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[Lonely1]

Survival is rubbish rest is fine for a beginner level IMO.

Beginner, perhaps, but not a middle step to get good enough to have a good time online. Characters history modes have no challenge. The history arc, while some times amusing, doesn't let you get familiarized with any single character. The rest feel like a chore. What many of us liked about arcade modes is that they allow us to familiarize with the game and characters while playing the game with the sense of progression that having a clear goal like defeating the big bad and see the cinematic at the end can give.

That's what many of you in the FGC don't understand, we want to play the game, not get into training modes that feel more like work. If we aren't having fun, we just go and play something else, no matter how much Daigo or whoever says about how deep are the combat mechanics once you spent countless of ours learning them. Anyone who defends SFV SP content is simply disconnected of what many of us like in a fighting game. And looking at the sales numbers and reaction to the game, we seem to be the majority too.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Re7 should have been a switch launch title. Easy million plus

Mhxx simultaneous Western launch.
Use synergy of global marketing once.

Sf5 was under baked and single platform.

Just too many bad decisions

Street Fighter V wasn't on a single platform. It was on PC as well. If it didn't do well enough on PS4 and PC, adding Xbox One into the mix was going to do fuck all. Y'all need to stop using SFV's console exclusivity as some kind of "I told you so". It had nothing to do with the reason the game failed to live up to expectations.

 

[MrCarter]

Great post, I couldn't agree more. There are many of us lifelongs who are just about ready to give up on the series until something drastic changes in the methodology being employed, something I never thought I'd feel. I still check on update notes every once in a while, but it's pretty clear that they are simply uninterested in fixing some major things. They're not looking to build on the userbase from here on out; the prize $ will keep the top pros around, which will keep the twitch viewers around and that's enough for them, it seems.

Unfortunately the "top pros" don't even make 5% of what you think they do. Just take a look at EVO - over 2,600 entrants and only 8 took something home. They are better off playing a Moba or CSGo if they want to consistently make some money.

 

[Maxrunner]

If they don't announce some good shit at PSX I am out of playing SFV. And I still play it regularly.

How about some switch games?

 

[Ninjimbo]

SFV is going to be just fine here in the States. In Japan is where I feel the series is in trouble. With no arcade release, the series suffered big time.

 

[HeatBoost]

Y'know, I've always liked Capcom on some level, even in periods where I thought they were dumb, but lately it feels like they just don't know what to do. Which is weird when there are so many things they COULD do. They COULD make sure a fighting game is an appealing prospect before releasing it for once. They COULD make a new DMC game and push that genre forward a bit (Maybe add versus? Arms might be showing that the west is finally developing a taste for arena combat). They COULD make a new, interesting, Dead Rising instead of making a bad Ubisoft game with Dead Rising on the label. They COULD make a new Mega Man that somehow manages to evolve the concept in modern day as much as X did for the SNES. They COULD localize the Ace Prosecutor games or the old timey Ace Attourney series. They COULD do something with Dragon's Dogma. Hell they COULD make a new franchise.

I mean, they made RE7, and despite a somewhat sloggy back half, that game was really good. They still have potential. It's just kinda... not taking shape into anything solid. Here's hoping Monster Hunter World turns out to be a thing (kinda doubt it)

 

[bubumiao]

SFV is going to be just fine here in the States. In Japan is where I feel the series is in trouble. With no arcade release, the series suffered big time.

Where the hell is the arcade version they announced last year? Around the same time SNK announced The King of Fighters XIV Arcade Version (which is now in Japanese arcades).

 

[Ridley327]

Driving Tales series to the ground with shoe-string budget is hardly winning strategy.

Tales has always had pretty low budgets compared to something like Final Fantasy, so that's not something that started this gen with Zesteria. Sure, it's probably more noticeable with how much that game tried to shake up the formula and not having nearly enough money to be able to pull it off, but that's how they've been running that series for the longest time now.

