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I think Hal Laboratory has to take the next step with Kirby

NOTE: I'm perfectly aware that there are several spin-offs in between like Epic Yarn, Rainbow Curse or Mass Attack, but my point is that there is a real problem with the main games that has to be solved.

Since Kirby Returns to Dreamland all the entries in the Kirby series have been iterations of the same formula. In five years we've received Kirby Returns to Dreamland, Kirby Triple Deluxe, Kirby Planet Robobot, and now the new Kirby for Switch. And, let me get this straight, I think that they are games that feel way too similar. I find it hard to be excited for a new one, because it is like if I had already played it.

XsWQ1Wb.jpg


Unlike Donkey Kong, Rayman or Mario, Kirby is not a series that has been able to present a lot of novel situations based purely on its level design. At least, not as much as to justify four entries that are that continuist. Yes, there are some good ideas in the games, but they are mixed randomly, they never offer a real challenge and there isn't any incentive to play with elegance, using the powers in order to break through the level and getting better at it.

What bothers me the most is that Kirby games COULD still take advantage of the actual base and keep it fresh with not much effort. These are just some examples:

· Kirby Returns to Dreamland introduced ability-based challenges that showed an amazing level design and some arcade touch, with a clever score system and some good difficulty. If the games had followed that trail designing the core levels like that and maintaining the score system, maybe I would be more interested, so I think that is something that could be easily done. Something like the Jungle Beat of Kirbys, following the steps of those challenges that, anyway, could perfectly be played like normal levels by people not interested in the scores (like Donkey Kong Country Returns/Tropical Freeze levels can be played at a normal pacing, but also offer an incentive of mastering them with the time trials).

· Kirby could also try again the Metroidvania genre. After all, The Great Cave Offensive is one of the most enjoyable modes of Kirby Superstar, and Amazing Mirror failed because of the execution and the map design, not because of the formula not working with the Kirby mechanics.

· A game based exclusively on boss battles. If there is something that Hal Laboratory does really well nowadays is making spectacular battles and designing creatures with awesome routines (being sincere, the final wave of showdowns in Planet Robobot is what I enjoyed of the game the most). And I'm not talking about a minigame with recycled bosses (I'm looking at you, Clash Deluxe), but about a brand new entry focused on fighting new enemies, just like Alien Soldier or Cuphead.

tqy5nGV.png


Notice that all of these are ideas that still could use the actual base of modern Kirbys (I haven't even talked about jumping to the 3D), so I don't think I'm really asking for too much. Four entries in five years are too many, specially if they are that similar between them. I really think that Kirby is a series with a lot of potential, but it has become stagnant for too long, so if other series like Mario or Zelda are now jumping to another level, it's time for Hal Laboratories to be a bit more ambitious if they want their mascot to be still relevant. Or, at least, if they want many of us to feel excited to play a new Kirby again.

*Excuse me for my English, I'm not native!
 

Lynd7

Member
I want them to try and make a 3D platformer, would be interesting to see how they would do it.
 
Completely agree. Even though the Kirby games are consistently high quality it's hard to get excited at this point when the last few have been so similar for the most part.
 
I agree that despite the charm of the series it has definitely felt like they could do a lot more with it.


A Kirby game with even half the ambition of Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey would be a day one purchase for me.
 

Richie

Member
Kirby Robobot may as well be the most ambitious and creative title the platforming series has had in...forever? Such an excellent, polished and utterly ingenious game, the spins given to the series' landmarks like King Dedede or Whispy Woods were genius and its whole design focused and pretty much flawless. Kirby Switch looks severely lacking in comparison. Sure, it looks polished and brings back fan favorite elements like mixed abilities and helpers, but so far, it's like the 3D World of the Kirby franchise coming off the Galaxy caliber game that was Robobot.
 
I know you say you aren't including spin offs, but I don't think that's really fair for a series like Kirby, where the spinoff titles are over half the titles released in the series. Kirby has always been one of Nintendo's most experimental franchises, and that hasn't changed.
 

Ezalc

Member
The only thing Kirby needed to do is bring back ability mixing from Kirby 64, which is the best mechanic in any Kirby game ever. And they're already doing that, so we're good.
 

AndrewPL

Member
I feel like the series is too slow and doesn't involve any skill. Yoshi kinda feels the same.

They need to make the action more precise and faster paced and have areas and levels that need skill to beat.

They all feel like the same game so they definitely need to innovate and having 4 players again doesn't really do that.
 

