FlashbladeGAF
Member
nah... the quality varies with each season, but South Park is still good.
That being said this season maybe an off season going off of this first episode.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
South Park is not subversive
- Thread starter Malyse
- Start date
nah... the quality varies with each season, but South Park is still good.
That being said this season maybe an off season going off of this first episode.
ldcommando
Banned
Kain-Nosgoth
Member
his bros were, but not him, he was truly the good guy in the season
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Some Rick and Morty fans have propped up the show as being "smarter" to almost memetic levels. It's annoying.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
I thought they only managed to achieve a representative writers room recently, no?
I remember Dan talking about it last year or so. Though I only recall him saying they had hit 50/50 gender equality.
In 1997, the episode "Big Gay Al's Boat Ride" received positive reviews and a GLAAD award for its message on homosexuality.
From wikipedia:
They were against it because of the gross out humour and cursing children. They thought it was a bad influence.
David H Wong
Banned
We're now in the "backlash to the backlash" stage.
perfectchaos007
Member
lol I guess you have never watched the first few seasons.
Arkage
Banned
The more you use the word, the more social justice internet points you win.
I knew South Park was going to piss a lot of leftists off with their social justice Mr. PC season. But that kind of reminds me of how Chef was fine with SP making fun of everything until they made fun of scientology, then it got personal and SP was terrible and not funny and offensive and missing the mark. This is basically the same approach being used here.
p.s. bojack is better
AbsolutBro
Member
I've only talked about it on GAF and with people IRL, so I have no idea what you're talking about.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
I would probably put it a bit differently.
PC was a red herring at first, but is eventually revealed to be the true hero of the season while his detractors (Jimmy and Kyle) both get played for chumps by the real enemy.
But that was one of the funniest episodes to that point.
March of the Crabs
Member
I love South Park. It's a very funny comedy show. But why does a funny cartoon seem to get so many more think-pieces from wannabe intellectuals than any other TV show or movie?
I guess there was some. But the early episode were absolutely not on the level we see today with keeping up with current events. No where near as far as social commentary. It's very much in your face these days and there are barely any episodes that give it a rest. The early episodes were just not like the social commentary in the 2000s no matter how many people in here are in denial about it.
Well that's the thing, if you only talk about the show in gaf and with your friends (ie, sensible people) you havent gotten to see the annoying "im so smart, because this show is for smart people and rick is my role model!" types.
Yup, Harmon said something akin to learning durin his time at community that 50/50 gender ratio in the writers room was a must.
It makes no sense compering both. Rick and Morty are mostly about higher concepts, like the insignificance of our life in comparison to the infinity of space and possibilities. While South Park mostly focus on current events and commenting on them.
What doesn't mean, that one is better then the other.
But i didn't watch South Park in ages and there were always the criticism of them, not taking a clear stand and always try to find a place in the middle.
And_Gignac
Member
South Park stopped pretending they werent diet conservatives long ago.
No one should care honestly. Sadly, there a whole army of privileged males who have adopted their "vision" of politics to be a reflection of South Park commentary.
No one should care honestly. Sadly, there a whole army of privileged males who have adopted their "vision" of politics to be a reflection of South Park commentary.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
Ah apologies, I've only heard it in the last year or so on this forum. I'm not American so maybe it was a thing I missed? Anyway the point remains the same it's a silly phrase itended to be used as a smear tactic against the show/people who enjoy the show.
As for the politics of Matt and Trey? They always seemed quite liberal to me with their viewpoints but even so it's possible to be 95% liberal and believe in stupid things like global warming is a scam or whatever.
The idea that everything must fall into one of two binary "sides" is really silly, also the notion that a satricial comedy show is supposed to be 100% lock step with your personal/politcal beleiefs I also find to be an arrgravating idea. I'm not even some huge SP fan, tons of seasons I haven't even watched but sometimes I can laugh my ass off through an episode or appreciate what they are going for without having to share their opinion or moral "message" at the end of the show.
