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[Ucchedavāda]

70k for 20 years work, no?

And supposedly Cleve has spent $210k of his own money during those 20 years:

It would be interesting to learn exactly how many iterations of the Grimoire project Cleve started and then re-started over the past 15 years because some minutae or the other would not conform to the ideal standards of his lofty vision -- wasn't there even a working Beta at one point?

There were at least three occasions where I looked at it and said - this is sh*te, banal, boring - I want everything redone from scratch.

I redid the world maps (220+) at least three times.

All 2D engine artwork was done over three times. Two times I paid out of my own pocket for it.

All portraits were done three times, all three paid for.

Monsters/characters redone twice. Additional monster artwork (yet to incorporate all of it) paid for in 2002.

All NPC scripts rewritten at least four times in three different scripting languages. Original was a byte coded language in one gigantic file.

Game editors have been through three incarnations - Visual DOS, Visual Basic, C++ Builder.

All item pics redone at least three times.

Music and SEFX redone twice.

A lot of money on all this stuff. A lot. I have written personally checks in excess over $210,000 for Grimoire since 1994. At one point I was working three separate full-time jobs as a contractor to support Grimoire. All three clients believed I was working solely on their project. At one stage I was working for the military, the public sector and a private sector company and channeling a lot of the money to payments for subcontractors working on Grimoire.

Madness. At least I realize that now. Full blown extraordinary Neanderthal derangement. Makes caves at Lascaux look like an exercise in speed painting.

Google cache

 

[Wok]

At one point I was working three separate full-time jobs as a contractor to support Grimoire. All three clients believed I was working solely on their project. At one stage I was working for the military, the public sector and a private sector company and channeling a lot of the money to payments for subcontractors working on Grimoire.

What he says is that he could have released Grimoire a long time ago, then released a Grimoire remake, and what we have now would be a Grimoire HD remake.

What's the point of redoing a game from scratch 3 times?

 

[TemplaerDude]

This guy is a raving lunatic, I need to have this in my library before he goes nuclear.

 

[plenilune]

UI is horrible. Can't make sense of anything without the manual.

 

[jimboton]

Fascinating stuff. I was never interested in dungeon crawling genre, but this game's case makes me want to try it out. I'll wait for more patches and manual to come out.

Is that the only game offering insight into legit crazy person's mind? Because I'm 100% sure Cleve's not sane

Well right now there's also Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice I guess. Personally I'd rather play Grimoire. It is the real deal.

 

[Soul of the Beast]

As old as the PlayStation

 

[Sad Affleck]

Cleve is a real crackerjack programmer dontchaknow.

Robert Sirotek: *laughs*

 

[Uthred]

While I want to try this, this guy is...I mean, here, he posts that he believes that Stephen Hawking died and has been replaced with a double that works as a government shill...

http://vault-co.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/rofl-fake-hawkings-gibberish.html

Guy is off his rocker.

And that matters why? The game should stand or fall on its own merits, never got people who let the author of a work affect their enjoyment of said work.

 

[Purple Cheeto]

I guess this means there is hope for a Star Citizen release some day.

Well right now there's also Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice I guess. Personally I'd rather play Grimoire. It is the real deal.

There's also an RPG for PS4/PC made by one crazy Canuck.

 

[More_Badass]

And that matters why? The game should stand or fall on its own merits, never got people who let the author of a work affect their enjoyment of said work.

1) People might not want to support said person
2) An individual's values, beliefs, etc, tends to influence their work, sometimes subtly, sometimes blatantly, and thus can't be separated on some occasions

 

[mbpm1]

And supposedly Cleve has spent $210k of his own money during those 20 years:


Google cache

That's rough for him

 

[Ucchedavāda]

I don't even know what to say to this:

Something Has Messed Up Grimoire So Badly I Can't Even Understand How It Is Possible

It has lost the ability with simple ANSI C file commands to overwrite a file or delete an existing one. I have never seen anything like it in thirty years of programming, never, on an application anywhere. "NO, DON'T OVERWRITE THIS FILE" is not a windows message. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing?