 

[Hours Left]

The people at the top of the company are dragging everyone else down with them. They have a goldmine of interesting and varied IPs, and talented creators that can produce amazing titles, but the execs keep everyone stymied. It's extremely frustrating.

 

[lucebuce12]

The people at the top of the company are dragging everyone else down with them. They have a goldmine of interesting and varied IPs, and talented creators that can produce amazing titles, but the execs keep everyone stymied. It's extremely frustrating.

This.

 

[qcf x2]

Unfortunately the "top pros" don't even make 5% of what you think they do. Just take a look at EVO - over 2,600 entrants and only 8 took something home. They are better off playing a Moba or CSGo if they want to consistently make some money.

That's not realistic, who says they would be able to crack the competitive scene for those games, which are way bigger? The bottom line is SFV offers more payout than any previous fighter, which is actually a really good thing. Props to Capcom for continuing to fund that sector. But would all of the top SFV players still play the game as much if the prize pool was, say, genre-average? It's hypothetical but I really don't think so.

 

[Gunslinger]

Whens Dino Crisis? And RE2 remake? Knowing Capcom though RE2 remake is probably going to a tps like 4,5,6 and that's a shame.

 

[Neonep]

The people at the top of the company are dragging everyone else down with them. They have a goldmine of interesting and varied IPs, and talented creators that can produce amazing titles, but the execs keep everyone stymied. It's extremely frustrating.

This is definitely true. I think the future of Capcom lies in tapping into their dormant IP.

 

[Doctrine Dark]

Where the hell is the arcade version they announced last year? Around the same time SNK announced The King of Fighters XIV Arcade Version (which is now in Japanese arcades).

Seems like it just dropped off the face of the world. I wonder if they're still going to continue with it.

 

[Vibranium]

Capcom need to look into more new IPs and revivals of dead franchises. New character action games/shooters/RPGs/platformers, etc.

 

[Neonep]

Capcom need to look into more new IPs and revivals of dead franchises. New character action games/shooters/RPGs.

Amen to that.

 

[BiggNife]

I just want to add, it seems like a mjaority opinion on GAF sometimes that "Capcom made SFV for the hardcore FGC and not for the casuals" and like, it can't be said enough that even hardcore players don't want it. It failed at every conceivable level and there's no way around that. "The gameplay is fine the launch was just bad" is the other myth I don't understand getting repeated when lots of players will tell you otherwise. Hell, it's pretty commonly accepted that the gameplay got even worse over time thanks to Season 2 even among SFV diehard players.

That sucks too, because a lot fo the people sitting here talking about how bad SFV is actually like and play Street Fighter games. SFV has a lot of characters people like, it has some elements of SF people like, and it's not that hard to get into. But for every time I see Tokido do a cool thing, or even look at some characters and get an urge to go back in, I see the huge myriads of problems with the game and just don't bother.

I'm sure I'm not the only one in this thread talking about SFV being bad that is also checking updates for SFV every now and then in hopes that it gets better to play. That's what kinda sucks about it. Seeing people talk about how SFV is such a great entry to a series that a lot of people respect while it's clearly ruining SF for a lot of people is some pretty asinine shit. Saying it's great when decision makers in the community have to start thinking about the negative impacts that are on the table right now just makes you look stupid.

So here's the question I have.

If hardcore players hate it so much, why are they still playing it? SFV tournaments still get waaaay more entrants than T7, Injustice, GG, etc.

The most common reasoning I see is "because of the money" but also games like Injustice 2 and T7 have sizable prize pools with way less entrants. Dragon made almost the same amount of money from winning IJ2 as Tokido did from winning SFV at Evo this year (~$35k, which really isn't even all that much as far as esports winnings go). If the pros really hated SFV this much, couldn't they switch to play something else? Are they just "in too deep" with SFV that it would take way too long to learn anything else?

And like, to be clear, I'm not saying SFV doesn't have a host of problems. But I've noticed this "everyone hates SFV" argument thrown around a lot but no concrete answer as to why a huge chunk of the FGC still plays it if they hate it that much. I don't buy that it's just because of the money, especially since a lot of people playing SFV probably don't make enough money from tournaments anyway.