True Fire

Member
Kirby, Yoshi, and Mario Party are calendar fillers. I feel for Kirby fans in particular, because the series never really reached its full potential, but I don't think Nintendo will invest any time into building it up.
 

Sponge

Banned
I agree. Eventually I hope HAL takes a stab at a 3D Kirby game.

I have to point out though I'm really looking forward to this new Kirby game. I immediately took notice that it's taking similar concepts from the cancelled Kirby Gamecube game I wanted so badly. So this game is almost like a dream come true to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy2l5BSBSL0
 
I know you say you aren't including spin offs, but I don't think that's really fair for a series like Kirby, where the spinoff titles are over half the titles released in the series. Kirby has always been one of Nintendo's most experimental franchises, and that hasn't changed.

It's not that I'm not including them. I appreciate the creativity (and quality) of most of Kirby spin offs. What I want to discuss here is that there is a problem and a serious stagnation with the main series. Making a lot of spin-offs isn't really a solution for that.
 
Kirby was never designed to be a difficult game or series. The flight mechanics alone should have clued anyone in that he's a platformer game for beginners. He's a safe entry way into a genre that can actually be pretty difficult to break into.
 
When Kirby flashed in the screen during the direct I was thrilled but than met with disappointment it looked like your average 3ds Kirby which is fine they're great but I thought they'd try and do for Kirby what Mario and zelda get
 
Kirby was never designed to be a difficult game or series. The flight mechanics alone should have clued anyone in that he's a platformer game for beginners. He's a safe entry way into a genre that can actually be pretty difficult to break into.

An easy game can still be fresh and ambitious with its gameplay. In addition, it can easily offer to experienced players ways to enjoy it without harming its spirit.

Being a begginers game is no excuse for making the same thing again and again.
 
It's not that I'm not including them. I appreciate the creativity (and quality) of most of Kirby spin offs. What I want to discuss here is that there is a problem and a serious stagnation with the main series. Making a lot of spin-offs isn't really a solution for that.
Even then, I don't agree with you about stagnation with the main series. Return to Dreamland was the first real return to form to the traditional style of Kirby game in a long time, after he skipped the GameCube entirely. Then we got Triple Deluxe in the same style, but with 3D foreground and background elements to take advantage of the 3DS, as well as a couple minigames. Robobot added the robot suits and had very inventive level design, with two more minigames that were even deeper than those from Triple Deluxe, both of which are being expanded into full downloadable titles. There is a very clear throughline of evolution for the series in the last 5 years or so. Just because the series hasn't gone full 3D doesn't mean it hasn't evolved.
 
We need a Kirby spectacle fighter, honestly. I feel like that'd be the perfect 3D transition for the series, considering abilities already have lengthy movelists, the combat is fairly fleshed out (though not used to its full potential in 2D), and I think light 3D platforming + ability puzzles would be a nice complimemt to the (ideally engaging) combat. Kirby was never strong with it's platforming anyways, so it just feels better than, say, throwing Kirby in an open sandbox.
 

budpikmin

Member
Me and my brother have a saying "you know where you stand with a Kirby game". I suppose they are too similar and I'd love a truly 3D one but they are all great games of a guaranteed quality.

It should also be mentioned though that outside of the 2D platformers, HAL do actually use Kirby in a lot of experimental spin of titles. Mass attack for example.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
I've heard this, but I've honestly never had the same issue coming to the Kirby games. Usually I would "asterisk" spin-offs away as well for a series, but Kirby has so many of them spanning different gimmicks and features that I would straight bullet point the variety (for better and worse) as a part of the series whole.

That said, I would like a new console mainline title that focused on open-end exploration. I just don't need one or even think mainline Kirby needs to commit to that step anytime soon at the current rate.

I want HAL make another kriby Air ride. Its time for a sequel!

I want this and it's never going to happen. *sniffle*
 
There's an upcoming kirby game coming to 3ds that allows him to move in 3D.

They need to expand on that.

3ds-kirbybb-scrn-03-1492049435352_320w.jpg

That was based on one of the minigames in Planet Robobot. I thought it seemed like a proof-of-concept for a possible 3D Kirby idea.

I was kind of hoping that they'd take the series into 3D. It felt like now's the right time, even the new Yoshi game manages to work in some 3D elements. Planet Robobot managed to feel really fresh, especially since it had this sci-fi tone that informed so much of it. I'm hoping that the Switch game's co-op bent and the return of ability mixing can shake things up a bit more.

Air Ride 2 or Amazing Mirror 2 would be awesome as well.