The sample savegames were uploaded by people pirating the software. That was a pirated version they uploaded. There were pirates asking for support on this forum. I don't know if they have introduced a very ugly virus into the program. I trusted them when I had a look at their samples but discovered later these are all pirated copies they were ASKING FOR SUPPORT for on this forum.

These are simple file commands to create, write and erase files. I took out ALL file commands to get permissions for user app files and rolled BACK to what was there before. There is nothing to these commands, no special windows tokens for users, no file specs on files. I deleted my target directory and started in a new one. The problem is still there. Grimoire can't even simply create files, erase them and write new ones. I have never seen something so messed up.

This is why we can't have nice things on this planet.

I am running my AV software with new definitions and trying some new things with file permissions, I have to work carefully and see if I can isolate the problem. These aren't fancy Windows file writes we are talking about. These are vanilla C commands working for 20 years, never had a problem of any kind.

I am really sorry about this and working constantly on the problem. It's a shame because the game was just now reaching a nice stable version before this nightmare. Now it has basically been sabotaged in Steam ratings and is giving newcomers a terrible impression of the game.

Warning anybody who posts to this forum for support for a pirated product you got off Dropbox or Megashare that you will be banned permanently, reported to Steam and it is likely they will remove your account for pirating products you got off Steam.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/650670/discussions/0/1471967615864687597/


EDIT: For anyone wondering, the "NO, DON'T OVERWRITE THIS FILE" text is from the game's own save-game dialogue.


Also, apparently Cleve is planning on adding DRM to the game after the sale ends:

A lot of pirates have been tampering with the RPG100.LIB and encouraging others to do same, you've probably noticed they break the checksum on the library. They better learn to edit that file because after the sale ends the DRM will be coming down like the hammer of God. I wanted the pirates to get a look at it so they will know what they are missing when the game gets a lot harder to crack and keep current. Those winnarz got a glimpse of heaven but in a few days it's the last time they will play Grimoire for free.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/650670/discussions/0/1471967615862858084/

 

[Sinatar]

Cleve trying to add DRM, that can't possibly go wrong.

 

[uncredited male]

Cleve trying to add DRM, that can't possibly go wrong.

I would like to apologize to those non-Neanderthals whose hard drives were unintentionally reformatted by the game's anti-piracy checker. The bug causing it was a childishly simple fix, this will be the last time that happens.

 

[SephLuis]

Cleve trying to add DRM, that can't possibly go wrong.

He might lock himself out of development and avoid making more "stable" builds.

 

[Ucchedavāda]

I would like to apologize to those non-Neanderthals whose hard drives were unintentionally reformatted by the game's anti-piracy checker. The bug causing it was a childishly simple fix, this will be the last time that happens.

Yeah, the same thought struck me.
I'll be booting up a virtual machine if I am ever going to be playing this version of the game.

 

[UncleSporky]

Yeah this just further reinforces my decision to play in 1.2.0.5...if I do continue playing at all. It's kinda nuts, for all the problems everyone is having, the huge outcry...all I did was copy the 1.2.0.5 version folder in my Steam library and paste it a few times, renaming it "Backup." Zero problems (other than general UI issues and minor bugs). In fact I don't think Steam's built-in DRM is even applying to it, it's such a simple application and I'm not running it from within Steam or any folder Steam would know about. But I got it legit. I think he just didn't configure its release correctly. I don't know how Steam's DRM works or what you have to do to your game to get it set up properly, but it feels like he tossed an unprotected exe into the wild.

It sounds like he's blaming his current issues on pirates who inserted viruses into saves they sent him to look at...? That seems ludicrous. There's no way people are out to get him to that extent. Whatever method he thinks he has to detect whether a game is pirated, I would guess that ALL saves are going to be flagged that way. I mean if he's gonna accuse his own userbase of piracy with every save file he looks at, he's going to find himself without anyone willing to send him saves.

What he needs to do is find a clean computer, make a new Steam account, and pretend he's some random user buying and playing his own game for the first time.

I guess from all this we can insinuate he's not using any sort of version control software like GitHub. Otherwise he could just pull a pre-save-file-diagnosis version on a clean computer.