 

[bubumiao]

That's not realistic, who says they would be able to crack the competitive scene for those games, which are way bigger? The bottom line is SFV offers more payout than any previous fighter, which is actually a really good thing. Props to Capcom for continuing to fund that sector. But would all of the top SFV players still play the game as much if the prize pool was, say, genre-average? It's hypothetical but I really don't think so.

Injustice 2's prize pool is $600,000 this year as well. I think some of the pros might start chasing that "fight money" (Xian, PR Balrog, etc.).

 

[dragonzdogma]

There's very few capcom games I Don't like, mainly all the western made ones and resident evil 7, I don't mind remakes either.

I hope we get another action re it would be great, also looking forward to dragons dogma remake.

Capcom is an awesome gaming company I don't care what anyone says.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Arms and DMC have nothing in common.

 

[Anne]

That's what many of you in the FGC don't understand, we want to play the game, not get into training modes that feel more like work. If we aren't having fun, we just go and play something else, no matter how much Daigo or whoever says about how deep are the combat mechanics once you spent countless of ours learning them. Anyone who defends SFV SP content is simply disconnected of what many of us like in a fighting game. And looking at the sales numbers and reaction to the game, we seem to be the majority too.

We actually do understand and want good SP content in fighting games. Just because we play seriously doesn't mean we exist on some other planet devoid of empathy for more casual players. Games not giving casual players stuff sucks because it's less people enjoying the game. It's less people even trying to play the game period that might snowball into being competitive. It's less people buying the game and lower sales hurt us too.

It's not like we went up to Capcom and were like "Don't put in arcade mode." There also aren't that many people saying "fuck you, got mine" either. It's pretty well understood that they hurt casuals and us all in the same series of shit decisions.

If hardcore players hate it so much, why are they still playing it? SFV tournaments still get waaaay more entrants than T7, Injustice, GG, etc.

A lot of it has to do with legacy. The FGC is founded on SF and Capcom. Evo having Capcom as the primary game for so long definitely did that. SF4 being the backbone of the FGC revival did that. IF you were a relevant player in SF4, where do you go? You go to SFV. If you want to play a SF game in a tournament, where do you go? SFV. It's basically just one of those things that is so heavily ingrained in the tournaments and culture of the FGC that we haven't escaped since so many thing are obviously still reliant on Capcom players showing up to events. It was the same way when SF4 started to fall apart at the seams in Arcade Edition. Those players just didn't have anywhere to go.

And before you say "they can just play other games" the FGC doesn't really work like that. It's a collection of communities that all do things their own way. Also going from SFV > Tekken is like going from playing League of Legends to playing CSGO. Shit's so different it's unreal.

I guess the idea is that it's just fucking hard to transition away from the SF and Capcom dependency once you're in. It makes this whole situation all the more frustrating. Personal example of this, is that if I wanted to continue to cover fighting games and make real money, I'd have no choice but to get back into SFV. That's how it is at the top. And that just goes all the way down.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

So here's the question I have.

If hardcore players hate it so much, why are they still playing it? SFV tournaments still get waaaay more entrants than T7, Injustice, GG, etc.

The most common reasoning I see is "because of the money" but also games like Injustice 2 and T7 have sizable prize pools with way less entrants. Dragon made almost the same amount of money from winning IJ2 as Tokido did from winning SFV at Evo this year. If the pros really hated SFV this much, couldn't they switch to play something else? Are they just "in too deep" with SFV that it would take way too long to learn anything else?

And like, to be clear, I'm not saying SFV doesn't have a host of problems. But I've noticed this "everyone hates SFV" argument thrown around a lot but no concrete answer as to why a huge chunk of the FGC still plays it if they hate it that much. I don't buy that it's just because of the money, especially since a lot of people playing SFV probably don't make enough money from tournaments anyway.

No one wants a major where a Capcom game isn't the main event. Loyalty and tradition still plays a big part in why these players stick with Capcom. Japanese players aren't gonna switch to a Western fighter like an NRS game or KI.

