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[Hickbilly Deluxe]

I will parent based off information that we have now about raising children and being safe in general. I will not pretend it is 1950 or 1970 and ignore what we have learned since then.

That the world has actually gotten safer, and with a plethora of tracking options available there is no reason to hover over them 24/7 out of some overblown fear of media driven boogiemen?

No, you'll be a helicopter. Just admit it. Because you'll think around ever corner is a kidnapper just waiting to snatch your child and God forbid they are out of your sight for more than a minute.

 

[Munti]

It's interesting to see the different cultures. And I'm feeling sorry for children not experiencing this freedom.

I used to walk alone to the kindergarden with 5 and not long after to take trains and busses, even in the evenings. But of course, it has a lot to do with from where you are

 

[Tertullian]

There is a difference between keeping an eye on kids in a crowded place you're not familiar with and letting your kids play in local parks or walking to school.

The original article and tons of people in this thread are talking about letting children roam and trusting them to take care of themselves, including in crowded places and places the parents aren't necessarily familiar with.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Nah, I largely let common sense, my knowledge of my own kids, and my worldview dictate how I've raised my kids and what I let them do.

Parenting, so far (with my kids being 13 and 11), feels like it's mostly about figuring out how to live with the life you're building for yourself/spouse/whatever and your kids. There's a lot of right-ish answers and most of the absolutely wrong things to do are easy to avoid with half a brain.

If it works for you and your kids, great. If not, that's cool too.

Personally, we've slowly extended the freedom our kids have in the physical world based on how good they are at being responsible and paying attention elsewhere in life. The same is true of their freedom in the online world. So far, they've given me no cause to not let them largely self-regulate these things.

If they approach me asking about something I don't think they should do, I generally talk with them long enough for them to figure out it's not a good idea either. I much prefer that to "Because I said so", and I'm honestly too lazy to be a helicopter parent anyway.

 

[BioHazard]

Well prove it then, otherwise stop making baseless assumptions.

Obviously I can't prove it and it's more of a hunch, I'm using "guarantee" in the same way us goddamn millennials use literally these days. Take a look at the thread for when Harambe happened. The general consensus of the thread was that people literally (proper usage here) wanted the mother to be in prison and the children removed from the home by CPS because she didn't watch every child's every move for every literal second which could have prevented the kid from falling into the enclosure.

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Be a helicopter parent? You're ruining your child's life in a way. Let your children run free like the good 'ol days™? Blamed if, god forbid, something happens to them. Obviously, there needs to be a balance or middle ground, but I'd rather lean closer to the "helicopter" side.

EDIT:

Someone scroll through the post histories of the people saying "Of course this article is right! Filthy American helicopter parents!" Bet you can find at least one who was like "where were the parents when that kid got into that gorilla enclosure! How dare they take their eyes of a single one of their children for literally 10 seconds! Burn them at the stake!"

wow should have refreshed before posting

 

[johancruijff]

are you telling me that all the movies that portray kids being ridiculed because their parents drive them to school are not the reality?

 

[jstripes]

Can you fucking imagine letting a 9 year old little girl walk home by herself every day?

That's just one example of this boomer finding yet another reason to blame gen x and younger parents for fucking everything.

My brother, my sister, and I grew up a block and a half away from our school in the '80s and early '90s. Our parents stopped walking us to school in grade 1 or 2. My mom tells me I insisted on walking to school by myself.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Guarantee there's a significant overlap between the people saying "of course I would let my infant walk home from school unaccompanied! Stop being so scared!" and those that comment on news stories of abductions, etc. "Where were the parents? How could they be so negligent, they should be arrested!"

It's the exact opposite. The blame for a crime should be placed solely on the perpetrator. Blame the kidnapper for kidnapping, not the parents for giving their child independence. Blame the rapist for raping, not the girl who was wearing revealing clothes.

A low-anxiety, low-maintenance parent is the last person who's going to be pointing fingers. Helicopter parents, on the other hand, can't wait to condemn other parents as a way of validating their own misguided nature.

 

[Earthbound64]

are you telling me that all the movies that portray kids being ridiculed because their parents drive them to school are not the reality?

They were 20 years ago.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Obviously I can't prove it and it's more of a hunch, I'm using "guarantee" in the same way us goddamn millennials use literally these days. Take a look at the thread for when Harambe happened. The general consensus of the thread was that people literally (proper usage here) wanted the mother to be in prison and the children removed from the home by CPS because she didn't watch every child's every move for every literal second which could have prevented the kid from falling into the enclosure.

