What can I say, I'm a sucker for punishment.
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It's time to stop hating on Unity
- Thread starter BurritoBushido
- Start date
What can I say, I'm a sucker for punishment.
JamesJoyce1882
Member
I only hate Unity for Vita games. For some weird reason they all take 30-120 seconds to load, even tiny games. Otherwise Unity probably has many more pros than cons.
polyh3dron
Banned
Games run like shit when people use Unity to make them. Grow Home on PS4 is the one that stands out to me.
And the simplistic Super Bomberman R couldnt hold 60FPS on Switch even with the ridiculously simple graphics it had. If the engine was more efficient Id be cool with it, but as it is, if I hear that a game is made with Unity I avoid it like the goddamn plague.
And the simplistic Super Bomberman R couldnt hold 60FPS on Switch even with the ridiculously simple graphics it had. If the engine was more efficient Id be cool with it, but as it is, if I hear that a game is made with Unity I avoid it like the goddamn plague.
It's fucking blowing my mind.
I don't know. Sure, it makes sense, it's an easy to use engine, so people without too much technical knowledge will probably want to use it, and deliver subpar results. That's not the engine's fault, I agree.
However, as I always bring up when people talk about "unfair" consumer reactions: Games are (usually) not free.
If games on Unity consistently deliver subpar performance, whatever the underlying reason is, it's perfectly fair for consumers to be weary of it, and not want to buy a game on Unity unless the initial performance reports are positive.
I don't think that's a problem.
However, as I always bring up when people talk about "unfair" consumer reactions: Games are (usually) not free.
If games on Unity consistently deliver subpar performance, whatever the underlying reason is, it's perfectly fair for consumers to be weary of it, and not want to buy a game on Unity unless the initial performance reports are positive.
I don't think that's a problem.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Indies should just suck it up and eat dry noodles then. God forbid I see a Unity logo despite the game they made being legit good, because wharrgarbl
/s
LordRaptor
Member
Quote from developer in OP : "I really wish people would take the time and educate themselves on things"
GAF hot takes: "NOPE, FUCKING SHIT"
GAF hot takes: "NOPE, FUCKING SHIT"
One ignorant poster doesn't mean we suddenly have a games crisis.
Besides, the games industry likes to brag when it uses engines like UE4 and Decima, so it's only natural that engines would become a part of fanboyism. You can't celebrate engine successes and then call foul when the media covers engine failures.
And anyway, consumers owe nothing to businesses. Unity isn't entitled to have people like it. Maybe they should fix their brand perception?
Besides, the games industry likes to brag when it uses engines like UE4 and Decima, so it's only natural that engines would become a part of fanboyism. You can't celebrate engine successes and then call foul when the media covers engine failures.
And anyway, consumers owe nothing to businesses. Unity isn't entitled to have people like it. Maybe they should fix their brand perception?
tkscz
Member
I can understand that, and that does need criticizing.
Two Pikachus
Member
Seriously, it's like talking to a brick wall.
I'm more of a UE4 guy myself, but Unity is a great engine. I have no qualms about games made in Unity, though it does have room for improvement. But so does UE4.
Kind of the end result of making an engine generic enough to make any type of game.
I wish UE4 had a simple mod implementation workflow that didn't include 'contact Epic and get them to make a specific launcher for you.'
Something something bootstraps.
Tarextherex
Banned
The hate on it is like the epitome of "armchair analyst nerd that is never happy". Also probably comes from the same people whose only pride in life is working on Linux and judges people's worth according to which low level programming languages they know
Not everyone has the time and money to "write their own engine" to then make a game that runs 1080p 60fps on everything with every asset being handmade so their "brainchild" is entirely theirs. Compromises always need to be made. Unity makes it possible for your aspiring gamedev to get into it any time. If the result is bad, they simply didn't put enough effort to it, simple as that. When bigger companies/indies have used it, it offered pretty impressive results, look at how good Cuphead looks.