I think Kirby Switch is the last time they can get away with the 2D formula without at least trying to make a full fledged 3D game

I definitely agree with this. I do partly feel it's a bit of a stepping stone for HAL since they've never done a traditional HD Kirby and Nintendo are probably banking on Kirby being an IP that's important to have in the Switch's second year, so we might get something more ambitious later.
 

rjc571

Banned
Nintendo really should try their hand at making a fully 3D platformer (not extremely limited 3D movement like the new Yoshi game) that isn't Mario some time. I'm getting sick of endless Kirby, Yoshi and DK sidescrollers.
 

Gartooth

Member
I grew up with Kirby games and love them, but everything about it feels way too bland nowadays. The games are good, but I haven't been wowed by one since Canvas Curse.
 
They have polished said formula to sheer perfection though. Robobot blew my mind over and over.

That said, I agree. I've wanted a 3D Kirby since the cancelled Gamecube game.
 
Even then, I don't agree with you about stagnation with the main series. Return to Dreamland was the first real return to form to the traditional style of Kirby game in a long time, after he skipped the GameCube entirely. Then we got Triple Deluxe in the same style, but with 3D foreground and background elements to take advantage of the 3DS, as well as a couple minigames. Robobot added the robot suits and had very inventive level design, with two more minigames that were even deeper than those from Triple Deluxe, both of which are being expanded into full downloadable titles. There is a very clear throughline of evolution for the series in the last 5 years or so.

There is an evolution of the mechanics, but as I said I don't think that is enough to keep the games interesting enough. There have been just too many in a short time and they don't feel different at all even if we can point out some refinement in its core mechanics.

Just because the series hasn't gone full 3D doesn't mean it hasn't evolved.

I wonder if you have read the first post or just the title. I've proposed several ideas that could make a traditional game feel fresh and any of them is going full 3D.
 
They have polished said formula to sheer perfection though. Robobot blew my mind over and over.

That said, I agree. I've wanted a 3D Kirby since the cancelled Gamecube game.
I think that's the think too. They've polished the 2d kirbys perfectly imo I have no qualms with them. I wanna see them get ambitious just go breath of the wild with it(not open world but you know what I mean lol)
 
The current set of Kirby games from RTD onwards are dangerously close to reaching NSMB levels of "this feels way too familiar", well at least the presentation is stellar but the fact that they still haven't bested that first entry (in my opinion of course) of these soon to be four familiar titles certainly makes it seem like Hal have hit a wall.
 
I've wanted a 3D Kirby game for a long while now.

I'll jump back in once they make it.

tumblr_ojr0w4O39k1uhq2kko1_500.gif
Yeah there's some great potential in a fully 3D Kirby

I'm excited for the Switch game, the little of it they showed looked really good, but there is an obvious fatigue with those games. Robotron could have been a lot bigger if it wasn't the seven millionth Kirby side scroller in a row
 

BaconHat

Member
That was based on one of the minigames in Planet Robobot. I thought it seemed like a proof-of-concept for a possible 3D Kirby idea.

I was kind of hoping that they'd take the series into 3D. It felt like now's the right time, even the new Yoshi game manages to work in some 3D elements. Planet Robobot managed to feel really fresh, especially since it had this sci-fi tone that informed so much of it. I'm hoping that the Switch game's co-op bent and the return of ability mixing can shake things up a bit more.

I think its also based on a canceled kirby game for the gamecube.
kirby-gamecube-proto-01.jpg
 

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The 2D games are pretty much perfect. I'm fine with them continuing to pump them out.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
I dont know OP, Planet Robobots like one of the best game in the series.
 
I think its also based on a canceled kirby game for the gamecube.
kirby-gamecube-proto-01.jpg

Ohhh yeah yeah yeah, for sure. I think the moment I played it, I had that sense of familiarity in the back of my mind.

You know it's funny, there are so many cancelled Kirby GC prototypes. I think we all assumed it became Return to Dream Land and that was that, but both Planet Robobot (in that minigame) and even the Kirby Switch game with its co-op seem like ways to salvage some of its unused ideas.
 

El Odio

Banned
I mean they said back during the April Direct they were making a multiplayer action 3DS game for the holidays which certainly at least sounded like it was gonna be something more mainline and less like Clash Deluxe or something. We haven't heard anything about it since to my knowledge though. I expect to see more of it in like an August/September Direct or something.
 

Blues1990

Member
You presented a fair point, as I either ignored or didn't bother playing any of the mainline Kirby games post RTDL for the reasons you've presented with. I'm sure they are fine games, but I was much more enamoured with the spin-off titles because of offering unique gameplay mechanics or challenges.
 
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