It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Be a helicopter parent? You're ruining your child's life in a way. Let your children run free like the good 'ol days™? Blamed if, god forbid, something happens to them. Obviously, there needs to be a balance or middle ground, but I'd rather lean closer to the "helicopter" side.

EDIT:


wow should have refreshed before posting

These are completely unrelated. Suggesting that a parent should definitely have an unfailing eye on their very young kid when in a high-risk setting, like a gorilla enclosure your kid can climb into, is hardly the same as being bothered that older, more independent kids aren't being given the freedom to explore and to use their brains without adult supervision.

 

[ZackieChan]

are you telling me that all the movies that portray kids being ridiculed because their parents drive them to school are not the reality?

At my sister's kids' school in Palo Alto, everyone lives really close in the neighborhood. But the street is packed with cars every morning and afternoon, picking up and dropping off. Absolutely ridiculous.

I should note that Palo Alto is an EXTREMELY safe place to live. But that probably just increases their fear.

 

[crisdecuba]

I was raised free range and recall several instances in my life that have led me to be a selectively helicopter parent:

1. Narrowly escaped being kidnapped on the way home from school (broke free, ran away): age 11

2. Got my money stolen walking home from Walmart, supposedly the guy (older teen) had a gun, age 14

3. Got my bike stolen and a black eye when I was out riding: age 8

This was all in not-so-bad neighborhoods. So, I'll be driving my kids to school. No sweat off my back.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I feel like that would be an example of the effect, not the cause.

I think at this point it's positive feedback loop, not just with the actual law enforcement but with the societal pressure of your fellow parents. Sometimes that's a force for good, sometimes it's very bad.

When we have kids though my wife and I are definitely not loading up their schedules. Why would you waste the limited free time you have taking your kids to stuff they don't actually want to do, stressing themselves and yourselves out for questionable downstream gain?

 

[Raven117]

most Americans parent based on religious values, not surprised.

Nice side swipe. Considering that the average American is far LESS likely to be religious and that the growing helicopter parent is increasing...I might argue that this is exactly the opposite effect.

 

[PantherLotus]

-- Every single time a kid is hurt, abducted, murdered, raped, killed, or damaged in any way the parents are the first suspects and the first to be blamed. I see it allll the damn time right here on NeoGAF and frankly I've been a part of that. "Who would let their little girl play in the front yard without watching them?" "Who would let their kid go to the coach's house?" "Who lets their 2nd-grader stand at the bus stop by themselves?"

-- Y'all wanna talk about how YOU walked to school uphill both ways when you were still in diapers and never had any problems? You and your safe little suburb, your trusting parents, your lovely community? Well good for you. We'll talk when you have kids and you're making that decision for them.

-- This whole thing is all about how parents are going to get blamed either way, but this time it's because we were all raised by the children of WWII, by actual damn hippies who are now glued to Fox News, by people raised under the existential threat of nuclear annihilation. This is the same damn, tired and worn-out "my kid is special" / "blame the participation trophies!" bullshit from the boomers we all see constantly.

Launch this argument into the sun where it belongs. Yeah we live in fear but 1) our kids are safer than ever perhaps because we're protecting them better than ever and 2) I can't even watch local news because of how fucking scary it is.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

At my sister's kids' school in Palo Alto, everyone lives really close in the neighborhood. But the street is packed with cars every morning and afternoon, picking up and dropping off. Absolutely ridiculous.

I should note that Palo Alto is an EXTREMELY safe place to live. But that probably just increases their fear.

As the article points out, these parents make "a big show when it comes to the small stuff" but often "miss the important parts entirely." A huge part of helicoptering is feeling inadequate as a parent, so you need to maintain the illusion that your child is in danger and that you're protecting them. If that illusion collapses, you'll be forced to confront your shortcomings.

In the same vein is the fact that your own spouse and family members are infinitely more likely to abuse your child physically, mentally and/or sexually than anyone else in their lives, yet the fear is always around the men that interact with them outside of the household.

 

[Sunster]

That the world has actually gotten safer, and with a plethora of tracking options available there is no reason to hover over them 24/7 out of some overblown fear of media driven boogiemen?

No, you'll be a helicopter. Just admit it. Because you'll think around ever corner is a kidnapper just waiting to snatch your child and God forbid they are out of your sight for more than a minute.

lol I think there's some middle ground between using what we have learned about sports like football, corporal punishment, sex education etc... and helicopter parenting. I am not worried about kidnappers or terrorists or aliens or whatever.

 

[Neo C.]

Yes. Imagine 6 year olds doing the shopping.

https://youtu.be/P7YrN8Q2PDU

Japan may be on the top of kids independence scale, but I expect kids to be able to go to school independently as young as 6, really.