It's baffling how grown adults stigmatize others for their choice of work tools, this isn't elementary school ffs. Unity is probably the most reliable engine for the public right now, it basically opened the gates to developers just like Apple did with the Appstore. Wannabe cool kids that don't know shit about game development jumping on the bandwagon is just sad. How can this industry be more inclusive when they don't even respect each other for the pettiest differences
Not everyone has the time and money to "write their own engine" to then make a game that runs 1080p 60fps on everything with every asset being handmade so their "brainchild" is entirely theirs. Compromises always need to be made. Unity makes it possible for your aspiring gamedev to get into it any time. If the result is bad, they simply didn't put enough effort to it, simple as that. When bigger companies/indies have used it, it offered pretty impressive results, look at how good Cuphead looks.
It's baffling how grown adults stigmatize others for their choice of work tools, this isn't elementary school ffs. Unity is probably the most reliable engine for the public right now, it basically opened the gates to developers just like Apple did with the Appstore. Wannabe cool kids that don't know shit about game development jumping on the bandwagon is just sad. How can this industry be more inclusive when they don't even respect each other for the pettiest differences
polyh3dron
Banned
Konami is not an indie, theyre just cheapskates.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
So? Was that poster talking about Konami?
Visualante2
Member
developer has such a low opinion of game players that he thinks they are unable to come to their own conclusions. no, of course, it is the illuminati games press that planted the seeds of doubt about unity...
Something is wrong when we have to make a list of console Unity games running well instead of the games that runs bad.
These are the examples that I reference. Engines are a tool. Tools may vary in quality, but results vary drastically based on the developer(s) using it.
tkscz
Member
The problem most Gaffers seem to have is porting these games over to console. It's possible, just takes a lot of work while other engines make it easier to do it. While I can understand the frustration, it's still not a reason to put most of the blame on Unity and not on the Devs.
polyh3dron
Banned
That poster was talking about publishers that use Unity. Konami used Unity for Super Bomberman R. I am talking about Konami.
LordRaptor
Member
Lets take a moment to remember how GAF consensus seems to be that Gamebryo is fucking shit because of Bethesda, even though stuff like Bully, Catherine and Civ IV all ran fine on it.
BurritoBushido
Member
thisisneogaf.gif
I am one, yes. I suppose that suddenly makes Unity performing like shit acceptable.
To be fair, those are not your average developers, Obsidian and the Ori studio are veterans. The average UE4 game just looks and performs better than the average Unity game.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
They patched this btw.
I've been developing on Unity for a good year now and the garbage collection actively pisses me off. Having collection hiccups that block the single thread everything runs on is unacceptable, especially since it's really annoying to avoid creating garbage when even a simple foreach loop creates it.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is not like I won't buy a game because is made on Unity.
But neither should I ignore that there's certain issues that are common in this engine, and how ppl should be aware of them when purchasing games.
But neither should I ignore that there's certain issues that are common in this engine, and how ppl should be aware of them when purchasing games.
thomasmahler
Member
Don't blame the tool, blame the artist 
BurritoBushido
Member
I get the feeling you don't make video games.
KormaChameleon
Member
I thought Bully ran on Renderwear like previous GTA games?
LordRaptor
Member
Don't blame the tool, blame the artist
Or the system architects who served up consoles with weaker single threaded performance that the PS360 had.
e:
the last gen remakes were Gamebryo
They lowered the resolution, and the framerate is still unstable in story mode.
Here is a video on the new C# job system and compiler coming to Unity 2017 soon personally really excited to try this
poodaddy
Member
Didnt Super Bomberman R get a 60fps patch?
Shifty
Member
This right here. In order to optimise a Unity game for performance you have to program in some quite specific and esoteric ways that do not come intuitively.
It can be made to work well with the right knowledge, but developers that possess and excercise that knowledge are thus far the exception rather than the rule.
Handyandy58
Member
Much more interested in hearing actual developers discuss what they think the shortcomings with Unity are, why they still choose to use it, and why the perceived issues with it exist, and what is preventing those from being overcome
than a bunch of people complaining about an engine which has been used to create plenty of both good and bad games.
than a bunch of people complaining about an engine which has been used to create plenty of both good and bad games.
I remember Renderware coming in for similar flak back in the PS2 days. It seemed every bit of half-assed shovelware had a Renderware splash screen and it didn't help that decent/rich publishers could have a licence tier where they didn't show the splash so they never got credit where it was due.
