We've heard from at least a few developers who have PS4/XB1 crossplay functionality tested and ready to go, with Sony's approval being the only thing standing in the way of it being implemented. That makes for a pretty thin line between "not adding" and "obstructing."
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Tim Sweeney "All platforms should embrace cross-play; it benefits everyone"
- Thread starter ArtHands
- Start date
We've heard from at least a few developers who have PS4/XB1 crossplay functionality tested and ready to go, with Sony's approval being the only thing standing in the way of it being implemented. That makes for a pretty thin line between "not adding" and "obstructing."
And if Sony did allow cross-play people could buy a PS4 instead of an Xbox or Switch to play with their friends there.
RedAssedApe
Banned
#cosplay
Exactly. I notice the trend of people defending Sony's policy here implicitely assuming if there's a true choice, fewer people will buy PS4s. Which is basically rediculous, when broken down.
Unlike 4kbr, CP will benefit developers and ALL MP gamers, whether they advocate for it or not. even if you don't have friends on other platforms, your favorite games will have longer lifespans, Matchmaking will be quicker and provide better matches, smaller/riskier games become more financially viable.
It's just a big win.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Funny you say this..
The reality is, Sony doesn't want you (anyone) to boot up a PS4, then log into Xbox live. Apple or google are NOT direct competitors in the game space, I don't even think the Switch or Nintendo is.. but Sony and MS ARE!
This is not a defense. This is not warrior talk. I'm not a fanboy. It's the fuckin reality.
Also the reality is that Playstation just won't get the update. If an Xbox, of all the devices you can play MC on, is the only appealing or available to you, then Sony has to deal with that reality... if it were me or my company, I'd rather deal with a lost sale, then you taking money out of my pocket. Just saying.
If people don't understand that, then you will never get it... (the main reason why this isn't happening any time soon, imo)
Cross-play has nothing to do with a third-party login unless the game publisher has features that need it. Rocket League is the easy example, which is a counterpoint to the basis of what you're saying. Even beyond that, third-party logins are standard across the industry from companies like Ubisoft, Activision, and EA.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
The login thingy isnt the issue according to both Sony and Microsoft.
Dealing with a lost sale IS taking money out of your pocket in this business. My Minecraft loving friend is now considering double dipping on the Xbox One version because of Sony's decision, which again is more money taken out of their pocket. Aso this problem is also beyond just logging into Live since they are preventing cross play with Rocket League and Tekken which wouldn't be using MS' servers. If this catches on, it only makes other platforms look more attractive and the PlayStation platform more restricted.
Wat
stargateheaven
Member
They all do.
just not with all of each other.
just not with all of each other.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Throwing a bone to MS and nothing more? There are so many things wrong with that statement and you're literally wondering why everyone is calling you out?
Firstly, the two biggest games that Sony is denying approval of are Minecraft and Rocket League.
Minecraft is more popular on Xbox than PS4 despite the install base difference, and Rocket League is incredibly active on Xbox and is constantly in the top 10 played list. Your original post sounds like an uneducated troll who has never used an Xbox One pretending that Xbox users are in desperate need of PS4s player base, when that couldn't very further than the truth.
Secondly, "throwing a bone to MS and nothing more? You do understand why tons of developers are asking for this, right? You act like Microsoft is the one asking for this just because they're open to it, when it's mostly third party developers. And then think of the gamers; Respawn wanted Titanfall 2 to be crossplay and that game, while having a small active community, got dwarfed by bigger multiplayer games and suffered for it. That's an example of a game that could have benefitted from crossplay. Not to mention gaming without barriers; gamers getting to play Minecraft, for example, with each other despite being on an Xbox, Switch, iPad, PC, mobile, etc. That's fantastic and if you think this is all throwing MS a bone and "nothing more" than you are a blind fanboy.
People keep bringing this up... but it doesn't explain Rocket League, Tekken, And Gwent. None of these require live, yet Sony blocks them.
So this can't be "the main reason" why this isn't happening. And there's no indication from Sony that this is a reason at all... they currently allow PSN users to log into several different networks
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Those posts would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that they pop up often and then get high-five'd by a bunch of users who think that idea has any place in reality. I wonder if most of them are even serious or just a joke post with that tone.
The other funny part is that none of the gamers here are on Sony's payroll (outside of a few dev's who I'd bet would still love to see this happen) and through pure fuckery have convinced themselves that Sony's move somehow benefits them and they are arguing in their behalf (not implying you btw).
People are well aware that Sony' isn't for the move, but just to be clear on this, the only people losing in any possible way if Sony sticks to their guns are Sony customers.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Last I heard, it was an issue. Maybe I missed something.. but I was specifically talking about MS and MC, following a discussion, but anyway...
