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[Burt]

Ok so he didn't want a war with the Lannisters... but he happily marries the girl implicated in the assassination of the King and wanted by the Queen Regent into his family. Kinda think pissing off the Lannister is inevitable at this point. Simply going ahead with this plan is an act against the Lannisters, end of story. I don't deny that it makes sense for Roose Bolton to seek out this marriage, only that by arranging it Littlefinger puts himself at great risk for a reward he could easily achieve after Stannis has been dispatched.

You're right, pissing off the Lannisters was an inevitable end to a necessary decision. But it isn't like Roose wrote a letter to Cersei telling her that he was done with her now that Sansa was part of the family. He just wanted a Stark heir, and probably would've handed Sansa over afterwards. That's feasibly negotiable, or at least something he could maybe delay through. If anything, the Boltons being the Boltons would've made that wait more tolerable for Cersei.

And even though he could after the battle, Littlefinger doesn't want to take Winterfell, he wants Winterfell to be given to him legitimately. That required pitting the Lannisters and Boltons against each other with Sansa. Taking Winterfell by force from a weakened House Bolton that wasn't harboring Sansa would just be rebellion. So sure --

The exact same is true if he does send Sansa to Winterfell, which he does and Cersei doesn't follow up on at all. What if he sends Sansa to Winterfell and Cersei checks on it without telling Littlefinger, it's going to look pretty suspect when Roose starts namedropping Littlefinger for no good reason. That's to say nothing of Littlefinger misjudging Roose's loyalty to the Lannisters, exposing his hand too early with Sansa and implicating HIMSEFLF in Joffrey's death by harboring a fugitive from the Crown only for Roose to turn around and send Littlefinger's messages down to Cersei as a warning to her.

He "advises caution" with Cersei, telling her they should let Stannis and the Boltons fight and then take Winterfell from the weakened victor. Nothing about his plan actually requires Sansa to be inside Winterfell.

-- he could've lied and probably possibly gotten away with the same thing, but at that point you don't have a story, you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. He might as well say the Boltons are conspiring with the Targaryens and Dany is arriving in Winterfell soon with 100,000 Dothraki.

Sansa is in Winterfell. Littlefinger tells Cersei Sansa is in Winterfell. Cersei says 'Okay, Sansa is in Winterfell, so screw them'. We move on, because it's established. That we didn't see Cersei work her way through the fact-checking process or we didn't see an off-chance hypothetical isn't a red flag for shenanigans. I'm perfectly okay assuming that if Sansa wasn't in Winterfell then Cersei would find out, the same way that I'm confident that there are some sort of toilet-like devices in the Star Wars galaxy, even though I've never seen one there.

.

All of that is perfectly valid, if your goals are the same as Sansa's. Littlefinger's aren't. He doesn't want to join a rebellion, or make the North safe for Starks again, or take back Winterfell by force. He wants to be granted the North because he swooped in with 95% of the battle fought and tipped the scales in whatever direction would be most favorable to him, and Sansa doesn't have the leverage to make things otherwise.

What doesn't make "sense" is him ceding Winterfell to Sansa, Jon, and their negligible force after mopping up the Boltons. He was fulfilling the Lannister end of the plan, but didn't follow through. That's either due to bad writing, or to Sansa, and we won't know the deal with that until the show tells us.

 

[Speevy]

I don't necessarily agree with that. Surely someone as connected as Littlefinger at least knows the Lannister army just lost the Tyrell alliance, or at the very least was itself held hostage by the faith militant.

Jaime Lannister is commanding what, 7,000 Lannisters to march on Riverrun while the capital is undefended.

I think Littlefinger himself referred to the Lannisters as something like a "spent force".

Littlefinger likes the little usurper's game he was able to play in King's Landing, but Cersei shut the whole game down. Everyone is gone but her brother.

So if Cersei sent another Lannister host to Winterfell with the purpose of taking Stark hostages, she'd find a very confused and battle-ready Vale force ready to defend Sansa (their original purpose for battle).

 

[DarkJediKnight]

You're right, pissing off the Lannisters was an inevitable end to a necessary decision. But it isn't like Roose wrote a letter to Cersei telling her that he was done with her now that Sansa was part of the family. He just wanted a Stark heir, and probably would've handed Sansa over afterwards. That's feasibly negotiable, or at least something he could maybe delay through. If anything, the Boltons being the Boltons would've made that wait more tolerable for Cersei.