 

[mbpm1]

But how did they even do that to the game
That sounds wild

 

[Labadal]

Should have done it from the start. I hope the game gets stable. Fans of the genre seem to enjoy it.

"Very likely I will start using beta branches soon, especially if we can just establish a stable level game relatively again as a benchmark."

 

[Elaugaufein]

Yeah this just further reinforces my decision to play in 1.2.0.5...if I do continue playing at all. It's kinda nuts, for all the problems everyone is having, the huge outcry...all I did was copy the 1.2.0.5 version folder in my Steam library and paste it a few times, renaming it "Backup." Zero problems (other than general UI issues and minor bugs). In fact I don't think Steam's built-in DRM is even applying to it, it's such a simple application and I'm not running it from within Steam or any folder Steam would know about. But I got it legit. I think he just didn't configure its release correctly. I don't know how Steam's DRM works or what you have to do to your game to get it set up properly, but it feels like he tossed an unprotected exe into the wild.

It sounds like he's blaming his current issues on pirates who inserted viruses into saves they sent him to look at...? That seems ludicrous. There's no way people are out to get him to that extent. Whatever method he thinks he has to detect whether a game is pirated, I would guess that ALL saves are going to be flagged that way. I mean if he's gonna accuse his own userbase of piracy with every save file he looks at, he's going to find himself without anyone willing to send him saves.

What he needs to do is find a clean computer, make a new Steam account, and pretend he's some random user buying and playing his own game for the first time.

I guess from all this we can insinuate he's not using any sort of version control software like GitHub. Otherwise he could just pull a pre-save-file-diagnosis version on a clean computer.

Anyone who's reverse engineered his game to such an extent they can put a virus in a save file in the time since release would have to be very good indeed (and about equally nuts).

 

[Sad Affleck]

Good news. Apparently the latest patch has resolved the save game issues. The only saves that can't be loaded are the .5 ones, eveything else works.

 

[LegitMcfalls]

This guy is like indie game Trump. Holy shit lol

 

[Alexlf]

Definitely picking this up tonight, if only to own a piece of internet history. I remember hearing about this back when I started high school for goodness sakes. (I think it was this game at least, it's been so long!)

 

[FlutterPuffs]

And that matters why? The game should stand or fall on its own merits, never got people who let the author of a work affect their enjoyment of said work.

Well... as someone who isn't white buying a game from this guy who probably thinks I'm a degenerate waste of a human being due to my skin color and race is probably not the smartest thing to do.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

Looks like it should have come out in the mid 90s. What was the holdup?

 

[Adree]

Looks like it should have come out in the mid 90s. What was the holdup?

He was busy moving to Australia and building his fallout shelter? Too busy being an insane racist?

 

[Drillary Clinton]

He was busy moving to Australia and building his fallout shelter? Too busy being an insane racist?

I mean I know absolutely nothing about this game or the developer

 

[SubjectNineteen]

I've had this game in my Steam wish list for months now, and I have no idea how I even learned of it. It must have been recommended to me in the 'More Like This' window that appears on some games' Store Pages.

I was unaware of Grimore's reputation and almost comically long development cycle. More so, I was unaware of Cleve's...shall we say, 'eccentricities.' Okay...I won't mince words: The guy's a racist conspiracy theorist. I won't make any excuses for him. Still, I bought the game before reading this topic, and despite my moral qualms about supporting someone like him, I decided I'll give the game a fair go.

Firstly, I feel someone needs to play the game with a critical eye, specifically to see if Cleve's views have seeped into the game itself. I know some are already not buying the game out of principle (which is commendable), but there may be some who may do so, regardless, and end up being steeped in the developer's views, should they be present in the game itself.

I haven't played the game yet, so I don't know if any of Cleve's beliefs are manifested in the game, but if they are, I want to point that out, so that players aren't unwittingly bombarded with offensive tripe. Many believe in distancing the "art from the artist," so to speak, but if the artist's views are permeated through said art, then I feel that it calls the art's entire quality, nature, and purpose into question. I'm not saying that's the case here, as, again, I haven't played Grimoire yet, but I think it it would be beneficial to play the game and look for potential runoff from the developer's beliefs, that potential buyers may better know what they're getting into.