 

[Ninjimbo]

Where the hell is the arcade version they announced last year? Around the same time SNK announced The King of Fighters XIV Arcade Version (which is now in Japanese arcades).

Maybe it was never being made? Idk. I wish I knew because if they released one, it could give a hint as to what the future of the game is going to be. I can't imagine Capcom releasing an arcade version of the way the game is now so it would have to be a souped up version.

 

[Chindogg]

No one wants a major where a Capcom game isn't the main event. Loyalty and tradition still plays a big part in why these players stick with Capcom. Japanese players aren't gonna switch to a Western fighter like an NRS game or KI.

Pretty much this. I've had a lot of conversations with folks who've basically said the FGC could really grow if we let SF go as the top game for a year or two. Tradition is still something really locked into tournaments. Same reasoning is why Melee and Brood War are still played today as top games.

 

[bubumiao]

Seems like it just dropped off the face of the world. I wonder if they're still going to continue with it.

Wait a year I guess (like the, just last week, finally released Ibuki & Alex costumes).

Capcom need to look into more new IPs and revivals of dead franchises. New character action games/shooters/RPGs/platformers, etc.

What ever happened to Deep Down? Quietly euthanized?

So here's the question I have.

If hardcore players hate it so much, why are they still playing it? SFV tournaments still get waaaay more entrants than T7, Injustice, GG, etc.

The most common reasoning I see is "because of the money" but also games like Injustice 2 and T7 have sizable prize pools with way less entrants. Dragon made almost the same amount of money from winning IJ2 as Tokido did from winning SFV at Evo this year. If the pros really hated SFV this much, couldn't they switch to play something else? Are they just "in too deep" with SFV that it would take way too long to learn anything else?

And like, to be clear, I'm not saying SFV doesn't have a host of problems. But I've noticed this "everyone hates SFV" argument thrown around a lot but no concrete answer as to why a huge chunk of the FGC still plays it if they hate it that much. I don't buy that it's just because of the money, especially since a lot of people playing SFV probably don't make enough money from tournaments anyway.

I think since sponsors pay for pros' flights/accommodations they expect (require) their players to perform well for the games their known for. If they start competing in another game and do well then they can eventually migrate (as I mentioned above some pros are).

I'm sure they'd still compete in both games, but I imagine practicing to be the best in a certain game requires a ton of dedication to that game alone.

Since the tournament season is pretty much year round at this point it makes it harder for a pro player to just switch games altogether without seeing a negative impact to performance in their aformentioned game.

 

[HeatBoost]

Arms and DMC have nothing in common.

Right because DMC doesn't have a versus mode...

...yet

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Have Capcom even talked about when they would release that DLC campaign of RE7?

 

[Pompadour]

Where the hell is the arcade version they announced last year? Around the same time SNK announced The King of Fighters XIV Arcade Version (which is now in Japanese arcades).

They never formally announced an arcade version of SFV, they just announced something about SFV maybe being ran on PCs in an arcade in the future. Capcom doesn't have an arcade presence so moving SFV into arcades would probably require help from another company like Namco.

 

[cordy]

We actually do understand and want good SP content in fighting games. Just because we play seriously doesn't mean we exist on some other planet devoid of empathy for more casual players. Games not giving casual players stuff sucks because it's less people enjoying the game. It's less people even trying to play the game period that might snowball into being competitive. It's less people buying the game and lower sales hurt us too.

It's not like we went up to Capcom and were like "Don't put in arcade mode." There also aren't that many people saying "fuck you, got mine" either. It's pretty well understood that they hurt casuals and us all in the same series of shit decisions.



A lot of it has to do with legacy. The FGC is founded on SF and Capcom. Evo having Capcom as the primary game for so long definitely did that. SF4 being the backbone of the FGC revival did that. IF you were a relevant player in SF4, where do you go? You go to SFV. If you want to play a SF game in a tournament, where do you go? SFV. It's basically just one of those things that is so heavily ingrained in the tournaments and culture of the FGC that we haven't escaped since so many thing are obviously still reliant on Capcom players showing up to events. It was the same way when SF4 started to fall apart at the seams in Arcade Edition. Those players just didn't have anywhere to go.