And even though he could after the battle, Littlefinger doesn't want to take Winterfell, he wants Winterfell to be given to him legitimately. That required pitting the Lannisters and Boltons against each other with Sansa. Taking Winterfell by force from a weakened House Bolton that wasn't harboring Sansa would just be rebellion. So sure --

-- he could've lied and probably possibly gotten away with the same thing, but at that point you don't have a story, you're just pulling stuff out of your ass. He might as well say the Boltons are conspiring with the Targaryens and Dany is arriving in Winterfell soon with 100,000 Dothraki.

Sansa is in Winterfell. Littlefinger tells Cersei Sansa is in Winterfell. Cersei says 'Okay, Sansa is in Winterfell, so screw them'. We move on, because it's established. That we didn't see Cersei work her way through the fact-checking process or we didn't see an off-chance hypothetical isn't a red flag for shenanigans. I'm perfectly okay assuming that if Sansa wasn't in Winterfell then Cersei would find out, the same way that I'm confident that there are some sort of toilet-like devices in the Star Wars galaxy, even though I've never seen one there.



All of that is perfectly valid, if your goals are the same as Sansa's. Littlefinger's aren't. He doesn't want to join a rebellion, or make the North safe for Starks again, or take back Winterfell by force. He wants to be granted the North because he swooped in with 95% of the battle fought and tipped the scales in whatever direction would be most favorable to him, and Sansa doesn't have the leverage to make things otherwise.

What doesn't make "sense" is him ceding Winterfell to Sansa, Jon, and their negligible force after mopping up the Boltons. He was fulfilling the Lannister end of the plan, but didn't follow through. That's either due to bad writing, or to Sansa, and we won't know the deal with that until the show tells us.

My hunch is that Littlefinger underestimated that the North is more inclined to follow someone brave vs rightful heir. Littlefinger assumed that the North would make Sansa Queen of the North because she is true heir to Winterfell. His goal at this point is for everyone to choose him as Sansa's husband for bringing the knights of the Vale to assist.

However, the Lord's of the North picking Jon confirms that people didn't just pick Robb Stark to be the king of the North because he's a Stark, but that he's a Stark who is brave and follows his men into battle.

Perhaps It's a sexist stance but it looks like the North wants a war-tested king with honor than the rightful heir of Winterfell who never lifted a sword in Sansa.

 

[mantidor]

I was already pissed about season 5 tomfoolery with Sansa and Little finger and you people have now explained to detail why it was one of the worst writing decisions done in a show with terribly bad writing decisions. It just makes want to punch a wall or something.

And I guess is the same with season 6, how Glover, as amazing as the actor was, how he change heart, and how the Starks kids didn't care he offered no support before. His head should be on a stick, but all logic and world consistency has flown out of the window by now.

The show's writing does not deserve these actors.

 

[SerAardvark]

And I guess is the same with season 6, how Glover, as amazing as the actor was, how he change heart, and how the Starks kids didn't care he offered no support before. His head should be on a stick, but all logic and world consistency has flown out of the window by now.

How is it logical for them to execute the heads of (apparently) any house that didn't support them when they need to unify the North quickly, both in case of retaliation from the Crown but also because of the impending attack from north of the wall?

Maybe the Umbers/Karstarks, but Glover simply sat out the battle (and with a sympathetic/understandable reason). What does it say to the other northern houses if Jon/Sansa then put his head on a stick when he admits fault? Executing him would be far more illogical and stupid than offering forgiveness.

 

[mantidor]

What does it say to the other northern houses if Jon/Sansa then put his head on a stick when he admits fault? Executing him would be far more illogical and stupid than offering forgiveness.

That is the thing he shouldn't even be in that meeting in the first place.

He didn't just sat out, he told in the face of the only Stark alive (at least for them) that her house is dead, and there were no consequences? A cute speech and everything is resolved? It doesn't fit into this world, specially with how the North works.

I'm not saying it's impossible, house Glover might be able to save face somehow, but not in the way the show did it.

 

[SerAardvark]

That is the thing he shouldn't even be in that meeting in the first place.

It's a gathering of all the Northern houses (except presumably Umber and Karstark). Jon and Sansa need to unite the North and they can't really leave anyone out after the casualties they suffered at Winterfell (even with the Vale alongside them). How can they hope to accomplish their goals if they exclude everyone that didn't immediately join their cause? Especially when three major houses were actively hostile toward them - they need every house/soldier they can get.