Notice I don't dismiss cross-play at all. Rocket Leauges a different monster as well, but we all have our assumptions, one way or the other. Tim seems to think "it's more to the story", I do too. A reason they didn't come to terms. What I don't think it is, is bravado, if not for the reason I claimed earlier. But if it's totally, for sure not the logging in onto Xbox live on PS4, then I stand corrected. 🤗
You heard from GAF, and GAF invented it as an issue in lieu of other ways of making the situation MS' fault.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Probably...
But let me ask you guys. What could possibly be the hold up. Or the reason they don't want cross-play with other platforms?
I refuse to believe "industry leader". 😂 that can't be it.
So let me in so I can do my part.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Just realize that sony wants no part in cross playing with Xbox right now. That's the only explanation. They will probably reject cross play with Switch if asked. Now if they didn't sell online MP, and were making a killing on it things might have been different.
Unfortunately, free online MP for pay games are a thing of the past on all 3 consoles. Thank goodness for PC.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Nobody has said that was the issue. The thing with Live login is that people found out that the new update for Minecraft needs a Live Login to use the Realms/Crossplay and they latched onto that idea as the reason and people have convinced themselves that it's the main reason even though this was announced a matter of days ago, yet we're well past a year waiting for Sony in regards to Rocket League which doesn't require a login.
As for the second part about Sweeney, I honestly think people are just interjecting their on personal feelings on the matter because if you take a second and look at his comment in context, you'll note that Sweeney isn't talking about Xbox at all... his comment was made in regards to Nintendo Switch embracing cross-play, at that point, note that Switch is joining Xbox/PC, not PS4. The person he's responding to poses the point that PS4 is the only thing stopping complete unification.
Tim's comment about "there's probably more to the story because Sony is super pro PS4 + PC crossplay" might be hinting at something, if it weren't for the fact that it is well known that Sony is pro PS4 + PC crossplay and literally nobody has ever said otherwise. We do know that Sony have actively commented on it themselves and we know they didn't give any nefarious reasoning for the lack of PS4 + Switch or PS4 + XBO crossplay.
ScientificPizza
Banned
hey man what the fuck are you even talking about
Sony has never indicated that they are against 3rd party logins (yes MS is a 3rd party dev from Sony's perspective.) they've allowed numerous 3rd party logins on their system - Uplay, steam, EA account, etc - MC should be no different. These accounts allow for users progress and purchases to be tracked across platforms and ensure users from all networks have unique IDs.
Ploid 3.0
Member
+60fps = PC
-60fps = PS4 and Xbox One
Zero online infrastructure = Switch
Collect Data = Microsoft Minecraft login?
That's what I got + some sarcasm.
I do wonder how cross play between PC, Xbox, and Switch will handle the different performances (competitive cross play, maybe controls too). We'd need to see more Switch games than Minecraft in this trinity of cross play (how often will it be included in cross play even). Rocket League, how does it run on Switch? Resolution? Do they cap the framerate and resolution on PC? How is the Xbox one version? Digital Foundry may need a new segment for crossplay differences unless the devs force a parity between them when cross play is in effect.
I bet only very arcadey, or laid back games will be the focus for cross play. Paragon is on the edge, but they have the keyboard and mouse support on PS4 for people that really want to get competitive.
No this is the reality. Not an explanation for the reality. This is why we are having this conversation.
Frankly I don't care what the explanation is, because it is objectively wrong. Selling online MP should have nothing to do with it- because crossplay wouldn't have any effect on there ability to make ps+ a product that consumers see value in. How many people do you think subscribe to PSN because there is no crossplay with consoles?
Pc gamers have been playing on rigs with varied performance capabilities for ages... there's no need for parity, you just play in your system of choice at the levels your system is capable of.
funkystudent
Member
Still not sure I can argue with Sony blocking the Minecraft / XBL log in setup.
Thats not a cross play set up. Thats selling a Xbox Live game on PSN. Personally dont have a problem with it since I already have a XBL account so whatever, MS has my details but its not hard to see where that might cross a line for Sony. Its kinda nuts Nintendo is OK with it to but it does seem like Nintendo and MS get along pretty well.
Sony is however totally in the wrong for blocking stuff like Rocket League and Gwent from doing full console cross play. There is no reason why PS4 to PC cross play is ok but PS4 to XB1 / Switch cross play isnt. If anything console cross play seems like the more secure option.
Thats not a cross play set up. Thats selling a Xbox Live game on PSN. Personally dont have a problem with it since I already have a XBL account so whatever, MS has my details but its not hard to see where that might cross a line for Sony. Its kinda nuts Nintendo is OK with it to but it does seem like Nintendo and MS get along pretty well.