 

[norm9]

I was raised free range and recall several instances in my life that have led me to be a selectively helicopter parent:

1. Narrowly escaped being kidnapped on the way home from school (broke free, ran away): age 11

2. Got my money stolen walking home from Walmart, supposedly the guy (older teen) had a gun, age 14

3. Got my bike stolen and a black eye when I was out riding: age 8

This was all in not-so-bad neighborhoods. So, I'll be driving my kids to school. No sweat off my back.

WIth the eception of the attempted kidnapping, doing regular kid stuff is now considered free range?

 

[Kisaya]

It really depends on where you grow up. In Brooklyn, I started going to school by myself when I was 9. When I was 11 I started taking the MTA bus to my middle school, and then when I entered high school at 14 I was taking the subway on my own.

I felt fully equipped to travel the city on my own. What helped was that there was a bunch of kids doing the same, so I always had company with me. You learn street smarts and how to be independent without the risk of being in danger.

Honestly, I can't imagine this happen this with more suburban areas. But don't school buses exist so that parents don't have to drive their kids to school and home?

 

[ScatheZombie]

Yeah we live in fear but 1) our kids are safer than ever perhaps because we're protecting them better than ever and 2) I can't even watch local news because of how fucking scary it is.

Yup, you are simultaneously safer than ever in history and terrorized about how scary everything is.

That's actually the point.

 

[DizzyCaffeine]

It's tough, but literally my worst fear in life right now is letting something bad happen to my daughter that could otherwise be prevented.

 

[knkng]

If you live anywhere other than a town population 300-10,000 it's literally impossible for kids to walk home from school in most cases.

The city I live in now isn't even large and the school she would go to is ~5 miles away and it's mostly highway. No sidewalks most areas.

So, all this is a non-starter.

This is a nonsense point that sounds specific to your situation. I live in Mississauga (750,000), most of the schools are centralized to the neighbourhoods, and around 2:30-3:00 the streets are absolutely flooded with kids walking home.

 

[PantherLotus]

Yup, you are simultaneously safer than ever in history and terrorized about how scary everything is.

That's actually the point.

brb taking some xanax while getting blamed for pharmaceutical culture

 

[Earthbound64]

Yeah we live in fear but 1) our kids are safer than ever perhaps because we're protecting them better than ever

You have research to back this claim up?

 

[BioHazard]

Honestly, I can't imagine this happen this with more suburban areas. But don't school buses exist so that parents don't have to drive their kids to school and home?

It seems like a lot of people are forgetting this. Sure, I don't agree every parent driving their kid to school in Palo Alto creating a ton of traffic, but I may not feel comfortable just letting my children go to and from school themselves and just hope they get there. Especially since suburbs are pretty spread out. So the school bus is a good middle ground. Does no one take the bus anymore?

 

[crisdecuba]

WIth the eception of the attempted kidnapping, doing regular kid stuff is now considered free range?

Your question doesn't really make sense the way you asked it. I think you're trying to say that walking home from school, walking to / from Walmart, and riding your bike around the neighborhood are not "free range" activities. Is that your point? Regardless what I meant by free range is that I basically went out and my parents didn't know where I was or how far I was going.

 

[Dai101]

American society in general is governed by fear.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding

 

[NESpowerhouse]

If you live anywhere other than a town population 300-10,000 it's literally impossible for kids to walk home from school in most cases.

The city I live in now isn't even large and the school she would go to is ~5 miles away and it's mostly highway. No sidewalks most areas.

So, all this is a non-starter.

When I was a kid we lived in a small town and I did walk home from school...

Can confirm. This was true for me as well. There were two elementary schools in the county, but it was still a good 20 minute drive to school.
Ironically, we moved when I was 11 to an even more rural county with a population of around 10,000 where we lived right near the woods behind the school. At first, my mom would try to come pick us up, but even though it was only a five-minute drive, she would take a good 20 minutes to show up. After a point, my brother and I got so fed up with her that we began to walk home every day. The only dangerous thing to happen was when I came face-to-face with a coyote in the woods.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

(hence why most suburban parents drive kids to school even when walking has been proven to be significantly safer)

I think most suburban parents drive their kids to school because they aren't within walking distance lol.

 

[Earthbound64]

Can confirm. This was true for me as well.

You "can confirm" the statement "If you live anywhere other than a town population 300-10,000 it's literally impossible for kids to walk home from school in most cases" because it "was true for [you] as well"?