He didn't just sat out, he told in the face of the only Stark alive (at least for them) that her house is dead, and there were no consequences? A cute speech and everything is resolved? It doesn't fit into this world, specially with how the North works.

Sure, maybe they could have made the scenes of the houses asking for forgiveness longer/more detailed. But is that really worth the additional time and expense (or add much to the narrative)? Do we need lengthy scenes for each house where they prostrate themselves before Jon/Sansa? That doesn't serve the show's purpose (it would be repetitive and boring) and draws out a reconciliation process Jon and Sansa need to complete quickly.

Now, I will say that if the Umbers and Karstarks are rehabilitated that easy, I would have a problem with it (I'm assuming there are still surviving members of those houses)

I'm not saying it's impossible, house Glover might be able to save face somehow, but not in the way the show did it.

I don't know, to me it seems way more logical for Jon and Sansa to recognize that they're better served by smoothing things over so the North doesn't get overrun while they get their petty vengeance against every house that slighted them in some way.

I get it's not the undying loyalty many Northern houses had in the books but given the overall structure of the Northern arc in the show, it's a practical solution (and certainly a lot smarter than chopping off heads or dragging out the reconciliation process). Winter has arrived; it isn't the right time to be dicking around with politics.

 

[Sean C]

And even though he could after the battle, Littlefinger doesn't want to take Winterfell, he wants Winterfell to be given to him legitimately. That required pitting the Lannisters and Boltons against each other with Sansa. Taking Winterfell by force from a weakened House Bolton that wasn't harboring Sansa would just be rebellion. So sure --

No, that was not his plan.

The deal with Cersei involved giving her Sansa's head, which he obviously never intended to do. The sole purpose of the whole convoluted Sansa plot was to get the Lannisters' consent to move the Valemen through the Riverlands to the North without raising suspicions. Once he actually defeated the Boltons, Cersei would immediately know Littlefinger had double-crossed her, as indeed, she did.

 

[Atraveller]

I think Littlefinger is in as interesting a spot as he's ever been right now. Since the beginning of the series, he's managed a clear upward progression, from brothel owner, to master of coin, to lord of Harrenhall, to presumably soon-to-be Lord of the Vale.

Delivering Sansa to the Boltons and then informing the Lannisters was supposed to be the next step in that trajectory - if the Lannisters won the resulting conflict, Littlefinger would be the obvious choice for Warden in the North, but if the Boltons won, he'd have solidified his northern alliance and the political landscape in the south would be wide open. Maybe he could've even taken on a weakened House Bolton with the knights of the Vale and 'rescued' Sansa to claim the north.

But, all that depended on Sansa being on his side. When he whiffed on his read of Ramsay Bolton, he ruined pretty much all of his plans. Now Jon Snow is back in town, Sansa despises him, and he's officially, outwardly aligned himself against the Lannisters by siding with Winterfell. For the first time in a while, maybe that we've ever seen, his plans are super fucked and his back's against the wall. I think that has plenty of potential for him to have an interesting story this season, if it's written well.

In my opinion, Petyr's current position is the result of writers making room for the maneuver out of the corner that was Ramsay/Sansa marriage, rather than a deliberate direction writers wanted him to go. He was a master 4D chess player, and was extremely successful in his endeavors, spurning allies on all sides, leaving his only claim to physical power the Vale one (which could be undone easily), this is very unlike the Littlefinger we know.

I think Petyr will twirl his mustaches, and teleport to wherever the plot has need of him, until he gets offed by Sansa for another "empowering" moment this season.

 

[Speevy]

Ned Stark was supposedly the most honorable and law-abiding of all the Starks, and he would have executed every man who called his wife a foreign whore or turned his back on their oath.

If you forgive all the traitors for all time just because they promise not to do it again, how long will it be before the next Roose Bolton or Walder Frey murders your men for Lannister gold?

 

[Atraveller]

No, that was not his plan.

The deal with Cersei involved giving her Sansa's head, which he obviously never intended to do. The sole purpose of the whole convoluted Sansa plot was to get the Lannisters' consent to move the Valemen through the Riverlands to the North without raising suspicions. Once he actually defeated the Boltons, Cersei would immediately know Littlefinger had double-crossed her, as indeed, she did.