This is sort of a milkshake duck situation, though unlike most people or things that end up being milkshake ducks, Cleve's views and reputation have apparently been well known and widely discussed in certain circles for about two decades, long before the game released. Additionally, the game isn't widely known or hugely popular on the internet, at least at present. Still, I feel the analogy applies. In some ways, it's almost the opposite situation The Last Night ended up in, with the developer's views being discovered only after the game was announced and became popular online; that was a proper milkshake duck.

Additionally, I have always loved dungeon crawlers, and this one's decidedly retro sensibilities appeal to me. It may be fun. It's just a shame the creator is the way he is. But, at least in knowing his views, I can look for them in the game and hopefully help others in pointing them out, should they be present.

Oh, and I think 'Heralds of the Winded Exemplar' sounds like an astounding name for the most pretentious progressive rock band of all time. They could go on tour with a band named after Square-Enix's in development Switch RPG, 'Project Octopath Traveler.' They could open for Van Der Graaf Generator, who released their newest album, Do Not Disturb, last year. It'd be perfect!

*Sings* "Still waiting for my saviour, storms tear me limb from limb; my fingers feel like seaweed... I'm so far out I'm too far in." Sorry. I love that song ('A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers,' by Van Der Graaf Generator.) Talking progressive rock reminded me of it. I digress. Hugely. That's all for now.

 

[mbpm1]

It's be nice to know. Hopefully he hasn't put any "rothstein" enemies or w/e in the game

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

How does one even enjoy the game after reading this thread, I wouldn't be able to separate the game from the ridiculous developer.

 

[Absoludacrous]

I mean I know absolutely nothing about this game or the developer

If only there was a thread you could read that had details...

 

[Erin S Kittens]

Oh, and I think 'Heralds of the Winded Exemplar' sounds like an astounding name for the most pretentious progressive rock band of all time. They could go on tour with a band named after Square-Enix's in development Switch RPG, 'Project Octopath Traveler.' They could open for Van Der Graaf Generator, who released their newest album, Do Not Disturb, last year. It'd be perfect!

*Sings* "Still waiting for my saviour, storms tear me limb from limb; my fingers feel like seaweed... I'm so far out I'm too far in." Sorry. I love that song ('A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers,' by Van Der Graaf Generator.) Talking progressive rock reminded me of it. I digress. Hugely. That's all for now.

The first room in Wizardry 4: House With No Door

 

[Labadal]

 

[drangleic tourism]

Good news. Apparently the latest patch has resolved the save game issues. The only saves that can't be loaded are the .5 ones, eveything else works.

Is it safe to buy the game yet? It still seems like he is tinkering with stuff. I've been playing through Wiz7 a bit and would kill for something like it with some modern QOL improvements but this game still seems like a risk.

And yea, I've got Grimrock and Starcrawlers etc. Great games.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

If only there was a thread you could read that had details...

Do you get paid to be an abrasive asshole?

 

[Labadal]

Do you get paid to be an abrasive asshole?

He's right, though.

 

[longlivegaming]

Is it safe to buy the game yet? It still seems like he is tinkering with stuff. I've been playing through Wiz7 a bit and would kill for something like it with some modern QOL improvements but this game still seems like a risk.

And yea, I've got Grimrock and Starcrawlers etc. Great games.

I would wait until you hear reports of people actually completing the game. Could take quite awhile when considering long it supposedly is.

 

[UncleSporky]

Firstly, I feel someone needs to play the game with a critical eye, specifically to see if Cleve's views have seeped into the game itself. I know some are already not buying the game out of principle (which is commendable), but there may be some who may do so, regardless, and end up being steeped in the developer's views, should they be present in the game itself.

I haven't played the game yet, so I don't know if any of Cleve's beliefs are manifested in the game, but if they are, I want to point that out, so that players aren't unwittingly bombarded with offensive tripe. Many believe in distancing the "art from the artist," so to speak, but if the artist's views are permeated through said art, then I feel that it calls the art's entire quality, nature, and purpose into question. I'm not saying that's the case here, as, again, I haven't played Grimoire yet, but I think it it would be beneficial to play the game and look for potential runoff from the developer's beliefs, that potential buyers may better know what they're getting into.