And before you say "they can just play other games" the FGC doesn't really work like that. It's a collection of communities that all do things their own way. Also going from SFV > Tekken is like going from playing League of Legends to playing CSGO. Shit's so different it's unreal.

I guess the idea is that it's just fucking hard to transition away from the SF and Capcom dependency once you're in. It makes this whole situation all the more frustrating. Personal example of this, is that if I wanted to continue to cover fighting games and make real money, I'd have no choice but to get back into SFV. That's how it is at the top. And that just goes all the way down.

No one wants a major where a Capcom game isn't the main event. Loyalty and tradition still plays a big part in why these players stick with Capcom. Japanese players aren't gonna switch to a Western fighter like an NRS game or KI.

Pretty much this. I've had a lot of conversations with folks who've basically said the FGC could really grow if we let SF go as the top game for a year or two. Tradition is still something really locked into tournaments. Same reasoning is why Melee and Brood War are still played today as top games.

Pretty much the same with wrestling and WWE. There's NJPW and ROH but WWE is the big dog and most casuals will stop watching wrestling entirely if they don't have the WWE.

 

[ZoddGutts]

They really drop the ball with the Dragon's Dogma ip. That game took off on PC/Steam. I can easily see a sequel being a multi million seller. Instead they went with a online only game that won't even come out to the west. Dammit Capcom.

 

[BiggNife]

They really drop the ball with the Dragon's Dogma ip. That game took off on PC/Steam. I can easily see a sequel being a multi million seller. Instead they went with a online only game that won't even come out to the west. Dammit Capcom.

It's so weird that Capcom said they would consider DDO in the west if DD PC sold, and then it sells super well and they just...don't do it. I wonder what happened there, maybe it cost more to localize than they thought.

 

[bubumiao]

They never formally announced an arcade version of SFV, they just announced something about SFV maybe being ran on PCs in an arcade in the future.

You're right. That's what we're talking about though.

 

[Marvel]

There's very few capcom games I Don't like, mainly all the western made ones and resident evil 7, I don't mind remakes either.

I hope we get another action re it would be great, also looking forward to dragons dogma remake.

Capcom is an awesome gaming company I don't care what anyone says.

Couldn't agree more.

Likewise.

 

[bubumiao]

It's so weird that Capcom said they would consider DDO in the west if DD PC sold, and then it sells super well and they just...don't do it. I wonder what happened there, maybe it cost more to localize than they thought.

🤔😧😕

 

[Chindogg]

🤔😧😕

They're not dead. Their guts have just been put into SFV :v

 

[-hadouken]

SFV doesn't even have an industry standard ARCADE MODE, we are still waiting!

Bizarre omission at launch, tho utterly baffling that they're still dragging feet on this. No new content is needed - arcade mode could be put together in a week. Completely out of touch with reality.

 

[Lord Malachite]

By the way, where is that free RE7 DLC?

It was bumped to "Summer 2017", which is July - September in terms of the quarter. So probably in September, with the final paid DLC in December.

 

[Jawmuncher]

At least Darkstalkers get comics and versus games. Better than absolutely nothing.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. What I'm saying is I talked to a lot of people on and off the record about this game. Sanke Eyez, Tokido, and James are all people I've talked to out of who you have mentioned and I heard differently from what you're saying.

~
People who have been in the deepest parts of shit with this thing are all telling you something, and then your defense is "Daigo, Haitani, and Tokido all say they like it more than SF4." I'm sorry dude, but that's some weak ass shit compared to the real experiences that have happened in the community regarding the title.

 

[BiggNife]

🤔😧😕

Darkstalkers was fucked by Capcom deciding whether or not to revive it based on a $15 rerelease of two old games with almost zero marketing.