A single isolated point is not "confirming."
It's anecdotal.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

brb taking some xanax while getting blamed for pharmaceutical culture

why do you care so much about being blamed for cultural/generational whining

 

[Ogodei]

Yes. Imagine 6 year olds doing the shopping.

Granted this is a Japanese fluff piece, but it's pretty much solely intended to push their kids as young as 4 to be able to function independently in order to do simple things like attend/return from school or go to a corner store unattended.

Until I hit 7, I was expected to be able to get to school, after school activities and home independently with very little deviation (baseball practice was across town when I played so that was an issue). If I ever have kids, which is extremely unlikely, I'd assume that they'd have to do the same.

Or like the high school anime where teens live on their own, which seems fanciful to us but does actually happen in Japan (if your school is far enough away that commuting from your house would be a burden, so your parent/other family member just sets you up with as big of an apartment that they can afford).

I do recall being in Japan and seeing a bunch of kindergarten kids wandering around Roppongi near the Russian embassy at dusk.

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

Y'all wanna talk about how YOU walked to school uphill both ways when you were still in diapers and never had any problems? You and your safe little suburb, your trusting parents, your lovely community? Well good for you. We'll talk when you have kids and you're making that decision for them.

Not everyone who walked alone home lived in a sheltered neighborhood.

I grew up in the shit stain that was New Bedford, Massachusetts since in the late 90s, specifically the riverside of the area. It's considered to be one of the least safe places in the country. My community was mostly drug addicts, gangsters, prostitutes, and a couple of old people. My mother didn't have the privilege to escort me back in forth.

 

[PantherLotus]

You have research to back this claim up?

perhaps

 

[GatorBait]

Launch this argument into the sun where it belongs. Yeah we live in fear but 1) our kids are safer than ever perhaps because we're protecting them better than ever[.]

Is this true though? I always thought part of the point with these types of articles is that the difference in danger/safety between recent decades has been negligible.

 

[NESpowerhouse]

You "can confirm" the statement "If you live anywhere other than a town population 300-10,000 it's literally impossible for kids to walk home from school in most cases" because it "was true for [you] as well"?

A single isolated point is not "confirming."
It's anecdotal.

Whatever man.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

-- Every single time a kid is hurt, abducted, murdered, raped, killed, or damaged in any way the parents are the first suspects and the first to be blamed. I see it allll the damn time right here on NeoGAF and frankly I've been a part of that. "Who would let their little girl play in the front yard without watching them?" "Who would let their kid go to the coach's house?" "Who lets their 2nd-grader stand at the bus stop by themselves?"

-- Y'all wanna talk about how YOU walked to school uphill both ways when you were still in diapers and never had any problems? You and your safe little suburb, your trusting parents, your lovely community? Well good for you. We'll talk when you have kids and you're making that decision for them.

-- This whole thing is all about how parents are going to get blamed either way, but this time it's because we were all raised by the children of WWII, by actual damn hippies who are now glued to Fox News, by people raised under the existential threat of nuclear annihilation. This is the same damn, tired and worn-out "my kid is special" / "blame the participation trophies!" bullshit from the boomers we all see constantly.

Launch this argument into the sun where it belongs. Yeah we live in fear but 1) our kids are safer than ever perhaps because we're protecting them better than ever and 2) I can't even watch local news because of how fucking scary it is.

IDK, my own mother looks down pretty heavily on helicopter parenting, and she raised three kids.

 

[Fenderputty]

I grew up in a grammar school where kids would walk home (Late 80's). My mother thought their parents were insane. She was always a little over protective though. Still ... I ended up fine and so will my child who will also not be walking home in grammar school.

 

[Marmaladefire]

It seems like a lot of people are forgetting this. Sure, I don't agree every parent driving their kid to school in Palo Alto creating a ton of traffic, but I may not feel comfortable just letting my children go to and from school themselves and just hope they get there. Especially since suburbs are pretty spread out. So the school bus is a good middle ground. Does no one take the bus anymore?

School buses and school zoning doesn't always match up for all kids, school buses can come crazy early, meaning a kid doesn't even get enough sleep. Like at the bus stop at 5:45 to get to school at 7:30, etc.

---
The "high schoolers live alone" thing in anime isn't all that realistic, unless you're rich and whatever school you just ~have go to is just prohibitively far /you live in a dorm, right?

Like..as far as I've been told, most regular people wouldn't consider that lol

 

[ChubbyHuggs]

I kind of remember that story. Didn't she leave her kid unsupervised for hours at the park though? If that's the case, then that's deserved. A park is not a babysitter for your child while at work.

