing
i mean if it were just that this guy is a shitty person making a cool game i could understand wanting to buy it but the whole thing comes across as hilariously stupid
crookedaxis
Member
doesn't look like a demanding game. but who knows..
and expect at least a whole year until it comes out, so maybe you'll have time for upgrading your pc D:
The collector's edition will include a box of Red Pills, a web camera, a set of 6 anime avatars, and a 1:20 scale skull.
Absoludacrous
Member
Cool, but this game's narrative structure revolves around the GG ideology. So saying you don't want any exposure to GG and saying you want to play this game are two conflicting viewpoints.
Giftofgab24
Member
He apologized and said he's changed. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at least until he proves otherwise. This world would be infinitely more bleak if we didn't give people a chance to change.
MassiveNights
Banned
Have to say I am pretty intolerant of assholes, but as far as assholes go, this one seems at least willing to reflect on himself and his views.
I understand everyone is not always going to agree with my opinions but as long as they are respectful I am willing to act similarly.
In that sense I find the outrage slightly misplaced in this case, although fair play to people who feel like they can't back this project.
I understand everyone is not always going to agree with my opinions but as long as they are respectful I am willing to act similarly.
In that sense I find the outrage slightly misplaced in this case, although fair play to people who feel like they can't back this project.
Charles Brandon
Member
It does come across as stupid and it's so weird. This is a young guy, who obviously has some talent, and I suppose this is the game that he hopes will make his career. He's spent years on it and taken millions in investment and...he decides to use this make-or-break project as a platform to make a controversial political statement. It's nuts, if indeed that is what he's done.
I personally just don't feel the need to support an ugly person just because their game is pretty.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I mean "Harrison Bergeron" is a pretty damned good story that is essentially situated along the same lines. It's not a fundamentally unsound concept, it's the execution that matters one way or the other.
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