Sony is however totally in the wrong for blocking stuff like Rocket League and Gwent from doing full console cross play. There is no reason why PS4 to PC cross play is ok but PS4 to XB1 / Switch cross play isnt. If anything console cross play seems like the more secure option.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Hmm... it could be ton of reasons why they don't want to then, or are pro ps4 + PC. Could it be that PC is more reliable, for the network, than one company hosting the whole deal (serious question)? I dunno..
Could it be the inevitable pie chart where it shows another networks slice a little larger? Maybe. Or maybe they are , and just waiting for the right time to announce it. Cause with all this drama(lol) one PSX announcement, would set the roof on fire. Heh..
My head hurts.. 🤕
I know all this, I love my Uplay account. But while those guys run the industry (console industry), they don't have gaming systems that requires you to login too, even before you can touch those/ other accounts.
Let's not pretend Xbox live is Uplay, Xbox live is the originator.
But others have already shot my theory down. So I know what you are saying.
There are honestly very few other arguments that make sense though.
Crossplay would be transparent to PSN, with players from XBL being no different to PC players that are able to join currently. They have p2p scenarios covered (Street Fighter V), server-based scenarios covered (FFXIV), third-party logins covered (SFV again), voice communication covered (Werewolves Within, Star Trek Bridge Crew). The existing crossplay with PC eliminates basically every other line of reasoning beyond "no, not with Xbox/Nintendo".
Plus if we are to believe that Sony was going to allow this stuff last gen, then the positions of being for/against crossplay line up with the change of position of the default "all my friends are there" console. There's very little else to reasonably suggest at this point, and the only reasoning Sony has given was such clear horeshit that it can be dismissed outright.
Cross play or not, PSN users are playing the game on MS servers... that's happening right now, w/o the update. There's no way around it as MS owns the game.
The Xbox live account is so players purchases can be tracked across platforms. There's no way to do this without having all platforms use the same account system. Naturally MS would use their own account system for this purpose.
You also need a central account system if you want players to be able to add people to their friendslist who play on different/multiple systems. If I'm on Xbox, but you jump between switch and iPhone, how else would I be able to invite me to my world ? You need to have all of your versions linked to a single account...
Ploid 3.0
Member
No one has data on that.
When sony announced that PS4 would require a fee, a lot of people had to make a choice, do I pay and support this? Do I stay with live? Do I keep both for as long as it makes sense. Xbox on PC may have made the decision easier for people. Then Nintendo entered the game, but it's not active yet so people will have to decide what they will do with it, it's cheaper at least. I'm sure a industry wide standard for crossplay would relieve some players from feeling obligated to sustain multiple online play fees. Maybe people pay for more than access to online multiplayer, but that's the only reason I'd sub to one. I wish they would just take the MP out of the pay wall, and continue offering good game deals, and free games for people that are interested in that part.
Yeah, that's probably the best route. Though, again using Paragon as an example, the games could be designed with console + PC player pool in mind. People had to wait and wait on new ranger characters, but melee were best for console players so that was Epic's focus.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Ahh.. well that makes sense, I guess. But are still assumptions tho.. especially if it's cause of their stance last gen.
Ok.. well check this out, since their(Sony) stance on cross-play last gen was to be open to it, they know the benefits and what it could do or achieve being in that position(#2? Runner up?). With that said, last gen, MS wasn't open to it, right?
Cause if that's the case, MS would've done the same this gen if they were in Sony's shoes? If so, there really is no one to blame. They each know the benefits of cross-play being the runner up console, thus each would not participate, if were industry leader. As they both have been IL, and not participated at each time they were.
And this is all from your points. I do not have a stake at all in this. I just want to know the truth.
Edit: it still doesn't explain RL..
Yes there is someone to blame, last gen it was MS and now it's Sony. I think Phil is the reason for MS' current stance on this. Watching his conversation with Jeff seemed sincere.
endlessflood
Member
As a console gamer, I don't want to play against people who are using keyboard and mouse, or running at double (or more) of the frame rate I am, or running at double the resolution, or running mods/hacks (see GTA Online). All of those things significantly degrade my experience. Those things are a big part of the reason why I left PC gaming and went to console gaming.
For some games, those things might not matter, so I'd be fine with game-by-game exceptions being made. But as a blanket rule: no way.
For some games, those things might not matter, so I'd be fine with game-by-game exceptions being made. But as a blanket rule: no way.
I think you missunderstood my question. Theoretically speaking, what percentage of gamers perceive a lack of crossplay as a positive attribute of the networks they choose?