Granted I'm not pointing all of this post at you or trying to imply that you think these things so apologies if it seems that way or if this post comes across as agressive in any way. I was talking more in a general sense from the opinions I've read here critisizing the show.
People shoving food up their asses and shitting out their mouths was pretty funny, the way they tied it to atheism and then spent the last few minutes defending Catholicism, can fuck off.
Hades Hotgun
Banned
I'd say "leftists" tend to get South Park's humor a lot better than most other groups.
For instance, there is really no comparison between South Park's take down of Scientology and the introduction of a flawed, but ultimately noble and bad ass PC Principal.
Pop-O-Matic
Banned
Because being a comedy doesn't automatically make something immune from criticism?
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
This is pretty off the mark for an Outline article. A big thing with them is highlighting controversial or transgressive ideas and opinions, but South Park has had this rebuttal aimed at them for some time.
It's a warmed over take and frankly one that isn't particularly illuminating or compelling.
It's a warmed over take and frankly one that isn't particularly illuminating or compelling.
Fallout-NL
Member
To be fair, the ending of that pickles episode was pretty damn amazing.
Yeah, I've been having very mixed feelings about their views on a lot of things for a long time now.
But I still get a good laugh out stuff like Mr Garrison fucking Canadian Trump to death.
elrechazado
Banned
You didn't read or understand the comment you quoted, apparently.
Do you not see the difference between those early episodes and current South Park as far as social commentary?
hanspampel
Banned
South Park will forever be the best socio-critocal show ever made.
And Season 21 Episode 1 was incredible good
And Season 21 Episode 1 was incredible good
You see, this is the problem, this is why the article exists.
People catch one episode of south park making fun of what they believe and sudenly south park is "Alt right" (ie, the enemy).
That episode had the message of "Fuck guys, if religion wants to survive in the modern world it has to get their shit together and evolve with the world", they also slightly made fun of atheist, but, man, south park's bread and butter is mocking religion mercilessly, south park makes a couple of episodes also making fun of atheists and suddenly it's "fuck this right wing shit?"
That's the part that seems disingenuous for me, South park has a lot to be criticised for but most people go full "they made fun of me, they're the Republican/conservatives/alt right/the enemy now!"
That isn't what you said. And the episode I linked is FILLED with social commentary.
Audioboxer
Member
I think I summed it up okay on the first page. A "tldr" is a long running show, takes swipes at everything because Randy/Cartman are always terrible (so wide scope for angering people) and a lot of the bloggers and intellectuals these days are just mirroring their parents from growing up. Some people think getting older means losing touch with the "child inside" when it comes to being okay laughing and taking life less seriously from time to time. When you grow up everything has to be literal and sterilised to protect and prevent.
You can still save the world of politics and activism whilst kicking back for 20 minutes a week to laugh at South Park. If you don't find it funny anymore or never have that is one thing, but long expositions about how South Park is the cause of x, y and z really is just mirroring the 90s and 00s concern trolling from parents, priests and Jack Thompsons. I'll say it again, being confident in your own beliefs whilst simultaneously being able to have a laugh, self-deprecate and take life less seriously from time to time is the foundation for strong mental health. There is room for seriousness and humour in one's life. Nearly anyone living successfully in this world will tell you, you HAVE to be able to laugh/switch off from time to time or you'll "drive yourself into an early grave". If not literally a grave, a mental grave of ill health and probably depression/anxiety and so on. Laughter and fleeting moments of release from life are the anti-depressants which aren't pills you pop. Take shit like South Park on the chin and for what it is, a cartoon filled with terrible characters you laugh at, not with.
Ordinaryundone
Member
Most of them don't have the chops to actually decode and discuss something that doesn't lay all its points out in the open, the way South Park does. Like this article, which has nothing to say beyond "South Park thinks it's woke but it isn't! White people!"