Thus far I haven't noticed anything that would feel out of place in any mid-90s RPG, or generic fantasy setting. Nothing has turned my stomach or given me pause on the story, writing or art.

Apparently males and females of each race have slightly different stats as was a common trope in old RPGs and some modern games to this day. Men slightly stronger, women more dexterous and sociable. Negligible effect on the characters' performance though.

No nudity or sex or references to it of any kind in the early hours. I suspect Cleve would be against this because in his stories about working on the canceled Wizardry game, he used to rant and complain about how they were including sex orgies and weird penis monsters, which people thought was Cleve being Cleve for a long time but it turns out he was right. I guess there's a difference between the extremely bizarre and more run-of-the-mill stuff, but it doesn't sound like he's the kind of person to put titillating content in his game.

A female fairy is in servitude to a magical museum huckster for reasons unknown. She sends travelers to him and he gives people a discount for mentioning her. However she is shockingly powerful and easy to recruit to your own team. Visiting him afterwards, he yells at her for leaving her post but seems ineffectual at getting her to actually do anything...I think you can keep her on the team as long as you like, effectively saving her from her situation.

Everything feels straight out of Wizardry 6 and 7 but without the dubious content (NSFW pixels) so far that those games included.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

He's right, though.

In terms of the dude being a POS? Yeah, sure. I was wondering why it actually took 20+ years to come out and I'm not really seeing a link between those. Honestly, the dude's behavior doesn't even warrant the attention he wants.

 

[Labadal]

In terms of the dude being a POS? Yeah, sure. I was wondering why it actually took 20+ years to come out and I'm not really seeing a link between those. Honestly, the dude's behavior doesn't even warrant the attention he wants.

No, Absoludacrous' right in the sense that you should read the thread instead of asking this:

I mean I know absolutely nothing about this game or the developer

Then you call him an asshole. Further, it seems you DO know something about the developer because you're calling him a piece of shit. None of us know why it took him 20 years to develop the game. That is a question only Cleve can answer.

You don't like the developer. We get it, but if you don't have anything to say about the actual game, your presence in the thread seems a bit unnecessary, does it not?

 

[Drillary Clinton]

No, Absoludacrous' right in the sense that you should read the thread instead of asking this:


Then you call him an asshole. Further, it seems you DO know something about the developer because you're calling him a piece of shit. None of us know why it took him 20 years to develop the game. That is a question only Cleve can answer.

You don't like the developer. We get it, but if you don't have anything to say about the actual game, your presence in the thread seems a bit unnecessary, does it not?

Lol, dude I literally asked asked what the hold up with the game was. That's something I asked about the game. If no one knows, that's fine. First post in response to my question was about the lead developer's behaviors. Pretty unrelated to my question and I could already infer that from the thread.

 

[Sad Affleck]

Is it safe to buy the game yet? It still seems like he is tinkering with stuff. I've been playing through Wiz7 a bit and would kill for something like it with some modern QOL improvements but this game still seems like a risk.

It's hard to tell right now. The latest version seems stable and Cleve said he will use beta branches for new patches so that nothing like this happens again. If you still have a backlog to clear then I'd wait a bit, otherwise go right ahead and buy it. At this point most of the game's issues are about game balance (overpowered classes and spells, the player gets too much gold very early, that kind of stuff) so it is at a playable state.

 

[The_Super_Inframan]

"Grimoire, the RPG 20 years in the making, is a crazily tough nut to crack"

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/08/09/grimoire-the-rpg-20-years-in-the-making-is-a-crazily-tough-nut-to-crack/

RPS Article

 

[Wok]

A female fairy is in servitude to a magical museum huckster for reasons unknown. She sends travelers to him and he gives people a discount for mentioning her. However she is shockingly powerful and easy to recruit to your own team. Visiting him afterwards, he yells at her for leaving her post but seems ineffectual at getting her to actually do anything...I think you can keep her on the team as long as you like, effectively saving her from her situation.