Logic would suggest that being the odd man out of a particular feature would make a particular service less attractive in general.
Beyond that. What percentage of gamers actually have multiple subscriptions? To a platform holder, Is arbitrarily forcing this niche market to maintain multiple subscriptions worth making the service or games that require the service less attractive overall?
At the end of the day, even with crossplay, most gamers will have to choose. Usually, gamers choose the console they want based on the price, the games library, and the quality of the hardware. Then they subscribe to whatever service their platform offers. So I don't think adding crossplay would have a negative effect on Sony in anyway, because they are strong in other areas that drive most purchasing decisions. But Sony not having crossplay, will certainly help make Sony's competitors more attractive, especially as more games start offering it- and the fact that we are getting to a point in the gen when 2nd consoles are becoming economically feasible for many gamers should make them weary.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Edit: To the above, I doubt a lot of people will care really. Just my personal opinion. People that do care should move to the console that have what they want. The two console cross platform future was started mid gen, so who knew this was probably going to happen (how many cross gen games will Switch get, really. Hey if they get more third party games because of cross play, that would be amazing). We will find out though, especially if it becomes a big thing that a ton of games start supporting. An actual ton (a lot), not just a few games.
I know the feeling. I had the worst of it in FFXI on PS2 and PS3 (backwards compat). PC players all used uh... add-ons or mods. Like DPS meters, being able to see stuff they shouldn't, enhancements of the UI, and hacks that allowed them to do crazy Quality of life things (also bot claiming). I would have left the main server for a console only server for sure, even leaving friends I made (You know, I think the Xbox 360 players had their own server as an option). I got used to it though, I depended on PC players to let me know what HP % the boss is at, and other useful things. I believe FFXIV is locked down with no add-ons and hacks from what I know (I only played a little of it).
Games these days are good at keeping things even with hardly any hacks. Though Street Fighter V got hacked to high heaven with fight money gaining methods on PC. Also PC SFV has the cool mods.
I know the feeling. I had the worst of it in FFXI on PS2 and PS3 (backwards compat). PC players all used uh... add-ons or mods. Like DPS meters, being able to see stuff they shouldn't, enhancements of the UI, and hacks that allowed them to do crazy Quality of life things (also bot claiming). I would have left the main server for a console only server for sure, even leaving friends I made (You know, I think the Xbox 360 players had their own server as an option). I got used to it though, I depended on PC players to let me know what HP % the boss is at, and other useful things. I believe FFXIV is locked down with no add-ons and hacks from what I know (I only played a little of it).
Games these days are good at keeping things even with hardly any hacks. Though Street Fighter V got hacked to high heaven with fight money gaining methods on PC. Also PC SFV has the cool mods.
rakkadakka
Member
This thread has just been a gold mine all day.
perfectsil
Member
Really not an issue when it's an option in rocket league,gears 4 etc.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
Not sure if this was posted, but it seems Tim has made his stance a bit more clear.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Consoles are going to have this issue too with PS4Pro and XboxOneS
And what you just said is just another reason Sony is making a wrong decision; they crossplay with PC and not other consoles
phantasmic_glaive
Member
I could've bowled a strike the way my eyes were rolling when I watched that..
..And http://bit.ly/2sW0kqr
Sorry I already play with and mouse and keyboard on console. It is great for overwatch and destiny. If you aren't on a pro people are already playing at higher resolution too.
The nice thing about skill based match making is it matters less since people with mouse keyboard are just in a higher skill category.
Yeah I don't see how, Gerstmann is not one to shy away from calling out bullshit. Sure people like Spencer and Cerny say questionable things at times but also show genuine passion for the industry. Plus it's clear you have an issue seeing things objectively. Also it's no longer a wrong if you're not still doing it.
justsomeguy
Member
Crossplay (as discussed for rocket league and most discussions at the moment) is the ability to be randomly matched to people from other platforms.
It's not about being able to make friends, groups, voice chat, private games with your friends on other platforms. That's a whole different discussion.
Edit: Games with dedicated servers /server browsers would allow you to play with friends directly - Minecraft for example i guess (never really played it properly)
Yearsoflurking
Member
it's sad some people don't understand this
DevilWillcry
Member
Sony really need to just bend a bit on their cross platform policies at this point. They need to at least set some cross platform standards so that MS can't force Live login credentials on PSN or some BS like that. There's is no reason we shouldn't unify the online play for all platforms at this point.
GHG
Member
You're either with us or you're against us, there's no middle ground.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Errr... people already are...?
PS4 is outselling XB1 2:1 so it follows logically that more people are buying PS4 to "play with their friends" than XB1, particularly in PS4-dominated regions like Europe.
So it's a very lopsided balance.