Arkage
Banned
Certainly, South Park is more liberal than conservative on the vast majority of issues, so their humor in general is aimed towards leftists. I only saw a few eps of the PC Principal season, so maybe I missed out on how his PC characteristics saved the day somehow, but from reading the outrage over SP's supposed "both sides" mentality (another term used way to much, up there with woke) it seemed like SP was pushing the buttons of PC partisans pretty hard in particular, to the point of them giving up the show altogether.
Sure, I was wrong in saying it had no social commentary, but does it really make a difference in this discussion? There was far less social commentary in the early episodes. It was barely the aim of the show.
The original discussion is about why the right disliked in the 90s and why the left dislikes it now. Back in the 90s, the show was completely different to what it is now. The right took issue because it was an edgy show with children swearing. The left takes issue with it because it often has very poor social commentary.
Dude Abides
Banned
But it was actually intended as a compliment to describe young conservatives who shared the shows glibertarian eye-rolling-at-liberals sensibility but weren't uptight about profanity and sex stuff like traditional conservative.
South Park goes after Hollywood liberals and has also attacked Al Gore and Michael Moore pretty hard. It's hard to think of a conservative political figure they've gone after the same way. It's more of a sensibility than a coherent ideological but I don't see how you can deny they lean a bit conservative.
The movie was all social commentary.
PC principal seems like one of those characters who was introduced and was an asshole of a character only to become more normal later on after Matt & Trey decided they wanted to keep him around. He tends to actually play more of the 'sane man' role now and tends to be pretty reasonable.
Its all fun and games until it hits too close to home.
Hmm... Yeah, South Park falls flat on social commentary to racial issues, but one does not go into South Park expecting a scathing thesis on systematic racism or similar issues. I once grew tired of their all too safe approach, but then I realized... It's just an entertaining glance over at best.
That said, it's a big notch above Family Guy episodes (like the one where Jerome didn't want Chris to date his daughter or the recent "Peter shoots Cleveland's son" episode) which come off as more nauseating since this is from a creator who refused to have Cree Summer voice Meg due to her race but allowed Cleveland to be voiced by Mike Henry for many seasons and a spin off as a black character.
I don't expect South Park to "enlighten me", and I only give it a pass because hey, this is a show where Randy's shat broke world records. If you take the satire seriously, maybe that says a lot about you? (glares in direction of blogger)
That said, it's a big notch above Family Guy episodes (like the one where Jerome didn't want Chris to date his daughter or the recent "Peter shoots Cleveland's son" episode) which come off as more nauseating since this is from a creator who refused to have Cree Summer voice Meg due to her race but allowed Cleveland to be voiced by Mike Henry for many seasons and a spin off as a black character.
I don't expect South Park to "enlighten me", and I only give it a pass because hey, this is a show where Randy's shat broke world records. If you take the satire seriously, maybe that says a lot about you? (glares in direction of blogger)
But see Rick and Morty wouldn't do that (if R&M is being brought into the discussion). Because Harmon as a writer has a clear stance. There's an intelligence and coherence to who it targets for comedy and satire.
Matt & Trey can't mock everybody, sit on the fence, then one week take arms against once group, and the next week the opposite group, and claim to have any intelligent or coherent ideology behind what they're doing. In fact it makes what they're doing shitty and irresponsible. Which is why they say stuff like "people shouldn't get their political opinions from adult cartoon shows" which is disingenuous at best, if not in regards to the responsibility of the show they produce, then of it's quality.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
Oh really? I had no idea about that. So it was some kind of self-branded term that came from young conservatives? Again I've only heard it on this forum in the past year in the context I've mentioned so I had no idea about the origins/history of the term and it's original meaning.
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
I really like Rick and Morty but it's anything but nuanced. Characters routinely break down situations and their interpersonal dynamics. Most of their flaws are very clearly telegraphed.
I don't get it. Why is it irresponsible?
Some people like to inflate how smart the shows they love are, while in reality, it's a lot less smart than they think it is. I've seen people talk about Rick and Morty like it's the smartest show on the planet.
Like I've said in my previous post, I enjoy the show, but we shouldn't read into it too much.
bigjeffery
Member
I think T+M's politics are garbage, but I still find the show funny.