Littlefinger is one man and too far away to be on Cersei's attention right now. She has whatever that was left of the Tyrells and the new Dorne/Targaryen alliance to deal with.

 

[Speevy]

Littlefinger is one man and too far away to be on Cersei's attention right now. She has whatever that was left of the Tyrells and the new Dorne/Targaryen alliance to deal with.

This would be the perfect time to show commoners starving to death because of a lack of food supplied by the Tyrells.

Rome managed this storyline and did it while cramming 3 seasons into one.

 

[Burt]

No, that was not his plan.

The deal with Cersei involved giving her Sansa's head, which he obviously never intended to do. The sole purpose of the whole convoluted Sansa plot was to get the Lannisters' consent to move the Valemen through the Riverlands to the North without raising suspicions. Once he actually defeated the Boltons, Cersei would immediately know Littlefinger had double-crossed her, as indeed, she did.

Yep, you're right. Got my wires crossed there. It ends in pretty much the same spot, though. Littlefinger turns the Lannisters and Boltons against each other, brings his men through, mops up the remnants of the battle, and takes Winterfell. He just plans to set himself and Sansa on the throne in Winterfell instead of returning it to the Lannisters and having them make him Warden.

I feel like I'm getting tripped up by all the posts though. It.. doesn't seem that convoluted? The fact that he was going to prop Sansa up the whole time really just clears the whole thing up. Other than where Baelish gets his teleporters, obviously.

 

[Atraveller]

Will Euron finish building his ships in time for season 7 from the forest(lol) of Iron Islands?

This would be the perfect time to show commoners starving to death because of a lack of food supplied by the Tyrells.

Rome managed this storyline and did it while cramming 3 seasons into one.

I doubt the show would spend time on common folks now that faith militants are dead.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I feel like the Glovers were right to not support Snow and they were right to support him after his victory against the Boltons.

Robb Stark did not perform his obligated duty in protecting Glover lands and it was fair for the Glovers to sit things out to put their affairs in order.

It's water under the bridge at this point.

 

[Brakke]

Jon isn't a Stark, and you can make a case that neither was Sansa. Plus, Robb fucked over the Northerners. It's fair for them to have been reticent about jumping in with Rob. Jon's claim wasn't really legit when he made it. Now he proved himself, people are lining up behind him. The "King in the North" scene wasn't about whether or not to accept the banner men, but whether or not the banner men accept Jon. Even after Jon took Winterfell, the Northern lords were more powerful than him.

 

[devilhawk]

Perhaps It's a sexist stance but it looks like the North wants a war-tested king with honor than the rightful heir of Winterfell who never lifted a sword in Sansa.

In the books Jon could be seen as the rightful heir after legitimization. Depends on if trueborn or birth order matters more at that point - something which is not clear.

 

[SporeCrawler]

so the premier is near now... does anybody know if amazon video will have the season like last year? there is still no page up in germany.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I was already pissed about season 5 tomfoolery with Sansa and Little finger and you people have now explained to detail why it was one of the worst writing decisions done in a show with terribly bad writing decisions. It just makes want to punch a wall or something.

And I guess is the same with season 6, how Glover, as amazing as the actor was, how he change heart, and how the Starks kids didn't care he offered no support before. His head should be on a stick, but all logic and world consistency has flown out of the window by now.

The show's writing does not deserve these actors.

yeah i was a bit dissapointed that the whole grand northern conspiracy theory totally didnt happen.

 

[NeoGiff]

Not like this, guys... It's airing in a matter of hours!

Jon isn't a Stark, and you can make a case that neither was Sansa. Plus, Robb fucked over the Northerners. It's fair for them to have been reticent about jumping in with Rob. Jon's claim wasn't really legit when he made it. Now he proved himself, people are lining up behind him. The "King in the North" scene wasn't about whether or not to accept the banner men, but whether or not the banner men accept Jon. Even after Jon took Winterfell, the Northern lords were more powerful than him.

Yep, this is how I feel, too. I really don't have a problem with that scene. It makes sense and is believable within the context of the show, which is all that matters at this point.

Also, reposting this question:

I didn't notice this the first time around, but this nifty little cut has to be inspired by 2001, right?

On that note, Cornballer (or anyone else), are you aware of anyone who writes or podcasts about the show on a technical level?