For me, Unity does make me stop and wait for a lot of impressions before I buy a title, but similarly so does being on the Microsoft store or being published by Warner. Once you get burned it's only healthy to want to wait and see if you're getting a dud. It's not exactly Unity's fault, but at the same time their licensing model makes it very easy for awful people to try to cash in and run.
For me, Unity does make me stop and wait for a lot of impressions before I buy a title, but similarly so does being on the Microsoft store or being published by Warner. Once you get burned it's only healthy to want to wait and see if you're getting a dud. It's not exactly Unity's fault, but at the same time their licensing model makes it very easy for awful people to try to cash in and run.
I would like to note that this was true for Unreal Engine 3, Unreal 4 is free to use, and you pay based on your sales. I don't know the exact amounts or how it compares to Unity/Unity Pro, but what you state is false.
If you want source code access to Unity you have to pay a premium, so it's hard to say what engine is the most expensive to use in terms of raw economics.
Regarding the original topic, I don't remember journalists ever dragging a game down for using Unity. Only forum posters or contributor writers. And acting like a game engine doesn't matter is straight up lying, all engines are good and bad at different things and developers working against that is not trivial.
Unity can be a great engine. There are plenty of examples of this. Some teams will perform better using it than Unreal. It also has engine-level weaknesses that, as other have noted, are recurring. That's worth being aware of.
A useless comparison when you consider that a lot of shit games are made on the unity engine.
Grow Home and Grow Up from Ubisoft haven't been mentioned yet but they both run on Unity, have really really simple geometry with some nice lighting and draw distance but are impossible to run smoothly on mid range hardware.
Then there's Subnautica - another game that's not been mentioned that runs like crap for even highest-end hardware. The devs have supposedly been looking into getting source code access for more than half a year now to have more ways to gain some performance. But it seems unlikely anything is going to happen before release.
Then there's Subnautica - another game that's not been mentioned that runs like crap for even highest-end hardware. The devs have supposedly been looking into getting source code access for more than half a year now to have more ways to gain some performance. But it seems unlikely anything is going to happen before release.
There have been some fantastic, perfectly performing Unity games. There have been a number of notably poor-performing Unity games.
What I don't agree with, at all, is this idea that journalists shouldn't talk about engines in their coverage. How does that help consumers? Or to be more realistic, how would it help gaming enthusiasts like the folks here on GAF?
As far as I can tell the only upside would be so that devs could somewhat hide the fact that they are using a given engine for the game they're building that has a bad reputation. If it's Unity we're talking about, what's the best way to fix that reputation? Have more devs put out more great games on it and have consumers know they were built with Unity.
It's not like the engine a given game uses isn't front and center to the experience either. We see it in a splash screen every time at startup. We then see when playing the game how well or poorly it performs, and its perfectly valid to draw some conclusions from that.
I should be able to be blown away by the performance of Doom on id Tech 6 engine on my PS4, and be more optimistic about future FPS' that choose to use it. I should similarly be able to be bummed about performance of Broforce on Unity on PS4.
If anything I feel it should be talked about more, not less. Especially in Unity's case where there are numerous examples of fantastic games built with it.
What I don't agree with, at all, is this idea that journalists shouldn't talk about engines in their coverage. How does that help consumers? Or to be more realistic, how would it help gaming enthusiasts like the folks here on GAF?
As far as I can tell the only upside would be so that devs could somewhat hide the fact that they are using a given engine for the game they're building that has a bad reputation. If it's Unity we're talking about, what's the best way to fix that reputation? Have more devs put out more great games on it and have consumers know they were built with Unity.
It's not like the engine a given game uses isn't front and center to the experience either. We see it in a splash screen every time at startup. We then see when playing the game how well or poorly it performs, and its perfectly valid to draw some conclusions from that.
I should be able to be blown away by the performance of Doom on id Tech 6 engine on my PS4, and be more optimistic about future FPS' that choose to use it. I should similarly be able to be bummed about performance of Broforce on Unity on PS4.
If anything I feel it should be talked about more, not less. Especially in Unity's case where there are numerous examples of fantastic games built with it.