If it's the one I'm thinking off the older kid walked her sibling to the park and they played for a while before someone called the cops. The parents got in trouble for neglect, endangerment or some bullshit like that.

 

[cromofo]

I used to walk to kindergarten by myself every day.

We played football/soccer on the road next to a wall with over 10 meter drop behind it every day until it got dark. If the ball had gotten into the sea, a few of us would use a surfing board to fetch the ball.

We used to tie a rope on a tree on a slope near the beach and launch ourselves down the slope. Ended up bruised and cut every day.

We swam during summer unsupervised most of the time. We'd take canoes and go anywhere we wanted.


I can't imagine today's kids doing that nowadays. My little nephew would probably kill himself if he were left outside all day.

 

[borghe]

sadly my daughter's mom and step-mom (my wife) are exactly like this. She can't walk 4 blocks without someone lurking to abduct her. It is frustrating to no hell. I do everything I can to fight against it.. and she (my daughter) is on my side. So she bikes 2.5 miles home at night and then we get yelled at about how dangerous it is for her.

I just try to teach her common sense. She wants to walk for 10-15 minutes late at night.. no problem.. about the only time I told her I was uncomfortable was when she was figuring out how to get home at 11pm where it was about 3 miles. a 16 year old girl walking home alone for 45 minutes across town at 11pm probably isn't the smartest move.

 

[Deepwater]

I walked home from school from grades 1-3 from 00-03. And my walk was about 15-25 minutes. But then again I also walked with my older sister and my parents probably wouldn't have let me walk alone if she wasn't there. But this was a small town with 1 elementary, middle, and high school.

When I moved to a larger city with a (much) bigger school district, some people walked home but only if they lived like down the street. Most of it was by bus or car because otherwise people would be spending upwards to an hour walking home.

Although, kids do walk alone in places like NYC, but everybody walks up there.

 

[____]

I'll beat yo ass if you tell them social workers he live here
I'll beat yo ass if I beat yo ass twice and you still here
Seven years old, think you run this house by yourself?
Nigga, you gon' fear me if you don't fear no one else

 

[ZackieChan]

It seems like a lot of people are forgetting this. Sure, I don't agree every parent driving their kid to school in Palo Alto creating a ton of traffic, but I may not feel comfortable just letting my children go to and from school themselves and just hope they get there. Especially since suburbs are pretty spread out. So the school bus is a good middle ground. Does no one take the bus anymore?

You obviously don't live in Palo Alto. I don't think there are busses.
There sure as fuck are bikes, though, and it's not that spread out.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Can you fucking imagine letting a 9 year old little girl walk home by herself every day?

That's just one example of this boomer finding yet another reason to blame gen x and younger parents for fucking everything.

I walked home. I rode my bike home. I rode my bike to friends houses, and much of this taking place on the main road. Most of us did this (90's), and frankly, I couldn't imagine it any other way. We were everywhere in our town.

I understand why people worry though, so I don't judge too much unless it's particularly ridiculous.

 

[ScatheZombie]

It really, really depends where you live.

I live in a conservative state in a city of ~100k. I also work in a game store (board, card, comics). A good number of our regular customers are children between 10 and 14 that come and go completely independently. There's also a few kids who only come into the shop with their mom or dad who just sits in the corner while they play Magic for hours.

The independent children seem way more mature, confidence, and friendly.
The other kids seem way more shy, quiet, and timid.

So I can totally see where someone would get the impression that a more independent child, especially older children (12+), have better personal development than the kids whose parents literally hover over them every second.

Granted, there's obviously a lot of grey areas and degrees of independence/coddling. But of course people act like there's only keeping your child on a literal leash until they're 18 or letting them backpack across the country alone at age 4.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

https://youtu.be/P7YrN8Q2PDU

Japan may be on the top of kids independence scale, but I expect kids to be able to go to school independently as young as 6, really.

That whole video, and most of the streets had more pedestrians than cars on them, and where there were cars, there were nice sidewalks, and the cars were going 10 mph. Our road is 45 mph (and most do 50-55) with no shoulder or sidewalk at all. Most of the road has 1 - 2 feet between the road line, and a hill of some sort.

 

[PantherLotus]

I mean, look at just THIS thread. You're all blaming parents for being overprotective. But when bad things actually happen that could've been prevented it's the same story.

And to the person that asked, it's really not about being judged or blamed so much as the chance that something terrible happens and you could've prevented it. I dunno. Parenting is the hardest thing ever, and there are no good, risk-free choices. Either you fuck them up with negligence, or you fuck them up with overprotection. Or you, like every parent in history, do your best with what you're given while being judged no matter what you do.