 

[Iksenpets]

I feel like the Glovers were right to not support Snow and they were right to support him after his victory against the Boltons.

Robb Stark did not perform his obligated duty in protecting Glover lands and it was fair for the Glovers to sit things out to put their affairs in order.

It's water under the bridge at this point.

Didn't the show make it so that the Boltons drove the Ironborn off Glover lands, too? Jon is lucky Glover only remained neutral instead of going all out Bolton, given that. And even then, Glover had a pretty classy apology when he did declare allegiance for Jon.

Now Manderly, he had every reason to sign on with Jon and didn't put of pure cowardice. Show-Manderly deserves all the scorn.

 

[fantomena]

My boddy is ready. But it airs 03:00 in my region.

 

[Aiii]

In the books Jon could be seen as the rightful heir after legitimization. Depends on if trueborn or birth order matters more at that point - something which is not clear.

Same in the show. Ramsey became a Bolton heir.

 

[GoodMorning]

Anybody have a recommended VPN? Currently traveling in Germany and the gf and I are desparate to watch on HBOgo

 

[fantomena]

Anybody have a recommended VPN? Currently traveling in Germany and the gf and I are desparate to watch on HBOgo

Ive heard TunnelBear is good.

 

[Kain]

I'll watch tomorrow night, but I'll probably come here in the morning to get spoiled lol

I'm expecting something shocking for the first episode.

 

[CloudWolf]

I didn't notice this the first time around, but this nifty little cut has to be inspired by 2001, right?

On that note, Cornballer (or anyone else), are you aware of anyone who writes or podcasts about the show on a technical level?

Wait, what the hell happens with that guys' face? It turns from normal to gold.

However, the Lord's of the North picking Jon confirms that people didn't just pick Robb Stark to be the king of the North because he's a Stark, but that he's a Stark who is brave and follows his men into battle.

Perhaps It's a sexist stance but it looks like the North wants a war-tested king with honor than the rightful heir of Winterfell who never lifted a sword in Sansa.

Isn't King of the North kind of an honorary title at this point though? So there is no 'true heir', it's just whoever the Lord of the North deem worthy. That said, we also don't know if Sansa was even the rightful heir to begin with, could be that King of the North is an agnatic title, meaning only men can have it.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

Sons of the Harpy mask.

 

[CloudWolf]

Sons of the Harpy mask.

Must be unfinished CG then, because he goes from clearly not wearing a mask to wearing it while his head is flying.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

How long do you think the "Previously on Game of Thrones" length will it be like 9 minutes and take the episode down to only 50 minutes?

 

[Zolo]

Isn't King of the North kind of an honorary title at this point though? So there is no 'true heir', it's just whoever the Lord of the North deem worthy. That said, we also don't know if Sansa was even the rightful heir to begin with, could be that King of the North is an agnatic title, meaning only men can have it.

It's a title that dates back to when it was an independent kingdom. Sansa would lawfully be the rightful heir, but because of Jon's deeds along with Sansa having spent so much time with the Lannisters, the kingdom would prefer Jon as king. Jon is still (believed to be) a son of Ned, so that's close enough for them to overlook him being a bastard and are basically legitimizing him on their own. He definitely wouldn't be king if he didn't have Stark blood though.

 

[fuzaco]

Must be unfinished CG then, because he goes from clearly not wearing a mask to wearing it while his head is flying.

What? He is clearly wearing it. Just look at the horns.

 

[BossDarkseid]

I'll watch tomorrow night, but I'll probably come here in the morning to get spoiled lol

I'm expecting something shocking for the first episode.

What if Dany and Jon get their incestual love on in the first episode rather than the finale?

 

[NeoGiff]

I miss the days of Euraario theorising.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

Must be unfinished CG then, because he goes from clearly not wearing a mask to wearing it while his head is flying.

I think you're seeing the flesh of the cut neck and that the head flips axes midflight.

 

[Cvie]

there is precedent for both female heir and bastard heir in the stark history/mytholgy at least from the bael the bard tale. The Stark kings daughter was the heir and her bastard with bael became lord.

 

[Zolo]

What if Dany and Jon get their incestual love on in the first episode rather than the finale?

Looked it up in the wiki just to see how it was viewed in Westeros.

Avunculate marriage - between an uncle and a niece or an aunt and a nephew - is considered to be incest in Westeros, and is strictly forbidden.

