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Wired: These Days It Makes More Sense For Batman To Be A Villain
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
While true that the idea is mundane by 2017 standards, it depends on the portrayal of Batman as to where Batman falls on the spectrum and whether or not there is sufficient subtext to come to that conclusion.
Batman of the Animated Series? Sure, I totally believe he wants to help the people he subdues and truly believes that people can come back from the brink. Entire episodes are spent on Batman trying to help these people and giving them chance after chance without resorting to any more violence than absolutely necessary and sending them to *gasp* actual mental health facilities. You can argue whether or not his tactics are ethical or not and whether they help or not, but you can't really argue that he doesn't try to help these people in his own way.
Batman of the Arkham game series?
Arkham Asylum literally has Batman going into an asylum, which if Gotham had any standards should have been shut down long ago for being destitute based off the mold and scum and general filth of the place, and beating the shit out of anyone who rises against him. Mentally invalid patients, the criminally insane, etc. It's no fucking wonder none of these people get better. And hey, if they had done that as a commentary on the current state of mental health and prison reformation, that'd be awesome. But somehow I doubt that since all of them are shown to be violent psychopaths rather than frightened mentally ill patients who can't help themselves. Because beating up sympathetic mentally ill patients would probably take away from the fun of the game, and we can't have that. Nor could we make a Batman game not about Batman beating the ever living crap out of everyone.
Arkham City has inmates talking about how Batman broke "a dozen of my bones" subduing them. Great way to reform criminals! And because the creators probably figured out that people would be uncomfortable with beating up sympathetic criminals, all of them are irredeemable scum based off the scanner conversations.
Arkham Knight?
George Zimmerman
Oops, wait yeah you're right. Way too many people think he did nothing wrong. Wired is assuming most people are woke, which obviously they aren't.
Just considering how bad the police is getting in terms of sweeping their own crimes under the rug, and the new wave of abuse-friendly institutional policy coming down the pipe from the Executive and select members of the Judicial branch, the murmurings of violence against people because of politics, as well as the actual acts committed against others in the name of race, religion, and party, when people are pinning their hopes and making heroes of people who they hope can take down what our electoral system has wraught - I'd say BATMAN is more relevant than ever.
Maybe if the writers had noticed what the tide was bringing, they would have put the Joker away years ago and turned to some more relatable story ideas.
Maybe if the writers had noticed what the tide was bringing, they would have put the Joker away years ago and turned to some more relatable story ideas.
talkingood
Member
Man this guy's artwork is unreal. What a talent. The colours look great too, but with the noir look of his art I'd almost want a b&w version or an Artist's Edition at original size...
Not to mention the glorification of vigilantism as a power fantasy in fiction as a whole.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
benicillin
Banned
I'm going to guess that the Joker isn't necessarily the hero of the story.
ChubbyHuggs
Member
Loving that art.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Harley will be in the story and her relationship with this version of the Joker will not be abusive.
https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/status/883415815336407049
https://twitter.com/Sean_G_Murphy/status/883415815336407049
excelsiorlef
Member
Heh this feels like Murphy's a Joker fan and is writing his wish fulfilment book.
Permanently A
Junior Member
The art looks gorgeous, I'm interested in this
an evil batman isn't that much different from a good batman when you think about it. only need to move 2 or 3 factors around.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
The Joker ideas are stupid, but this Batman story probably needed to be written at this point.
I mean, Chicago has a lot of these problems too and The Oath Keepers are still a terrible idea for Chicago.
I mean, Chicago has a lot of these problems too and The Oath Keepers are still a terrible idea for Chicago.
Isaac Otherworld
Member
Especially after The Dark Knight happened and was a tacit endorsement spying on the entire population.
Lol, I had the same thought. Has he even seen Mad Men?
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
He's talking about this Elseworld Joker, who isn't the bad guy.
excelsiorlef
Member
That actually makes me feel better.
Mr. Poolman
Member
What a creative new idea!
Batman is a good example to illustrate it, but I think it's really a more generalized problem that superhero fiction for anyone with leftist or anarchist leanings. Even "good" superheroes wind up playing the role of volunteer cop, serving the interests of the state and usually doing nothing to address the systemic causes of crime and villainy even when they're just trying to protect people on an individual level.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It'll be refreshing to see how a writer who doesn't worship the Joker does with the character, even if it's an Elseworld story.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
He kinda did in Injustice.