For what it's worth I bought Resurrection so I can't be blamed for this ;_;

 

[Vice]

That's not realistic, who says they would be able to crack the competitive scene for those games, which are way bigger? The bottom line is SFV offers more payout than any previous fighter, which is actually a really good thing. Props to Capcom for continuing to fund that sector. But would all of the top SFV players still play the game as much if the prize pool was, say, genre-average? It's hypothetical but I really don't think so.

Most likely, outside of Punk pretty much all the top players have been competing since at least the IV era when second place wouldn't event cover the plane ticket.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

They're not dead. Their guts have just been put into SFV :v

Maybe they should do a "test" for Darkstalkers and switch it up on a console no one would consider. Eh? Eeehhh?

 

[vg260]

Survival is rubbish rest is fine for a beginner level IMO.

Survival is/was absolutely NOT fine for a beginner level. That was a huge part of the problem.

If you're looking for a reason why there may be so much lingering hostility toward the game, perhaps you shouldn't just dismiss it so flippantly, and try to understand why people were so irritated.

Casuals want to beat up on the computer and unlock stuff. On top of the lack of arcade mode, an already glaring omission, the survival mode design was incredibly hostile toward casual players.

You had to play it to unlock colors. First off, survival is/was never a substitute for casual players. The arcade mode format always gave a chance to continue or keeping fighting a character if you lose. It wasn't nearly as all-or-nothing and demoralizing when you lose.

So for survival, you don't have the same round format, and while playing through the 10 round survival difficulty was OK and doable for casuals, it only gave you ONE color. Then you had to play through 30 and 50 rounds just to unlock the rest and that was per character and per costume, even costumes they paid $4 for, which was 3-4x more expensive than the last game. You had massive difficulty spikes for casual at the end of a 25+ string of matches where you can't lose once. It's was mind-boggingly asinine design, and just completely out of touch, and insulting to the casual audience. It was just pure insanity in game design.

I can totally understand people for feeling slighted or insulted if they are long-time casual players, and now hold a grudge.
It was essentially saying to casual players, we don't care about you, so no arcade mode, also F you.
They really haven't done much to make up for it either for most of these players. What little they did to make up for it for these players was too little too late.

 

[bubumiao]

At least Darkstalkers get comics and versus games. Better than absolutely nothing.

I bought it. 😔

I don't think this proves anything.

 

[Mik317]

there is fuck all Capcom can do to salvage SFV in the eyes of "casuals".

Anything would be too late at this point. Those burned by it really should just let it go and support the various other games that do. They fucked up, Most of us all know this, but what is done is done...I don't know what else people want others to say at this point on that topic.

 

[TheDinoman]

Maybe they should do a "test" for Darkstalkers and switch it up on a console no one would consider. Eh? Eeehhh?

Darkstalkers Resurrection was their test for a new Darkstalkers and it didn't go well, unfortunately.

 

[bubumiao]

Darkstalkers Resurrection was their test for a new Darkstalkers and it didn't go well, unfortunately.

They gave us the "Darkstalkers aren't dead" trailer then released a compilation of the games in HD and that was the test? That's pathetic. They're good at one thing - Pissing off their fans.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

lol some people are still in the denial phase I see.

I'm not saying that's what will happen, I'm saying it's what Capcom needs to happen.

 

[Mik317]

They gave us the "Darkstalkers aren't dead" trailer then released a compilation of the games in HD and that was the test? That's pathetic. They're good at one thing - Pissing off their fans.

Ono has apparently wanted to do another Darkstalkers for a while but couldn;t get it greenlit, so in order to show that people actually wanted it, they release a compilation and then it bombed...which shows that perhaps it wasn;t as wanted after all....and then it didn't get greenlit. That's pretty cut and dry, no? Did you expect them to go ahead with it anyway and then have a more expensive project fail too? Like I'm not seeing how that is pissing off fans really.

 

[BiggNife]

I don't think this proves anything.

Pretty sure this was posted as a joke. It's pretty obvious corporate pandering.