Wasn't sure since first cousins are considered fine in Westeros.

 

[Ros8105]

Damn, have you guys seen this: Excised dialogue from Stannis’ death on Game of Thrones shows raw emotion

It still hurts.

 

[Real Hero]

shh we pretend show stannis never existed

 

[Cornballer]

Season premiere tonight:

Dragonstone

Spoiler

Jon organizes the defense of the North. Cersei tries to even the odds. Daenerys comes home.

 

[NeoGiff]

Damn, have you guys seen this: Excised dialogue from Stannis’ death on Game of Thrones shows raw emotion

It still hurts.

I hadn't seen that, but reading it now, I prefer the route the aired cut of the episode took. I don't think Stannis would say anything like that aloud. As much as I think they botched Stannis' material, a terse "Go on, do your duty" is a pitch perfect final line from him, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was taken directly from a draft of his death in Winds/Dream.

 

[VenomousCoffee]

So I'm sitting here rewatching the battle at Winterfell because it's amazing, and Jon Snow makes a remark at the end about burying Rickon in the crypt next to Ned. But???

I remember Peter giving Ned's bones to Cat, of course, but I guess I thought that happened too far from Winterfell to get them back (during a war) before Theon took it. Do I have the season 2 timeline mixed up, or did the bones just transport there somehow?

 

[Joni]

So I'm sitting here rewatching the battle at Winterfell because it's amazing, and Jon Snow makes a remark at the end about burying Rickon in the crypt next to Ned. But???

I remember Peter giving Ned's bones to Cat, of course, but I guess I thought that happened too far from Winterfell to get them back (during a war) before Theon took it. Do I have the season 2 timeline mixed up, or did the bones just transport there somehow?

Transportation spells when you're not watching.

 

[duckroll]

Damn, have you guys seen this: Excised dialogue from Stannis' death on Game of Thrones shows raw emotion

It still hurts.

The version that aired is better. The full scripted scene is more character inconsistency for Stannis, playing in favor of audience closure. Bad.

 

[Faddy]

Which is why the Sansa marrying Ramsay plot is without question the dumbest storyline ever created in either the show or books. When "do absolutely nothing" is better, you know you've messed up.

How is doing nothing better? He sits around The Vale as the Boltons secure the North and the Stark name matter less. As time passes Sansa becomes less important. As Stannis said "press my claim or my claim fades"

Once the Boltons are seated in Winterfell with Moat Cailin protecting the neck there is no force from the South who could unseat them.

 

[Sean C]

Littlefinger is one man and too far away to be on Cersei's attention right now. She has whatever that was left of the Tyrells and the new Dorne/Targaryen alliance to deal with.

The point being, he's not counting on the Lannisters to secure his claim to the North.

How is doing nothing better? He sits around The Vale as the Boltons secure the North and the Stark name matter less. As time passes Sansa becomes less important. As Stannis said "press my claim or my claim fades"

Once the Boltons are seated in Winterfell with Moat Cailin protecting the neck there is no force from the South who could unseat them.

We're talking about only a couple of months. That wouldn't matter.

The Vale knights take Moat Cailin effortlessly in Season 6.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Has there be a fight where there isn't a clear rooting interest since Blackwater? I can't think of one offhand. If this season is full of fighting, I hope the battles at least take cues from that episode instead of the good vs. evil of Bastards and Hardhome.

 

[Speevy]

It's funny that Varys described Stannis as the one who would bring dark magic and madness into King's Landing if he won.

 

[Speevy]

How is doing nothing better? He sits around The Vale as the Boltons secure the North and the Stark name matter less. As time passes Sansa becomes less important. As Stannis said "press my claim or my claim fades"

Once the Boltons are seated in Winterfell with Moat Cailin protecting the neck there is no force from the South who could unseat them.

The Boltons secured the north through fear. That was already accomplished as much as it was ever going to be accomplished.

All the Boltons did by marrying Sansa was piss Cersei off, and she threatened to kill them.

It looks to me like with the taking of Riverrun, the Lannisters have begun taking revenge on the various lords of Westeros that have betrayed them. Meanwhile the Starks have been doing the same.

 

[Zolo]

It's funny that Varys described Stannis as the one who would bring dark magic and madness into King's Landing if he won.

Stannis hates the 'game', so he wouldn't like people like Varys.