Yes, I love the fact that, for people who decided to start in the noob-friendly area, the first character which can be recruited is an almighty female (incredible stats and spells). I did not know her story since I have not played long enough, but the story you told makes it even better.

I suspect Cleve would be against this because in his stories about working on the canceled Wizardry game, he used to rant and complain about how they were including sex orgies and weird penis monsters, which people thought was Cleve being Cleve for a long time but it turns out he was right.

 

[Armoured Priest]

Cleve trying to add DRM, that can't possibly go wrong.

I wonder if it will be implemented when the supposed manual comes out.

*remembers old-school "DRM" that had you use one of those wheels, or find a specific word or phrase in the manual to continue on in the game*

 

[Arulan]

I wonder if it will be implemented when the supposed manual comes out.

*remembers old-school "DRM" that had you use one of those wheels, or find a specific word or phrase in the manual to continue on in the game*

At least they were sometimes put to good use for other purposes.

 

[Sad Affleck]

If you are still on the fence you need to act now or lose the launch discount:

http://steamcommunity.com/games/650670/announcements/detail/1444946433190772663

Thanks to all the people who took a leap of faith and bought Grimoire the first week without even a manual yet! In 12 hours the door is going to close on the discount and Grimoire will be DRM protected next week as further improvements appear in the game including countless new enhancements! Act now or be prepared to wait until early spring 2075 A.D. for the next sale on Grimoire at that price! Grimoire has effortlessly sold 3600+ copies on word-of-mouth alone, no attempt by me at any marketing or review harvesting, no keys to reviewers and no public speaking by me anywhere outside of this page! Purely promoted by the grass roots on firsthand player recommendations. I fully expect to sell 360,000 copies before we are through and by that time Grimoire's currently frozen map will have more than doubled in content. If you get in early now at the discount you could be enjoying the ever expanding world of Hyperborea for many years to come! MY policy during the first week on Grimoire for twenty years would be no hawking and no pandering, I would let game players decide whether or not it was a good game purely on it's own merits.

It's important to point out that all mainstream gaming magazines and publications have been firmly against Grimoire with the kind of ferocity that was last seen during Donald Trump's Presidential campaign. There has been a virtual shutout of all mentions and where they have deigned to review the game it has been through clenched teeth and often they seem to have been more interested in talking about me than the game itself. I take pride in the fact I have this kind of opposition, everybody should be so lucky. Grimoire is winning without their help in any way. It's only going to get worse for them because the game is selling itself - it doesn't need them at all. Read what Jonathan Swift said about this subject, you'll know why it is a great honor. The forces of decline are like the grains of sand in the ocean but incline will still beat them.

 

[UncleSporky]

If you are still on the fence you need to act now or lose the launch discount:

http://steamcommunity.com/games/650670/announcements/detail/1444946433190772663

It's important to point out that all mainstream gaming magazines and publications have been firmly against Grimoire with the kind of ferocity that was last seen during Donald Trump's Presidential campaign. There has been a virtual shutout of all mentions and where they have deigned to review the game it has been through clenched teeth and often they seem to have been more interested in talking about me than the game itself.

?????????????????????

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...n-the-making-is-a-crazily-tough-nut-to-crack/

RPS is major. Honestly they're one of the few sites I could see writing about this game.
It's not getting reviewed by the likes of IGN and Gamespot because it's a random indie PC-only thing that's been full of so many crippling issues since launch that you don't WANT them reviewing it. And gaming magazines? As if those are still relevant at all?

Plus

no attempt by me at any marketing or review harvesting, no keys to reviewers

This is why the're not reviewing it. Not because they're opposing you, but because you didn't do the thing every other game does, from the worst to the best.

 

[Wok]

And gaming magazines? As if those are still relevant at all?

Gaming magazines are still a thing, although they try to go online in parallel as the paper version:
https://www.canardpc.com/

 

[Sad Affleck]

And gaming magazines? As if those are still relevant at all?

I think Cleve is still thinking in 1997 terms when he started developing Grimoire and magazines were all the rage.