I am not sure I would necessarily politically qualify it like that. The bigger problem in superhero fiction is the glorification of vigilantism, often a power fantasy in comics where the superhero takes justice into their own hands, without all the messy stuff that happens in real life. The state is rarely portrayed in a positive manner (e.g. as fundamental or trustworthy). These superheroes fundamentally oppose the monopoly on legitimate use of force (in German "staatliches Gewaltmonopol") and thus the state itself. If we look at MCU, DCEU and FOX, this type of superhero seems to be much more popular these days.
That doesn't mean one can't enjoy the movies or comics of course.
Indrid Cold1
Member
God this sounds beyond terrible. Shitty "Hey guise what if the goody was actually a baddy" premise, shitty art, and shitty politics. Will avoid like the plague.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Already judging the book before it's out, huh?
Dude Abides
Banned
This is an 80 year old property that comes out at least once a week. There aren't going to be new ideas.
For like two scenes, then bailed out and got redeemed. He also stayed good in the Justice Lords storyline in the animated series.. seems like they only make him evil when he's being incompetent with the time stream.
What about the politics is shitty?
WrenchNinja
Member
I know art is subjective but I find it hard to stomach someone calling Sean Murphys art shitty
I really hope he goes after Batman for having a weird child army and how insane and psychologically fucked up it is.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Especially since he won an Eisner.
RoninChaos
Member
Well that's a totally unique thing to do.
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I love the idea of the Joker going around promoting mental wellness, kissing babies, solving racism while Batman is running around going "THE GODDAMN JOKER! I KNOW HE'S PLOTTING SOMETHING! I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM! YOU HAVE A PROBLEM! I'M NOT CRAZY!".
And then the series ends with Bruce refusing to confront his own craziness and his addiction to it while The Joker simply ends up pitying him.
And then the series ends with Bruce refusing to confront his own craziness and his addiction to it while The Joker simply ends up pitying him.
Fancyarcher
Member
Yeah, and while we're at it, why don't we go back to Batman's classic hatred of rock & roll. Anyone remember that? It's sure to be a novel concept.
Sounds like the kind of thing that DiDio would greenlight for sales, oh wait.
Sounds like the kind of thing that DiDio would greenlight for sales, oh wait.
Bruce has more plot armor 🎲
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Didio also greenlit Batman stories you like. It's a story with a lot of potential. Sean Murphy isn't known to work on Bullshit. His track record is solid.
LordOfLore
Banned
They actually brought that up in a All-Star Batman issue.
excelsiorlef
Member
This thread is fucking weird to me.
I think it sounds perfect. Exactly the kind of thing I want to see after the ridiculousness that was the Arkham video game series. An antidote to all the mindless brutality they parade as "heroism". I really badly want to see a protagonist that tries to push society towards real solutions rather than gunning for what instinct tells us is 'right', and the Joker being used for that role has me incredibly excited.
But apparently none of that matters because "it's all been done before" or because it's "shitty politics" (seriously, what? this is GAF we're posting on, right?). Even the brilliant art being showcased here isn't enough for some folks to at least give it a chance.
Says a lot about where folks' priorities lie, I think.
I think it sounds perfect. Exactly the kind of thing I want to see after the ridiculousness that was the Arkham video game series. An antidote to all the mindless brutality they parade as "heroism". I really badly want to see a protagonist that tries to push society towards real solutions rather than gunning for what instinct tells us is 'right', and the Joker being used for that role has me incredibly excited.
But apparently none of that matters because "it's all been done before" or because it's "shitty politics" (seriously, what? this is GAF we're posting on, right?). Even the brilliant art being showcased here isn't enough for some folks to at least give it a chance.
Says a lot about where folks' priorities lie, I think.
This is an alternate continuity. The Joker is not a murderer in this version of the Batman universe.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Batman is a pretty terrible superhero anyway. Seriously instead of actually spending his billions and trying to help the poor out of poverty (and thus preventing people from turning to crime), he puts on a costume to punch people in the face. Not only do they eventually break out again and again, but he refuses to kill them and thus a never ending cycle ensues. The character needs to be retired, he is just awful.